General Football Chat #3

Started by Dixkot, September 16, 2012, 18:43:31 pm

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Slim

Quote from: dom on June 03, 2021, 14:15:58 pmNo surprise at the booing to the Black Lives Matter taking the Knee stance last night prior to England's game against Austria.  The only time I attended an England international the predominant chant was "No Surrender to the IRA".  It was over 20 years ago but I imagine the type of person who sings that type of song still attends.  I would also imagine that anyone who enjoys singing that song while watching the national team play wouldn't have much truck with the aims of the BLM movement

Most sane people don't really want to defund the police or dismantle capitalism, to be fair. I was delighted to see that. Performative victim culture on the part of millionaire footballers was never going to go down well in a working class town like Middlesbrough. People have every right to make a peaceful protest against divisiveness.

Stupid, stupid mistake on the part of the British football establishment to grovel to the BLM idiots. It has done nothing for the cause of race relations except to set it back a few years.

What sort of person is it that sings anti-terrorist songs by the way? Whatever sort it is, I believe I'm in that category myself.

Bisto

Not only do we have Slim, the Thatcher worshipper, Europhobe, Little Englander, Scourge of the Labour Party and wannabe Tory Cabinet Minister, we also have Slim, the would be Football Hooligan....Alan B'stard is alive and well.
No good deed goes unpunished!

No amount of anxiety can change the future. No amount of regret can change the past.

dom

June 03, 2021, 16:59:42 pm #1172 Last Edit: June 03, 2021, 17:01:26 pm by dom
Quote from: Slim on June 03, 2021, 14:51:20 pmMost sane people don't really want to defund the police or dismantle capitalism, to be fair. I was delighted to see that. Performative victim culture on the part of millionaire footballers was never going to go down well in a working class town like Middlesbrough. People have every right to make a peaceful protest against divisiveness.

Stupid, stupid mistake on the part of the British football establishment to grovel to the BLM idiots. It has done nothing for the cause of race relations except to set it back a few years.

What sort of person is it that sings anti-terrorist songs by the way? Whatever sort it is, I believe I'm in that category myself.
Id see (with some generalising) that people who boo BLM to be largely racist in nature. They probably think that too much leeway has been given to the black  and ethnic population and somehow feel that it's the  White British people who are being persecuted IN THEIR OWN COUNTRY.
 
What relevance does such a song have to play in an England Georgia match?  It has nothing to do with a football match.

If you were to draw a venn diagram with the 2 groups I imagine it would more or less be a single circle.

Im hoping you wouldn't be part of either group Slim, but I'm beginning to have my doubts
When the truth offends we lie and lie until we can longer remember it is even there. But it is still there. Every lie we tell incurs a debt to the truth. Sooner or later, that debt is repaid

Matt2112

Regarding a group of people as a monolithic bloc is part of the problem.  Describing those who boo as simply racist without further scrutiny or interrogation doesn't just take the conversation nowhere, but backwards.
The keys to happiness

dom

Quote from: Matt2112 on June 03, 2021, 17:37:26 pmRegarding a group of people as a monolithic bloc is part of the problem.  Describing those who boo as simply racist without further scrutiny or interrogation doesn't just take the conversation nowhere, but backwards.
Agreed it was a generalisation. A bit like a vote for brexit doesnt mean you're a racist, but if you are a racist you almost certainly voted for Brexit.
When the truth offends we lie and lie until we can longer remember it is even there. But it is still there. Every lie we tell incurs a debt to the truth. Sooner or later, that debt is repaid

Slim

Quote from: dom on June 03, 2021, 16:59:42 pmId see (with some generalising) that people who boo BLM to be largely racist in nature. They probably think that too much leeway has been given to the black  and ethnic population and somehow feel that it's the  White British people who are being persecuted IN THEIR OWN COUNTRY.
 
What relevance does such a song have to play in an England Georgia match?  It has nothing to do with a football match.

If you were to draw a venn diagram with the 2 groups I imagine it would more or less be a single circle.

Im hoping you wouldn't be part of either group Slim, but I'm beginning to have my doubts

It's definitely you, Dom. No-one should be afraid to oppose defunding the police, or decrying terrorism, for fear of being called a racist or a hooligan by those who lose the argument as soon as they play those tired old cards.

Your point about the relevance of the fight against republican terror to a football match is a rather interesting one, given the context of this conversation.

There existed a perfectly serviceable movement established to fight and defeat racism in football, called Kick It Out. I've personally never had a word of criticism for it and I don't remember hearing of anyone at a football match booing it.

BLM on the other hand, has no relevance whatever to a game of football in Middlesbrough. It was inspired ostensibly by lethal law enforcement conduct in the United States before expanding to encompass idiot left-wing causes like dismantling the state and police.

Even taking the toxic politics out of the picture, taking the knee is still an imported, awkward virtue-signalling gesture which has done exactly nothing in the direction of diminishing racism and people are entitled to take a peaceful stand against it.

DavidL

Quote from: dom on June 03, 2021, 18:06:07 pmAgreed it was a generalisation. A bit like a vote for brexit doesnt mean you're a racist, but if you are a racist you almost certainly voted for Brexit.
A bit like a vote for Labour doesn't mean you're an anti-semite, but if you're an anti-semite you almost certainly voted for Labour?

dom

June 03, 2021, 22:12:39 pm #1177 Last Edit: June 03, 2021, 22:16:31 pm by dom
Quote from: DavidL on June 03, 2021, 22:11:37 pmA bit like a vote for Labour doesn't mean you're an anti-semite, but if you're an anti-semite you almost certainly voted for Labour?
Don't think that works to be honest!

You might be on safer ground with pro Palestinian though
When the truth offends we lie and lie until we can longer remember it is even there. But it is still there. Every lie we tell incurs a debt to the truth. Sooner or later, that debt is repaid

dom

Ok then so BLM, no surrender and poppies all removed from football terraces and pitches. Deal?
When the truth offends we lie and lie until we can longer remember it is even there. But it is still there. Every lie we tell incurs a debt to the truth. Sooner or later, that debt is repaid

Matt2112

June 03, 2021, 23:47:53 pm #1179 Last Edit: June 03, 2021, 23:52:15 pm by Matt2112
Quote from: dom on June 03, 2021, 22:15:24 pmOk then so BLM, no surrender and poppies all removed from football terraces and pitches. Deal?
A long-standing national tradition of solemn remembrance of a country's war dead is fraught with bitter controversy amongst football fans?

News to me. :)
The keys to happiness

dom

Quote from: Matt2112 on June 03, 2021, 23:47:53 pmA long-standing national tradition of solemn remembrance of a country's war dead is fraught with bitter controversy amongst football fans?

News to me. :)
It certainly does when someone has the bare faced audacity to not wear one
When the truth offends we lie and lie until we can longer remember it is even there. But it is still there. Every lie we tell incurs a debt to the truth. Sooner or later, that debt is repaid

Matt2112

Quote from: dom on June 04, 2021, 00:37:29 amIt certainly does when someone has the bare faced audacity to not wear one
Yes, of course that's true, and that right should be respected, as the reasons for non-compliance clearly vary by case. These are very occasional flare-ups in controversy rather than an issue where it's baked in and "fraught" with it though, I would say.
The keys to happiness

Slim

The Telegraph has a useful guide to countries taking part in the Euros and their attitude to "taking the knee":

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/euro-2021/2021/06/07/divided-nationsthe-24-teams-euros-attitudes-taking-knee-gesture/

dom

Makes a change from the usual form guide and will provide some interest to the pre match build up. Wonder if you can bet on it?
When the truth offends we lie and lie until we can longer remember it is even there. But it is still there. Every lie we tell incurs a debt to the truth. Sooner or later, that debt is repaid

Slim

You can bet on most things these days, including that I'll be hoping that Croatia and the Czech Republic make it out of the group stage. You can't get that particular one on Bet 365 at the moment though, I admit.