This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!

Started by rufus_the_dawg, February 28, 2020, 20:23:30 pm

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Slim

Quote from: Matt2112 on April 07, 2021, 16:42:52 pmFurther to the news about Moderna being rolled out today, I learnt that its shelf life after thawing is about 30 days compared to Pfizer's 4 days (admittedly the storage temperature for Moderna is lower, but still...).

I think it's the other way round - the Pfizer stuff has to be kept at -70C. Moderna only -20C and Oxford / AZ "fridge temperature" whatever that is, but above 0C.

But the shelf life news is very encouraging.

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/11/17/935563377/why-does-pfizers-covid-19-vaccine-need-to-be-kept-colder-than-antarctica
Lies run sprints, but the truth runs marathons.

DavidL

April 08, 2021, 00:34:36 am #2206 Last Edit: April 08, 2021, 00:36:11 am by DavidL
Quote from: Slim on April 08, 2021, 00:24:54 amI think it's the other way round - the Pfizer stuff has to be kept at -70C. Moderna only -20C and Oxford / AZ "fridge temperature" whatever that is, but above 0C.

5C - too cold for tomatoes......and Guinness IMHO

dom

Quote from: Slim on April 08, 2021, 00:08:23 amThat's not proven, and even on the thin evidence provided so far, you're statistically more likely to die in a road accident in the next three months than to succumb to a fatal blood clot from a vaccination. Almost a non-story I think. But in any case other vaccines are coming onstream soon. Furthermore millions of people have already had a first dose and as I understand it, there's no reason at all to suppose that a second one would be problematic if the first one wasn't.
I meant that the French public have an issue with it. Not that surprising with the confusion and mixed messaging.

Today's announcement won't help. Luckily there are other vaccines to take the strain. Moderna has already been deployed for a while and the Johnson Johnson version is to follow.
When the truth offends we lie and lie until we can longer remember it is even there. But it is still there. Every lie we tell incurs a debt to the truth. Sooner or later, that debt is repaid

DavidL

Quote from: dom on April 08, 2021, 00:40:14 amI meant that the French public have an issue with it. Not that surprising with the confusion and mixed messaging.

Today's announcement won't help. Luckily there are other vaccines to take the strain. Moderna has already been deployed for a while and the Johnson Johnson version is to follow.
I knew what you meant, dom  ;) 

Trust in AZ has taken a bit of a battering for the reasons you state.

I'd be interested to know the percentage of those that have had AZ that have experienced low platelet counts. It seems to me that CVST is only one symptom of that disorder. We won't know, of course, unless every recipient is tested. Some would argue that's a moot point unless a serious side-effect results but are there longer-term implications? I'm sure the regulators have it covered

Matt2112

Quote from: Slim on April 08, 2021, 00:24:54 amI think it's the other way round - the Pfizer stuff has to be kept at -70C. Moderna only -20C and Oxford / AZ "fridge temperature" whatever that is, but above 0C.

But the shelf life news is very encouraging.

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/11/17/935563377/why-does-pfizers-covid-19-vaccine-need-to-be-kept-colder-than-antarctica
Yes, I meant higher and stated lower, like an over-excited contestant on Play Your Cards Right.
The keys to happiness

Matt2112

April 08, 2021, 11:34:59 am #2210 Last Edit: April 08, 2021, 11:40:48 am by Matt2112
Encouraging... :)

Greece and the UK Touch Base on Tourism Issues

QuoteA number of issues relating to tourism were discussed during a meeting in Athens on Tuesday between Greek Tourism Minister Harry Theoharis and the UK Under-Secretary of State, Minister for European Neighbourhood and the Americas, Wendy Morton.

And, James and David, you'll like this: :)

QuoteHighlighting the importance of Britain as one of Greece's most important incoming tourism markets, Theoharis suggested for Greece and the United Kingdom to explore the possibility of entering a post-Brexit tourism agreement.
The keys to happiness

Matt2112

Aegean islands to become first Covid-free areas of Greece

My emphasis:

Quote from: undefinedIn one of the biggest operational challenges of modern times, authorities have vowed at least 69 islands will be fully vaccinated by the end of April.
Quote from: undefined"We have so many smaller isles," said Marios Themistocleous, the health ministry official overseeing the programme. "Precisely because they're so difficult to get supplies to, we decided to vaccinate entire populations in one go with the aim that when they begin receiving tourists, permanent residents are fully vaccinated and protected."
The keys to happiness

DavidL

'fully vaccinated' but not 'fully protected', of course  ;)

Matt2112

Quote from: DavidL on April 08, 2021, 12:46:27 pm'fully vaccinated' but not 'fully protected', of course  ;)

As near as dammit against the worst outcomes.  Alternatively, there's always the option to self-isolate at home indefinitely.  :D

Did you see their numbers last summer, with no vaccine in sight?  Factor in the climate and we'll be good to go. Yamas!!  8)
The keys to happiness

dom

Greece did a brilliant job last Spring. Closed down so quickly while Johnson dithered
When the truth offends we lie and lie until we can longer remember it is even there. But it is still there. Every lie we tell incurs a debt to the truth. Sooner or later, that debt is repaid

Slim

The Prime Minister did not "dither". That's one of the many shallow misconceptions promoted by the anti-Conservative media and disaffected opposition, floating on the surface of the popular narrative like so much trash and intended to obscure the deeper truth underneath it - which in this case is that the government timed its measures decisively and carefully, informed by the best available science.

Hopefully that was tongue-in-cheek, you do yourself no favours by pretending to consume such cheap rubbish.
Lies run sprints, but the truth runs marathons.

Slim

Quote from: Matt2112 on April 08, 2021, 11:34:59 amEncouraging... :)

Greece and the UK Touch Base on Tourism Issues

And, James and David, you'll like this: :)


Actually I'm not that keen - the virus seems to be spreading a bit more in Greece than it is here at the moment. Granted this is deaths not cases but even so, it must be a similar picture.

Lies run sprints, but the truth runs marathons.

dom

Quote from: Slim on April 08, 2021, 15:43:19 pmThe Prime Minister did not "dither". That's one of the many shallow misconceptions promoted by the anti-Conservative media and disaffected opposition, floating on the surface of the popular narrative like so much trash and intended to obscure the deeper truth underneath it - which in this case is that the government timed its measures decisively and carefully, informed by the best available science.

Hopefully that was tongue-in-cheek, you do yourself no favours by pretending to consume such cheap rubbish.
He dithered. Look it up in the dictionary and Johnson will be there beaming back at you.

He allowed Cheltenham, rock concerts and football matches to go ahead when they should have been cancelled.

He allowed pubs to stay open but recommended people not visit them. Dither and obfuscation!

He told everyone he had gone round a hospital with Covid shaking everyone's hand.

Dithering, obfuscation and idiocy!
When the truth offends we lie and lie until we can longer remember it is even there. But it is still there. Every lie we tell incurs a debt to the truth. Sooner or later, that debt is repaid

Slim

Just completely wrong, Dom. You may think that the Prime Minister was unwise to delay the measures that were introduced. I wouldn't agree with you at all, but you're entitled to your view. But I can state categorically, as a simple statement of fact and without fear of credible contradiction, that he did not "dither". That would imply a measure of indecisiveness, where in reality the timing was careful, measured, deliberate and based on the advice of world class scientists. It's unfortunate, I feel, that you're choosing to state assertions like "they should have been cancelled" as a matter of fact when they are an uninformed opinion.

By the way can you provide a source for the claim that he "allowed pubs to stay open but recommended people not visit them"? I recall that the PM announced, on a Friday evening, that pubs would close at midnight and that people should desist from visiting them that evening. In that sense you're technically right if that's what you're referring to but he would have attracted huge criticism had he insisted that pubs close at zero minutes' notice while he was speaking, and I doubt the accompanying legislation could have supported that.

I'm sorry to say that the last three words of your post describe the rest of it beautifully.
Lies run sprints, but the truth runs marathons.

Slim

Nice piece here by Matthew Parris, no longer a member of my party sadly and prone to being a bit Pete Tong about things on occasion.

But here he's got it right, I feel.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/vaccine-passports-are-a-ticket-to-freedom

You have to register to read the piece but here are a few highlights:

QuoteIn principle I'm in favour of vaccination passports, and don't understand how -- again in principle -- anyone could be against the theory. One can have severe doubts about whether our NHS, pubs, theatres, sports grounds and restaurants would actually be capable of operating such a scheme, yet at the same time think it would be an excellent thing if they were. To me it seems not just sensible and fair but obvious that access to jobs or spaces where there is an enhanced risk of viral transmission might be restricted to people who could demonstrate a high degree of immunity.

There exists a scratchy marriage of convenience between those on the right who really do believe in personal freedom, and those who believe in low taxes and a small state. There's convenient overlap between the two, of course. Some right-wingers, opposing measures that extend the apparatus and the reach of the state, profess to do so on 'libertarian' grounds because this sounds more principled than acknowledging their underlying motivation: dislike of the cost.

The passport proposal aims to liberate. None of its opponents (so far as I know) is suggesting that we open up cinemas and pubs to all comers now, regardless of the threat to public health. So what does their opposition amount to? It can surely only mean keeping these places closed to everybody, including to people who would present minimal risk, until nobody at all presented a serious risk. What is libertarian about that? In what way does it advance freedom or personal responsibility? Most of the libertarians I know would argue that men who want to join men-only, or women women-only, clubs should be free to 'discriminate' in this way. Were government to propose to abolish a pub landlord's right to refuse admission, most libertarians would swing behind the publican, not the government. Yet when it comes to theatregoers who might be pleased that individuals who would be a risk to themselves or others were excluded, this somehow offends 'libertarian' principles. How so?

Oppose freeing up spaces only for those who are safe there, by all means. But don't call this libertarian. We who seek ways to open up are the freedom lovers.
Lies run sprints, but the truth runs marathons.