General Election 2019

Started by DavidL, October 30, 2019, 07:58:46 am

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döm

After the last election this one is very difficult to call. How well the 2 sides (brexit/non brexit)  combine will be crucial. Will Farage not contest in areas where Boris Johnson may lose to a remain candidate. Will Greens, Lib Dems and Labour play a strategic battle to defeat this incompetent Government and steer the country away from a disastrous brexit.
You can check out any time you like but you can never leave!

Slim

It's a real shame that the DUP couldn't come aboard with the deal, because the Tories might need their assistance to form a combined majority. And I think they probably would provide that, but of course only at the expense of a fundamental change to the agreement.

Which would mean back to the drawing board again, months more of the treacherous self-serving lice in parliament, albeit hopefully fewer in number, trying to undermine their own country again and colluding with the EU.

Scumson has already said she won't put Corbyn in Number 10, a bit like Clegg with Gordon Brown nine years ago. Would Labour change their leader for the sake of an alliance of convenience with the illiberals? I rather doubt it. A hung parliament could prove an impossible knot to untie for either of the main parties.

Interesting to consider the bigger picture - do we need a different voting system? Do politicians have to try to work harder to find common ground?

DavidL

Quote from: zoony on November 02, 2019, 12:12:21 pmA conservative majority would see us leave the EU, that isn't under question, but unfortunately it isn't a proper Brexit, and they know that. Probably the lesser of 2 evils though, because Labour and the liberals just don't want any kind of Brexit.
nail hit firmly on the head

Richard_2112

Quote from: pxr5 on November 01, 2019, 16:15:48 pmI read this the other day and thought it apt.

Does socialism work? A classroom experiment.

http://www.thecommentator.com/article/646/does_socialism_work_a_classroom_experiment

An economics professor at a local college made a statement that he had never failed a single student before, but had recently failed an entire class. That class had insisted that Obama's socialism worked and that no one would be poor and no one would be rich; a great equalizer.

The professor then said, "OK, we will have an experiment in this class on Obama's plan". All grades will be averaged and everyone will receive the same grade so no one will fail and no one will receive an A (substituting grades for dollars - something closer to home and more readily understood by all).

After the first test, the grades were averaged and everyone got a B. The students who studied hard were upset and the students who studied little were happy.

As the second test rolled around, the students who studied little had studied even less and the ones who studied hard decided they wanted a free ride too so they studied little.

The second test average was a D! No one was happy.

When the third test rolled around, the average was an F.

As the tests proceeded, the scores never increased as bickering, blame and name-calling all resulted in hard feelings and no one would study for the benefit of anyone else.

To their great surprise, all failed and the professor told them that socialism would also ultimately fail because when the reward is great, the effort to succeed is great, but when government takes all the reward away, no one will try or want to succeed.

It could not be any simpler than that.
Great analogy. Shame it doesn't describe how socialism works. It's how communism works. And I know a few people are a bit slow on the upkeep about this one so I'll spell it out anyway: Socialism. And. Communism. Are. Not. The. Same. Thing.
Over thinking, over analyzing separates the body from the mind. Withering my intuition, missing opportunities and I must feed my will to feel my moment drawing way outside the lines.

Slim

Certainly it's a bit of a moveable feast, the definition of "socialism". What's yours then, Richard?

rufus the dawg

Socialism is capitalism with a more regulation.

Page 2 of this thread is disgusting.

Slim

Quote from: rufus the dawg on November 03, 2019, 00:02:12 amSocialism is capitalism with a more regulation.

That's an interesting definition of socialism, but I don't agree with that one. I can't think of a capitalist society that isn't already regulated, so by your own definition every capitalist society / economy, even the United States, can be transformed into a socialist one by pushing the regulatory slider up a bit.

I think there's a fundamental qualitative difference in philosophy, not just a quantitative one. The key one for me is whether business and industry is controlled by the state.

But it's a complicated picture because there's a difference between a socialist government and a socialist society. I doubt that even a hard-left Labour government with a solid working majority could viably embark on a programme of nationalising every business of any substantial size, they just wouldn't get away with it.

I quite like Jeremy Corbyn's helpful contribution toward an understanding of the term "socialism", as presented in the following clips.



"[Chavez] showed us that there is a different and better way of doing things", he said. "It's called socialism".

It's quite striking I think that his remarks there are similar in content and tone to those he made in the 2017 General Election, and indeed in this one.

So if you'd like to do your bit for "fighting back against neo-liberal austerity and economics" and you'd like to see the UK transformed into a shining example of socialism like Venezuela, get out there and vote for him on December 12th.

By the way if you find some or all of the posts on page 2 disgusting, by all means have a go at refuting some of them. Otherwise it looks as though you can't, which is certainly my own suspicion.

döm

No society is completely capitalist or completely socialist. They're all on a sliding scale. To one side (let's call it the right) the Government has less control and more power is left to the free market; the other side (the left) the Government is more involved.

A key function of any legislature is to get the balance right. To protect society from the excesses of capitalism (greed) but not to such an extent that the drive for innovation and creativity is diminished.

Any well run society that is as wealthy as the UK should not need food banks. Agreed that education may form a part of this.
You can check out any time you like but you can never leave!

DavidL

Quote from: döm on November 03, 2019, 12:36:26 pmAny well run society that is as wealthy as the UK should not need food banks. 
We don't.

rufus the dawg


DavidL


Nïckslïkk2112

People need to learn how to make porridge. Use local shops, local markets and how to make stews from offcuts and cabbage.
Legend in my own Mind


zoony

Quote from: Nïckslïkk2112 on November 03, 2019, 21:27:19 pmPeople need to learn how to make porridge. Use local shops, local markets and how to make stews from offcuts and cabbage.
And as Slim said previously, don't spend all your money on fags, booze and gambling.

Slim


Slim

The Lies of Labour front-bencher Richard Burgon