General Election 2019

Started by DavidL, October 30, 2019, 07:58:46 am

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Slim

Quote from: rufus the dawg on November 19, 2019, 14:25:45 pmare they, where?

You really are selective about lies. When you are backing someone who's been sacked twice to lying and is a serial philanderer.

Has Jo Swinson been sacked for lying? let me help you with the answer.....No

That is 2-0 to Alexander Bojo not a game I would like to have won. But hey oh each to their own.

Honestly, I try to be charitable to a point. But I seriously think this is the most inadequate argument I've seen in any hopeless cause, in any forum, on any medium, anywhere.

There are more than a few things you haven't taken into account in your hilarious rationale, perhaps the most obvious being the nature of the alleged crimes against truth.

For example: will failing to check facts properly to support a bit of artistic licence for a front page article get you sacked from the Times? Yes.

Will shameless dishonesty to the voters in the pursuit of votes get you sacked from the Lib Dems? No. A standing ovation at their party conference is more likely.

Similarly, Boris' supposed subterfuge about an affair to the Tory Director of Communications is said to have had him sacked by Michael Howard, a decision Howard later said he wasn't confident was the correct one.

Whereas, since we're comparing Conservative and Lib Dem ethics, Paddy Ashdown disclosed that he'd had an affair while he was leader of their party. Was he fired? Nope.

Consider also the amount of time each has spent in the public eye.

Beebop

Quote from: Nïckslïkk2112 on November 18, 2019, 15:50:11 pmOne of the basic tenets of Christianity - and possibly even Roman Catholicism - is forgiveness. Hate the sin, love the sinner.


Dear Confused of Chesterfield

Is this your view on my daughter being LGBTQ+ ?
She is just another sinner who isn't entitled to love another person?


Bigotry is such a good look on you.

rufus the dawg

Quote from: Slim on November 19, 2019, 15:33:15 pmFor example: will failing to check facts properly to support a bit of artistic licence for a front page article get you sacked from the Times? Yes.



Similarly, Boris' supposed subterfuge about an affair to the Tory Director of Communications is said to have had him sacked by Michael Howard, a decision Howard later said he wasn't confident was the correct one.

you said it. He was sacked for dishonesty and lying. Maybe you should try to be truthful to yourself. Take it on the chin.

Slim


Nïckslïkk2112

Quote from: Beebop on November 19, 2019, 18:11:04 pmDear Confused of Chesterfield

Is this your view on my daughter being LGBTQ+ ?
She is just another sinner who isn't entitled to love another person?


Bigotry is such a good look on you.
Where on earth is there bigotry from me? I'm just giving an explanation from Jacob Rees Mogg's point of view. I've never said that anyone can't love anyone else. Denying marriage isn't the same as denying love. Honestly. Personally I'd be like the lefties used to be and be opposed to marriage full stop. The only beneficiaries of it are divorce lawyers.

Oh, and which one of LGBTQ+ is your daughter? She can't be all of them surely as if she were T she'd be your son :) And What is the "+" for? That does confuse me. Hopefully it'll be for true inclusiveness and be there to represent all those who aren't one of the LGBTQ 'cos no matter who you are life's a bitch and then you die.

Now some people consider me homophobic, some people consider me racist. I consider those people Slikkophobes. Personally  - and this is just me - I hate everybody equally. OK, not everybody. I REALLY hate Piers Morgan and Michael McIntyre.
Legend in my own Mind


rufus the dawg

oh dear now the CONservatives lie about lying about fact checking.

Goebbels would love it, well done. They can not stop lying.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/nov/19/tories-tweet-anti-labour-posts-under-factcheckuk-brand

Slim

It explicitly says "Fact Checking Labour from CCHQ". By your own standards, you are lying.

rufus the dawg

Full Fact, which is run by a charity, said it had complained to Twitter and said the account should not be allowed to be used in this way while verified. "It is inappropriate and misleading for the Conservative press office to rename their Twitter account 'factcheckUK' during this debate. Please do not mistake it for an independent fact checking service."
Twitter said in a statement to CNN that it had rules in place to prohibit misleading behaviour.

"Any further attempts to mislead people by editing verified profile information - in a manner seen during the UK Election Debate - will result in decisive corrective action," it said.


and there is this.

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-conservatives-facebook/facebook-fact-checker-finds-uk-conservatives-ran-ads-with-altered-bbc-headline-idUKKCN1VZ00X

The Letter R

Here's a FACT - ALL Politicians lie  - arguing here, back and forth about which Politicians are lying seems a complete waste of time to me as they're all at it.

Slim

I think that's true in a way, but there are lies, and there are lies .. the outright, blatant lie that the Labour Party is peddling at the moment for example that the NHS is up for sale to Donald Trump. That's shocking. And the Lib Dem campaign literature and the dishonestly in that bar chart material - that's really in a different class of malicious dishonesty to the usual spin and exaggeration, which I admit the Tory Party has indulged in here and there.

We mustn't just dismiss it with the usual "oh they all do it". We can't accept it, otherwise every election will become a battle of fake news, and even the Conservatives will start doing it one day.

döm

Quote from: Slim on November 20, 2019, 10:59:25 amI think that's true in a way, but there are lies, and there are lies .. the outright, blatant lie that the Labour Party is peddling at the moment for example that the NHS is up for sale to Donald Trump. That's shocking. And the Lib Dem campaign literature and the dishonestly in that bar chart material - that's really in a different class of malicious dishonesty to the usual spin and exaggeration, which I admit the Tory Party has indulged in here and there.

We mustn't just dismiss it with the usual "oh they all do it". We can't accept it, otherwise every election will become a battle of fake news, and even the Conservatives will start doing it one day.
It's not at all shocking.  If the UK ever does manage to leave the EU Boris Johnson will be desperate to secure a trade deal with the US.  Trump or his successor will hold all the cards and be able to get concessions from the UK and the NHS will be put under severe pressure by those discussions.
You can check out any time you like but you can never leave!

Slim

Quote from: döm on November 20, 2019, 11:52:47 amIt's not at all shocking.  If the UK ever does manage to leave the EU Boris Johnson will be desperate to secure a trade deal with the US.  Trump or his successor will hold all the cards and be able to get concessions from the UK and the NHS will be put under severe pressure by those discussions.
So it does work then, this tactic of blatant untruths. You've managed to find some sort of rationale to bend into the narrative.

We'll have to disagree then; my own view is that the NHS will not be on the table, and that the claim that it is is a flat-out vote-grubbing lie.

Slim

Anyway - last night's head-to-head.

I didn't actually watch it, I had a conflicting commitment. I've seen some of the highlights.

But the consensus seems to be that Boris did get the better of Corbyn on the night but that the Labour leader did better, as a percentage of people who thought he'd "won", than his standing in the polls.

Unless either participant makes a game-changing gaffe I don't really see these occasions as a contest with a winner and loser anyway and I think the Central Office tweet I posted was as silly as it was predictable.

Anyway - it wasn't a game-changer. Corbyn still needs one.

Boris has raised his game for the top job and he's clearly been very well briefed and prepared. I wouldn't have expected him to do well in a confrontation like this a year or two ago. I was especially impressed by his speech to the CBI on Monday.

The Letter R

Quote from: Slim on November 20, 2019, 10:59:25 amWe mustn't just dismiss it with the usual "oh they all do it". We can't accept it, otherwise every election will become a battle of fake news, and even the Conservatives will start doing it one day.
I don't dismiss it - am merely telling it as it is. I think the horse has already bolted and the election is a battle of fake news with a few smoke screens thrown in for good measure. A very sad state of affairs in my opinion.

Slim

I'm afraid you're telling it as it isn't, if you claim that the Conservative Party has stooped to the same barefaced lying tactics as the opposition parties.