Donny Trump

Started by Pricey, August 07, 2019, 13:50:06 pm

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Slim

I'm sort of OK with blaming the entire collapse in public finances on Gordon Brown, even though it's demonstrably unfair. I'll continue to use it where necessary.

Because Thatcher always gets the blame for tanking British industry and causing wholesale unemployment in the '80s, when actually the Labour movement and trade unions did that.

Quite a nice bit of payback, I think.

But back on topic: here's a thought about Trump, Katie Hopkins, Tommy Robinson and the likes. They are really a product of the vacuous silliness of the Left. Every time ordinary people hear criminal illegal immigrants being referred to as "refugees", or Nigel Farage described as a racist, or see people snivelling and grovelling to the EU, they are quite naturally repelled by that, and some will tend to be polarised.

At least Katie Hopkins and Tommy Robinson are only agitators.

rufus the dawg

Quote from: Slim on August 10, 2019, 23:10:05 pmwhen actually the Labour movement and trade unions did that.
err no, way more complicated and grey than this black and white statement.

pdw1

Quote from: Slim on August 10, 2019, 23:10:05 pmI'm sort of OK with blaming the entire collapse in public finances on Gordon Brown, even though it's demonstrably unfair. I'll continue to use it where necessary.

Because Thatcher always gets the blame for tanking British industry and causing wholesale unemployment in the '80s, when actually the Labour movement and trade unions did that.

Quite a nice bit of payback, I think.
In other words the truth has no place in your arguments  ::)
Better drowned than duffers if not duffers wont drown

rufus the dawg

Quote from: pdw1 on August 11, 2019, 11:42:17 amIn other words the truth has no place in your arguments  ::)
Totally agree with you. This is the problem with politics. Making cheap political points with lies.

Nuance and understanding taking responsibility have no place.

Slim

Quote from: pdw1 on August 11, 2019, 11:42:17 amIn other words the truth has no place in your arguments  ::)

That's certainly not a rational inference from what I typed, but not to worry if it went over your head.

In any case any sane person with a bit of political acumen will have noticed that truth is honoured and revered in my arguments here over Brexit, and frankly I almost seem to be alone in that.

Slim

Quote from: rufus the dawg on August 10, 2019, 23:59:59 pmerr no, way more complicated and grey than this black and white statement.

As a brief summary, it's accurate.

rufus the dawg

Quote from: Slim on August 11, 2019, 14:35:02 pmAs a brief summary, it's accurate.
Tell you what if you are so sure. Come back with clear reasons why labour and the Unions are 100% behind  "tanking British industry and causing wholesale unemployment in the '80s"  with peer reviews and I will accept it's accurate.

Otherwise I will carry on thinking you are a CONservative stooge using cliches for arguments.

Slim

Quote from: rufus the dawg on August 11, 2019, 19:54:55 pmTell you what if you are so sure. Come back with clear reasons why labour and the Unions are 100% behind  "tanking British industry and causing wholesale unemployment in the '80s"  with peer reviews and I will accept it's accurate.

Otherwise I will carry on thinking you are a CONservative stooge using cliches for arguments.


Hi Rufus.

Firstly, I said that it was an accurate summary, not a comprehensive analysis. But you wouldn't accept its accuracy no matter how much evidence you were provided with, and in any case, whether you do or not is not very important.

And secondly - there's a certain irony in your second paragraph, isn't there? In that you've substituted a cliché for an argument? Of course you're welcome to submit a peer-reviewed thesis with lavishly justified conclusions and perhaps a bit more of that nuance you're so fond of that I can find in what you've typed here, if you think I'm wrong about that.

rufus the dawg

Quote from: Slim on August 11, 2019, 23:22:13 pmHi Rufus.

Firstly, I said that it was an accurate summary, not a comprehensive analysis. But you wouldn't accept its accuracy no matter how much evidence you were provided with, and in any case, whether you do or not is not very important.

And secondly - there's a certain irony in your second paragraph, isn't there? In that you've substituted a cliché for an argument? Of course you're welcome to submit a peer-reviewed thesis with lavishly justified conclusions and perhaps a bit more of that nuance you're so fond of that I can find in what you've typed here, if you think I'm wrong about that.
Congratulations you have won the TNMS grand price "Mr CONservative Stooge of TNMS"


BTW Cliche meaning - a phrase or opinion that is overused and betrays a lack of original thought.
opinion meaning - a view or judgement formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.

It was not me who is putting the opinion forward it was you. I am asking you to justify it and you are unwilling to/ unable to. I do not have to justify your cliched opinions;  that takes the biscuit.

Irony yep.

Slim

Quote from: rufus the dawg on August 12, 2019, 10:26:51 amCongratulations you have won the TNMS grand price "Mr CONservative Stooge of TNMS"


BTW Cliche meaning - a phrase or opinion that is overused and betrays a lack of original thought.
opinion meaning - a view or judgement formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.

It was not me who is putting the opinion forward it was you. I am asking you to justify it and you are unwilling to/ unable to. I do not have to justify your cliched opinions;  that takes the biscuit.

Irony yep.

You genuinely don't see the comical, self-humiliating irony in the drivel you're posting? You honestly can't understand that you're inviting people to laugh at you?

I'll help you. Don't thank me, you're welcome.

Firstly the term "CONservative" is an old trope which if nothing else is overused and betrays a lack of original thought.

Secondly, like pretty much everything else you've typed in this thread and others, it represents your opinion.

So could we please have a peer-reviewed, nuanced thesis to support these opinions?

Please itemise the conclusions you arrive at, with references to supporting material. Authorative sources, please.

Since this is the standard you hold others to, that's the least we can expect from you, isn't it?

I'll look forward to it. No hurry though, the end of September will be fine. I appreciate that it takes time to prepare these things.

rufus the dawg

August 12, 2019, 15:55:31 pm #25 Last Edit: August 12, 2019, 15:59:34 pm by rufus the dawg
Playing the man as usual and not able back up your own cliches.

Here you go, this might help you start on your thesis. Good luck!


Quote from: Slim on August 10, 2019, 23:10:05 pmBecause Thatcher always gets the blame for tanking British industry and causing wholesale unemployment in the '80s, when actually the Labour movement and trade unions did that.




The main impact of her first term was economic. Inheriting a weak economy, she reduced or eliminated some governmental regulations and subsidies to businesses, thereby purging the manufacturing industry of many inefficient--but also some blameless--firms. The result was a dramatic increase in unemployment, from 1.3 million in 1979 to more than double that figure two years later. At the same time, inflation doubled in just 14 months, to more than 20 percent, and manufacturing output fell sharply. Although inflation decreased and output rose before the end of her first term, unemployment continued to increase, reaching more than three million in 1986.

Throughout his ministry (1976-79), Callaghan, a moderate within the Labour Party, tried to stem the increasingly vociferous demands of Britain's trade unions. He also had to secure the passage of unpopular cuts in government spending early in his ministry. His reassuring public manner came to be criticized as complacency when a series of labour strikes in 1978-79 paralyzed hospital care, refuse collection, and other essential services. In March 1979 his government was brought down by a vote of no confidence passed in the House of Commons, the first such occurrence since 1924. At the subsequent general election, Callaghan's party was defeated. On October 15, 1980, he resigned as leader of the Labour Party, to be succeeded by Michael Foot. He was created a life peer in 1987 and published an autobiography, Time and Chance, the same year.

The early 1980s recession was a severe global economic recession that affected much of the developed world in the late 1970s and early 1980s. The United States and Japan exited the recession relatively early, but high unemployment would continue to affect other OECD nations until at least 1985.[1]


Slim

Quote from: rufus the dawg on August 12, 2019, 15:55:31 pmPlaying the man as usual and not able back up your own cliches.


No .. just holding you to the same standard you expect from others. When are you going to back up your own baseless, hackneyed, baseless, tiresome and baseless cliches?

rufus the dawg


rufus the dawg

Synopses, of the above

You said.
Quote from: Slim on August 10, 2019, 23:10:05 pmBecause Thatcher always gets the blame for tanking British industry and causing wholesale unemployment in the '80s, when actually the Labour movement and trade unions did that.

I said prove it, that is just another CONservative cliche.

Quote from: rufus the dawg on August 11, 2019, 19:54:55 pmTell you what if you are so sure. Come back with clear reasons why labour and the Unions are 100% behind  "tanking British industry and causing wholesale unemployment in the '80s"  with peer reviews and I will accept it's accurate.

You are unable too. 

This says it all about you.

Quote from: pdw1 on August 11, 2019, 11:42:17 amIn other words the truth has no place in your arguments  ::)


Far from going above our heads, we all totally understand you.

The Letter R

I thought this thread was Headed Donny Trump?

If people want to debate the Thatcher era then do that in your own thread please...... ;)