We need to talk about Boris

Started by Matt2112, July 27, 2019, 04:07:58 am

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Matt2112

Quote from: rufus the dawg on December 10, 2019, 03:41:37 amThe CONservatives have the same amount Anti semitism has the labour party, and the CONservatives have a very serious Islamophobic problem.

Will you be taking an honest view on the Islamophobic Boris Johnson and the conservatives then?
Your first point begs the question why the Tories are not being subject to an independent enquiry into institutional anti-semitism, yet the Labour Party is.

Secondly, anti-semitism and "Islamophobia" are not two sides of the same coin; the former refers to people, the latter to a set of ideas.  Ideas are fair game for a "phobia", a group of people are not.  This is why (as Sajid Javid and reformists like Maajid Nawaz rightly point out) what is correctly called out as anti-Muslim prejudice should not be conflated and confused with accusations of  "Islamophobia".

Bojo infamously referred to niqab-wearing Muslim women as looking like "letterboxes" in the same article in which he endorsed their right to wear such religiously conservative clothing. That position strikes me as actually to the left of Muslim feminists like Yasmin Alibhai-Brown who are far more scathing of her counterparts who dress more "modestly".

But, of course, something like that will go unsaid on the far left lest they get into one of their intersectional identity-politics tizzies.
The keys to happiness

Slim

It's silly to pretend that minor incidents of Islamophobia (which I do take to mean prejudice against Muslim people since that's the accepted definition in common usage, whether logically correct or not) in the Tory party can be compared to the endemic, institutionalised anti-semitism that infests the Labour Party from the bottom right to the top.

Indeed it's exactly the limp-wristed whataboutery response that I hope I debunked in the piece I wrote earlier in the week.

That said, Islamophobia needs to be properly handled and punished wherever it arises, certainly in the Tory Party.

And our Prime Minister's Muslim great-grandfather from Turkey would spin in his grave if it wasn't.

rufus the dawg

I agree with most of your post, but clearly there is an Islamophobic problem in the Tory party.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/dec/11/tories-open-second-investigation-sally-ann-hart-hastings-candidate

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/dec/08/james-cleverly-apologises-over-tory-islamophobia-and-racism-allegations

and I could/can point you lots of these articles about the Tory party. This is not just a labour party problem like the conservatives and parts of the media are making out. BJ did not have to make offensive remarks to make his point, but he does all the time about all sorts of minority groups. Which is part of the whistle blower racism that he is part of and that has been on the rise since the referendum. He has played along with it to muster more support and created and stoked the fire for his own gain. You need to look at the poll I posted up which shows that there is more antisemitism supporters of the conservative party then the labour party. Then you also have wonder why the conservatives are not doing anything for the Palestinian people, which are having their land systematically removed by the Israeli state. Would you allow France to invade parts of Kent? read this https://mondoweiss.net/2019/08/islamophobia-hierarchies-discrimination/

Both are vile and not done in my name, the local conservative, Eton schooled MP was reported to the police the other day for hate crime https://www.shropshirestar.com/news/crime/2019/11/29/police-investigating-alleged-hate-crime-over-philip-dunne-turban-remark-to-opponent-kuldip-sahota/ 

Let us not forget that the Conservatives have been part of a much larger problem that we have all forgotten

Windrush, the social clearing of black people out of this country. The conservatives created the hostile environment against so called illegal immigrants back to the Caribbean. The Irony is that one of the arguments for brexit was to have less immigration from the EU and more from the rest of the world.

So can I support either Labour or Conservative - NO,  that is why I want a reset button and I would sack them all and have a completely new system.

sorry this is very rushed tons of spelling mistakes and literary errors, dyslexia.
Bond, Rufus, Dash and Blaize.

döm

Something has to be wrong with democracy when the choice is between Boris Johnson & Jeremy Corbyn.

I despair at the thought that enough people are out there that are willing to give their vote to a party led by Johnson.  I begin to think that the country must be completely different to the one I left 15 years ago. Then I realise that the choice is him or Corbyn and that does make it more understandable/Palatable

So I want a hung parliament leading to a 2nd Brexit referendum. Tactical voting ftw!!

If Labour had a more moderate man in charge there is no way that Johnson would have a chance of remaining prime minister.  If he does become leader with a majority that enables him to do what he wants I really want "Get Brexit Done" to be as big a millstone to him as "Strong and Stable" was to May.
You can check out any time you like but you can never leave!

Chris Quartly

I agree with Dom on this one. The biggest damnation that can be thrown at Labour is that any competent party should be absolutely wiping the floor given the shower of shit they are up against.
Last.fm playlist of previous 7 days:<br /><br /><br />Q's Comps<br /><br />Some Other Suckers Parade

Richard_2112

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-hides-fridge-general-election-piers-morgan-good-morning-britain-live-tv-a9241631.html

What an utter coward! And people really think he'll be able to stand up to world leaders who will pick apart the scraps of the UK if we ever do leave the EU!?
Over thinking, over analyzing separates the body from the mind. Withering my intuition, missing opportunities and I must feed my will to feel my moment drawing way outside the lines.

zoony

Quote from: Chris Quartly on December 11, 2019, 19:23:04 pmI agree with Dom on this one. The biggest damnation that can be thrown at Labour is that any competent party should be absolutely wiping the floor given the shower of shit they are up against.
And Corbyn is the biggest turd amongst all of them.

Nïckslïkk2112

Quote from: Matt2112 on December 11, 2019, 15:40:06 pmBojo infamously referred to niqab-wearing Muslim women as looking like "letterboxes" in the same article in which he endorsed their right to wear such religiously conservative clothing. That position strikes me as actually to the left of Muslim feminists like Yasmin Alibhai-Brown who are far more scathing of her counterparts who dress more "modestly".

But, of course, something like that will go unsaid on the far left lest they get into one of their intersectional identity-politics tizzies.
People today only seem to be able to deal with "soundbites" and make no effort to take into account the details and context of what someone has said. It started back with Mrs Thatched and her taken out of context "No such thing as society". People hear these things and then just parrot them as if they understand. They know nothing.

In anoter post Richard2112 referenced the closure of 780 libraries. The Mail on Sunday - yes the MoS -  was lamenting that last week, with someone saying that libraries are where people can go to broaden their horizons. There you have the reason why libraries will shut, the vast majority of people today don't want to broaden their horizons. It's all about social media likes, the next tattoo and what shade they are going to be spray-tanned.

The whole world needs resetting.
Legend in my own Mind


Bisto

Quote from: Nïckslïkk2112 on December 12, 2019, 13:42:29 pmPeople today only seem to be able to deal with "soundbites" and make no effort to take into account the details and context of what someone has said. It started back with Mrs Thatched and her taken out of context "No such thing as society". People hear these things and then just parrot them as if they understand. They know nothing.

In anoter post Richard2112 referenced the closure of 780 libraries. The Mail on Sunday - yes the MoS -  was lamenting that last week, with someone saying that libraries are where people can go to broaden their horizons. There you have the reason why libraries will shut, the vast majority of people today don't want to broaden their horizons. It's all about social media likes, the next tattoo and what shade they are going to be spray-tanned.

The whole world needs resetting.
Hell is other people.
No good deed goes unpunished!

No amount of anxiety can change the future. No amount of regret can change the past.

döm

Lots of rumours coming out of Uxbridge that his Uxbridge seat may be in danger. Fingers crossed !
You can check out any time you like but you can never leave!

Nïckslïkk2112

December 12, 2019, 22:44:43 pm #115 Last Edit: December 12, 2019, 22:46:56 pm by Nïckslïkk2112
Quote from: Bisto on December 12, 2019, 21:37:07 pmHell is other people.
Not 'Arf!

Especially when you have Aspergers, Misophonia and Misokinesia.
Legend in my own Mind


Slim

I can't wait for the c*** in Islington.

Slim

Sorry, meant to type "count" of course.

Bisto

Below is a list of the devastating measures already undertaken by dictator Johnson.

Borrowed!
.
In his first four days as Prime Monster of the United Kingdom Boris Johnson has:

Cut the disability benefits of 650,000 vulnerable people.

Rolled back on plans to address the climate change emergency.

Banned any boycott of Israel and supported their renewed offensive against the unarmed civilians of Gaza.

Removed child refugee legal protections.

Rolled back his pledge to increase nurses for the NHS.

Told us that the NHS is no longer protected from a trade deal with the US.

Told us that future deals will be conducted in secret.

Blocked anyone without photo ID from voting in future elections.

Drafted new constituency boundaries to keep the Tories in power indefinitely.

Dismissed renewed calls for a second Scottish independence referendum causing further disharmony.

Stated that workers rights and Trade Unions are under threat.

Rolled back pledge to increase the national living wage. 

Announced an increase in MP's wages to £82k a year

Scrapped EU directives on holiday pay, sick leave and working hours.

Stated that Brexit is happening by the the 31st of January with the worst no-deal scenario yet.

For anyone looking for sources (thanks Katie Round):

1 disability
https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/650000-disability-benefit-claimants-money-3654699

2 Climate change https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-climate-change-flights-carbon-emissions-net-zero-queens-speech-a9253516.html

3 israel
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-israel-boycott-ban-bds-queens-speech-a9253651.html

4 child refugee
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/boris-johnson-withdrawal-bill-brexit-child-refugees-dubs-amendment-a9253841.html

5 nurses
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/election-2019-50834894/matt-hancock-and-dan-walker-clash-over-tory-50000-nurses-pledge

6 secret future deals
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-brexit-bill-trade-deal-us-withdrawal-agreement-latest-a9253811.html

7 voting and id
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/voter-id-policy-boris-johnson-election-polling-stations-queens-speech-a9254641.html

8 new constituencies
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1219004/boris-johnson-news-boundary-changes-uk-constituencies-labour-party

9 scottish independence
https://learningenglish.voanews.com/a/johnson-refuses-call-for-scottish-independence-vote-/5212688.html

10 workers rights
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-queens-speech-brexit-news-workers-rights-withdrawal-agreement-a9253141.html

11 national living wage
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-living-wage-queens-speech-sajid-javid-manifesto-tory-a9253376.html

12 mps wages
https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1218895/MPs-pay-rise-house-of-commons-tories-labour-brexit-election-expenses-scandal

13 eu holiday pay
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnson-judges-scrap-eu-21121617

14 no deal
https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/brexit/brexit-deal-latest-boris-johnson-no-deal-exit-eu-talks-1342720

Thanks to Occupy News Network
No good deed goes unpunished!

No amount of anxiety can change the future. No amount of regret can change the past.

Nïckslïkk2112

And if you actually read the articles - admittedly I've only looked at a couple- there's a lot of "could" about these things.

e.g. on 13 judges will be allowed to overturn things. Being allowed to doesn''t mean they will do.

e.g. on 11 the living wage the pledge included "so long as economic conditions allow" nothing that the increases will NOT be implemented. Personally the living wage wants scrapping, it means that the differential between the economically inept and the merely low paid - such as my dear wife - is being eroded.

People: Do not believe ANYTHING you read. Don't take links at face value.
Legend in my own Mind