The Conservative Party Leadership Election of 2019

Started by Slim, May 29, 2019, 16:23:15 pm

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The Letter R

We now have a 12th Runner!!!
Mark Harper - former chief whip - famous for being a Minister in the Home Office and resigning as an immigration minister when it was found his cleaner didn't have permission to work in the UK.......so another one with a tainted history. An outside runner for sure and being a relatively junior candidate to the others in the race would expect him to fall at the first - but who knows in the current political landscape?

Slim

Quote from: Chris Quartly on May 30, 2019, 22:06:13 pmUnfortunate facts like the ones he makes in his argument don't seem to pose much care to those who want no-deal...

The simple fact that ruling out no deal won't deliver Brexit is a rather more pertinent fact, I think.

Slim

Quote from: Matt2112 on May 30, 2019, 15:39:29 pmMaybe ask the hordes of ex-teaching professionals who quit under his tenure. :)

Could we ask you instead, Matt? I don't actually know any of those ex teachers myself.

Chris Quartly

Quote from: Slim on May 31, 2019, 11:52:16 amThe simple fact that ruling out no deal won't deliver Brexit is a rather more pertinent fact, I think.
The cutting one's nose off to spite one's face option is always an option.
Last.fm playlist of previous 7 days:<br /><br /><br />Q's Comps<br /><br />Some Other Suckers Parade

DavidL

Quote from: Chris Quartly on May 31, 2019, 17:44:52 pmThe cutting one's nose off to spite one's face option is always an option.
On whether or not those that tell us that is the case can be believed, you may prefer speculation rather than evidence.

Matt2112

Quote from: Slim on May 31, 2019, 11:54:07 amCould we ask you instead, Matt? I don't actually know any of those ex teachers myself.
That would be to get ahead of ourselves. By what metrics were Hunt and Gove successful?

Meanwhile, we can add homophobia apologist McVey to the list who shouldn't be anywhere near power with her imbecilic "parents know best" comment.  If she has such contempt for the law which her own party has every intention of implementing then maybe she shouldn't be running for leadership but fcking off to a theocracy somewhere. :)
The keys to happiness

Slim

Quote from: Chris Quartly on May 31, 2019, 17:44:52 pmThe cutting one's nose off to spite one's face option is always an option.

I don't think it is.

Slim

Quote from: Matt2112 on June 01, 2019, 11:40:08 amThat would be to get ahead of ourselves.

Not really - you did tell us the he was a sociopath in unequivocal terms, so it was only reasonable to ask you why at this point, isn't it?

As for why he was a successful education secretary - I don't want to derail the thread too much, but it's rare for people in that job to bring about actual results, mostly because they aren't prepared to take on the education establishment and the teachers to help the kids. Critically, he made exams more rigorous and he got the Education Reform Act through the commons within 11 weeks of the 2010 General Election. He set higher standards for entry into the teaching profession and gave teachers more power over discipline. He set higher standards for failing schools as well, ensuring that they could be handed over to new management more easily.  

Back on topic - apparently Michael has told the rest of the Cabinet that he's prepared to delay Brexit until 2020. I don't think the party will wear that, and the Brexit Party's current fortunes in the polls:



.. will tend to concentrate minds about that.

Interesting piece in the Independent though, in which John Rentoul argues that he'll beat Boris to the top job:

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/boris-johnson-michael-gove-next-conservative-leader-leadership-race-a8939516.html

The Letter R

Quote from: Slim on June 02, 2019, 16:53:11 pmBack on topic - apparently Michael has told the rest of the Cabinet that he's prepared to delay Brexit until 2020. I don't think the party will wear that, and the Brexit Party's current fortunes in the polls:




In reality that is probably not a bad suggestion if he is going to try and re-negotiate a deal with the EU - assuming he wins the leadership contest of course.
Between now and the end of October there is very little time to push through anything that isn't already on the table - which is No Deal, The May Deal which has been rejected many times over and surely would not be championed by the new leader and of course not leaving at all.
If Gove does not want a No deal but a new negotiated deal with the EU then really the leave date has to be postponed.
The other issue is though will the EU allow this? if they don't his next option may be to revoke article 50, then, when he sees fit, present it again to Europe and start from square 1 again.

Nick

I thought the EU were fairly clear in advising they wont do another deal other than the one negotiated by May.
Everybody's got to evalate from the norm.

döm

Quote from: Nick on June 03, 2019, 16:47:51 pmI thought the EU were fairly clear in advising they wont do another deal other than the one negotiated by May.
Yes the EU team put together for the withdrawal agreement has been disbanded I understand
You can check out any time you like but you can never leave!

Slim

Quote from: The Letter R on June 03, 2019, 14:00:18 pmIn reality that is probably not a bad suggestion if he is going to try and re-negotiate a deal with the EU - assuming he wins the leadership contest of course.

Between now and the end of October there is very little time to push through anything that isn't already on the table - which is No Deal, The May Deal which has been rejected many times over and surely would not be championed by the new leader and of course not leaving at all.

If Gove does not want a No deal but a new negotiated deal with the EU then really the leave date has to be postponed.
The other issue is though will the EU allow this? if they don't his next option may be to revoke article 50, then, when he sees fit, present it again to Europe and start from square 1 again.

The party won't wear another extension, so all the above is moot. Revoking article 50 is the nuclear button; just not an option for a Conservative leader.

It's curious that the EU are so inflexible on the existing "deal", isn't it? Given that it was never actually agreed, and as you observe, is very unlikely to be. You have to wonder if they're just trying to manouevre us into revoking - or in other words, overturning our democracy, which is of course a wilfully hostile act. These loathsome people are quite deliberately adopting a stance as our enemies, not the "partners" some would have you believe.

Anyway - while no deal may be unpalatable to some, if the EU continues with its intransigence then it's undoubtedly the only viable option. Our anti-democratic Parliament and a clearly remain-biased Speaker might just find a way to force a revocation of article 50 instead, but if they do, the lid will come off a very toxic and explosive can of worms, I think.

Anyway - concerning the matter at hand, I seriously doubt the Conservative Party will accept anyone contemplating an extension of our membership of that miserable institution as leader.

Slim

Quote from: Slim on May 29, 2019, 16:23:15 pmI've followed James for year or two on Twitter and was surprised to see that he'd thrown his hat into the ring. James can claim to have supported Brexit since before the referendum, and is also on record of accepting that no deal is better than a bad deal. But then again, Theresa used to say that, didn't she?

I'm afraid James' chances are fatally tainted by his overt support as a government minister for Theresa's instrument of surrender.


James has just pulled out of the contest, saying that the party is not yet prepared to "skip a generation". He tweeted that he was "unlikely to get the numbers I needed to progress to the final two candidates" which I'm sure is true for a number of the other hopefuls, as well.

Speaking of which:


Sam Gyimah

Actually running for leadership of the party on a second referendum ticket, which I find ethically repellent personally. And since invoking the spectre of a loser's vote was the final, toxic straw that had the men in grey suits summoning Theresa for a quiet word, quite a perverse approach for someone hoping to succeed her.

But I get the idea that Sam just wants to broaden the argument a bit. No-one actually believes he has a chance of winning.

Which come to think of it was the exact reason that Corbyn was nominated to run in the Labour leadership contest of 2015, so you never know!

I recall an interview with Sam by Clive Myrie on News 24 in 2016 in which he came across really unnecessarily grumpy and hostile, so perhaps not that media savvy.

Anyway - can't help thinking he'd be more at home in the Lib Dims.


Sajid Javid

It's a lovely idea, isn't it? The son of an immigrant bus driver rising through the ranks of the Tory Party, supposedly a bastion of privilege where the right school tie counts for everything, to become Prime Minister?

My concerns about Sajid are twofold: firstly I'm troubled by his illiberal response to the Shamima Begum affair. And secondly, although he's making the right noises about No Deal now, he voted to remain and I think might well give undue emphasis, and concede too much power, to our enemies at the EU.

He was not one of those who resigned from government on principle when Theresa's surrender plan unfolded, and he's tainted by that, I think.

The Letter R

I suspect a few of the no-hopers who have thrown their hat in the ring will be getting a quiet word in their ear to pull out and perhaps support candidate X or Y and you may get a decent job in the cabinet if they get in......

Bez

I've lost count....are we now down to 12? Regulation size for a jury or a large box of eggs...

You can decide which is more appropriate ;D
RC1.1 abd g/n 11/0/bcd/tG PeW/- ~600 x 0 61%