Author Topic: Brexit watch  (Read 59780 times)

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DavidL

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Re: Brexit watch
« Reply #2820 on: March 15, 2019, 07:31:05 AM »
Wonder  if the EU will stay stuff your extension. We're dumping you at the end of March!
I sincerely hope so

The Letter R

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Re: Brexit watch
« Reply #2821 on: March 15, 2019, 09:05:18 AM »
I sincerely hope so


The danger the EU face by blocking an extension request is we could withdraw article 50 and re-submit a day/week/month/year later without having to ask their permission - so it would be better for them to grant a short extension than risk us adding another 2 + years or more to the whole thing.

döm

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Re: Brexit watch
« Reply #2822 on: March 15, 2019, 14:22:21 PM »
I sincerely hope so


I see Farage touting around Europe to get support for this. The irony!
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rufus the dawg

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Re: Brexit watch
« Reply #2823 on: March 16, 2019, 12:12:03 PM »

Shit post Rufus.
So you need more than a simple majority? Why?


Thanks Nick


In this country under our own company laws if the shareholders want to change something important about the company a Special Resolution is required which is the vote of 75% of shareholders. Days to day stuff can be passed by Ordinary Resolution which is a simple majority. I simply feel that  something as important as this should require a larger than simple majority. Although I appreciate that it makes change more difficult and that can be constraining.



1. If leave broke election rules and IF that was a factor in the result you may have a point, but there are a lot of IFs there. Did it actually influence the result? Impossible to say.
And they were "buying" influence on Facebook were they? Facebook, used by all the Young folk who are the EUrophiles. Way to target your demographics.


It is proven, there are no if’s.  Leave did lie, they have broken election rules and Cambridge Anaylitica did harvest data from facebook who spread face news and Russia did open 100s of fake facebook accounts spreading fake news that were pro Leave. Fact

2. "Leave" didn't have a plan because there was no one "Leave" there were different leave groups. It was just a simple question "In or Out", but it was a question we have been promised we would be asked by all the main political parties. We were never asked if we wanted the EEC to become the EU. Should we have been? Who can say.
 

There were two Leave groups, Farage’s and BoJo/Gove’s. We were promised we could leave the EU, pay no more into it, end free movement, and not be subject to the ECJ any longer; and yet keep all the benefits. That was “the plan”. Then reality kicked in and each Leave group morphed into something else. Farage changes his view depending....BoJo backs Canada plus plus and his fellow Leave campaigner backs May’s deal.

3. Don't forget, the supposed older folk who voted leave were probably the younger folk who voted to join the EEC back in the day. Times change, people's opinions change, they aren't carved in stone. One thing Brexit has proved is that politicians are oblivious to the people they serve and are getting more so.

It is quite possible the older folk who voted Leave were in the 30% who voted not to join!

4. I have never mentioned not liking EU rules. I just don't want to be part of it full stop. As a trading block it was fine, but what is it now, what will it become, no one knows. It gradually just keeps on gradually morphing into something different. You keep saying that we have no say outside the EU, but in it we are just one of 28 and one which has always been a square peg in a round hole.

How differently we think! Everyone knows that where the UK, Germany and France lead, the others follow. The Single Market was a Mrs Thatcher led initiative. All legislation is in the English language, largely drafted by UK lawyers. We have been massively influential and are giving up that role. One of my life mantras is “never to say no if you don’t know what you are saying no to”, because that is uninformed decision making. To leave because “ what it will become, no one knows” is not the way I live.  We know that before we joined we were “the sick man of Europe”. We know it has given peace. We know that the desperation of many people is down to austerity, not the EU. When/if we leave the EU the EU will still be there influencing our laws, we just will not have a say, it would be better to disrupt if from within if that is the way you think.

5. Farage is yesterday's man. Yes of course we can survive outside the EU, but have we really been one of the greatest influences in all the laws and regulations? Really? It was proven in the cycling thread on TNMS that EU cycle helmet laws are less strict than the British Standard. You keep banging on about Farage and his fishing meetings, but why should someone who knows the square root of bugger all about fishing have any influence on it? All MEPs are assigned to some committee or other and as a deputy on another committee*

*NB this actually applies to all politicians. Feeble lot the lot of them.

We tend to apply the gold standard of EU laws; it’s the way we are. We can agree about politicians! And Farage being yesterday’s man.....hoisting himself with his own petard tossing fish into the Thames when he knows the square root of bugger all as you put it.

6. Once again, there was no one "Brexit" breaking any election rules. The only failure at the hurdle will be if Brexit doesn't happen. We had a democratic vote, there was a majority to leave, that's Democracy. How democratic is the EU? Come on, how can the people of Europe have a say in who the European Commissioners are? Come on tell me.
Why do the people of Europe vote for MEPs who sit in a Parliament and just rubber stamp edicts from on high? Come on, where's the democracy in that?
You can see the splinter in other's eyes, but you neglect the whopping great plank in your own.

See above re election rules. OK...the Commissioners are elected by each member’s governments which are elected by each countries electorate. It’s like our cabinet; we don’t vote for our Foreign Secretary. Or, it’s like our Civil Service; we don’t vote for our Ambassadors. And MEPs don’t rubber stamp edicts from on high. They scrutinise and fail them if they don’t like them.

7. A Brucie Bonus, to get Parliamentary Sovereignty - something that the remainers on here don't understand the concept of - we have to leave the EU, Parliamentary Sovereignty means only Parliament can enact or repeal laws. Can we unilaterally repeal laws we have had to accept as being part of the EU? If not where is Parliamentary sovereignty.

This is a multi faceted issue. (a) the UK has only disagreed with 2% of EU laws, most on environmental issues that quite possibly the electorate would support! ( b) in giving up that tiny bit of control we have gained enormous control over 27 other nations, and what they can do. It creates a more even playing field for all in the EU. It also gives the group more heft in standing up to the US and China in the global trade battles. ( c) The ECJ only has jurisdiction on EU related laws, and we have a judge sitting on it. (d ) If any business wants to trade with the EU its contracts will have a laws and jurisdiction clause in it. The party with the greater bargaining power usually wins that one, so many businesses will continue to have to be subject to the EU’s laws and the jurisdiction of the ECJ.

As an aside, can people on TNMS name their Parliamentary constituency MP? Can you name your MEPs?

Answers: Glynn (I’m seriously thick) Davies and in Wales we have 4 MEPs all voted in by PR, one is Nathan Gill ex UKIP. We also have Russell George as our AM.


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Bez

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Re: Brexit watch
« Reply #2824 on: Yesterday at 07:36:31 »
I'm confused this morning (more so than usual)

It seems that the PM is still touting her (unchanged) deal around in advance of yet another vote.....is the plan to keep asking until MPs give in?
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Matt2112

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Re: Brexit watch
« Reply #2825 on: Yesterday at 10:46:44 »
I'm confused this morning (more so than usual)

It seems that the PM is still touting her (unchanged) deal around in advance of yet another vote.....is the plan to keep asking until MPs give in?


Apparently so, the only slight difference being the added "argument from adverse consequences" she keeps tacking on; last week it was,"Vote for it or risk No Deal", and this week it's "Vote for it or risk No Brexit".  You can only despair.  :-\
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rufus the dawg

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Re: Brexit watch
« Reply #2826 on: Yesterday at 10:57:15 »
Yes, weird the EU have not changed their position.

If the EU and UK can not agree a final deal and we want to get out of the EU we have to apply to an EU arbitration body. So people voting for TMs deal are voting for unelected EU bureaucrats to decide our future.


DavidL

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Re: Brexit watch
« Reply #2827 on: Yesterday at 11:41:50 »
I'm confused this morning (more so than usual)

It seems that the PM is still touting her (unchanged) deal around in advance of yet another vote.....is the plan to keep asking until MPs give in?
Yes. The ERG may give in, given the alternative of no Brexit but the DUP will be a tougher nut to crack this way as they hold the integrity of the UK in higher regard than Br Exit.