Brexit watch

[Nick]

Finally I found a definition of  Brexit

"The undefined being negotiated by the unprepared in order to get the unspecified for the uninformed"

[rufus the dawg]

Yes, I always laugh out loud when I see the Guardian's begging letter!

What are options though.

[/size]1.Grauniad / Indy. asking for contributions from readers and hardly any adverts2. Thunderer, Torygraph.  Pay walls.3. Daily Hail. Click fest Gossip with tons of adverts and soft porn all over it.

[Matt2112]

Okay Dom, in a nutshell this is what I understand by the term "regressive left".

It's not at the extreme left that rubs shoulders with communism; it's more those who seemed to have somehow drifted away from (i.e. betrayed) the centre left (whereabouts I am) and have become the sort of self-appointed, knee-jerk, overcompensating identity politics police that consider pretty much anything right of centre as tantamount to fascism.  It's the position where anything that can be tenuously linked to sexism, homophobia, so-called "islamophobia" etc etc is jumped upon and branded bigoted without evaluating any context, particularly where these issues are being discussed (or satirised) with a genuine, honest scrutiny (even when it is by victims of the aforementioned prejudices themselves!).  They appear to have a kind of rhetorical hierarchy where some topics should be afforded automatic deference, free passes from critical analysis and cocooned from the most active arenas of public discourse.  It's the "woke" movement, the virtue-signallers, the humblebraggers, those who have become so liberal they'd advocate rights for those who would saw off their heads without a second thought.   It's those whose minds are so open their brains have fallen out.

It's the Chakrabartis, the Laurie Pennys, the Glenn Greenwalds, the - to a slightly lesser extent - Owen Joneses.

Hope that clarifies...!

[Matt2112]

I'll just add by way of contrast that the "antidotes" to those names I listed are to be found in the likes of Douglas Murray, Jordan Peterson, Sam Harris and even Jonathan Pie (as portrayed by Tom Walker).

There are plenty other critics of the RL of course, who often make spot-on, scathing criticisms - Youtube vloggers like Paul Joseph Watson for example, who are watched by far more viewers than the likes of Newsnight - but they're a fair bit to the right of me generally so I'd stop short of endorsing them.

[Matt2112]

Back more on topic: I voted remain on balance but I'm troubled by the clamour for - and the whole concept of - a second Stay/Leave referendum; I think it would set a very undesirable precedent.  Douglas Murray puts it perfectly in this article in The Spectator. (NB. may require registration).

[rufus the dawg]

Brexit, how to loose control, what a mess.

[rufus the dawg]

Back more on topic: I voted remain on balance but I'm troubled by the clamour for - and the whole concept of - a second Stay/Leave referendum; I think it would set a very undesirable precedent.  Douglas Murray puts in perfectly in this article in The Spectator. (NB. may require registration).

I think the problem is way bigger than what he says.


Institutions in the UK have let the public down by allowing out side parties influence the referendum. Both sides of the argument have not been held to account.


Vote leave fundamentally broke democracy by its lying, election fraud, data harvesting and out side foreign money and influence.


Of courses we can leave the EU, but there needs to be a clear defined frame work and can not be done in the time scales put forward by TM interim deal. This framework has never been put forward.


In the end we will not leave the EU though, because we will have to work with them on all hundreds of levels from business to climate change.


The reason the author puts forward for leaving is also peculiar, we will have less influence of the politics of the EU if we leave then if are still part of the EU.


More democracy is democratic.
Less democracy is dictatorship.

[Nick]

Sh*tshow - utter utter farce.

[zoony]

More people voted to leave the EU than in any other election, vote or referendum that has been held in the UK. Whether you agree or disagree with that result, everyone one of those 17 million plus people, me included, are being let down with what our prime minister is trying to push through.

[Nick]

Zoony - ask yourself how Brexit will benefit you personally.

[DavidL]

So the liar that resides in No.10 is to now see if they are also liars that base themselves in Brussels (I think we already know the answer)
Who on earth does she seek counsel from? She's making John Major look like a good PM.

[döm]

Thanks Matt for explaining regressive left. I probably fall into that category as based on your posts on here I always assumed you were slightly to the right of centre!

[Slim]

So the liar that resides in No.10 is to now see if they are also liars that base themselves in Brussells (I think we already know the answer)
Who on earth does she seek counsel from? She's making John Major look like a good PM.

Fascinating situation. So Andrew Bridgen, my MP, called it right last week.

She's going to go back to Brussels, and insist that they concede ground on the "backstop" nonsense. Ironically, losing the vote in the Commons would have given her a stronger hand there.
But I think she's bought herself a bit more time. One possibility is that she thinks that losing the vote would provoke a few more letters to Graham Brady, and perhaps he's even had a quiet word and told her she can only afford another two or three.
On the other hand - forcing a leadership election could be a dangerous gamble for them, because under party rules she couldn't be forced into another one for another year if it fails.
There's some talk of a vote of no confidence in the government being called. She wouldn't lose that. None of the rebel Tory MPs, nor our good friends in the DUP would play the opposition parties' game on that one. Forcing a general election is no easy matter; under the Fixed Term Parliaments act a two-thirds majority in the Commons is needed.

Granted she is in something of an impossible situation but she was naive to think she'd get away with her betrayal of the voters.
We need a new national leader who will approach and deliver Brexit as the beautiful, golden opportunity that it is -  not someone who will pander to the losing side in the defining political question of our time. For me, that's Boris but perhaps Dominic Raab could step up to the plate. I feel Michael Gove has pissed on his chips to a degree.

[DavidL]

The only reason I can think that she did not go to Brussels having been defeated in Parliament was to save her own skin. Let's see if the EU can adhere to their promise that there is no amending the deal. However, if that's not the case, I don't think they will allow themselves to be totally humiliated by 'meaningfully' altering the backstop. Can't see them giving her enough to get it over the line. The whole sorry saga has been an abdication of responsibility by our servants in Westminster. In two and a half years  they should have made that 'cliff-edge' negotiable by a blind pensioner on a mobility scooter. Fascinating stuff indeed.
As bad as it is, at least our government's policies aren't being dictated by the mob, as in France 

[Bisto]

Whatever the outcome a vote of no confidence looks almost inevitable with yet another coalition looking the most likely outcome; this time, possibly, with the SNP siding with Labour and perhaps even the LibDems...it might even prove to be a good short term tactical outcome for the Tories; get rid of weak leadership, regroup, consolidate, be the opposition that Labour have abjectly failed to be and in all probability coast to a landslide victory within the next four years and, as long as they avoid any major scandals and feck ups, rule for a generation by default as Labour takes its eye completely off the ball and tears itself apart.