Brexit watch

Started by Nick, October 20, 2016, 17:02:39 pm

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döm

Quote from: DavidL on April 05, 2017, 07:18:00 am
'Luck' is not involved in the failure of the euro. Tying a number of vastly disparate economies to a single currency was foolish. Nothing represents the EU's blind devotion to their federalist dogma better.



Any more disparate than a farming community in Snowdonia or a fishing port in Co Down and the City of London ? Perhaps the UK should split too?
You can check out any time you like but you can never leave!

Slim

I can't see a farming community in Snowdonia wanting to mint their own currency and go it alone, somehow.

NeilP


Slim

It's just more of the same isn't it? For every one of those there's one of these:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/09/06/why-london-will-be-an-economic-powerhouse-after-brexit/

Nice to see that first image though, just round the corner from my first job in London at Sakura Bank.

döm

April 14, 2017, 09:46:24 am #964 Last Edit: April 14, 2017, 09:51:17 am by döm

That Telegraph piece says the research was carried out "well before" the referendum.  What happened to  it ? Did it get lost behind the sofa or something.  Very odd.

I Thought the NY times article was presented beautifully


Meanwhile the Irish believe that the UK brexit team are beginning to realise that Brexit will prove to be "an act of great self harm"...


http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/british-government-realises-brexit-is-a-mistake-official-says-1.3048046


You can check out any time you like but you can never leave!

NeilP

there'll be a GE before we leave I'm certain

DavidL

Quote from: NeilP on April 14, 2017, 12:28:09 pm
there'll be a GE before we leave I'm certain
Increased Tory majority then, I'll wager

Slim

Quote from: NeilP on April 14, 2017, 12:28:09 pm
there'll be a GE before we leave I'm certain


Brexit is already assured, an early election would make it doubly so. Especially if we get the boundary changes in first.

Slim

Quote from: döm on April 14, 2017, 09:46:24 am
That Telegraph piece says the research was carried out "well before" the referendum.  What happened to  it ? Did it get lost behind the sofa or something.  Very odd.

I Thought the NY times article was presented beautifully

Meanwhile the Irish believe that the UK brexit team are beginning to realise that Brexit will prove to be "an act of great self harm"...

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/british-government-realises-brexit-is-a-mistake-official-says-1.3048046


Though I'm sure there are elements of the UK government that would have preferred to remain, this is in essence yet more of the same Private Fraseresque doom-mongering. I think it will be instructive and entertaining to revisit these old pieces in a few years' time.

Over my lifetime, my own judgement with respect to politics has tended to be vindicated handsomely time and again, while the judgement of those who have disagreed with me emphatically, especially on the Left, has been shown wanting.

döm

Quote from: Slim on April 14, 2017, 15:41:16 pm
Though I'm sure there are elements of the UK government that would have preferred to remain, this is in essence yet more of the same Private Fraseresque doom-mongering. I think it will be instructive and entertaining to revisit these old pieces in a few years' time.

Over my lifetime, my own judgement with respect to politics has tended to be vindicated handsomely time and again, while the judgement of those who have disagreed with me emphatically, especially on the Left, has been shown wanting.



That must be very comforting. I wish I could say the same about my beliefs. But that will never stop arguing with what I believe to be right and wrong.
You can check out any time you like but you can never leave!

Slim

Quote from: döm on April 14, 2017, 15:57:43 pm

That must be very comforting. I wish I could say the same about my beliefs. But that will never stop arguing with what I believe to be right and wrong.


Would be good though if you'd be open-minded enough to moderate or modify your beliefs when they're shown to be wrong.

Looks like some people have changed their mind:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/15/support-brexit-hits-five-month-high-55-per-cent-uk-population/

Good for them.

DavidL

April 16, 2017, 08:39:37 am #971 Last Edit: April 16, 2017, 08:45:35 am by DavidL
Quote from: Slim on April 16, 2017, 00:05:33 am
Would be good though if you'd be open-minded enough to moderate or modify your beliefs when they're shown to be wrong.


You may have been making a general point. In terms of Brexit, I think a lot of people will be doggedly persistent in maintaining their own positions long after the event. I say this because it will be hard to define success, for a lot of Remainers anyway. There will always be an element of 'what if' in terms of maintaining that, within the EU, we would have been equally or more successful. Of course, failure will be easier to judge (in economic terms) but Brexiteers will hold on to the 'self-determination' argument regardless.

döm

April 16, 2017, 09:49:25 am #972 Last Edit: April 16, 2017, 10:10:07 am by döm
Quote from: Slim on April 16, 2017, 00:05:33 am
Would be good though if you'd be open-minded enough to moderate or modify your beliefs when they're shown to be wrong.

Looks like some people have changed their mind:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/15/support-brexit-hits-five-month-high-55-per-cent-uk-population/

Good for them.



If that were to happen I would. So far nothing has happened to make me believe that the UK Government has done anything but create huge damage to the country for petty internal political reasons
You can check out any time you like but you can never leave!

Bisto

April 16, 2017, 12:23:58 pm #973 Last Edit: April 16, 2017, 12:40:19 pm by Bisto
I'm speaking only for myself here, but I suspect it may well be a position held by many other Remain voters....I might have been able to come to terms with the Brexit vote if it had been a legitimate mandate given by the majority; but we all know that it was a referendum that was conceived and delivered in gross ignorance and bad conscience, the full consequences of which were never set out, and indeed could never have been known without the benefit of a working Crystal Ball! For the then PM to expect and enable the electorate to take such a monumental gamble with the direct futures of 4 Nations merely in order to placate his own Right wing backbenchers and attempt to emasculate UKIP was the act of a coward, a traitor and a Fool whose fortune and future was already secured and innoculated against the far reaching, negative, damaging and potentially devastating consequences inherent in the Brexit vote. So he fell on his sword...Boo fecking hoo! So what?! Is he really any less wealthy now than he was picking up a PMs salary? What a complete and utter Jeremy Hunt!


I understand the arguement of those Remain voters who now say; "lets get on with it, negotiate the best terms and make the best of it" because it seems we have no choice, and to do something 'positive' is better than just being bitter and wringing your hands; but, do you really think PMA and a 'can do attitude' will save the UK economies from the changed post EEU realities that will dominate and dictate how we Trade, and with whom, or protect Sterling from vultures like Saros?!
No good deed goes unpunished!

No amount of anxiety can change the future. No amount of regret can change the past.

Slim

Quote from: Bisto on April 16, 2017, 12:23:58 pm
I'm speaking only for myself here, but I suspect it may well be a position held by many other Remain voters....I might have been able to come to terms with the Brexit vote if it had been a legitimate mandate given by the majority; but we all know that it was a referendum that was conceived and delivered in gross ignorance and bad conscience


We really don't know that; indeed I'm certain that it wasn't. Both sides had months to make their case. Whether or not it was actually the best decision, it has nonetheless delivered an utterly legitimate mandate. And in any case the remoaning has not stopped for a second since the result came in and if the polls are to be believed, the majority still wish to leave the EU.

But you put it quite well yourself - the Prime Minister enabled the electorate to take what you see as a gamble. They didn't have to, they were warned by the leaderships of three of the four main parties that it was an unwarranted gamble, but they (not the UK government, as Dom claims) chose to take that step - and we are surely entitled to one say every four decades or so in who governs us.