Brexit watch

Started by Nick, October 20, 2016, 18:02:39 pm

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NeilP

I'm surprised you just don't boycott the supermarkets then if they're a root cause?

Right, let's start with Sainsbury's..... er hold on a moment.

DavidL

Quote from: NeilP on February 19, 2017, 16:42:11 pm
I'm surprised you just don't boycott the supermarkets then if they're a root cause?

Right, let's start with Sainsbury's..... er hold on a moment.
Not the supermarkets per se, just (big) business in general ...and the government of course. All addicted to cheap labour.
Not sure Sainsbury's would notice if I boycotted them tbh.

NeilP

Not the big business that dominate the FTSE 100/250 indices tho? I admire the philosophy of getting a fair days reward for a days efforts but those days seem well gone in this modern age where the rich get richer...etc

DavidL

Quote from: NeilP on February 19, 2017, 17:37:57 pm
Not the big business that dominate the FTSE 100/250 indices tho? I admire the philosophy of getting a fair days reward for a days efforts but those days seem well gone in this modern age where the rich get richer...etc
The problem is that a 'fair days pay' means different things to different people based on their country of origin. The politicos have distorted the labour market with their unwise decision to open it up to 'all comers'. Thank Bliar and his cronies for that.

NeilP

well EU migration was 70,000 in 2010 so Blair and his cronies can't be responsible for the current figure of almost 4x this number. Yet non EU migration over the last 10 years has probably been around 2x the EU lot.... they can't all be students?


https://fullfact.org/immigration/eu-migration-and-uk/

Nick

Spent my working life "Exporting" for the Uk , getting and failing to get business all around the word. With an isolationist USA and Brexit times look bleak for the future. While we may get a short term boost from the exchange rate we know raw materials are now 20% more expensive, add onto that increased duty on raw material post Brexit and additional duty on re-exported products and we become uncompetitive very quickly. The solution to sell more to China and India isn't a solution, the playing fields aren't  level.
The automotive supply chain into Europe is very specialised, if a European customer is lost it doesn't mean there is another waiting in Australia, they just don't exist outside the refined supply chains.
Everybody's got to evalate from the norm.

DavidL

February 19, 2017, 19:15:20 pm #636 Last Edit: February 20, 2017, 15:00:06 pm by DavidL
Quote from: NeilP on February 19, 2017, 18:13:08 pm
well EU migration was 70,000 in 2010 so Blair and his cronies can't be responsible for the current figure of almost 4x this number. Yet non EU migration over the last 10 years has probably been around 2x the EU lot.... they can't all be students?


https://fullfact.org/immigration/eu-migration-and-uk/
It was regrettable that the coalition government and then Cameron's government decided to follow Bliar's lead when it came to immigration. It's a fact that control of non-EU immigration has been a 'blind-spot' for the last few administrations for some reason. The liberal elites that make up most of our ruling classes seem to think that the UK should provide opportunities for everyone, wherever they come from.

DavidL

Quote from: döm on February 17, 2017, 19:48:56 pm
Unilever and Vauxhall. 1st major industrial casualties of Brexit?
Not Unilever. Kraft-Heinz have today withdrawn their pursuit of a merger. Good news for Marmite lovers as it's now likely to remain unadulterated, unlike Cadbury's chocolate.

NeilP

So Warren Buffett's fortune was briefly boosted by another $5.7bn purely on his personal stake in Kraft Heinz, whose shares rose 10%, while Unilever shares rose 13.4% to a record high.... smells fishy

DavidL

Quote from: NeilP on February 19, 2017, 20:01:51 pm
So Warren Buffett's fortune was briefly boosted by another $5.7bn purely on his personal stake in Kraft Heinz, whose shares rose 10%, while Unilever shares rose 13.4% to a record high.... smells fishy
That's stock markets, I'm afraid  >:(

Slim

Quote from: NeilP on February 19, 2017, 12:11:04 pm
I recommend those who haven't read the transcript of Blair's speech, ignore who the speaker was and challenge the words themselves.


Purely on the content, it's despicable. Where does it end, this right to change people's minds following a referendum? And if it turns out that they have changed their minds, shall we then have a third, so that those who wish to leave the EU can asset that the Remainers campaigned dishonestly (certainly, they did the first time) and  persuade them to change it back again? Where does it end? Who gets to say which of the who-knows-how-many subsequent referenda is the final word? Should we have a rule that you win when you get the result you want at three referenda in a row?

It's rather hard, isn't it, to escape the conclusion that Tony will only accept one result as legitimate, and not coincidentally, that's when it falls in line with the way he happens to have voted himself.

It's simply not practicable to hold a new referendum every few months because one side happened to lose. Because one side will always lose, that's the way they work.

The Remainers had ample opportunity to make their case, and find fault with the case to leave. The government, the official opposition, the BBC and the Lib Dems were all on their side. They still failed, and that's it - the matter is settled.

Apart from the basic disrespect for democracy I also find what he said dishonest. He claims that we didn't know the "true terms", but as far as I can tell all the controversy arises from us leaving the single market, which prominent campaigners on both sides, including the Prime Minister and the Chancellor of the Exchequer made clear was inevitable.

He also claims that Philip Hammond described the prospect of leaving the single market as "catastrophic". But in fact what he was referring to losing access to the single market, not the same thing and not an inevitable consequence of it, either.

Fortunately very few people these days ascribe any great credibility to what he has to say.

Interestingly, according to someone from a polling organisation who contributed to a 5 Live programme I listened to last week, support for Brexit has remained constant since the referendum, at about the same level (52% vs 48%). The much vaunted Leaver remorse supposed to have taken place immediately following the referendum didn't really happen. People have changed their minds, but that's been bi-directional - as many remainers now want to leave as leavers who would prefer now to remain. Given that the sky didn't fall in in the predicated manner, I'm not surprised.

Also, a majority of remainers think we should respect the referendum result and leave.




döm

The fact that the most recent (2015) Conservative Party Manifesto stated its firm support for the single market, anyone who voted in the referendum would have assumed that they would have done all they could to remain in it
You can check out any time you like but you can never leave!

döm

February 20, 2017, 16:40:10 pm #642 Last Edit: February 20, 2017, 16:52:23 pm by döm
Quote from: DavidL on February 19, 2017, 16:34:13 pm
Food prices have been falling for years. As with interest rates we have become accustomed to these unnatural economic conditions. 'Real' food prices and interest rates will return, possibly due to the devaluation of sterling or some other reason. Of course, a more welcome reason for food price inflation would be the supermarkets paying their workers decent wages. Unfortunately with a continuous supply of cheap labour from Eastern Europe that's unlikely to happen .....until we have a sensible immigration policy.



And yet those retail immigrants from Europe, Lidl and Aldi, manage to provide their workers with better rates of pay than the home-grown supermarkets.  Weird !
You can check out any time you like but you can never leave!

Slim

Quote from: döm on February 20, 2017, 15:15:44 pm
The fact that the most recent (2015) Conservative Party Manifesto stated its firm support for the single market, anyone who voted in the referendum would have assumed that they would have done all they could to remain in it


They did, by attempting to get us to vote Remain. But as you know, that didn't work.

döm

Quote from: Slim on February 20, 2017, 17:18:12 pm
They did, by attempting to get us to vote Remain. But as you know, that didn't work.



I missed that clause in the manifesto
You can check out any time you like but you can never leave!