Brexit watch

Started by Nick, October 20, 2016, 18:02:39 pm

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DavidL

December 06, 2016, 22:45:59 pm #300 Last Edit: December 06, 2016, 23:28:23 pm by DavidL
UK services sector grew at its fastest rate for ten months in November. Other good news: last month's rise in retail sales was 1.3% compared with 0.7% a year ago; car sales up 2.9% with record number (2.514m) of vehicles registered from January to November.
Makes me think that there would've been a more comfortable win for 'Leave' had the Remain side not used threats of immediate economic doom to scare people out of voting to leave the EU.

Nïckslïkk2112

Quote from: DavidL on December 06, 2016, 19:59:58 pm
There's only one strand to the EU's approach and that is to keep the EU together....at any cost.

And that's what will be the end of it.
If we'd been admitted in the early days - and been serious about it -  there might have been a more pragmatic EU. It'll never happen now though, the project must be seen through to the end, no matter what the cost.
If we've got to the point where the UK is on the edge of falling apart, what chance for an EU?
Legend in my own Mind


DavidL

December 08, 2016, 11:37:47 am #302 Last Edit: December 08, 2016, 11:56:16 am by DavidL
So, no surprise that EU-loving national treasure, Ken Clarke, stuck to his principles and voted against triggering Article 50 by the end of March in Parliament yesterday but what to make of that whining self-promoter Anna Soubry? Lost her nerve and backed the government, afterall.
Of, course, the fact that she has an 8% majority in Broxtowe and her constituents voted Leave by a majority of 10% probably had nothing to do with it - 'Bottler'
The government should now withdraw their appeal and stand down those eleven wig-wearing procrastinatinors and save the country some money.

Bez

Quote from: Moving Target on December 06, 2016, 10:55:19 am
What was their alternative in 2010? Coalition with an exhausted New Labour would not have resulted in a majority, at a time when the economy was close to falling off a cliff. Stability was needed - the Lib Dems provided it, and the deficit reduction plan came from their Danny Alexander.


Right now, the Richmond result has ended the possibility of a snap election. If just twenty Tory pro-Remain seats fell to the Lib Dems, surfing the wave of anger from the 48%, the Tories would lose their majority.


Maybe if they'd remained true to their ideals they would be in a better position...the country certainly didn't think that what they decided to do was worth voting for in the next election....
RC1.1 abd g/n 11/0/bcd/tG PeW/- ~600 x 0 61%

Bez

Quote from: DavidL on December 06, 2016, 22:45:59 pm
UK services sector grew at its fastest rate for ten months in November. Other good news: last month's rise in retail sales was 1.3% compared with 0.7% a year ago; car sales up 2.9% with record number (2.514m) of vehicles registered from January to November.
Makes me think that there would've been a more comfortable win for 'Leave' had the Remain side not used threats of immediate economic doom to scare people out of voting to leave the EU.


There could be all sorts of other reasons for this...the increase in car sales has been put down to terrible interest rates, so people are thinking that they may as well spend as save. No doubt much of that spending is financed by credit further increasing the national debt

I still reckon that IF the referendum was re-run it would be a "remain" landslide....
RC1.1 abd g/n 11/0/bcd/tG PeW/- ~600 x 0 61%

döm

Quote from: DavidL on December 08, 2016, 11:37:47 am
So, no surprise that EU-loving national treasure, Ken Clarke, stuck to his principles and voted against triggering Article 50 by the end of March in Parliament yesterday but what to make of that whining self-promoter Anna Soubry? Lost her nerve and backed the government, afterall.
Of, course, the fact that she has an 8% majority in Broxtowe and her constituents voted Leave by a majority of 10% probably had nothing to do with it - 'Bottler'
The government should now withdraw their appeal and stand down those eleven wig-wearing procrastinatinors and save the country some money.



she is representing the wishes of the majority of her constituents, it's what I would expect all MPs to do on this matter.


Interesting to see how the by-election pans out tonight.  The Lib-Dems were able to wipe out a huge Tory majority in a strong remain area.  Let's see what UKIP can do to the Tories in a strong Brexit constituency. At least how much of that large majority can they eat into
You can check out any time you like but you can never leave!

DavidL

Quote from: Bez on December 08, 2016, 12:14:44 pm

I still reckon that IF the referendum was re-run it would be a "remain" landslide....
;D
Your view, of course, is valid but I disagree. Mine is that it would be nearer 60/40 to leave, based on the fact that the immediate and considerable economic damage that was promised by the Remainers was hogwash and everyone, including petrified (reluctant) remain voters can see that as a matter of fact.

döm

Quote from: DavidL on December 08, 2016, 11:37:47 am
So, no surprise that EU-loving national treasure, Ken Clarke, stuck to his principles and voted against triggering Article 50 by the end of March in Parliament yesterday but what to make of that whining self-promoter Anna Soubry? Lost her nerve and backed the government, afterall.
Of, course, the fact that she has an 8% majority in Broxtowe and her constituents voted Leave by a majority of 10% probably had nothing to do with it - 'Bottler'
The government should now withdraw their appeal and stand down those eleven wig-wearing procrastinatinors and save the country some money.



should have accepted the result in the first place and not gone to the Supreme Court
You can check out any time you like but you can never leave!

döm

Quote from: DavidL on December 06, 2016, 21:23:31 pm
They can certainly do without losing one of their largest contributors of finance. Unless they make some pretty fundamental changes (which I don't believe they're prepared to make) they are toast.
They could start by allowing certain members to remove themselves, in an orderly fashion, from the eurozone. Secondly, place some kind of embargo on free movement until separate economies are more balanced (never?). Thirdly, devise some way of making the commission more accountable ( by comprising elected members). Finally, get to grips with the profligate over-spending and lack of fiscal discipline (start by doing away with Strasbourg).
Address some of those issues and they might pull it back from the brink.

I did reply to this earlier but it didn't post so I'll try again.


The UK's net contribution is approx 5 billion out of a budget of 145 billion.  Yes it will hurt a little but it is certainly not insurmountable.


Leaving the Eurozone ?  I don't think the pain of doing so would be worth any beneit that would derive from such a move.  The Euro zone took decades to put in place and removing those structures would be at a huge economic cost.

Embargo on free movement?  That will never happen and I don't believe it needs to.  Freedom of movment is an effective mechanism in making seperate economies more balanced anyway.


Yes getting rid of waste is always a good idea and having 2 parliaments is unnecessary.  I do think the whole wasteful EU thing is over-played though.It is no more wasteful than any national governrment
You can check out any time you like but you can never leave!

DavidL

Quote from: döm on December 08, 2016, 14:56:04 pm

The UK's net contribution is approx 5 billion out of a budget of 145 billion. 
You're about £3.5bn short in your approximation (just under 40, 200-bed hospitals)
https://fullfact.org/europe/our-eu-membership-fee-55-million/

döm

December 08, 2016, 15:24:26 pm #310 Last Edit: December 08, 2016, 15:28:04 pm by döm
Quote from: DavidL on December 08, 2016, 15:13:49 pm
You're about £3.5bn short in your approximation (just under 40, 200-bed hospitals)
https://fullfact.org/europe/our-eu-membership-fee-55-million/



Thanks for the correction.  The EU will still be able to handle that kind of loss I would imagine.  I wonder how many 200 bed hospitals  will be forgone by the UK in leaving the EU ?



You can check out any time you like but you can never leave!

döm

I think Bez could well be right.....


You can check out any time you like but you can never leave!

DavidL

Quote from: döm on December 08, 2016, 16:44:23 pm
I think Bez could well be right.....



Possibly the biggest load of cobblers ever posted on here

Nick

Why is BJ still Foreign Secretary? Again he has been reprimanded by the government for making spurious statements (Saudi this time), if he is not towing the governmental line what on earth is he doing?
Everybody's got to evalate from the norm.

DavidL

Quote from: Nick on December 08, 2016, 20:01:33 pm
Why is BJ still Foreign Secretary? Again he has been reprimanded by the government for making spurious statements (Saudi this time), if he is not towing the governmental line what on earth is he doing?
He's a buffoon who should never have been given the job in the first place - poor judgement by Mrs May.