Brexit watch

Started by Nick, October 20, 2016, 17:02:39 pm

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döm and 4 Guests are viewing this topic.

döm

Quote from: DavidL on November 06, 2016, 14:47:43 pm
Anyone?



Perhaps the instigators of the referendum should have thought about that before hand. How the process would work from beginning to end. How to avoid this mess.
You can check out any time you like but you can never leave!

DavidL

Quote from: döm on November 06, 2016, 16:22:16 pm

Perhaps the instigators of the referendum should have thought about that before hand. How the process would work from beginning to end. How to avoid this mess.
But this particular mess would not exist if the referendum result was accepted by all.
(No one has an answer to my question it seems)

Slim

Quote from: Moving Target on November 06, 2016, 13:45:27 pm
You don't think that calling judges 'enemies of the people' for upholding the law regarding Parliamentary democracy is a fascist thing to do?


That's right, I don't. It has exactly nothing to do with Fascism (unless you see the judges in that light, but I think that would be a little strong).

Chris Quartly

Quote from: DavidL on November 06, 2016, 16:33:22 pm
But this particular mess would not exist if the referendum result was accepted by all.
(No one has an answer to my question it seems)



It isn't a question about how it is accepted, it's a question of what is law, it isn't something you can pick and choose.
Last.fm playlist of previous 7 days:<br /><br /><br />Q's Comps<br /><br />Some Other Suckers Parade

Nick

Here's an (un)subltle story from the daily mail, terrible story of 3 people being killed by a Polish lorry driver on a mobile. Why the need to point out the driver was Polish, would they say it was due to a Northern Irish or Scottish driver in the headline?

Can't you feel the lurch to the far right?
Everybody's got to evalate from the norm.

DavidL

Quote from: döm on November 06, 2016, 16:22:16 pm

Perhaps the instigators of the referendum should have thought about that before hand. How the process would work from beginning to end. How to avoid this mess.
Don't you think the architects of the EU should have given that a little more thought when they devised article 50? No surprise that the process of one state leaving the bloc is as ill-thought out as many other aspects.
"Leave, you say. Leave? How very dare you!"

DavidL

Quote from: Chris Quartly on November 06, 2016, 16:56:15 pm

It isn't a question about how it is accepted, it's a question of what is law, it isn't something you can pick and choose.
If the ruling was necessary, can you answer my previous question?

DavidL

Quote from: Nick on November 06, 2016, 16:57:02 pm
Here's an (un)subltle story from the daily mail, terrible story of 3 people being killed by a Polish lorry driver on a mobile. Why the need to point out the driver was Polish, would they say it was due to a Northern Irish or Scottish driver in the headline?

Can't you feel the lurch to the far right?
::)
The BBC, The Mirror and the Independent all thought it relevant to report that he was Polish.

Nick

Reported he was Polish in the text but not a screaming headline. From his name you could have a good guess at his nationality, the crime was using a mobile while driving, not being Polish.
Everybody's got to evalate from the norm.

döm

Quote from: DavidL on November 06, 2016, 16:59:02 pm
Don't you think the architects of the EU should have given that a little more thought when they devised article 50? No surprise that the process of one state leaving the bloc is as ill-thought out as many other aspects.
"Leave, you say. Leave? How very dare you!"



Very good. I know some in the UK like to blame the EU for everything that goes wrong but to blame it for the UK'S own constitutional mess takes some doing!
You can check out any time you like but you can never leave!

DavidL

November 06, 2016, 18:56:43 pm #175 Last Edit: November 06, 2016, 21:41:53 pm by DavidL
Quote from: DavidL on November 06, 2016, 13:16:11 pm
That's fine but the conundrum remains - on what basis would most MPs vote to trigger article 50 other than their desire for the UK to remain in or leave the EU?
?
Surely some of you who thought this judgement necessary or desirable could answer this for me?

Nïckslïkk2112

Quote from: Nick on November 06, 2016, 17:25:23 pm
Reported he was Polish in the text but not a screaming headline. From his name you could have a good guess at his nationality, the crime was using a mobile while driving, not being Polish.

It was all because British lorry drivers have to sign up to a code of conduct to say they won't use a mobile whilst driving. Something which doesn't apply to foreign drivers, well, foreign drivers driving for foreign haulage companies at any rate.

If you read the M**l you'd know it has the highest respect for the Polish people - so long as they flew in fighter squadrons in WWII. Old Poles Good, New Poles bad...
Legend in my own Mind


Chris Quartly

Quote from: DavidL on November 06, 2016, 17:04:49 pm
If the ruling was necessary, can you answer my previous question?



It seems as if it is necessary, as a matter of process. It really seems irrelevant.


Presumably the MPs are voting in accordance with their constituents (who voted them in, and could vote them out), I don't see the problem. It seems a pointless question, there is a process, and people have to accept that, just like people are saying they have to accept the referendum, all part of the process, you don't get to cherry pick when things suit you or not (seems a common occurrence from both sides of the argument).
Last.fm playlist of previous 7 days:<br /><br /><br />Q's Comps<br /><br />Some Other Suckers Parade

Slim

Quote from: Nick on November 06, 2016, 16:57:02 pm
Here's an (un)subltle story from the daily mail, terrible story of 3 people being killed by a Polish lorry driver on a mobile. Why the need to point out the driver was Polish, would they say it was due to a Northern Irish or Scottish driver in the headline?

Can't you feel the lurch to the far right?


If there is a lurch to the far right, it is being driven by the sort of resentment and disaffection which is caused, not alleviated, by people feeling that we don't have control of our own borders - and the spectacle of the political classes trying to frustrate the result of the referendum can only exacerbate it.

DavidL

November 06, 2016, 23:29:28 pm #179 Last Edit: November 06, 2016, 23:59:57 pm by DavidL
Quote from: Chris Quartly on November 06, 2016, 22:17:35 pm

It seems as if it is necessary, as a matter of process. It really seems irrelevant.


Presumably the MPs are voting in accordance with their constituents (who voted them in, and could vote them out), I don't see the problem. It seems a pointless question, there is a process, and people have to accept that, just like people are saying they have to accept the referendum, all part of the process, you don't get to cherry pick when things suit you or not (seems a common occurrence from both sides of the argument).
It's obvious that you don't know how the judgement will be implemented in practical terms then. It's not a pointless question, just a pointless judgement.
Ken Clarke (bless him) has said he will not vote for article 50 to be triggered as he disagrees with it, regardless of how his constituents voted. Many other dishonourable members will probably do the same. So what the MP's vote becomes, is a second referendum on EU membership that disregards the outcome of the first (and the will of the people), demanded by those that cannot accept the result. How very .......EU.
A cabal of shysters such as Clegg and Miliband would do anything to overturn the result (or stitch up the majority by ensuring we remain in the single market, and all it entails) and this is part of that . Had the law not been tested by such people, the PM would have triggered article 50 and got on with negotiations. Serves no useful purpose but to attempt to subvert the will of the majority.


Perhaps someone else can provide more clarity on why this judgement was necessary in order to implement the electorate's wish to leave the EU?