Brexit watch

Started by Nick, October 20, 2016, 18:02:39 pm

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DavidL

April 17, 2020, 00:47:17 am #4050 Last Edit: April 17, 2020, 15:49:11 pm by DavidL
Covid-19 continues to shine a very bright light on the illusion that solidarity among member states is an unimpeachable benefit of the EU.
President Ursula von der Leyen issues a grovelling apology to Italy which is sure to go down well with Italians whilst the eurozone countries continue to refuse to bankroll their country.
Macron thinks it's serious and could cause the EU to unravel. Sooner rather than later would be best for all, I would suggest. That would be less likely to involve tanks and troops!

döm

Keep believing David!
When the truth offends we lie and lie until we can longer remember it is even there. But it is still there. Every lie we tell incurs a debt to the truth. Sooner or later, that debt is repaid

DavidL

April 17, 2020, 01:20:13 am #4052 Last Edit: April 17, 2020, 01:24:39 am by DavidL
Quote from: döm on April 17, 2020, 01:06:39 amKeep believing David!
The evidence continues to mount that it's nothing more than a dysfunctional money pit.
The writing's on the wall, döm!

döm

Quote from: DavidL on April 17, 2020, 01:20:13 amThe evidence continues to mount that it's nothing more than a dysfunctional money pit.
The writing's on the wall, döm!
Not at all - its been written off countless times before - during the last financial crisis for one. If my memory serves I read on here that the Euro was finished.  There will be stresses and strains with 27 independent nations having different interests but as long as coherency in thought prevails, the mutual interests will always supersede the differences.
When the truth offends we lie and lie until we can longer remember it is even there. But it is still there. Every lie we tell incurs a debt to the truth. Sooner or later, that debt is repaid

DavidL

Quote from: döm on April 17, 2020, 11:38:33 amNot at all - its been written off countless times before - during the last financial crisis for one. If my memory serves I read on here that the Euro was finished.  There will be stresses and strains with 27 independent nations having different interests but as long as coherency in thought prevails, the mutual interests will always supersede the differences.
Ah, one big difference now though. One, fairly important, member has left. At the time of the financial crisis that would've been inconceivable. 
As to 'coherency in thought', it's coherency in action that is more important...and that is often what the EU lacks. Never been a time when member states are acting in a more unilateral fashion or being left to pick up the pieces for themselves.
I think you're the one that needs to keep the faith!

döm

Quote from: DavidL on April 17, 2020, 12:24:27 pmAh, one big difference now though. One, fairly important, member has left. At the time of the financial crisis that would've been inconceivable.
As to 'coherency in thought', it's coherency in action that is more important...and that is often what the EU lacks. Never been a time when member states are acting in a more unilateral fashion or being left to pick up the pieces for themselves.
I think you're the one that needs to keep the faith!
so Individual Governments do have leeway and ability to act on their own whilst remaining members of the EU!  Who knew ?

When push comes to shove agreement will be reached.  As long as logic prevails!
When the truth offends we lie and lie until we can longer remember it is even there. But it is still there. Every lie we tell incurs a debt to the truth. Sooner or later, that debt is repaid

DavidL

Quote from: döm on April 17, 2020, 13:15:13 pmso Individual Governments do have leeway and ability to act on their own whilst remaining members of the EU!  Who knew ?

When push comes to shove agreement will be reached.  As long as logic prevails!
Logic?? A single currency for disparate economies?? ;D ;)

DavidL

France and Spain's GDP figures are worse than analysts expected. The Spanish will be crippled by the loss of tourism this year. By Xmas their country will be on its knees.

döm

Quote from: DavidL on April 30, 2020, 13:01:46 pmFrance and Spain's GDP figures are worse than analysts expected. The Spanish will be crippled by the loss of tourism this year. By Xmas their country will be on its knees.
The EU has a huge job on its hands to stay together and fight the factionalist groups who would rather it split up.   A unified approach will be much more beneficial in fighting both the Coronavirus and the economic fall out, than independent nations trying to manage alone.  Done properly and it will come out the other side stronger than before!
When the truth offends we lie and lie until we can longer remember it is even there. But it is still there. Every lie we tell incurs a debt to the truth. Sooner or later, that debt is repaid

BasspedalMan

I personally wouldn't bet against the EU.

Once the dust settles and people realise that dogma and protectionism for the super-rich were the ONLY reasons for a campaign to leave in the first place the landscape will look different.

Coronavirus will give the Government just the excuse they needed to put that £350m per week for the NHS into other, likely private, contracts instead.

The payback for people like Aaron Banks, Jacob Rees-Mogg and all the Zero Tax Billionaires far outweighs any tangible benefit to our society. Indeed the outlook for the poorest is likely very bleak.

The trouble with the jingoistic capitalism that has become so popular is that it ignores the need for a firm foundation in our society. 

As we have seen through this crisis it is the lowest paid people who are now the heroes. Where would we be without care workers and cleaners? How many of the NHS staff being lauded as Front Line Heroes are actually immigrants? Why can't farmers get British people to harvest their crops? We have a HUGE crisis of ATTITUDE in the UK and Brexit bought into its' worst proclivities.

The Rich want a no-deal Brexit so they can pick over the carcass of our economy and make hay later. Unless you are upper middle-class and earning a good salary this Government has done and will do nothing for you.

It's very sad actually.
Ok, I'll join in...

1981 x 1
1983 x 4
1988 x 2
1992 x 2
1996 x 2
1997 x 5
2002 x 3
2004 x 7
2007 x 7
2011 x 3
2013 x 3

DavidL

Quote from: döm on April 30, 2020, 13:13:06 pmThe EU has a huge job on its hands to stay together and fight the factionalist groups who would rather it split up.  A unified approach will be much more beneficial in fighting both the Coronavirus and the economic fall out, than independent nations trying to manage alone.  Done properly and it will come out the other side stronger than before!
Keep believing dom!

DavidL

Quote from: BasspedalMan on April 30, 2020, 13:29:15 pmWhy can't farmers get British people to harvest their crops? 
Because £1 is worth far more to an immigrant than to a British person. Simple economics

rufus the dawg

Quote from: DavidL on April 17, 2020, 13:49:22 pmLogic?? A single currency for disparate economies?? ;D ;)
USA have one currency and also act in a state by state interest over riding Tump, Obama etc
Bond, Rufus, Dash and Blaize.

rufus the dawg

Quote from: DavidL on April 30, 2020, 13:37:46 pmBecause £1 is worth far more to an immigrant than to a British person. Simple economics
I thought all thought all these furloughed people were/are going to do it. All those brexit supporting types from hup norph!
Bond, Rufus, Dash and Blaize.

DavidL

Quote from: rufus the dawg on April 30, 2020, 14:08:58 pmI thought all thought all these furloughed people were/are going to do it. All those brexit supporting types from hup norph!
A lot have applied apparently but, of course, the farmers would rather have immigrant workers do the job. I assume because they feel that they will get a better day's work from them, partly because that employment to an immigrant worker is (far) more valuable.