Brexit watch

Started by Nick, October 20, 2016, 18:02:39 pm

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Slim

Quote from: rufus the dawg on September 16, 2019, 22:56:36 pmSlim I have to disagree with you. The mess TM and BJ have made is causing massive resentment towards the Conservative party, politics and politicians in general.  A final say referendum is a way forward on a deal that BJ comes up with. Considering he himself has changed in mind many times in the way he voted for TM deal and is now trying to get a new deal
Theresa made a mess; Boris so far is doing a very good job - in very difficult circumstances - of cleaning it up. The polls don't really support your view about the Tories being the object of massive resentment; in fact they have gained popularity since Boris took over. There has admittedly been a substantial loss of support to the Brexit Party but those people wouldn't agree with your stance on another referendum.

There is no possible "final say" referendum that the establishment will accept and the fact that the last one was described by both sides as being the final say underlines that. The remain-obsessed political classes will always find another excuse for another referendum until they've frightened people enough to win one, then they'll go back to refusing one for decades like they did before the last one. They are only interested in a democracy that serves their own interests.

Anyway - interesting recent news that Juncker now says that "I think we can have a deal. I am doing everything to have a deal" and Mr Juncker did confirm to Sky News that he was now prepared to get rid of the controversial backstop plan, designed to prevent the return of a hard border between Ireland and Northern Ireland

And this is only happening because we have a firm and resolute Prime Minister who has stood up to their intransigence, and disregarded Parliament's attempts to collapse his negotiating position.

Here's the sticking point though - whatever new deal the EU and Boris might agree (they might well not), it may well not meet with the approval of Farage and the Brexit Party even if it were to scrape through Parliament. And that's a big problem for the Conservative Party, because they need the Brexit Party to call the dogs off in order to have a chance of winning an election with a majority. That may well actually prevent the deal getting through Parliament in itself; and not just the ERG luminaries. There are plenty of Tory MPs from all flavours of the party who will be thinking about their seats and the likelihood of Farage splitting the centre-right vote in their constituencies.

https://news.sky.com/story/jean-claude-juncker-we-can-have-a-deal-and-brexit-will-happen-11814207

DavidL

September 20, 2019, 08:01:56 am #3466 Last Edit: September 20, 2019, 08:05:02 am by DavidL
"We will not alter the withdrawal agreement"
"We are not going to re-negotiate TM's deal"
"We will not change the backstop"

"Well, we might"  ::)

Blinkers

The Letter R

Quote from: DavidL on September 20, 2019, 08:01:56 am"We will not alter the withdrawal agreement"
"We are not going to re-negotiate TM's deal"
"We will not change the backstop"

"Well, we might"  ::)

Blinkers

Blinkers!!!  ;-)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-40667879/eu-trade-deal-easiest-in-human-history

Nïckslïkk2112

Legend in my own Mind


DavidL

Quote from: The Letter R on September 20, 2019, 09:44:37 amBlinkers!!!  ;-)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-40667879/eu-trade-deal-easiest-in-human-history
"The only reason we wouldn't come to a free and open agreement is because politics gets in the way of economics,"

The Letter R

Quote from: DavidL on September 20, 2019, 11:39:58 am"The only reason we wouldn't come to a free and open agreement is because politics gets in the way of economics,"
Maybe we should let economists and not politicians negotiate......but then again we were told not to listen to experts too....

döm

Quote from: DavidL on September 20, 2019, 11:39:58 am"The only reason we wouldn't come to a free and open agreement is because politics gets in the way of economics,"
If it was just about economics, there's no way the UK would have voted to leave in the first place
You can check out any time you like but you can never leave!

DavidL

Quote from: döm on September 20, 2019, 15:14:42 pmIf it was just about economics, there's no way the UK would have voted to leave in the first place
::)
It's certainly not just about economics but negotiating a trade deal, for the most part, is.

döm

Nice tweet here (Dimitry Grozoubinski - former Aussie trade negotiator)

"To be fair, the UK yesterday handed over 3 technical non-papers.

For those unfamiliar with international diplomacy, this is like showing up on the day  your biology Masters thesis is due and handing in an undisected frog"  ;D
You can check out any time you like but you can never leave!

rufus the dawg

Quote from: Slim on September 20, 2019, 01:34:11 amTheresa made a mess; Boris so far is doing a very good job - in very difficult circumstances - of cleaning it up. The polls don't really support your view about the Tories being the object of massive resentment; in fact they have gained popularity since Boris took over. There has admittedly been a substantial loss of support to the Brexit Party but those people wouldn't agree with your stance on another referendum.

There is no possible "final say" referendum that the establishment will accept and the fact that the last one was described by both sides as being the final say underlines that. The remain-obsessed political classes will always find another excuse for another referendum until they've frightened people enough to win one, then they'll go back to refusing one for decades like they did before the last one. They are only interested in a democracy that serves their own interests.

I am utterly bored with brexit but one last time.

You have answered your own question, Brexit party voters, remain voters, labour party voters are resentful with the conservative party.

You say " both sides said this is the final say" fine. The law is that the referendum is advisory, but forget about that lets take what leave said.

Not Leaving the single market, Lie
Norway deal, Lie
Switzerland deal, Lie
£350 million to the NHS, Lie
Canada plus plus mega plus deal, Lie
Roll over all the trade deal from EU, Lie
Easiest deal in the world, Lie
Non of disadvantages and all the advantages of the EU, Lie
No one mentioned the divorce bill either. 39 billion

Its is endless, I mean endless, so where are we, in a big mess.

To bring the country together you need to bring the remain voters along with the leave voters. Remain voters think the referendum was won with a pack of lies and law breaking. Leave voters want to leave and do not care less for the lies. Remember the referendum was about bringing democracy and fairness home.

So what do Leave want? you want to leave the EU, Fine. If you push through with No deal which there is no mandate for or a deal that was not talked about or during the referendum that is going to cause massive resentment. If leavers want to stay out of the EU for the long term you have to bring remain voters along with you Slim. If you do not I predict we will rejoin the EU in the next 10 years. Since 1975 leavers have been building a base to leave the EU, Just think how big the base to rejoin the EU is? Straight away it is massive and this will only build. Because the Facts will come out. Truth is a guiding light.The old leavers are dying and the young want to join the EU.

If BJ gets a deal in 5 weeks, great, but it will be nothing like what was proposed during the referendum so it has no mandate. If he puts this new deal to the electorate and wins he will quash the resentment from people like me and we stay out of the EU in the long term.

Think it through, if BJ puts his deal to the electorate he could win the referendum and at the same time bring the country together because he could get remain voters to vote for his deal. Please remember Slim, BJ and Gove have changed their mind about which deal is best for the UK (TMs, yes/no No deal yes/no and they won the referendum with out any policy or a deal!). Remain voters could vote for his deal because it has all the advantages without any of the disadvantages. Is it ok for BJ and Gove to change their mind but not us the electorate?

I was laughter at by leavers on here when I said if we leave the EU with No deal we will have to accept EU rules to sell in to the EU but also accept Chinese and USA rules to sell to them, clearly this is the case now and no one has explained the advantages of this to me. When we leave the EU with No deal we will eventually sign a deal with the EU and accept their rules to sell to them. If we leave the EU in October with BJs deal that will be the interim deal until we sign a deal and we have to accept their rules to sell in to the EU.

Nïckslïkk2112

Quote from: undefinedThe world of tomorrow is not a world order based on nation states or countries. It is a world order that is based on empires. China, is not a nation, it's a civilisation. India... is not a nation... The US is also an empire, more than a nation... And then finally the Russian federation.

The world of tomorrow is a world of empires in which we Europeans, and you British, can only defend your interests, your way of life, by doing it together, in a European framework and in the European Union.
Thanks Guy Verhofstadt. There in a nutshell is why people vote leave.

Yet even the great foul breathed Europhile gives an implication that the British and Europeans are different. For centuries we have been a refuge for people who want to escape being European. They may not all have been welcomed with open arms to begin with, but they were accepted eventually.
Legend in my own Mind


Nick

Don't think a vote to leave is going to make us a stronger country though, we'll end up being a nation with no global influence whatsoever but doing a nice trade in shortbread, novelty ales, pasties and speciality Teas.
Everybody's got to evalate from the norm.

DavidL

Quote from: Nick on September 22, 2019, 21:55:40 pmDon't think a vote to leave is going to make us a stronger country though, we'll end up being a nation with no global influence whatsoever but doing a nice trade in shortbread, novelty ales, pasties and speciality Teas.
Speculation

Nïckslïkk2112

Quote from: Nick on September 22, 2019, 21:55:40 pmDon't think a vote to leave is going to make us a stronger country though, we'll end up being a nation with no global influence whatsoever but doing a nice trade in shortbread, novelty ales, pasties and speciality Teas.
And what gives us global influence by being in the EU, will all 27/28 member always be singing from the same hymnsheet? Or, if a fully federated EU comes into being it'll just be one of the "Empires" jousting with each other for global domination.

Quotebut doing a nice trade in shortbread, novelty ales, pasties and speciality Teas.
Throw in some Fish and Chips and Pork Pies and that's my kind of world :)


Apparently, the LibDims had a Brexit Bar at their conference and the delegates raced to neck back all the foreign lagers and ignored the British craft ales and ciders. Traitorous vermin.
Legend in my own Mind


döm

Quote from: DavidL on September 22, 2019, 22:30:11 pmSpeculation
I think the word "think" makes that interjection redundant
You can check out any time you like but you can never leave!