Brexit watch

Started by Nick, October 20, 2016, 18:02:39 pm

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Slim

Quote from: döm on August 20, 2019, 11:06:11 amSo the UK is happy to have no border between itself and the EU?  I thought the UK wanted control over its borders?  It wanted to end freedom of movement didn't it?  If there's no border between the North and the Republic, a flight by anyone from anywhere in the EU into Dublin will effectively mean they have free access to anywhere in the UK

If the UK enters into a trade deal with another country which allows for food to be imported of a lower or different standard (chlorinated Chicken or GM food for example) then the EU will have no choice but to impose a border to prevent such food freely passing into the EU.  The only way to prevent this is for the UK and the EU to stay aligned in terms of standards.  Is the UK prepared to do this when it will scupper any chance of a trade deal with the US? 

The UK has no wish, or need to align its standards with those of the EU. If the Republic insists on erecting hard border infrastructure to protect the single market that's its sovereign right, and its own problem.

And yes, the UK will have control of its borders, and will end freedom of movement. There already is a border between the UK and the Republic of Ireland. Just because you can stroll over won't make it legal. If you look at the border between the US and Canada for example, there are a lot of places where you can just walk over without showing a passport.

Good to see that Merkel has seen a bit of sense, and the facade is cracking. All it takes is a firm approach and refusal to take any bullshit.

rufus the dawg

Yes slim. How will we control our border if it is not a hard border, anyone/goods can come through. So we are not controlling our border, are we.

Anyway, you forget, Daniel Hannan said we would stay in the single market.

That is the "will of the people"

Or was it that just another Slogan that is meaningless.

DavidL

The ONS underestimated EU migration to the UK from the EU8 until 2016, sometimes as much as 16%.

rufus the dawg

August 23, 2019, 00:25:39 am #3243 Last Edit: August 23, 2019, 00:49:59 am by rufus the dawg
Ok. You are now saying you don't mind freedom of movement. And obviously we have to accept the EUs regulations to sell in to the EU.

We will have to accept WTO and EU rules/regulations and now you don't free movement and how much is this costing the UK? And you still have not come up with 10 EU laws you don't like that the UK voted against.

Can you now see how genuinely absurd the whole thing is.

I wonder why HS2 might be cancelled?

DavidL

Quote from: rufus the dawg on August 23, 2019, 00:25:39 amOk. You are now saying you don't mind freedom of movement. And obviously we have to accept the EUs regulations to sell in to the EU.

We will have to accept WTO and EU rules/regulations and now you don't free movement and how much is this costing the UK? And you still have not come up with 10 EU laws you don't like that the UK voted against.

Can you now see how genuinely absurd the whole thing is.

I wonder why HS2 might be cancelled?
Sorry, I don't understand your point (I think there may be some words missing/incorrect)
To be clear, free movement of people is not a good thing in my book. Immigration has to be controlled, otherwise it's impossible to manage public services, housing, infrastructure development etc. I mean, before you know it, you may end up with families living in shipping containers.

döm

Quote from: DavidL on August 23, 2019, 01:04:01 amSorry, I don't understand your point (I think there may be some words missing/incorrect)
To be clear, free movement of people is not a good thing in my book. Immigration has to be controlled, otherwise it's impossible to manage public services, housing, infrastructure development etc. I mean, before you know it, you may end up with families living in shipping containers.
Well the UK is doing a singularly bad job at that. For one thing the UK had a right to impose controls on immigration from the newly accessed eastern countries of the EU when they joined. They decided not to bother.

For another immigration is far higher from non EU countries than from the EU.
You can check out any time you like but you can never leave!

DavidL

August 23, 2019, 08:12:01 am #3246 Last Edit: August 23, 2019, 08:23:10 am by DavidL Reason: Addition
Quote from: döm on August 23, 2019, 07:54:00 amWell the UK is doing a singularly bad job at that. For one thing the UK had a right to impose controls on immigration from the newly accessed eastern countries of the EU when they joined. They decided not to bother.
Quite true. I blame Keith Vaz!
Quote from: döm on August 23, 2019, 07:54:00 amFor another immigration is far higher from non EU countries than from the EU.
Sure about that? The ONS screwed those figures up too - overestimating in this case

Bliar's government used freedom of movement as an excuse to drive growth (and to "rub the right's nose in diversity") with no regard to pressure on wages, public services or community cohesion. Regrettably, some of those newcomers to the UK were convicted criminals, but hey, ho. Hopefully, that will never be allowed to happen again.

zoony

Quote from: rufus the dawg on August 22, 2019, 21:54:14 pm.....he wants to be closer though.

I thought we voted to stay in the single market. That is what a CONservative MEP said would happen.

Absolutely nobody is talking about threatening our place in the Single Market

Daniel Hannan MEP


So I am expecting to stay in the single market. That is the will of the people.
I don't know how many times I have to keep going back to it, but the referendum ballot paper said LEAVE or REMAIN, and no mention of anything else.

Nick

I don't know how many times I have to keep going back to it but there is a clear split between leavers who though it meant leave with a deal and others who though to leave with no deal.

I doubt anybody would have voted for the current chaos we are now and will be in.
Everybody's got to evalate from the norm.

Nïckslïkk2112

And there's a split between remainers who think the EU is a blissful fairyland of peace; those who wish to remain but want the EU reformed; those who swallowed the spin of project fear and those who reluctantly voted remain.

I doubt any of them would vote for the EU wide chaos come the next recession which will be exacerbated by too many countries being in a one size fits all currency which doesn't fit all.
Legend in my own Mind


rufus the dawg

This was someones post on the guardian

"An idiots guide to customs
You need to tell Customs what it is, where is it from and what is it worth. From this a % tariff can be looked up and applied and paid accordingly. This is the form to use for exporting goods to the EU.......
The Single Administrative Document for import and export
There are 45 boxes or fields to fill in. It can be sent electronically however it has to be filled in for every item that crosses a border. Trusted traders can do this subject to audits, they get to use the fast checkouts at the supermarket. The rest get in the queue with the trolley shoppers. Be it a fast track or slow track all are required to submit the form.
All have to go through the checkouts. If something is wrong or missing you could hold up those behind you. We have not had to do this for 40 years and many businesses do not have the data to hand, nor staff who can remember how to do it.
Some things to note:
- Country of Origin is not always the UK, it is where the significant value of the item originates. So if 55% from India and 45% UK then the origin is India
- Commodity code....there are thousands to choose from and this sets the tariff when combined with the Country of Origin.
- Customs Value .....how much is it worth hence how much duty to be paid.
The other data is who are you, where are the goods going, weights, etc.
There is no simple solution for businesses or individuals the form must be filled as a customs declaration if the goods are crossing a border. It can be submitted electronically but still has to be created sent and approved before crossing a border.
The beauty of the Customs Union/Single market is we do not have to do this work at all. Hence it is currently frictionless and efficient. Imagine having to do this on borders in continental Europe, or Ireland and Scotland. Just In Time deliveries are very small batches or boxes with more frequent deliveries. The more frequent the deliveries the more declarations required.
Imagine the UK as a supermarket. The goods come off the shelf and have to go through a checkout to be paid for. A customs check requires a checkpoint otherwise you could exit the supermarket without paying.
With 100 miles of land border the integrity of the customs process could be compromised. The sea creates a natural barrier and border. 60% of goods moved to the EU go via Dover. If you choose to go via another port so will many others. Heathrow also handles enormous amounts of cargo. If something is tariff free you still need to declare what it is so customs can verify it is duty free. Laying on more ferries or flights does not solve the queue problem. Like getting on a bus, it is the issuing of the ticket that controls the queue, more buses have to wait behind. We go from a ticketless service to having to pay overnight.
You have 30 days to create a solution without physical checkouts in the supermarket."

rufus the dawg

Quote from: zoony on August 23, 2019, 15:58:33 pmI don't know how many times I have to keep going back to it, but the referendum ballot paper said LEAVE or REMAIN, and no mention of anything else.
Guess what, people voted to leave because they thought it would be an easy deal and that they were fed up of all those nasty EU regulations about Bananas. The lie that Twice Sacked for lying Boris Johnson said.

I know someone who voted to leave because they did not like the Welsh assemble.

DavidL

I know someone that voted Remain because they were told there'd be "immediate and profound" negative economic consequences.  ;D

döm

Quote from: DavidL on August 23, 2019, 18:25:32 pmI know someone that voted Remain because they were told there'd be "immediate and profound" negative economic consequences.  ;D
Who knows? Maybe if the vote had gone for remain there would have been a large upturn in the economy. Brexit stopped that from happening  - the net effect - immediate and profound negative economic consequences 😉
You can check out any time you like but you can never leave!

DavidL

Quote from: döm on August 23, 2019, 19:04:45 pmWho knows? Maybe if the vote had gone for remain there would have been a large upturn in the economy. Brexit stopped that from happening  - the net effect - immediate and profound negative economic consequences 😉
Dremainer