Brexit watch

Started by Nick, October 20, 2016, 18:02:39 pm

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rufus the dawg

Quote from: DavidL on August 14, 2019, 16:43:35 pm.............nope! To think that a nation such as ours does not have the politicians capable of extricating ourselves from such a union is a disgrace. They just don't have the will and that's been clearly displayed from the moment they were given 'wrong' answer to a perfectly adequate question. Arrogant b******s (with a few exceptions) who were more than happy to ask it.
The EU is just a big treaty with other European countries.

Do you want to leave NATO?
Do you want to leave the UN?
Do you want to leave the Convention for the Suppression of the Financing of terrorism (New York, 10.1.2000) ?
Do you want to leave the Convention on the Marking of Plastic Explosives for the Purpose of Detection (Montreal, 1.3.1991) ?

The UK is in endless treaties. Do you want to leave them all? They all affect the UK and you in some way.

Nïckslïkk2112

Quote from: rufus the dawg on August 14, 2019, 12:47:12 pmThen you will be correcting all those false claims that are on the web site.
How?

What control do I have as a "Citizen of the EU*" over the European Commission and its propaganda mouthpiece?

*Note not a Citizen of "Europe". The EU is not and never will be Europe.
Legend in my own Mind


Nïckslïkk2112

I've managed to find an article from the Grauniad from earlier this year, which says that Brexit isn't the biggest problem facing the EU.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/mar/24/the-europe-union-has-bigger-problems-to-deal-with-than-brexit

Why do remainers see the EU through such rose tinted glasses? It isn't the answer to the UK's problems and it isn't the answer to Europe's problems. It's still rooted in a post war world which has moved on aplenty in the last 60 years.
Legend in my own Mind


rufus the dawg

Quote from: Nïckslïkk2112 on August 14, 2019, 17:25:15 pmHow?

What control do I have as a "Citizen of the EU*" over the European Commission and its propaganda mouthpiece?

*Note not a Citizen of "Europe". The EU is not and never will be Europe.
Set up a web site costs peanuts!
You tube video?
Facebook page is free.

Go for it

rufus the dawg

Quote from: Nïckslïkk2112 on August 14, 2019, 17:36:10 pmI've managed to find an article from the Grauniad from earlier this year, which says that Brexit isn't the biggest problem facing the EU.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/mar/24/the-europe-union-has-bigger-problems-to-deal-with-than-brexit

Why do remainers see the EU through such rose tinted glasses? It isn't the answer to the UK's problems and it isn't the answer to Europe's problems. It's still rooted in a post war world which has moved on aplenty in the last 60 years.
Most remainers would say the EU s not perfect. Yes brexit is a massive problem for the EU. It is a bigger problem for the UK. Having the third largest trading block on our door step and not been part of it. Trading with them on WTO terms is not the most advantageous scenario for UK business.

Nick

Quote from: Nïckslïkk2112 on August 14, 2019, 17:36:10 pmI've managed to find an article from the Grauniad from earlier this year, which says that Brexit isn't the biggest problem facing the EU.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/mar/24/the-europe-union-has-bigger-problems-to-deal-with-than-brexit

Why do remainers see the EU through such rose tinted glasses? It isn't the answer to the UK's problems and it isn't the answer to Europe's problems. It's still rooted in a post war world which has moved on aplenty in the last 60 years.
In what way has the EU lagged behind? As part of the EU we have had peace and security, higher standards of employment and environmental laws, what's not to like?
Everybody's got to evalate from the norm.

Nïckslïkk2112

Quote from: Nick on August 14, 2019, 18:05:56 pmIn what way has the EU lagged behind? As part of the EU we have had peace and security, higher standards of employment and environmental laws, what's not to like?
The EU has had nothing to do with peace. Nothing. Nothing. Nothing. Nothing and Nothing. Zilch. Zip. Nada. Nowt.
Thank goodness EU labour laws have saved us from the gig economy and zero hours contracts. Thank Goodness.
Environmental laws which allow the Germans to burn up vast quantities of Lignite, do you think we'd have been able to get away with that in the UK?
Legend in my own Mind


rufus the dawg

Quote from: Nïckslïkk2112 on August 14, 2019, 20:37:13 pmThe EU has had nothing to do with peace. Nothing. Nothing. Nothing. Nothing and Nothing. Zilch. Zip. Nada. Nowt.


https://europa.eu/european-union/about-eu/history_en

The European Union is set up with the aim of ending the frequent and bloody wars between neighbours, which culminated in the Second World War. As of 1950, the European Coal and Steel Community begins to unite European countries economically and politically in order to secure lasting peace. The six founding countries are Belgium, France, Germany, Italy, Luxembourg and the Netherlands. The 1950s are dominated by a cold war between east and west. Protests in Hungary against the Communist regime are put down by Soviet tanks in 1956. In 1957, the Treaty of Rome creates the European Economic Community (EEC), or 'Common Market'.

rufus the dawg

Quote from: Nïckslïkk2112 on August 14, 2019, 20:37:13 pmThe EU has had nothing to do with peace. Nothing. Nothing. Nothing. Nothing and Nothing. Zilch. Zip. Nada. Nowt.
https://www.britannica.com/topic/European-Union


The EU represents one in a series of efforts to integrate Europe since World War II. At the end of the war, several western European countries sought closer economic, social, and political ties to achieve economic growth and military security and to promote a lasting reconciliation between France and Germany. To this end, in 1951 the leaders of six countries--Belgium, France, Italy, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, and West Germany--signed the Treaty of Paris, thereby, when it took effect in 1952, founding the European Coal and Steel Community (ECSC). (The United Kingdom had been invited to join the ECSC and in 1955 sent a representative to observe discussions about its ongoing development, but the Labour government of Clement Attlee declined membership, owing perhaps to a variety of factors, including the illness of key ministers, a desire to maintain economic independence, and a failure to grasp the community's impending significance.) The ECSC created a free-trade area for several key economic and military resources: coal, coke, steel, scrap, and iron ore. To manage the ECSC, the treaty established several supranational institutions: a High Authority to administrate, a Council of Ministers to legislate, a Common Assembly to formulate policy, and a Court of Justice to interpret the treaty and to resolve related disputes. A series of further international treaties and treaty revisions based largely on this model led eventually to the creation of the EU.

Slim

it's probably true to say Obama did like, but DC put him up to it.

Nïckslïkk2112

OK Rufus, give me examples of peer reviewed papers which show that the EU has brought about peace in Europe. Go on, I dare you.

Your copy-pasta replies to mine are useless. Showing in no way, shape or form that the EU has led to peace and stability in Europe. On the contrary if you like to Ukraine, you can see a situation where EU interference has led to instability and conflict.
Legend in my own Mind


Slim

Ah yes. Rufus, we know you're not a fan of non-original thought, so could you present some peer-reviewed original data on this? Otherwise of course it's best regarded as fake news, which it is.

Nick - I can't quote your post with the board in its present state but your remark that "As part of the EU we have had peace and security, higher standards of employment and environmental laws" overlooks a couple of critical points.

Firstly, the peace and security you describe is coincident with our membership of NATO, which I would suggest is considerably more of a factor in that respect.

The idea that political unions between nations are a guarantor of peace is easily debunked by a single word: Yugoslavia.

Secondly the notion that the EU's influence on employment and environmental law is a matter of perspective. It all comes at a cost. But in any case as a democratic nation we can have whatever employment and environmental laws we want; we don't need to have them imposed by foreign powers.


rufus the dawg

Slim, if I don't have any original thoughts why do you keep copying my posts?

Nato was set up to stop future war with Germany, Soviet Union and the cold war
The EU was set up for the European countries.
Yugoslavia has a very complicated history and was not part of the EU and had a civil war.

Trading nations are peaceful nations it is well known.

https://www.gsb.stanford.edu/insights/matthew-o-jackson-can-trade-prevent-war

rufus the dawg

Not sure I like the colour scheme, where is the quote tab?