Annoyance of the Day - 69

Started by Dixkot, August 19, 2014, 11:56:51 am

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döm

Thinking about it further, Swinson's move is not  undemocratic.  When the next election comes, people will know absolutely what they are voting for if the Lib Dems are elected.  No equivocation or doubt as is seen with Labour at the moment.  Or the pure lies of the government playing lip-service to getting deal with the EU when they have no intention of doing so.

Whether its a wise thing to do is another matter entirely, but it cannot be considered undemocratic.  Everyone knows that the next election will be fought on one issue.  Lib Dems have made themselves palpably clear on where they stand on that issue.
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Matt2112

Apart from all the other thorny considerations, what would be the legality of a party cancelling the implementation of the Brexit vote?

This would surely be challenged, just as Boris's prorogation has been - and I assume previously untested, also just as Boris's prorogation is.

It's a hideous mess any which way you turn.
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DavidL

Quote from: Matt2112 on September 18, 2019, 00:50:50 amApart from all the other thorny considerations, what would be the legality of a party cancelling the implementation of the Brexit vote?

This would surely be challenged, just as Boris's prorogation has been - and I assume previously untested, also just as Boris's prorogation is.

It's a hideous mess any which way you turn.
Yes, we are rapidly descending into a country where judgement on political decisions will be decided in the courts rather than at the polling station. All because the losers dug their heels in and refused to give their consent to the referendum result.

döm

September 18, 2019, 07:51:35 am #1968 Last Edit: September 18, 2019, 08:01:13 am by döm
Quote from: DavidL on September 18, 2019, 01:05:34 amYes, we are rapidly descending into a country where judgement on political decisions will be decided in the courts rather than at the polling station. All because the losers dug their heels in and refused to give their consent to the referendum result.
Also because Brexiteers in Parliament didn't accept the deal handed to them by their government.

In answer to Matt's point I don't believe referendums are legally binding so it wouldn't be an issue for the courts.
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Matt2112

Quote from: döm on September 18, 2019, 07:51:35 amIn answer to Matt's point I don't believe referendums are legally binding so it wouldn't be an issue for the courts.

Quite, I'd forgotten about that. :)

However, that clearly hasn't put off those who are attempting to take ostensibly purely political issues and have them tested in the courts, as we are seeing.
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DavidL

September 18, 2019, 09:54:26 am #1970 Last Edit: September 18, 2019, 10:07:15 am by DavidL
Quote from: döm on September 18, 2019, 07:51:35 amAlso because Brexiteers in Parliament didn't accept the deal handed to them by their government.

In answer to Matt's point I don't believe referendums are legally binding so it wouldn't be an issue for the courts.
Are you forgetting the Remainers in Parliament that didn't accept the deal but voted to trigger A50 and stood on a manifesto in 2017 to implement the decision to leave the EU?
The Brexiteers had a perfectly reasoned position when they rejected TM's deal. The 'treaty' contained clauses that gave the EU (under certain circumstances) the ability to lock the UK within the bloc until they determined otherwise. They were right to reject it, it was BRINO.
This Remoaner insistence that we can discard the referendum result because it was not legally binding is bogus. When the government of the day gives a solemn pledge, supported by the rest of Parliament, to enact the result of a 'once in a lifetime' referendum on an issue that has such profound effects on our system of government, there is no position of obfuscation  that could be adopted with any measure of credibility by anyone involved.
If our Parliamentarians are complicit in encouraging people to dismiss the result of the EU referendum, what other democratic processes will they feel they have the 'right' to reject? Dangerous game.

zoony

Quote from: döm on September 18, 2019, 07:51:35 amAlso because Brexiteers in Parliament didn't accept the deal handed to them by their government.


Because it was only a half Brexit.

Matt2112

The Lib Dems' position in all this cannot be anything other than dissonant, or possibly even paradoxical.

Pure thought experiment: let's say they are voted into power, with the Tories a close second.  The Tories then adopt the policy of the Lib Dems and apply it to the result - arguing that the prevailing vote should somehow be overturned and the status quo before the implementation of the prevailing vote be reinstated...

Jo Swinson has dismissed all of that for purely the reasons of a party political land-grab at the expense of any integrity.  On the face of it, strategically it's the smart thing to do and I can understand it in that sense.  It's also cynical, opportunistic, pig-headed and morally dubious, if not inexcusable.
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captainkurtz

Quote from: Matt2112 on September 18, 2019, 13:25:52 pmIt's also cynical, opportunistic, pig-headed and morally dubious, if not inexcusable.
Thats politics, Dude.
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döm

Seeing the word "woke" too often.  Matt and David leave it out will you !
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Matt2112

Quote from: döm on September 19, 2019, 15:59:28 pmSeeing the word "woke" too often.  Matt and David leave it out will you !
;D  Part of the lingua franca at the moment unfortunately.
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The Letter R

Just wondering how many kids on Climate Strike today expect to be driven from their front gate to the school gate on Monday in their parents 4x4......... :-\

I'm all for doing my bit for the planet but what some people are calling for is an overnight change of life that none of them would ever accept - they're probably the same people that called the Police last year when their local KFC ran out of Chicken for a couple of days!!

captainkurtz

Y
Quote from: The Letter R on September 20, 2019, 17:05:04 pmJust wondering how many kids on Climate Strike today expect to be driven from their front gate to the school gate on Monday in their parents 4x4......... :-\

I'm all for doing my bit for the planet but what some people are calling for is an overnight change of life that none of them would ever accept - they're probably the same people that called the Police last year when their local KFC ran out of Chicken for a couple of days!!
Agree with all this.  BUT it does raise awareness and make you think.  I've recently gotten rid of my disgusting 4x4 and opted for something, er, a little less polluting.  I'm stuck with it for 3 years but the next one will be a hybrid or electric.

same thing with plastic - I'm much more careful about that than I was 12 months ago...
Anger is a gift.

The Letter R

Quote from: captainkurtz on September 20, 2019, 17:19:16 pmYAgree with all this.  BUT it does raise awareness and make you think.  I've recently gotten rid of my disgusting 4x4 and opted for something, er, a little less polluting.  I'm stuck with it for 3 years but the next one will be a hybrid or electric.

same thing with plastic - I'm much more careful about that than I was 12 months ago...
Agreed - just hope these people protesting are doing the same. I just get the feeling some people get involved with these things without thinking about their own impact - people always seem to want "change" until it doesn't suit their lifestyle. 
I'd much prefer to see them do a mass litter pick or beach clean........

Matt2112

I wonder which country that Greta Thunberg is in this week.  ::)
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