Can someone please explain...

Started by 34Poolboy, May 22, 2008, 17:37:47 pm

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34Poolboy

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So my position is that, while the individual is ultimately responsible for the crimes they commit, government is also responsible to a degree. I see a level of social corrosion in this country that is unprecedented which has contributed greatly to an overall lack of respect which expresses itself in violent crime at worst. While its origins lay in the foundation of the welfare state following the most recent World War in my view, the current government has exacerbated this.


On that we certainly agree.

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I apologise for that; I don't like my opinion to be described as 'lame' and tend to react badly to it.


I really didn`t consider you so sensitive for that to cause offence Slim, if  that is the case then I too apologise although it seems incongruous after some of the ridiculing and scorning you yourself are guilty of.

döm

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Bring back Margaret Thatcher & William Whitelaw.



Fancy a bit more O/T on the picket lines ?
You can check out any time you like but you can never leave!

BaldiePete

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I see a level of social corrosion in this country that is unprecedented which has contributed greatly to an overall lack of respect which expresses itself in violent crime at worst. While its origins lay in the foundation of the welfare state following the most recent World War.


That is a genuinely interesting take on it, to lay the blame for social corrosion on the post-war welfare state. Of course I don't see it that way, if anything the welfare state was a force to stop social corrosion by providing a means for better health, housing and education for all UK citizens.

What about the situation in the USA ? They have similar problems to us in terms of violence and social breakdown but have a much less welfare provision than we and other European countries have ?




Ron_Hill

It's nothing that can't be fixed by a blanket press ban on government organised "disappearances". Sorting out who to disappear is tricky though but i'd start with anyone hooked on hard drugs funding their habit through crime.

I also think that burglars who invade anothers property should waive all rights and if you wish to mulch and bury them to grow your vegetables then you should be able to get free veg seeds from the government for civic services rendered. Ditto violent offenders.

Havn't made my mind up yet about people who walk on the cracks in the pavement deliberately but my policy committee is working on it. :)

BaldiePete

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I also think that burglars who invade anothers property should waive all rights and if you wish to mulch and bury them to grow your vegetables then you should be able to get free veg seeds from the government for civic services rendered. Ditto violent offenders.



But what if it is someone who has got lost and has come to knock on your door to ask for directions ? It does happen, some British guy got blown away in Texas when he did just that. IIRC the guy who killed him wasn't charged.

The Old Dog

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And I'm with Slim on this one politically.
shocker  as a serving police officer aren't you supposed to have no political view at all or has that gone by the board now .

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Bring back Margaret Thatcher & William Whitelaw
And hang them  ;)

Ron_Hill

That's very unfortunate but nothing is ever completely safe and it has to be an on balance thing. Once you start to worry about the minority incident possibilities then you strangle any progress towards common sense. If a fecker is in my house with intention to cause harm I want to know that the law is behind me when I push him down the stairs and breaks a leg and not worry if he is going to sue me for daring to put a stairway to the valuables. As it stands now i'd be far more likely to have a word with friends in such a scenario than call the police and personally that saddens me.

Ron_Hill

A woman reversed into me in busy traffic once. I reported it to police. They did sod all of any effectiveness. The situation has since been resolved though. Found her car parked with an expired tax disc. :)

pdw1

QuoteA woman reversed into me in busy traffic once. I reported it to police. They did sod all of any effectiveness. The situation has since been resolved though. Found her car parked with an expired tax disc. :)

I thought you were one of life's nice guys  :-?
Better drowned than duffers if not duffers wont drown

Ron_Hill

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I thought you were one of life's nice guys  :-?


I am quite an easy going individual but when I feel agrieved or crossed and I am unable to get satisfaction or resolution through legitimate channels or reasonable dialogue then all bets are off. No-one on here has ever made me feel the need to let loose Mr. Evil Ron I have to say. Jump up and down like the guy in the Pink Panther cartoons yes but nothing requiring meticulous planning. :)

pdw1

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I am quite an easy going individual but when I feel agrieved or crossed and I am unable to get satisfaction or resolution through legitimate channels or reasonable dialogue then all bets are off. No-one on here has ever made me feel the need to let loose Mr. Evil Ron I have to say. Jump up and down like the guy in the Pink Panther cartoons yes but nothing requiring meticulous planning. :)


I'm scared now.  I think I'll run off to France for the weekend.

Better drowned than duffers if not duffers wont drown

34Poolboy


Andrew_Haldane

July 04, 2008, 20:23:37 pm #57 Last Edit: July 04, 2008, 20:35:40 pm by Andrew_Haldane
Quotesorry to resurrect this old chesnut but;

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/london/7489039.stm

Cue political rhetoric.


Its too easy to blame one or two overarching causes for the proliferation of these crimes. Fundamentally though the perpetrators do not respect human life, the Police, the judicial or penal systems. They seemingly have little or no fear either of being caught or indeed any prospective punishment that ensues following conviction. When that is the case its pretty evident that society (or at least part of it) is breaking down. Fundamentally (I think) its about power, fear and social status, if not in society then certainly amongst peer groups. As I said it is too reductive to pin it down to one or two main causes but a lot of these murders are either racially, tribal or gang related. People who aren't valued or who don't feel valued, or feel they have no stake or  future prospects within society are far more likely to find their sense of identity in sub groups. tragically it seems as if murdering your fellow man is seen as a rite of passage amongst a growing minority of these individuals and groups. There needs to be a massive rethink about sentencing. Life should mean life with absolutely no prospect of parole. Anyone found carrying a knife in public should be put away for 7 years, a gun 15 years. Zero tolerance might be a more effective way of dealing with weapons but it wont stop the violence itself.

Thats all for now