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Signals => General Chat - English => Topic started by: Bez on May 23, 2017, 07:53:33 AM

Title: Manchester
Post by: Bez on May 23, 2017, 07:53:33 AM
So, woken up to the news that a terrorist attack on the MEN has killed 22 and injured "scores"

There are kids amongst the victims

I was at a gig myself last night. I saw mates in the pub and made it home safely with no more inconvenience than a slightly delayed train.

I've been to the MEN twice to see Rush, as I suspect have many others on here.

I'm off to see Maiden on Saturday at the O2....

I can't really articulate any more.
Title: Re: Manchester
Post by: The Letter R on May 23, 2017, 08:05:19 AM
Yes - sometimes words don't seem to exist to articulate such atrocities.
Not only does it hit home more because we are all regular gig goers but for them to target such an audience as they did is just beyond comprehension......
Title: Re: Manchester
Post by: Bez on May 23, 2017, 08:09:54 AM
Listening to radio4, Keith. Here are some of the reasons that these feckers will never win...

"Taxi drivers coming from Liverpool to offer free lifts back to the city"
"Hotels & private citizens offering free rooms"
"People turning up at the arena to offer water & food to support workers and victims"

feck you, c***s.
Title: Re: Manchester
Post by: Thenop on May 23, 2017, 08:18:19 AM
My heart goes out to those hurt. So many young lives taken or scarred for life.
We, in the Netherlands, haven't been hit yet on this scale but I am sure we will not be spared. All I can say is that I will never let anyone break me or my will to do what I want.
I am born free, in a free country and I will defend my freedom by living my life the way I want to.

Off to see Kiss tomorrow eve...
Title: Re: Manchester
Post by: Bez on May 23, 2017, 08:28:09 AM
My heart goes out to those hurt. So many young lives taken or scarred for life.
We, in the Netherlands, haven't been hit yet on this scale but I am sure we will not be spared. All I can say is that I will never let anyone break me or my will to do what I want.
I am born free, in a free country and I will defend my freedom by living my life the way I want to.

Off to see Kiss tomorrow eve...

Stay safe
Title: Re: Manchester
Post by: captainkurtz on May 23, 2017, 08:41:08 AM
Listening to radio4, Keith. Here are some of the reasons that these feckers will never win...

"Taxi drivers coming from Liverpool to offer free lifts back to the city"
"Hotels & private citizens offering free rooms"
"People turning up at the arena to offer water & food to support workers and victims"

feck you, c***s.
It's been really heartwarming to read of how people have quickly reacted in the wake of this atrocity.  It's just heartbreaking.  As a Dad and a regular concert goer this really does break my heart.  Will never forget those that died here and will be paying my respects properly when I'm next in Manchester.
Title: Re: Manchester
Post by: Slim on May 23, 2017, 08:44:31 AM
Quite numbing. Last night I was looking through photos I'd taken at the MEN four years previously exactly, May 22nd 2013. Went to bed early and woke up to horrible news from the same place.

Of course we think of the Paris attacks, and the Westminster attack, and the attack in Nice. Yet news like this is commonplace in the Middle East, and we barely register it.
Title: Re: Manchester
Post by: The Letter R on May 23, 2017, 10:16:12 AM
People making fake tweets about "missing" friends just to get re-tweets and online newspapers using stock images of people totally un-connected with the event - what the feck is wrong with people!!!!
Title: Re: Manchester
Post by: Slim on May 23, 2017, 13:41:53 PM
Really? Words fail. Symptomatic of the chaos of information we now live in.
Title: Re: Manchester
Post by: Matt2112 on May 23, 2017, 14:44:26 PM
The extent of the grief people must be suffering is incomprehensible to me.  I hope I'm never in their shoes.

It's long past time for some honesty on behalf of the mainstream media and political parties, not recycled platitudes and worthy hand-wringing.

Let's see how things pan out this time.  In the meantime, I just despair.
Title: Re: Manchester
Post by: Jonners on May 23, 2017, 14:45:38 PM
Just waiting for the "he was known to the police" statement to come out...........
Title: Re: Manchester
Post by: Nïckslïkk2112 on May 23, 2017, 14:59:12 PM
I got back to my Hotel after a gig last night to hear about this. Terrible thing to happen.
Mrs S was worried about me  going to London, she'd have been even worse if it had bee today I was going.
As I telll her, if you let these things get to you, the  feckers have won.
Title: Re: Manchester
Post by: captainkurtz on May 23, 2017, 15:47:03 PM
I got back to my Hotel after a gig last night to hear about this. Terrible thing to happen.
Mrs S was worried about me  going to London, she'd have been even worse if it had bee today I was going.
As I telll her, if you let these things get to you, the  feckers have won.
Wife very nervous about me going to Glasgow this weekend for a couple of gigs - not just safety concerns - I'm called Hassan and i'm going to both gigs on my own....

Title: Re: Manchester
Post by: Matt2112 on May 23, 2017, 16:08:12 PM
Wife very nervous about me going to Glasgow this weekend for a couple of gigs - not just safety concerns - I'm called Hassan and i'm going to both gigs on my own....


I'd like to think "folks are basically decent" and you'd experience a prevailing solidarity more than anything else.  Hope all goes well.
Title: Re: Manchester
Post by: Nick on May 23, 2017, 17:48:54 PM
I remember at the last Steven Wilson gig i attended i was seated by the wall in the middlish section of Colston Hall, while i was looking forward to the gig my first thoughts were how do i get out quickly if anything happens, what a sad state of affairs.
Title: Re: Manchester
Post by: pdw1 on May 23, 2017, 18:02:53 PM
It's been really heartwarming to read of how people have quickly reacted in the wake of this atrocity.  It's just heartbreaking.  As a Dad and a regular concert goer this really does break my heart.  Will never forget those that died here and will be paying my respects properly when I'm next in Manchester.
Exactly my thoughts.

We cant let these bastards win. I will be at The O2 on Sunday for Iron Maiden
Title: Re: Manchester
Post by: Analog RH on May 23, 2017, 21:13:59 PM
Well, as a resident of Manchester its been a rollercoaster 24 hours.
I was at home last night, but went into Manchester in the early hours of the morning to help with the Salvation Army effort.
I was in town again today, with work, and the outpouring of community and caring and tolerance and mutual understanding as I walked around Albert Square and Piccadilly Gardens was heartening.

As with any city, there are some complete c***s living in Manchester. But they are far, far outnumbered by decent people who are at their best in a crisis. Today the city in which I live showed its true colours.

I'm proud to call Manchester my home. It, and we, will prevail.
Title: Re: Manchester
Post by: Slim on May 23, 2017, 22:29:56 PM
Wife very nervous about me going to Glasgow this weekend for a couple of gigs - not just safety concerns - I'm called Hassan and i'm going to both gigs on my own....

On 5 Live earlier I was encouraged by an interview with a young Muslim woman who'd gone to Albert Square to show support and empathy, and had been shown love and respect by the people there. But I'd be nervous as well to be honest and I don't blame you. The basically good and generous outnumber the mean-spirited and hateful, but there are still plenty of people in that latter category.

I have a colleague at work from Leicester who's a full-on beard and Muslim dress sort of guy. Never broached the subject with him but I wonder how he feels at times like these.
Title: Re: Manchester
Post by: NeilP on May 24, 2017, 00:20:32 AM
The city of Manchester and the folk who gave both their time and charitable work to the victims and their families have really got to me today, it is the most amazing city with great people.
Title: Re: Manchester
Post by: Blastzone on May 24, 2017, 22:14:45 PM
Got two tickets for Kiss in Glasgow this weekend and was taking my youngest son .He now us refusing to go through fear of what might/could happen . these feckers have gotten into his head and I can't persuade him otherwise .
Title: Re: Manchester
Post by: captainkurtz on May 25, 2017, 07:17:46 AM
Sorry to hear that Gordon.  I can understand the fear though.

Just got word that a young couple who were amongst those that were murdered were friends of the Daughter of my best mate from school. 

In a weird way, the couple of concerts that I'm attending this weekend cannot come quick enough. 
Title: Re: Manchester
Post by: Thenop on May 25, 2017, 07:39:59 AM
Very sorry to hear that indeed.
I went to see Kiss last night here in Rotterdam, security measures were very very tight. 3 checkpoints: 1st check the entrance whether you have the ticket, then an officer padding you down. And then, before going into the actual arena, a manual search by metal detector.  I bet you no one could even bring a roll of Mentos, it was that tight.
Kiss was very thoughtful as well, it's not easy getting 10,000 Kissfans quiet, but they did after the 2nd song, honoring the victims and it was impressive.
Outside the venue police were on full alert as well.  Everything went  well.

It sounds odd, but at times like these, people (well the normal ones anyway) come together and bond or something… Very good atmosphere throughout the night.

Oh, and Kiss was awesome, of course...
Title: Re: Manchester
Post by: The Letter R on May 25, 2017, 07:57:32 AM
Got two tickets for Kiss in Glasgow this weekend and was taking my youngest son .He now us refusing to go through fear of what might/could happen . these feckers have gotten into his head and I can't persuade him otherwise .


Hopefully come the weekend after a few more days have passed he may come around Gordon. Can understand the fear especially for the youngsters - I can remember similar fears in London in the 70's during my Childhood. In reality the actual chance of getting caught up in anything like this is very small - easy to say but harder to understand especially with it being played up by the media 24/7 - not saying it shouldn't be reported but I think it gets to saturation point and they keep repeating the same things over and over and people end up thinking they will be next.


I am off to see Maiden at the 02 Saturday - slightly more on edge and wary than usual but determined to have a good time. Hope you both do too at Kiss.
Title: Re: Manchester
Post by: captainkurtz on May 25, 2017, 09:09:52 AM


It sounds odd, but at times like these, people (well the normal ones anyway) come together and bond or something… Very good atmosphere throughout the night.


This is what I meant to say.  Glad you enjoyed the show..
Title: Re: Manchester
Post by: Blastzone on May 25, 2017, 20:03:24 PM
So sorry to hear that Hass..unimaginable to lose a youngster .Very sad 😖...Hass/Keith..wise words lads...he will come around as he loves various types of music and is a regular gig goer ,maybe if the gig was in a fortnight or so he might have felt better about things . He will get back out there ,he loves it too much not too but just as Keith touched on ,it is full on media stuff at the moment and it bothered him .
S
Title: Re: Manchester
Post by: Slim on May 25, 2017, 21:24:33 PM
To be honest I think the media can overfeed on these things. Of course it's massive news but today for example 5 Live had an interview with someone who'd lost a relative during the 7/7 bombing, just to squeeze a bit more juice out of it. And some of the interviews with affected people that I've heard on that station seemed really intrusive to me, voyeuristic even. People in tears being asked to describe their feelings to an audience of a few hundred thousand people.
Title: Re: Manchester
Post by: DavidL on May 26, 2017, 01:23:31 AM
Usual bollocks about terrorists not winning, communities standing together, normal life carrying on. Chelsea Premiership victory parade cancelled, MUFC Europa League victory cancelled. We are on our knees and ISIS are laughing at us.
Members of the mosques that the bomber worshipped at saw signs of radicalisation, his family were anti-Gaddafi insurgents with possible IS links that secured asylum in the UK. Known to the authorities but allowed to destroy innocent lives.
God help us.
Title: Re: Manchester
Post by: DavidL on May 26, 2017, 07:15:37 AM
So, it seems Corbyn would have UK foreign policy dictated by these nut jobs.
Title: Re: Manchester
Post by: Bez on May 26, 2017, 07:40:39 AM
So, it seems Corbyn would have UK foreign policy dictated by these nut jobs.

Do you have to turn every post into some kind of political opinion piece?
Title: Re: Manchester
Post by: Bez on May 26, 2017, 07:41:17 AM
Sorry to hear that Gordon.  I can understand the fear though.

Just got word that a young couple who were amongst those that were murdered were friends of the Daughter of my best mate from school. 

In a weird way, the couple of concerts that I'm attending this weekend cannot come quick enough.

Sorry to read that, mate....
Title: Re: Manchester
Post by: Bez on May 26, 2017, 07:42:31 AM

I am off to see Maiden at the 02 Saturday - slightly more on edge and wary than usual but determined to have a good time. Hope you both do too at Kiss.

Looking forward to standing next to (slightly behind) you, mate....

I'm apprehensive as well, but I'll be there, right enough....
Title: Re: Manchester
Post by: The Letter R on May 26, 2017, 07:43:56 AM
Indeed Paul - yes slightly behind me though please... ;)
Title: Re: Manchester
Post by: DavidL on May 26, 2017, 13:58:13 PM
Do you have to turn every post into some kind of political opinion piece?
I'm guessing that's rhetorical. If not, the answer is no. However, if it is relevant to the thread, my post may contain one or more references to politics. I make no apologies for that.
Title: Re: Manchester
Post by: NeilP on June 05, 2017, 00:25:58 AM
https://twitter.com/johnpilger/status/870048020041281537
Title: Re: Manchester
Post by: DavidL on June 05, 2017, 07:21:38 AM
https://twitter.com/johnpilger/status/870048020041281537 (https://twitter.com/johnpilger/status/870048020041281537)
That's an interesting piece, although it doesn't make clear that jihadism existed before the interventions mentioned. Agree that the actions of various western governments have exacerbated the situation but these people require no excuse for their barbarity.
However, red or blue, makes no difference. We are ruled by misguided idiots. Wouldn't surprise me if Blair and Cameron often take mutual solace in late night phone calls, they must both struggle to sleep at times.
Title: Re: Manchester
Post by: Matt2112 on June 05, 2017, 10:25:20 AM
That's an interesting piece, although it doesn't make clear that jihadism existed before the interventions mentioned. Agree that the actions of various western governments have exacerbated the situation but these people require no excuse for their barbarity. However, red or blue, makes no difference.


Precisely.  Pilger often argues coherently to a point, but habitually begs crucial questions than simply don't seem to occur to him.  He'd be a formidable advocate of true progressivism if not for these sort of baffling blind spots.
Title: Re: Manchester
Post by: DavidL on June 06, 2017, 07:20:30 AM
Good to see Maajid Nawaz talking complete sense on breakfast TV this morning. His honesty in admitting that hate preachers are widespread and in calling the home-grown jihadism issue an 'insurgency' is part of finding a solution.
In my view, defence of liberal values and cultural sensitivity should not trump the prevention of innocent citizens being blown to bits. We've become a laughing stock among the extremists - one of the 'London three' was the star of his own TV show ffs!  >:(
Title: Re: Manchester
Post by: Matt2112 on June 06, 2017, 11:30:39 AM
Good to see Maajid Nawaz talking complete sense on breakfast TV this morning. His honesty in admitting that hate preachers are widespread and in calling the home-grown jihadism issue an 'insurgency' is part of finding a solution.
In my view, defence of liberal values and cultural sensitivity should not trump the prevention of innocent citizens being blown to bits. We've become a laughing stock among the extremists - one of the 'London three' was the star of his own TV show ffs!  >:(


Maajid Nawaz - and the Quilliam Foundation of which he's a founder - has been one of the few sane, sensible and honest voices about this whole issue for a long time.


It's always gratifying when regressive left apologists of any religion and indeed none can't and/or won't acknowledge the elephant in the room, only for their arguments to be annihilated by someone - a former Islamist extremist indeed - who is far more theologically, politically and philosophically literate than they will ever be. 
Title: Re: Manchester
Post by: DavidL on June 06, 2017, 13:55:04 PM

Maajid Nawaz - and the Quilliam Foundation of which he's a founder - has been one of the few sane, sensible and honest voices about this whole issue for a long time.


It's always gratifying when regressive left apologists of any religion and indeed none can't and/or won't acknowledge the elephant in the room, only for their arguments to be annihilated by someone - a former Islamist extremist indeed - who is far more theologically, politically and philosophically literate than they will ever be.
Indeed. Much like the immigration debate, honesty has been in short supply around this issue.
Title: Re: Manchester
Post by: DavidL on June 06, 2017, 19:10:02 PM
So the last of the 'London three' to be named was prevented from travelling to Syria to fight and 'red-flagged' by the Italian authorities and yet he was let into the UK, probably with a cordial smile and a welcoming comment by our, ahem.....'Border Force' - farcical.
Title: Re: Manchester
Post by: Richard_2112 on June 06, 2017, 19:48:05 PM
So the last of the 'London three' to be named was prevented from travelling to Syria to fight and 'red-flagged' by the Italian authorities and yet he was let into the UK, probably with a cordial smile and a welcoming comment by our, ahem.....'Border Force' - farcical.
Whoever was Home Secretary should resign in shame for doing such a poor job...
Title: Re: Manchester
Post by: zoony on June 06, 2017, 21:14:49 PM
Whoever was Home Secretary should resign in shame for doing such a poor job...


Agreed mate.
Title: Re: Manchester
Post by: NeilP on June 06, 2017, 21:57:25 PM
So the last of the 'London three' to be named was prevented from travelling to Syria to fight and 'red-flagged' by the Italian authorities and yet he was let into the UK, probably with a cordial smile and a welcoming comment by our, ahem.....'Border Force' - farcical.


well the Manchester monster was likely encouraged to travel to Libya to depose of Gaddafi in 2011 via SIS so the UK Govt seems far from innocent when he later became radicalised and joined his disillusioned brethren bringing such sorrow to so many British families affected by the events at the MEN... sad times indeed


http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2017/05/libya-manchester-connection-170528081044095.html (http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2017/05/libya-manchester-connection-170528081044095.html)
Title: Re: Manchester
Post by: Matt2112 on June 06, 2017, 23:00:44 PM
Whoever was Home Secretary should resign in shame for doing such a poor job...


It will look like it was a tenure of astute political genius if Abbott fills the position after Thursday.


Add Shami Chakrabarti as Attorney General and the prospect of a Labour victory just doesn't bear thinking about.
Title: Re: Manchester
Post by: DavidL on June 06, 2017, 23:05:39 PM
Whoever was Home Secretary should resign in shame for doing such a poor job...
I've always been critical of her record as Home Secretary but it has to be considered in the context of a world that is dominated by politicians with  liberal values.
Title: Re: Manchester
Post by: The Letter R on June 07, 2017, 08:24:37 AM
Unfortunately there's a fine line between locking someone up or stopping someone from going somewhere because we have intel on them but not enough to convict and being accused of being a heavy handed Police state.......many of the people complaining these terrorist should have been stopped early would be first inline shouting Police Brutality or Government Strongarm tatics had they been held without actually doing anything.
Maybe Guantanamo Bay wasn't such a bad idea after all........
Title: Re: Manchester
Post by: Bez on May 22, 2018, 08:19:01 AM
1 year on.
Title: Re: Manchester
Post by: Bisto on June 05, 2018, 07:22:39 AM
Unfortunately there's a fine line between locking someone up or stopping someone from going somewhere because we have intel on them but not enough to convict and being accused of being a heavy handed Police state.......many of the people complaining these terrorist should have been stopped early would be first inline shouting Police Brutality or Government Strongarm tatics had they been held without actually doing anything.
Maybe Guantanamo Bay wasn't such a bad idea after all........


Maybe Black Ops hit squads aren't such a bad idea either?!
Title: Re: Manchester
Post by: Matt2112 on June 05, 2018, 09:45:54 AM
Maybe like the Maajid Nawazs and Ayaan Hirsi Alis  of this world our leaders address the problem from its fundamental root source and upwards, rather than hacking at its branches.
Title: Re: Manchester
Post by: Slim on June 10, 2018, 12:38:11 PM
Agreed Matt, the West's approach to relationships with different cultures and countries needs a fundamental rethink.