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Signals => General Chat - English => Topic started by: rufus the dawg on February 28, 2020, 20:23:30 pm

Title: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: rufus the dawg on February 28, 2020, 20:23:30 pm
Because the media is 24/7 Coronavirus here are some thoughts.

My sister in law is a doctor in a hospital and sent this to me today. Hence some of information she says.


"Mortality rates are a bit higher than flu but not much and not nearly as bad as SARS - between 2-4% and about half of those are in people who are 85+ and diabetic, heart/lung disease etc.

The greatest impact is likely to be in cost of care and lost work days. This virus is canny! It has a long incubation period, doesn't kill and can produce asymptomatic/mild illness which means it can spread without us being fully aware of it. So globally we are going to have a lot of lost work days. 

 Lots of workers sick means loss of other goods production. It has a lipid coat so detergent, bleach and alcohol will kill it, maybe survives up to 2 hours to 9 days (!) in the environment.

But, nobody likes to be unwell if they can help it!

It spreads by droplets - so direct spray from someone coughing/sneezing or touching something that someone has coughed/sneezed near.

So, scrupulous hand washing before eating/drinking/touching mouth, nose, eyes. Particularly after travel on public transport and being in crowded places. Carry antiseptic alcohol spray. Try to chose less busy times to travel and to avoid crowds. Clean glasses as well after travel etc with soap/alcohol. Shower when you get back home straight away.

I am likely to end up having to self-isolate for a few days at some point and with that and the economic effects, I am going to stock up on non-perishables - tea, coffee, tins, rice, pasta, cleaning stuff etc. It'll reduce time in supermarkets and also mean I can hunker down easily if necessary!

Hopefully all markets will bounce back. I do feel there is a lot of unnecessary early fear about. No doubt some folk are making a killing cash wise out of it! And the ones who own the media and can direct fear to suit themselves!
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on February 28, 2020, 21:00:59 pm
Thanks for that Rufus!
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: zoony on February 29, 2020, 22:12:54 pm
No comment.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Slim on February 29, 2020, 22:32:52 pm
Quote from: rufus the dawg on February 28, 2020, 20:23:30 pmHopefully all markets will bounce back. I do feel there is a lot of unnecessary early fear about. No doubt some folk are making a killing cash wise out of it! And the ones who own the media and can direct fear to suit themselves!

Ah yes! Exactly like Brexit.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: rufus the dawg on February 29, 2020, 22:48:01 pm
Quote from: Slim on February 29, 2020, 22:32:52 pmAh yes! Exactly like Brexit.
Hopefully all markets will bounce back. I do feel there is a lot of unnecessary early fear about. No doubt some folk are making a killing cash wise out of it! And the ones who own the media and can direct fear to suit themselves!

Got brexit done slim always knows the facts.

Lets see
 70 billion of quantitative easing
3 years and still no plan
The pound fell of a cliff
Brexit has cost each house hold £400
reduced national British income by between 0.6% and 1.3%
Brexit reduced investment by businesses by approximately 6 % and caused an employment reduction by 1.5 %
Brexit has cost the uk £130 billion
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: The Letter R on March 02, 2020, 09:31:09 am
Quote from: rufus the dawg on February 28, 2020, 20:23:30 pmalcohol will kill it
Good news - I am well stocked and preparing to self-medicate  :-)
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: zoony on March 02, 2020, 12:34:28 pm
Quote from: rufus the dawg on February 29, 2020, 22:48:01 pmLets see
 70 billion of quantitative easing
3 years and still no plan
The pound fell of a cliff
Brexit has cost each house hold £400
reduced national British income by between 0.6% and 1.3%
Brexit reduced investment by businesses by approximately 6 % and caused an employment reduction by 1.5 %
Brexit has cost the uk £130 billion
C'mon mate, we've already got a thread for these type of rantings...
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: rufus the dawg on March 02, 2020, 13:03:22 pm
Quote from: zoony on March 02, 2020, 12:34:28 pmC'mon mate, we've already got a thread for these type of rantings...
I know sorry, it is really annoys me when people change the subject in a thread and what they say needs addressing. So I did. ie....

Sorry again


Quote from: Slim on February 29, 2020, 22:32:52 pmAh yes! Exactly like Brexit.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Chris Quartly on March 02, 2020, 15:16:42 pm
New York just had its first confirmed case and we're travelling to Mexico City for a week on Saturday which now has a couple. As Rufus has noted, practicing good hygiene is the way to go, as it should be anyway, it has made me very conscious about how often I touch my face throughout a day! 

We're well stocked on non-perishable goods and cleaning materials, which seems sensible. Things we will use over time anyway but will get us through a couple of weeks in a worst-case scenario. Being prepared can only be good.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: The Letter R on March 03, 2020, 13:58:44 pm
You know it's serious when people start petitioning for the latest Bond film release to be postponed until the Summer.......
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Matt2112 on March 03, 2020, 14:18:22 pm
Quote from: The Letter R on March 03, 2020, 13:58:44 pmYou know it's serious when people start petitioning for the latest Bond film release to be postponed until the Summer.......
They should be petitioning for a far better theme song than Billie Eilish's atrocious effort.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Bez on March 03, 2020, 14:27:24 pm
Bez's Junior's school was shut for a day last week - they'd been on a skiing holiday to Italy and one of the kids had symptoms - it re-opened on Friday after the advice from the Government changed...

Here we've made some provision for an isolation, but nothing too exhaustive. If anyone needs a toilet roll drop me a line... :o
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: zoony on March 03, 2020, 15:51:01 pm
I'm just waiting for the first fecker at our place to phone in sick on a Friday or Saturday night to say they've got the symptoms...
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Slim on March 04, 2020, 19:05:54 pm
Just heard that the Bond film release has been put back seven months after "careful consideration and thorough evaluation of the global theatrical marketplace". Was due out in about four weeks time, now that won't happen until November - that's a shame, I was looking forward to it.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Bez on March 04, 2020, 21:25:07 pm
Quote from: zoony on March 03, 2020, 15:51:01 pmI'm just waiting for the first fecker at our place to phone in sick on a Friday or Saturday night to say they've got the symptoms...
More likely now that there's sick pay for all.....
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: rufus the dawg on March 09, 2020, 17:29:56 pm
100,000 vacancies on the NHS just when we need them. Thank you CONservatives.

Its not my fault its the previous administration, the CONservatives



https://www.livescience.com/new-coronavirus-compare-with-flu.html (https://www.livescience.com/new-coronavirus-compare-with-flu.html)

to quote.....

"The death rate from seasonal flu is typically around 0.1% in the U.S., according to The New York Times (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/18/world/asia/china-coronavirus.html#link-4f1410c9). 
The death rate for COVID-19 appears to be higher than that of the flu. 
In the study published Feb. 18 in the China CDC Weekly, researchers found a death rate from COVID-19 to be around 2.3% in mainland China. Another study of about 1,100 hospitalized patients in China, published Feb. 28 in the New England Journal of Medicine (https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2002032), found that the overall death rate was slightly lower, around 1.4%.
Still, the death rate for COVID-19 appears to vary by location and an individual's age, among other factors. For instance, in Hubei Province, the epicenter of the outbreak, the death rate reached 2.9%; in other provinces of China, that rate was just 0.4%, according to the China CDC Weekly study. In addition, older adults have been hit the hardest. The death rate soars to 14.8% in those 80 and older; among those ages 70 to 79, the COVID-19 death rate in China seems to be about 8%; it's 3.6% for those ages 60 to 69; 1.3% for 50 to 59; 0.4% for the age group 40 to 49; and just 0.2% for people ages 10 to 39. No deaths in children under 9 have been reported. 
Though the death rate for COVID-19 is unclear, most research suggests it is higher than that of the seasonal flu."
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Nïckslïkk2112 on March 09, 2020, 22:48:21 pm
100,000 vacancies for what though?

Pen-pushing probably, biggest waste of money known to man is the NHS
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on March 10, 2020, 07:18:43 am
Quote from: Nïckslïkk2112 on March 09, 2020, 22:48:21 pmPen-pushing probably, biggest waste of money known to man is the NHS
Ooh, you can't say that! Don't you know it's sacred! 😉
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on March 10, 2020, 08:39:48 am
Quote from: DavidL on March 10, 2020, 07:18:43 amOoh, you can't say that! Don't you know it's sacred! 😉
Also it's bollox
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on March 10, 2020, 08:42:36 am
Think the UK government is waiting for the horse to bolt before locking the gate! 

No Stadium closures, Cheltenham going ahead, etc etc. 

Think they need to step up, and quickly.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Bez on March 10, 2020, 09:31:46 am
Quote from: döm on March 10, 2020, 08:42:36 amThink the UK government is waiting for the horse to bolt before locking the gate!

No Stadium closures, Cheltenham going ahead, etc etc.

Think they need to step up, and quickly.
Not sure that I see news from Ireland to that effect, Dom?
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on March 10, 2020, 09:50:37 am
All St pat's Day parades have been cancelled. Irish Government has given 3 billion to enable sickness benefit to kick in from day 1 and is to be increased from 200e to 300e to claim. Self employed will also be entitled to this benefit.

The Irish Government is taking this very seriously. They've seen how quickly it's taken hold in Italy and are doing what they can to slow it down. The Health Service here (and in the UK) wouldn't be able to cope with the numbers predicted
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: rufus the dawg on March 10, 2020, 10:10:07 am
Quote from: DavidL on March 10, 2020, 07:18:43 amOoh, you can't say that! Don't you know it's sacred! 😉
no its just a populist crap. 

10,000 doctors
40,000 nurses
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on March 10, 2020, 10:55:02 am
Quote from: döm on March 10, 2020, 09:50:37 amAll St pat's Day parades have been cancelled. Irish Government has given 3 billion to enable sickness benefit to kick in from day 1 and is to be increased from 200e to 300e to claim. Self employed will also be entitled to this benefit.

The Irish Government is taking this very seriously. They've seen how quickly it's taken hold in Italy and are doing what they can to slow it down. The Health Service here (and in the UK) wouldn't be able to cope with the numbers predicted
From my experience, Italy does not adhere to very high standards of cleanliness. I've stayed in some right s**tholes. Quite the opposite to where we are at the moment in Austria. Everywhere is spotless. Probably European champions of hygiene.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Nïckslïkk2112 on March 10, 2020, 11:02:48 am
Quote from: DavidL on March 10, 2020, 07:18:43 amOoh, you can't say that! Don't you know it's sacred! 😉
I know. The shibboleth of modern times.

Me: Bless me Father for I have sinned, it is 45 years since my last confession

Priest: Bless you my child, what do you wish to confess

Me: I have slandered the NHS

Priest: DRINK! FECK! ARSE! GIRLS! If that isn't the worst thing I have ever heard. Eternity isn't long enough for all the Hail Marys you need to say. Begone SINNER!

NHS biggest waster of money ever. There said it again. I don't care.


You should hear what my cousin - a former District Nurse - has to say. She's had a Liver transplant and is under two other hospitals for her Diabetes and Arthritis, the lack of joined up thinking, waste and uncaring staff makes her blood boil.

On another note Mrs S's auntie has been put on end life pathways twice by the super NHS. She celebrated her 92nd birthday last week.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Nïckslïkk2112 on March 10, 2020, 11:03:54 am
Quote from: rufus the dawg on March 10, 2020, 10:10:07 amno its just a populist crap.

10,000 doctors
40,000 nurses
Ah, 10,000 + 40,000 = 100,000

Thanks for that. I enjoy learning :)
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Nick on March 10, 2020, 19:49:57 pm
Anybody self isolating yet, or know anybody that is?
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Nïckslïkk2112 on March 10, 2020, 20:23:43 pm
I've been trying to do it all my life.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: zoony on March 10, 2020, 20:40:58 pm
No comment....
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: rufus the dawg on March 10, 2020, 21:46:00 pm
Quote from: Nïckslïkk2112 on March 10, 2020, 11:03:54 amAh, 10,000 + 40,000 = 100,000

Thanks for that. I enjoy learning :)
Yes you said they were all pen pushers. But I guess you mean managers. 3.7% of the NHS work force are managers. 

That would equate 3700....pen pushers.

Remember, included in the 100,000 will be supports staff like speech and language therapists, physios, porters etc And managers. These people make the NHS run smoothly and support all the doctors and nurses.

When someone crashes in to a pot hole when on their bike. They might go over the handle bars and fall off in to the middle of the road and a car might crash in to them the NHS is there for them. 

999
Ambulance
A&E
Consultants
DRs
Nurses
Porters
Cleaners
S&LT
Chefs
Physios
etc

all backed up by the pen pushers to make sure they work in a cohesive manner.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Nïckslïkk2112 on March 10, 2020, 22:55:51 pm
Quote from: rufus the dawg on March 10, 2020, 21:46:00 pmYes you said they were all pen pushers. But I guess you mean managers. 3.7% of the NHS work force are managers.

That would equate 3700....pen pushers.

Remember, included in the 100,000 will be supports staff like speech and language therapists, physios, porters etc And managers. These people make the NHS run smoothly and support all the doctors and nurses.

When someone crashes in to a pot hole when on their bike. They might go over the handle bars and fall off in to the middle of the road and a car might crash in to them the NHS is there for them.

999
Ambulance
A&E
Consultants
DRs
Nurses
Porters
Cleaners
S&LT
Chefs
Physios
etc

all backed up by the pen pushers to make sure they work in a cohesive manner.
Except the penpushers DO NOT make sure they work in a cohesive manner. I have family experience of that. Plenty of family experience of that. The NHS does not run smoothly. The NHS does not run efficiently.

Even the simple fact that they send out multiple copies of unnecessary surveys shows they have no cohesion.

There are over 1 million NHS employees which doesn't include those in general practice. Over 1 million of the buggers. Over 1 million of the fat buggers. My old father after his hospital visits always comments on how he's carrying a bit of excess baggage, but the NHS nursing staff sure are whoppers. I guess that's because once they've spent all their money on fast food they go and strip the foodbanks bare, depriving the genuine needy. They don't need managerial support, they need Zimmers.

Still, I guess they half inch all their toilet rolls from the hospitals and clinics rather than stripping the Supermarket shelves.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on March 10, 2020, 23:21:49 pm
I have to say, the thought that the NHS runs smoothly and all parts work in a cohesive manner is fantasy of the highest order. It has many dedicated and hard-working staff and it can do great things but efficient? Far from it.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: rufus the dawg on March 10, 2020, 23:40:33 pm
Quote from: DavidL on March 10, 2020, 23:21:49 pmI have to say, the thought that the NHS runs smoothly and all parts work in a cohesive manner is fantasy of the highest order. It has many dedicated and hard-working staff and it can do great things but efficient? Far from it.
So it needs more pen pushers? the populist view of cutting them has not worked? From my experience the NHS is brilliant.

Can you name a private company that has more pressure on it than the NHS? I have family working for the NHS and basically they say it is completely underfunded. AND totally unready for C19
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Matt2112 on March 11, 2020, 00:20:26 am
The last time I had to stay in hospital, I found the NHS coffee to be unforgivably dreadful. I tried unsuccessfully to tell them, but then I had expressive dysphasia at the time due to a mild stroke. :)

(Even) More seriously - the response and treatment at the time my "cryotogenic cerebrovascular accident" happened was exceptional, almost certainly preventing more lasting damage than the mild effects it left me with.

The admin side was (is) not good.  Most of my aftercare (MRI scans etc) was based in Leeds, who waited and waited and waited for weeks for paperwork to be sent from Calderdale - two clicks of a mouse.

I still require a routine keyhole op to complete my treatment.  The cardiologist at Leeds wrote to me originally to say funding wasn't available but would put me on a waiting list - this was over four years ago.  So I was on a waiting list for....a waiting list.  Around the time of the GE last year, my case was granted funding. So I've been promoted from one waiting list to another.  I have no idea how long I need to keep waiting, as I suspect the NHS doesn't either.  That said, I should note that because there are and will be many, many substantially more urgent cases than mine, and my current medication suffices in the meantime, then I'm not expecting a letter any time soon.  

I've tried to be as neutral as possible there - make of all that what you will.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on March 11, 2020, 07:23:13 am
Quote from: rufus the dawg on March 10, 2020, 23:40:33 pmI have family working for the NHS and basically they say it is completely underfunded. 
Of course it is and will continue to be whilst it tries to do everything....for everybody.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Nïckslïkk2112 on March 11, 2020, 10:18:26 am
Quote from: rufus the dawg on March 10, 2020, 23:40:33 pmI have family working for the NHS and basically they say it is completely underfunded.
The NHS will swallow every penny you throw at it and will still want more.

Amongst its biggest problems are a populace who have been brought up to believe the NHS is there to do everything for them - I worked with a bloke who took his kids to A&E if they got a splinter - and a populace who don't care about taking care of themselves.

I have family who worked for the NHS and they think its a shambles.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Slim on March 11, 2020, 10:25:31 am
Quote from: döm on March 10, 2020, 08:42:36 amThink the UK government is waiting for the horse to bolt before locking the gate!

No Stadium closures, Cheltenham going ahead, etc etc.

Think they need to step up, and quickly.

Perhaps the UK government needs to weigh up your advice against that of its chief medical officer, the virologists and other public health experts, and decide which might be more authoritative.

Very interesting stuff here -

Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: rufus the dawg on March 11, 2020, 11:17:42 am
There no way of stopping a virus, it will happen.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on March 11, 2020, 11:20:02 am
Quote from: Slim on March 11, 2020, 10:25:31 amPerhaps the UK government needs to weigh up your advice against that of its chief medical officer, the virologists and other public health experts, and decide which might be more authoritative.

Very interesting stuff here -

The Irish Government would have received very similar advice as that given to the UK government (and it wasn't mine).
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on March 11, 2020, 11:22:26 am
Quote from: rufus the dawg on March 11, 2020, 11:17:42 amThere no way of stopping a virus, it will happen.
That's true Rufus, but by stopping large groupings you can slow down its progress and help to prevent hospitals and medical professionals from being swamped.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Slim on March 11, 2020, 14:45:09 pm
Corbyn attempting to score political points off the virus as I type.

I have to say - I don't really know why he's stayed on this long as leader. His words carry all of the authority you'd expect of a loser, firmly rejected by the people. Gordon Brown handed over to Harriet Harman as interim leader soon as the game was up and I think Jeremy would have been wise to do similar.

But he did have the good grace to offer good wishes to Nadine.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on March 12, 2020, 09:54:50 am
Tom Hanks has coronavirus. At least he knows what it's like to be isolated

"Aaawwww, Wilsaaaaan!"
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on March 12, 2020, 12:47:03 pm
Just announced for Ireland....

All Schools, Colleges and childcare facilities to close in  from 6pm this evening until 29th March.  All cultural facilities to close.  Outdoor gatherings of more than 500 people and indoor of more than 100 to be banned.

All workers that can work from home are to be encouraged to do so.

Small cafes and restaurants to stay open as long as they keep tables at least 1 metre apart.

Panic buying prevention measures to be introduced !
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: captainkurtz on March 12, 2020, 13:01:24 pm
Who tour postponed.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on March 12, 2020, 13:14:32 pm
Quote from: captainkurtz on March 12, 2020, 13:01:24 pmWho tour postponed.
Yes have cancelled the American part of their tour.  Understandable both groups are in the most at risk group.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on March 12, 2020, 13:55:45 pm
Quote from: döm on March 12, 2020, 13:14:32 pmYes have cancelled the American part of their tour.  Understandable both groups are in the most at risk group.
;D ;D
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on March 12, 2020, 14:20:39 pm
Just ventured out into Navan town centre.  All feels a little apocalyptic.  Supermarkets heaving with people, shelves emptying fast.  Seems like the panic buying policy hasn't kicked in yet!! ::)   Also all mobile networks are down, seems that they can't cope with the numbers trying to use them
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on March 12, 2020, 14:24:52 pm
Quote from: döm on March 12, 2020, 14:20:39 pmJust ventured out into Navan town centre.  All feels a little apocalyptic.  Supermarkets heaving with people, shelves emptying fast.  Seems like the panic buying policy hasn't kicked in yet!! ::)  Also all mobile networks are down, seems that they can't cope with the numbers trying to use them
It's the End of Days. People will be forced to eat toilet paper to survive.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on March 12, 2020, 15:13:18 pm
Meanwhile, in the UK 

https://twitter.com/Realheadcase1/status/1238059183662141440?s=19
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: zoony on March 12, 2020, 20:02:48 pm
Quote from: döm on March 12, 2020, 14:20:39 pmJust ventured out into Navan town centre.  All feels a little apocalyptic.  Supermarkets heaving with people, shelves emptying fast.  Seems like the panic buying policy hasn't kicked in yet!! ::)  Also all mobile networks are down, seems that they can't cope with the numbers trying to use them
fecks sake. Some people, I mean a lot of people, just want fecking shaking 😠.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Nïckslïkk2112 on March 12, 2020, 20:27:08 pm
Quote from: DavidL on March 12, 2020, 14:24:52 pmIt's the End of Days. People will be forced to eat toilet paper to survive.
I have a nice recipe for a Bog Roll and pasta bake :) It's not too far removed from Tofu really...
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: rufus the dawg on March 12, 2020, 21:35:51 pm
Quote from: Nïckslïkk2112 on March 12, 2020, 20:27:08 pmI have a nice recipe for a Bog Roll and pasta bake :) It's not too far removed from Tofu really...
Sounds vegan? umm if the bog roll was used it wouldn't be!
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on March 12, 2020, 22:28:48 pm
All Austrian ski resorts closed from Sunday. A day after we leave 🙂
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Straight Shooter on March 12, 2020, 22:47:16 pm
Quote from: captainkurtz on March 12, 2020, 13:01:24 pmWho tour postponed.
Same for Santana and Richard Marx...
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on March 13, 2020, 00:55:19 am
Fascinating read.  Self isolate guys...

https://medium.com/@tomaspueyo/coronavirus-act-today-or-people-will-die-f4d3d9cd99ca
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Slim on March 13, 2020, 01:30:33 am
The Lib Dems have cancelled their spring conference - so it's not only large gatherings that are being affected.

Mikel Arteta has it.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on March 13, 2020, 12:06:35 pm
The Daily Mail editorial

"Striking the right tone at this press conference was not easy, but Boris and his boffins carried it off well. At this stage, we must trust their judgment and do as they say"

Daily Mail internal email from head of HR

"The global position is moving so fast that the official government advice is no longer adequate enough to safeguard our staff"
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Matt2112 on March 13, 2020, 12:56:43 pm
Quote from: Straight Shooter on March 12, 2020, 22:47:16 pmSame for Santana and Richard Marx...
RESULT!! I was gutted I couldn't make any of Richard Marx's 3 U.K. dates; hopefully he'll reschedule for something more feasible. :)
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: rufus the dawg on March 13, 2020, 22:16:01 pm
Quote from: Slim on March 13, 2020, 01:30:33 amThe Lib Dems have cancelled their spring conference - so it's not only large gatherings that are being affected.

Mikel Arteta has it.
I'm surprised you're not blaming CV19 on Gordon Brown's labour government.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Matt2112 on March 14, 2020, 01:19:29 am
Was given option by my employers today to take ad hoc unpaid time off.

Everyone given guidance on how to log in to their work hard drives remotely should they opt to work from home.

Sh*t's got real quite rapidly hasn't it!

I've no requirement for either option as things stand; feel okay, too much to do and my drive to work takes 7 minutes - so business as usual, as far as I'm concerned.

Going to the match of a Saturday, as usual.

Look out for me on the telly!

Cancel the Apocalypse. :)
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: zoony on March 14, 2020, 04:37:45 am
Quote from: Matt2112 on March 14, 2020, 01:19:29 amWas given option by my employers today to take ad hoc unpaid time off.

Everyone given guidance on how to log in to their work hard drives remotely should they opt to work from home.

Sh*t's got real quite rapidly hasn't it!

I've no requirement for either option as things stand; feel okay, too much to do and my drive to work takes 7 minutes - so business as usual, as far as I'm concerned.

Going to the match of a Saturday, as usual.

Look out for me on the telly!

Cancel the Apocalypse. :)
Good lad. Life has to go on mate.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Bez on March 14, 2020, 12:10:53 pm
Quote from: Matt2112 on March 14, 2020, 01:19:29 amWas given option by my employers today to take ad hoc unpaid time off.

Everyone given guidance on how to log in to their work hard drives remotely should they opt to work from home.

Sh*t's got real quite rapidly hasn't it!

I've no requirement for either option as things stand; feel okay, too much to do and my drive to work takes 7 minutes - so business as usual, as far as I'm concerned.

Going to the match of a Saturday, as usual.

Look out for me on the telly!

Cancel the Apocalypse. :)
Unpaid? Cheeky feckers...
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Bez on March 14, 2020, 12:15:07 pm
Off to Kempton Park races in a mo...what virus? :o
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on March 14, 2020, 13:46:29 pm
This position of encouraging herd immunity by the UK Government is a little concerning to me.

As I understand it the plan is for 60% of the population to contract the illness. Based on the current mortality rate the figure for Johnson's lost loved ones would amount to somewhere between a quarter and half a million people.

 A plan to effectively allow for that sounds incredibly callous to me.

Looking at football and rugby it's interesting that Johnson's lack of decisiveness has forced organisations to manage themselves. Just as well they have acted responsibly.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Slim on March 14, 2020, 15:08:00 pm
Quote from: rufus the dawg on March 13, 2020, 22:16:01 pmI'm surprised you're not blaming CV19 on Gordon Brown's labour government.
I'm not surprised you're surprised.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Slim on March 14, 2020, 15:23:28 pm
Quote from: döm on March 14, 2020, 13:46:29 pmThis position of encouraging herd immunity by the UK Government is a little concerning to me.

As I understand it the plan is for 60% of the population to contract the illness. Based on the current mortality rate the figure for Johnson's lost loved ones would amount to somewhere between a quarter and half a million people.

 A plan to effectively allow for that sounds incredibly callous to me.

Looking at football and rugby it's interesting that Johnson's lack of decisiveness has forced organisations to manage themselves. Just as well they have acted responsibly.

Sorry Dom, that's absolute nonsense. The government has acted on the best advice of the scientists based on medical and behavioural science. There has not been the slightest lack of decisiveness. Other organisations are free to make their own arrangements but their priorities and interests are different. Some sporting bodies will be thinking of the viability of completing their fixtures with the available players, for example. Nor are their actions and judgement necessarily as wise.

I listened to radio programmes for hours yesterday and heard no end of experts validating and praising the government's approach - and I think we're very fortunate to have such a capable government in charge at the moment.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Nick on March 14, 2020, 16:01:36 pm
Strange our expert advice is so out of step with the rest of the world. 

Seems crazy to me no test out herd theory on an unknown virus, the failure or success of which is at least 250000 dead. Most of which are likely to be Brexit voters.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Bisto on March 14, 2020, 16:05:19 pm
Quote from: Nick on March 14, 2020, 16:01:36 pmStrange our expert advice is so out of step with the rest of the world.

Seems crazy to me no test out herd theory on an unknown virus, the failure or success of which is at least 250000 dead. Most of which are likely to be Brexit voters.
The terrible irony is that the EU is pumping €37bn into tackling the Covid 19 virus when at least some of those voters were probably persuaded by the "£350m more per week" slogan backed/promulgated by Boris which we have now had confirmed was a blatant lie by the Treasury.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on March 14, 2020, 16:17:45 pm
Quote from: Slim on March 14, 2020, 15:23:28 pmSorry Dom, that's absolute nonsense. The government has acted on the best advice of the scientists based on medical and behavioural science. There has not been the slightest lack of decisiveness. Other organisations are free to make their own arrangements but their priorities and interests are different. Some sporting bodies will be thinking of the viability of completing their fixtures with the available players, for example. Nor are their actions and judgement necessarily as wise.

I listened to radio programmes for hours yesterday and heard no end of experts validating and praising the government's approach - and I think we're very fortunate to have such a capable government in charge at the moment.
I've heard plenty questioning it such as the World Health Organisation, Jeremy Hunt, ex Tory Health Minister and various heads of University Epidemiology departments.

Others are asking for the modelling which led the UK to believe that a more laid back attitude was the right approach
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Slim on March 14, 2020, 19:20:37 pm
Quote from: Bisto on March 14, 2020, 16:05:19 pmThe terrible irony is that the EU is pumping €37bn into tackling the Covid 19 virus when at least some of those voters were probably persuaded by the "£350m more per week" slogan backed/promulgated by Boris which we have now had confirmed was a blatant lie by the Treasury.

Sorry, no-one lied about that. An exhortation by the campaign to leave the EU to spend whatever figure in whatever timeframe on whatever public service does not amount to a commitment to do so by the government.

I appreciate that this notion has been in common currency for a long time now, a lot of people fell for it and in that respect it was successful. But fortunately, ultimately it was harmless.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Slim on March 14, 2020, 19:24:37 pm
Quote from: döm on March 14, 2020, 16:17:45 pmI've heard plenty questioning it such as the World Health Organisation, Jeremy Hunt, ex Tory Health Minister and various heads of University Epidemiology departments.

Others are asking for the modelling which led the UK to believe that a more laid back attitude was the right approach

Ignoring your suggestion that a "laid back" attitude is in effect, which I wouldn't accept for a moment - none of this substantiates your claim that the government is either wrong, or indecisive.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Slim on March 14, 2020, 19:36:10 pm
Quote from: Nick on March 14, 2020, 16:01:36 pmStrange our expert advice is so out of step with the rest of the world.

Seems crazy to me no test out herd theory on an unknown virus, the failure or success of which is at least 250000 dead. Most of which are likely to be Brexit voters.
I believe that the government's advisors are taking the measures which they believe are the safest approach to minimising the harm. I doubt anyone's being reckless.

And none of us are now Brexit, or Remain voters. They were counted a long time ago.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on March 14, 2020, 19:50:22 pm
I heard him and he spoke very well and I understood the rationale.

Social isolation is the only recommendstion. One that cannot be enforced. And for people not to go on cruises.

Schools to remain open. Children carry the illness but don't seem to get any of the symptoms. Perfect carriers for the disease and the classroom is the perfect location to spread it.

Public gatherings to continue.  The virus doesn't spread as well outdoors but it will in the bars, coffee shops etc etc that people frequent in large numbers when going to such events.

The Chief Medical Officer is suggesting that such bans and closures will be more effective when the virus is more entrenched in the community. Leaving it for now will stop a second epidemic later in the year. Maybe going against perceived opinion in most of our neighbouring countries is the right approach. It's a huge gamble.

As Richard Horton chief editor of The Lancet stated "The Government is playing roulette with the public. This is a major error".
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on March 14, 2020, 20:07:52 pm
Quote from: Slim on March 14, 2020, 19:36:10 pmI believe that the government's advisors are taking the measures which they believe are the safest approach to minimising the harm. I doubt anyone's being reckless.

And none of us are now Brexit, or Remain voters. They were counted a long time ago.
AHH Brexit ! Those were the days!
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on March 14, 2020, 21:25:54 pm
Ok looks like the Government IS planning on stepping up to the plate, hope they don't leave it too late....

https://www.itv.com/news/2020-03-14/elderly-to-be-quarantined-for-four-months-in-wartime-style-mobilisation-to-combat-coronavirus/
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Matt2112 on March 14, 2020, 22:51:01 pm
Quote from: Bez on March 14, 2020, 12:10:53 pmUnpaid? Cheeky feckers...
Assuming no symptoms/diagnosis.

A different scenario otherwise - I may have not made that clear, in which case my apologies. :)
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: rufus the dawg on March 15, 2020, 01:15:22 am
Quote from: döm on March 14, 2020, 21:25:54 pmOk looks like the Government IS planning on stepping up to the plate, hope they don't leave it too late....

https://www.itv.com/news/2020-03-14/elderly-to-be-quarantined-for-four-months-in-wartime-style-mobilisation-to-combat-coronavirus/
Compared to what other countries have done it is to little to late. 

Event organisers have had take their own responsibility because of the lack of action from the government.

Johnson says we should not go on a cruise!
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Nïckslïkk2112 on March 15, 2020, 15:23:53 pm
Quote from: rufus the dawg on March 15, 2020, 01:15:22 amCompared to what other countries have done it is to little to late.

Like the French, who were going down the herd immunisation route until a couple of days ago

QuoteDebate is raging in France about what is the better model for tackling Covid-19: the Chinese with their radical system of confinement for limiting the spread; or the UK with their "herd immunity" approach, according to which infection of a majority is inevitable - and even, if properly handled, to be welcomed.
Up until a couple of days ago, it seemed France leaned more to the "herd" philosophy. Like in Britain, the official view favoured a controlled propagation - buying time so that the wave of infections is drawn out over a long period, and hospitals are not overwhelmed.
But now suddenly, there is a shift in the other direction. First schools, then cafés, restaurants and allnon-essential shops are to be closed (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-51892477). It seems the government now thinks Chinese- and Italian-style draconianism is more appropriate - except when it comes to the municipal elections, which are going ahead as planned.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-51895276

Italy went for much stricter measures than the UK, but the BBC reported yesterday that Italian COVID19 cases were still rocketing.

And it just goes to show how smart BoJo is - NOBODY in their right mind should go on a cruise.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: rufus the dawg on March 15, 2020, 16:49:51 pm
An open letter from British society of Immunolgy.

The world faces a huge challenge in light of the SARS-CoV-2 outbreak. The UK's public health strategy differs from many other countries, with an aim to build herd immunity to protect the population. Within the immunology community, we have significant questions about this strategy. The ultimate aim of herd immunity is to stop disease spread and protect the most vulnerable in society. However, this strategy only works to reduce serious disease if, when building that immunity, vulnerable individuals are protected from becoming ill, for example through social distancing. If not, the consequences could be severe. 
Additionally, there are many unknowns in how the SARS-CoV-2 virus interacts with the human immune system and how this might play into current scenarios. For example, we don't yet know if this novel virus will induce long-term immunity in those affected as other related viruses do not. Therefore, it would be prudent to prevent infection in the first place. More research is urgently needed on this front.
The UK leads the world for the quality of our immunology research. Given our current lack of knowledge on SARS-CoV-2, our community of immunologists have two asks. Firstly, we feel more needs to be done to ensure social distancing to limit the number of COVID-19 cases in the short term, especially for vulnerable members of our communities. This will enable us to buy time until we understand the virus better and can begin to develop therapeutics.  Secondly, to aid efforts, we call on the government to release their modelling data to allow scrutiny from the scientific community to better predict the course of this outbreak.  
We have a small window of opportunity to protect our nation, to learn about this new emerging virus and to deal with this unprecedented threat to global health. 
Professor Arne Akbar
President, British Society for Immunology
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: rufus the dawg on March 15, 2020, 16:59:04 pm
Quote from: Nïckslïkk2112 on March 15, 2020, 15:23:53 pmLike the French, who were going down the herd immunisation route until a couple of days ago

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-51895276

Italy went for much stricter measures than the UK, but the BBC reported yesterday that Italian COVID19 cases were still rocketing.

And it just goes to show how smart BoJo is - NOBODY in their right mind should go on a cruise.
Nick the UK needed to slow the infection rate not make it spike quickly, so not able to look after people. The more people have it at any one time the more will die; because this way in the elderly generations there will not be enough beds in the NHS to look after them.

The government are trying to keep business as usual and so up and running.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Bisto on March 15, 2020, 21:01:04 pm
Quote from: Slim on March 14, 2020, 19:20:37 pmSorry, no-one lied about that. An exhortation by the campaign to leave the EU to spend whatever figure in whatever timeframe on whatever public service does not amount to a commitment to do so by the government.

I appreciate that this notion has been in common currency for a long time now, a lot of people fell for it and in that respect it was successful. But fortunately, ultimately it was harmless.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/budget-rushi-sunak-treasury-figures-brexit-dividend-a9395476.html
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: rufus the dawg on March 15, 2020, 21:23:05 pm
Quote from: Slim on March 14, 2020, 19:20:37 pmSorry, no-one lied about that. An exhortation by the campaign to leave the EU to spend whatever figure in whatever timeframe on whatever public service does not amount to a commitment to do so by the government.

I appreciate that this notion has been in common currency for a long time now, a lot of people fell for it and in that respect it was successful. But fortunately, ultimately it was harmless.
distorting democracy by lying is not harmless. It builds a greater distrust in politicians and political systems.  People believed they were going to spend an extra £350 million a week on the NHS. It does not matter what you think. Brexit leaders led people to think that is what they were going to spend the money on. So that is the truth.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on March 15, 2020, 23:16:46 pm
Manchester held a St Patrick's Day parade today.

Thousands were at a Stereophonics gig in Cardiff last night.

Bath half Marathon held today.

Rugby League matches went ahead too.

Does anyone think the UK is being a little complacent?
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on March 16, 2020, 00:08:34 am
Quote from: döm on March 15, 2020, 23:16:46 pmDoes anyone think the UK is being a little complacent?
This guy doesn't 🤔

https://talbotspy.org/letter-from-toronto-an-infectious-diseases-specialist-reflects-on-corvid-19/
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on March 16, 2020, 00:14:53 am
Not a particularly unified approach from the 27 EU states:

https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/news/schengen-area-crisis-eu-states-close-borders-as-coronavirus-outbreak-grips-bloc/

Looks like in times of adversity it's every man for himself (just like the UK's 'Bog Roll Bandits')!
😁
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on March 16, 2020, 01:06:27 am
Quote from: DavidL on March 16, 2020, 00:14:53 amNot a particularly unified approach from the 26 EU states:

https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/news/schengen-area-crisis-eu-states-close-borders-as-coronavirus-outbreak-grips-bloc/

Looks like in times of adversity it's every man for himself (just like the UK's 'Bog Roll Bandits')!
😁
Interesting! So member states can close their borders and remain members. Who knew?
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Chris Quartly on March 16, 2020, 04:39:45 am
New York essentially shutdown - schools closed, bars and restaurants closed (only allowed to do take out or delivery), music venues closed. Hopefully everyone heeds the advice and stays in if possible. The mayor and the governor have both been very good with their communications here, giving constant updates. I do think a lot of this could have been avoided if the federal government hadn't acted like this would all blow over without any effort. 

We should be fine working from home for a few weeks even if we didn't leave the apartment at all, seems like we'll only really slow this down by social distancing and allowing essential services to do their thing.

I'm somewhat concerned by the UK's approach to this, I understand the logic behind it, but it really does seem to have the potential to backfire more disastrously. I know there's a tendency for some to defend whatever this government does no matter what, but it does beg the question what makes this plan so much better that no-one else (other than Australia) are considering herd immunity.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on March 16, 2020, 19:41:24 pm
Has Johnson just killed off the West End? By advising people not to attend theatre rather than enforcing it, theatres won't be able to claim insurance
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: zoony on March 16, 2020, 19:43:44 pm
Quote from: döm on March 15, 2020, 23:16:46 pmManchester held a St Patrick's Day parade today.

Thousands were at a Stereophonics gig in Cardiff last night.

Bath half Marathon held today.

Rugby League matches went ahead too.

Does anyone think the UK is being a little complacent?
No. But saying that, they have now mentioned new measures. I'm not the only one who just wants to get on with things. By all means, give people advice on what they can do, but don't force them.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Nick on March 16, 2020, 19:45:35 pm
They have to be forced otherwise the plan fails.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on March 16, 2020, 20:38:30 pm
Quote from: zoony on March 16, 2020, 19:43:44 pmNo. But saying that, they have now mentioned new measures. I'm not the only one who just wants to get on with things. By all means, give people advice on what they can do, but don't force them.
We all want to just get on with things but that's not going to solve this crisis
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Nïckslïkk2112 on March 16, 2020, 20:48:24 pm
Quote from: döm on March 16, 2020, 19:41:24 pmHas Johnson just killed off the West End? By advising people not to attend theatre rather than enforcing it, theatres won't be able to claim insurance
And you think the insurance companies won't have been spending time planning how to deny paying out anyway? Act of God innit.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Nïckslïkk2112 on March 16, 2020, 20:49:56 pm
Just got back from Aldi and they've imposed new purchasing limits: 2 x Trumpets, 1 x Diving Suit and 1 x MIG welding kit.

Now if it had been a pressure washer and not a MIG welder then along with a Diving Suit you'd have no need for Bog Roll
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on March 16, 2020, 20:57:08 pm
Quote from: Nïckslïkk2112 on March 16, 2020, 20:48:24 pmAnd you think the insurance companies won't have been spending time planning how to deny paying out anyway? Act of God innit.
True, essentially the government is saving insurance companies the effort of finding ways to not pay out.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on March 16, 2020, 21:18:16 pm
Quote from: döm on March 16, 2020, 01:06:27 amInteresting! So member states can close their borders and remain members. Who knew?
At risk of being fined, of course. Funny to see Von der Leyen spinning it today as if it was all the EU's idea! ;D
Anyways, can't see them exerting too much control over any member state now, that begging bowl is getting bigger by the day.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Chris Quartly on March 16, 2020, 21:52:42 pm
Quote from: Nick on March 16, 2020, 19:45:35 pmThey have to be forced otherwise the plan fails.
This is a key point! Bars and restaurants were packed here at the weekend, even though new guidelines had kicked in that any establishment with a capacity over 500 had to officially reduce it by half (all >500 places were forced to close), no-one had heeded it. A lot of people will just do what they want until they can't, and that is not conducive to fighting a pandemic. 

It's good that the government seem to have realised their mistake somewhat today, but I'm still concerned at the amount of advice and the lack of action, due to the above.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: rufus the dawg on March 16, 2020, 22:26:34 pm
UK Government doing a 180 degree turn on its approach at last.

They have had it all wrong so far.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Nïckslïkk2112 on March 16, 2020, 22:43:25 pm
Quote from: rufus the dawg on March 16, 2020, 22:26:34 pmUK Government doing a 180 degree turn on its approach at last.

They have had it all wrong so far.
Thank you Mr Qualified Virologist and Epidemiologist.

Do you know what? Nobody can say for sure what the best course of action is, and no matter what is done, human beings are involved - there's always someone who'll make sure to foul things up.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: zoony on March 16, 2020, 23:13:25 pm
All the doom mongers who thought the shit was going to hit the fan when we left the EU, will now be having a field day with what effect this shit will have on the economy and jobs, and with good reason.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Bisto on March 16, 2020, 23:55:01 pm
Quote from: zoony on March 16, 2020, 23:13:25 pmAll the doom mongers who thought the shit was going to hit the fan when we left the EU, will now be having a field day with what effect this shit will have on the economy and jobs, and with good reason.
The shit is (still) hitting the fan from Brexit....and will continue to do so. I'm sure there will be plenty of Brexiters blaming the effects of it on the Corona virus pandemic for years to come though...and I'm equally sure that Soros and the rest of the Disaster Capitalists will continue to benefit from the chaos in the world stock markets...and that Politicians will use the fear, uncertainty and social unrest we are witnessing to their own advantage too.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Exiled Yorkie on March 17, 2020, 02:12:47 am
Well I had a nice NZ/Aus trip planned in early May with a Maiden gig in Auckland, that looks like it has gone tits up, but that isnt important the health and safety of the world is, this is serious. I have to work from home for two weeks because some one I work with had direct contact with a carrier. So far I have no symptoms, wish me luck.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Gary L. Grape on March 17, 2020, 08:45:33 am
Finland will close schools tomorrow and has declared a state of emergency  :o
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Bez on March 17, 2020, 09:20:58 am
Quote from: Exiled Yorkie on March 17, 2020, 02:12:47 amWell I had a nice NZ/Aus trip planned in early May with a Maiden gig in Auckland, that looks like it has gone tits up, but that isnt important the health and safety of the world is, this is serious. I have to work from home for two weeks because some one I work with had direct contact with a carrier. So far I have no symptoms, wish me luck.
Good luck, mate....:)
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Bez on March 17, 2020, 09:26:01 am
Quote from: Gary L. Grape on March 17, 2020, 08:45:33 amFinland will close schools tomorrow and has declared a state of emergency  :o
Mrs Bez is a teacher and her school (450 infants and juniors and over 200 parents at drop off and pick up times) is still open.

It was a difficult discussion yesterday around why why her school is open, but we can't socialise or should be pratcicing safe distance from people - try explianing that to a 4 year old who needs a hug because she's fallen over...

My middle son is a firefighter - they're on "blue light" only jobs to protect them.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on March 17, 2020, 10:40:57 am
Quote from: Bez on March 17, 2020, 09:26:01 amMy middle son is a firefighter - they're on "blue light" only jobs to protect them.
Rather cats remain stuck up a tree than s***tting all over my garden tbh  ;D ;)
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: zoony on March 17, 2020, 10:58:55 am
Got a medication review appointment at the dics tonight, they've phoned to say that it will now be done over the phone. No pasta, or bog rolls in Sainsburys again today. I could slip a few big rolls from work in my bag I suppose, but I dare say there are others doing it, and I can see bag searches and sackings coming up if we're not careful.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Bez on March 17, 2020, 11:00:46 am
Quote from: DavidL on March 17, 2020, 10:40:57 amRather cats remain stuck up a tree than s***tting all over my garden tbh  ;D ;)
Cat's in trees are only if the RSPCA can't get them down....very rarely done these days....its more likely to be a quick burst from a hose than a friendly firefighter on a ladder...:)
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: zoony on March 17, 2020, 11:03:36 am
We have a good and very valued voluntary first responder service in our village, but they have stopped attending for the time being.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on March 17, 2020, 11:20:52 am
Quote from: Bez on March 17, 2020, 11:00:46 amCat's in trees are only if the RSPCA can't get them down....very rarely done these days....its more likely to be a quick burst from a hose than a friendly firefighter on a ladder...:)
Quick burst from an AK47 would be my choice  ;)
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Bisto on March 17, 2020, 11:33:59 am
Quote from: Bez on March 17, 2020, 11:00:46 amCat's in trees are only if the RSPCA can't get them down....very rarely done these days....its more likely to be a quick burst from a hose than a friendly firefighter on a ladder...:)
Cheers mate, thats made my day that image.😁
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: pxr5 on March 17, 2020, 13:34:01 pm
My wife was speaking to a nurse who works at Blackpool Victoria hospital and she said that A&E there has never been as quiet. Makes you wonder how many 'emergencies' really are that urgent.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: rufus the dawg on March 17, 2020, 14:45:18 pm
Quote from: Nïckslïkk2112 on March 16, 2020, 22:43:25 pmThank you Mr Qualified Virologist and Epidemiologist.

Do you know what? Nobody can say for sure what the best course of action is, and no matter what is done, human beings are involved - there's always someone who'll make sure to foul things up.
Modelling of from herd immunity was 200,000 - 400,000 people dying in the UK
Modelling from closing everything down is 20,000.

It started here on 31st January......and six weeks later only now are we are starting to put measures in right across the country.


The UK government have been 3 to 6 weeks behind the curb and they have been told so. WHO has told them so. I heard them talking about the UKs response on the radio and we have it all wrong. We have been reactive instead of proactive. First out break of this was in china in November. 

Interesting though we have 3.5% death rate in uk. The spike needs to be managed. That needs to be done by social distancing and self isolation if that is possible.

My last squash team match has been called off and the pub after has been cancelled. That is because 10 players getting together for a sports game and then going down the pub for a meal would not be good. One person out of us with CV19 could have infected us all. We then pass it one to our parents they might have to go to hospital.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on March 17, 2020, 15:27:28 pm
Quote from: döm on March 16, 2020, 19:41:24 pmHas Johnson just killed off the West End? By advising people not to attend theatre rather than enforcing it, theatres won't be able to claim insurance
No

https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/coronavirus-covid-19-bar-restaurant-closure-uk-government-insurance-boris-johnson-132639821.html
 (https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/coronavirus-covid-19-bar-restaurant-closure-uk-government-insurance-boris-johnson-132639821.html)
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on March 17, 2020, 17:30:04 pm
Quote from: DavidL on March 17, 2020, 15:27:28 pmNo

https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/coronavirus-covid-19-bar-restaurant-closure-uk-government-insurance-boris-johnson-132639821.html
 (https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/coronavirus-covid-19-bar-restaurant-closure-uk-government-insurance-boris-johnson-132639821.html)
Yes saw that earlier. Thanks for the heads up.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: zoony on March 17, 2020, 20:01:55 pm
My eldest sons fiancee works in the lab at a secondary modern school. She is due to have a baby in 4 weeks, and was sent home today, on full pay, as she is in the most vulnerable group. My daughter, Alicia has been advised to study at home as well, as she is also in the group being a type 1 diabetic.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on March 17, 2020, 20:06:10 pm
How long till UK schools are closed?
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Nïckslïkk2112 on March 17, 2020, 20:29:50 pm
Quote from: döm on March 17, 2020, 20:06:10 pmHow long till UK schools are closed?
When a critical mass of pathetic teachers have decided to self isolate.

The headmistress of the school where Mrs S works wants to keep open as long as she can.

She's one pathetic teacher down. Said teacher had booked to compete in the Rome marathon a couple of weekends back. Of course said marathon was cancelled. Teacher went anyway, knowing full well that she'd have to self isolate when she came home. When she finished school on the Friday she said to all her colleagues "See you in a fortnight". Do that in the real world and it's P45 time.

Mrs S as one of her duties is a first aider, and she said today that sick bay was full of coughing kids. She phoned up the dad of one kid to see if he could take him home. Father said "I can't I'm self-isolating" yet he'd sent his bloody kid to school. Whatever the Government does, we're fecked because of the sheer stupidity of the subhuman scum that populates this country.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Slim on March 18, 2020, 12:37:41 pm
Weird and uncertain times, eh? Events on the continent with people being fined for leaving their homes even in a modern Western democracy like France have really put a very sobering complexion on this. I wonder if that's coming here in some similar form, as well. I suspect that it is.

Feels a bit like we're living in one of those apocalyptic sci-fi movies.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Bez on March 18, 2020, 17:13:15 pm
Quote from: döm on March 17, 2020, 20:06:10 pmHow long till UK schools are closed?
Wales & Scotland have already announced.

Press conference from the Education Secrtary due at 17:00
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Matt2112 on March 18, 2020, 18:39:57 pm
Schools closed from Friday to all but children with parents who are key workers.

Announced today that The Shay Stadium will be empty for 12 weeks...yes, yes, the jokes write themselves... :)
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Bez on March 18, 2020, 20:53:41 pm
Quote from: Matt2112 on March 18, 2020, 18:39:57 pmSchools closed from Friday to all but children with parents who are key workers.

Announced today that The Shay Stadium will be empty for 12 weeks...yes, yes, the jokes write themselves... :)
Indeed. a valid option, but no instruictions as to how this will work and how many teachers will be required to staff this. Who will cook the meals for the vulbnerable kids. No timetable for when this info will be available. Head teachers are noiw scratching their heads and teachers have no idea what will happen on Monday.

Poorly delivered
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Nïckslïkk2112 on March 18, 2020, 22:56:59 pm
Yes, to all those wishing for school closures what's your reaction now schools are closed. But not closed.

I suppose it's all BoJo's fault again.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on March 18, 2020, 23:41:42 pm
Quote from: Nïckslïkk2112 on March 18, 2020, 22:56:59 pmYes, to all those wishing for school closures what's your reaction now schools are closed. But not closed.

I suppose it's all BoJo's fault again.
He is singularly ill equipped to deal with a crisis like this. He should have stuck to Have I got News For You. A joke of a leader when we need someone deadly serious.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Nïckslïkk2112 on March 19, 2020, 10:26:49 am
Quote from: döm on March 18, 2020, 23:41:42 pmHe is singularly ill equipped to deal with a crisis like this. He should have stuck to Have I got News For You. A joke of a leader when we need someone deadly serious.
Twaddle.

What about Macron, shutting France down and letting local elections go ahead.

Give me a 10,000 word dissertation explaining all differences between UK and RoW policies on COVID19 and how this shows all UK actions - solely chosen by Boris Johnson - have exacerbated our situation vis-a-vis the RoW.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: rufus the dawg on March 19, 2020, 12:38:59 pm
Quote from: Nïckslïkk2112 on March 19, 2020, 10:26:49 amTwaddle.

What about Macron, shutting France down and letting local elections go ahead.

Give me a 10,000 word dissertation explaining all differences between UK and RoW policies on COVID19 and how this shows all UK actions - solely chosen by Boris Johnson - have exacerbated our situation vis-a-vis the RoW.
It is interesting Taiwan have hardly any cases. China have no new cases.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on March 19, 2020, 13:58:50 pm
Self-isolating as my wife has symptoms. Hopefully I will get them too and can get out and about sooner than 14 days.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on March 19, 2020, 14:01:10 pm
Quote from: Nïckslïkk2112 on March 19, 2020, 10:26:49 amTwaddle.

What about Macron, shutting France down and letting local elections go ahead.

Give me a 10,000 word dissertation explaining all differences between UK and RoW policies on COVID19 and how this shows all UK actions - solely chosen by Boris Johnson - have exacerbated our situation vis-a-vis the RoW.
Why did it take a week to realise that the herd immunity approach was the wrong one?

Why is testing for COVID 19 only available to people who have been hospitalised or those that can afford the £400 cost to do it privately?

Testing is a vital tool in this battle and the UK Government is choosing not to use it in the community.  Brainless like the current leader of the country

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ETdHq4uX0AUyfmD?format=jpg&name=medium)
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on March 19, 2020, 14:01:47 pm
Quote from: DavidL on March 19, 2020, 13:58:50 pmSelf-isolating as my wife has symptoms. Hopefully I will get them too and can get out and about sooner than 14 days.
Sorry to hear that David
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on March 19, 2020, 14:08:00 pm
Quote from: döm on March 19, 2020, 14:01:10 pm(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ETdHq4uX0AUyfmD?format=jpg&name=medium)
Not a specialist in COVID 19 - type disease, I see.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on March 19, 2020, 14:21:17 pm
The Director General of the WHO agrees...

https://www.who.int/dg/speeches/detail/who-director-general-s-opening-remarks-at-the-media-briefing-on-covid-19---16-march-2020#.XnDQH_m0kMA.twitter (https://www.who.int/dg/speeches/detail/who-director-general-s-opening-remarks-at-the-media-briefing-on-covid-19---16-march-2020#.XnDQH_m0kMA.twitter)
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Nïckslïkk2112 on March 19, 2020, 14:38:51 pm
Quote from: döm on March 19, 2020, 14:21:17 pmThe Director General of the WHO agrees...

https://www.who.int/dg/speeches/detail/who-director-general-s-opening-remarks-at-the-media-briefing-on-covid-19---16-march-2020#.XnDQH_m0kMA.twitter (https://www.who.int/dg/speeches/detail/who-director-general-s-opening-remarks-at-the-media-briefing-on-covid-19---16-march-2020#.XnDQH_m0kMA.twitter)
Bloody Hell, he expects everybody to have two bathrooms! That's rich.

I live in a one bathroomed house. What am I supposed to do for self isolation? I supposedly live in the first world. What will they do in Ethiopia?

Test.Test.Test. Are there enough tests? Are there enough testers?


And FWIW it appears Hugh Pennington is an emeritus professor of bacteriology and not virology. And the e-coli outbreak in 1996 was in central Scotland only.


Isn't it great that hindsight is 20-20.


To cheer you all up, if you're alive today, it means your ancestors got through the Spanish Flu pandemic.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Nïckslïkk2112 on March 19, 2020, 15:15:44 pm
Quote from: DavidL on March 19, 2020, 13:58:50 pmSelf-isolating as my wife has symptoms. Hopefully I will get them too and can get out and about sooner than 14 days.
Serves you bloody well right for visiting a perfidious EU country
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on March 19, 2020, 15:51:56 pm
Quote from: Nïckslïkk2112 on March 19, 2020, 14:38:51 pmBloody Hell, he expects everybody to have two bathrooms! That's rich.

I live in a one bathroomed house. What am I supposed to do for self isolation? I supposedly live in the first world. What will they do in Ethiopia?

Test.Test.Test. Are there enough tests? Are there enough testers?


And FWIW it appears Hugh Pennington is an emeritus professor of bacteriology and not virology. And the e-coli outbreak in 1996 was in central Scotland only.


Isn't it great that hindsight is 20-20.


To cheer you all up, if you're alive today, it means your ancestors got through the Spanish Flu pandemic.
Deflection Nick!  The UK is acting negligently in its lack of testing.

Michel Barnier has tested positive for the Coronavirus
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Matt2112 on March 19, 2020, 18:15:13 pm
Quote from: döm on March 19, 2020, 14:01:10 pmWhy did it take a week to realise that the herd immunity approach was the wrong one?
Possibly a slightly unfair question - evaluation of the required response was and is subject to very rapidly and dynamically changing circumstances, and, crucially, based on "the science", not attention-seekers and hindsight-told-you-so merchants of the Twatterati.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on March 19, 2020, 19:00:18 pm
Quote from: Matt2112 on March 19, 2020, 18:15:13 pmPossibly a slightly unfair question - evaluation of the required response was and is subject to very rapidly and dynamically changing circumstances, and, crucially, based on "the science", not attention-seekers and hindsight-told-you-so merchants of the Twatterati.
People did question it at the time, why it varied so much from the response of many other countries. Many scientists, immunologists and epidemiologists voiced serious concerns too. Even the Daily Mail soon realised that Johnson and the people he relied on were barking up the wrong tree.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8123677/The-dossier-horrified-British-experts.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8123677/The-dossier-horrified-British-experts.html)


At the time people were saying that if 60% of the population contracted the disease, the stats around the World showed that over 5 million people would require hospitalisation and with a mortality rate of 0.7% over 200,000 would die from the disease.

Developing herd immunity without attempting to isolate those most at risk of being seriously harmed by the disease was very callous and I'm pleased to see this has been discarded but how many lives will have been lost by this delay?

Still pubs are allowed to open in the UK.  When will this change ?
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on March 19, 2020, 19:31:25 pm
At least in today's announcement Johnson said that testing rates would increase.  Always so slow to respond though. The country needs quick and decisive not slow and steady.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: rufus the dawg on March 19, 2020, 19:34:41 pm
Quote from: döm on March 19, 2020, 19:31:25 pmAt least in today's announcement Johnson said that testing rates would increase.  Always so slow to respond though. The country needs quick and decisive not slow and steady.
apparently his approval rating have gone up.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Nïckslïkk2112 on March 19, 2020, 20:44:46 pm
Quote from: döm on March 19, 2020, 19:31:25 pmAt least in today's announcement Johnson said that testing rates would increase.  Always so slow to respond though. The country needs quick and decisive not slow and steady.
But are there the resources to be quick and decisive? 
And we still need a test that shows if people have had and recovered from COVID-19

Meanwhile Schools to stay open. As support staff it looks as if Mrs S will have to be in - and probably over the Easter holidays too...
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on March 20, 2020, 09:53:01 am
https://bylinetimes.com/2020/03/18/herd-immunity-timeline-to-a-climb-down/

I hope this won't prove to be as big a mistake as it appears to be.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Nïckslïkk2112 on March 20, 2020, 10:52:30 am
Quote from: döm on March 20, 2020, 09:53:01 amhttps://bylinetimes.com/2020/03/18/herd-immunity-timeline-to-a-climb-down/

I hope this won't prove to be as big a mistake as it appears to be.
What something which isn't actually happening at the moment?

Anyhow, it's always worked in the past. It has to have, we're still here.

Everything has to be black or white these days - if we're still allowed to use that phrase - things come on lots of shades of grey. Unfortunately, with the best will in the world, compromises have to be made. Isn't it the case that the annual flu vaccine is composed of the three most likely flu variants of that flu season? Under the logic of all today's keyboard warriors it should be composde of all possible variants. NOT. GOING. TO. HAPPEN.

Whether you like it or not, some shit will always hit the fan. There are no certainties in this, only probabilities. As with most things in life, it's a matter of how much shit you're prepared to take.

And I'm pissed off by health care workers moaning they can't get the food they want. I can't. All sorts of workers can't. At least I haven't had to eat any Cavallo Nero for three weeks.

Meanwhile: Schools are still open.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: The Letter R on March 20, 2020, 11:10:03 am
Quote from: DavidL on March 19, 2020, 13:58:50 pmSelf-isolating as my wife has symptoms. Hopefully I will get them too and can get out and about sooner than 14 days.
We're a week in - Maria started with symptoms Tuesday last week then me Saturday, as no testing who knows but we are staying in.
Random muscles aches, headache, tiredness, cough, lack of sleep, inability to sleep, no sleep, did I mention it's hard to get to sleep. Whole thing seems to go in waves, you feel shit, then not too bad then shit again, this can happen within a day or one day to the next.
Maria seems to be pretty much over it now, this morning I have sinus blocks and a bit head spinney. Was particularly worried about Maria getting it as she suffers from asthma, I don't have any other health issues and rarely get the flu ( can't remember the last time ). So we've either had a different flu or COV19 - May never know. Never drunk so many tea infusions!! warm water with lemon squeezed in is great too!!
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on March 20, 2020, 12:16:52 pm
Quote from: The Letter R on March 20, 2020, 11:10:03 amWe're a week in - Maria started with symptoms Tuesday last week then me Saturday, as no testing who knows but we are staying in.
Random muscles aches, headache, tiredness, cough, lack of sleep, inability to sleep, no sleep, did I mention it's hard to get to sleep. Whole thing seems to go in waves, you feel shit, then not too bad then shit again, this can happen within a day or one day to the next.
Maria seems to be pretty much over it now, this morning I have sinus blocks and a bit head spinney. Was particularly worried about Maria getting it as she suffers from asthma, I don't have any other health issues and rarely get the flu ( can't remember the last time ). So we've either had a different flu or COV19 - May never know. Never drunk so many tea infusions!! warm water with lemon squeezed in is great too!!
Thanks for that - useful. Is Maria now leaving the house? Will you be leaving the house tomorrow or Sunday?
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Bez on March 20, 2020, 13:29:10 pm
Quote from: The Letter R on March 20, 2020, 11:10:03 amWe're a week in - Maria started with symptoms Tuesday last week then me Saturday, as no testing who knows but we are staying in.
Random muscles aches, headache, tiredness, cough, lack of sleep, inability to sleep, no sleep, did I mention it's hard to get to sleep. Whole thing seems to go in waves, you feel shit, then not too bad then shit again, this can happen within a day or one day to the next.
Maria seems to be pretty much over it now, this morning I have sinus blocks and a bit head spinney. Was particularly worried about Maria getting it as she suffers from asthma, I don't have any other health issues and rarely get the flu ( can't remember the last time ). So we've either had a different flu or COV19 - May never know. Never drunk so many tea infusions!! warm water with lemon squeezed in is great too!!
Hope you both feel better soon, mate...say Hi to Maria for me...
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: zoony on March 20, 2020, 13:39:56 pm
Quote from: The Letter R on March 20, 2020, 11:10:03 amWe're a week in - Maria started with symptoms Tuesday last week then me Saturday, as no testing who knows but we are staying in.
Random muscles aches, headache, tiredness, cough, lack of sleep, inability to sleep, no sleep, did I mention it's hard to get to sleep. Whole thing seems to go in waves, you feel shit, then not too bad then shit again, this can happen within a day or one day to the next.
Maria seems to be pretty much over it now, this morning I have sinus blocks and a bit head spinney. Was particularly worried about Maria getting it as she suffers from asthma, I don't have any other health issues and rarely get the flu ( can't remember the last time ). So we've either had a different flu or COV19 - May never know. Never drunk so many tea infusions!! warm water with lemon squeezed in is great too!!
Take it steady both of you.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Bisto on March 20, 2020, 13:50:07 pm
Quote from: The Letter R on March 20, 2020, 11:10:03 amWe're a week in - Maria started with symptoms Tuesday last week then me Saturday, as no testing who knows but we are staying in.
Random muscles aches, headache, tiredness, cough, lack of sleep, inability to sleep, no sleep, did I mention it's hard to get to sleep. Whole thing seems to go in waves, you feel shit, then not too bad then shit again, this can happen within a day or one day to the next.
Maria seems to be pretty much over it now, this morning I have sinus blocks and a bit head spinney. Was particularly worried about Maria getting it as she suffers from asthma, I don't have any other health issues and rarely get the flu ( can't remember the last time ). So we've either had a different flu or COV19 - May never know. Never drunk so many tea infusions!! warm water with lemon squeezed in is great too!!
Hope you're both over it soon. See you on the other side.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: captainkurtz on March 20, 2020, 16:26:18 pm
Keith and DavidL - best wishes to you both, keep checking in and letting us know how you're doing.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Nïckslïkk2112 on March 20, 2020, 17:00:35 pm
Quote from: Bisto on March 20, 2020, 13:50:07 pmSee you on the other side.
That sounds a bit Troubling to me...

Just to cheer you all up: Remember kiddies, there are already four types of coronavirus circulating in humans - they cause the Common Cold. When was the last time you received a Common Cold vaccination? Just sayin'...
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Slim on March 20, 2020, 22:00:40 pm
All love and best wishes to anyone who's suffering from this, for whatever reason. I could barely believe the set of measures in the Chancellor's announcement. Absolutely amazing times.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: rufus the dawg on March 20, 2020, 23:22:35 pm
To everyone one above get well and stay safe. 



My step daughter has it and is staying in bed. She lives in Brixton but was at home last weekend.

My wife and I both feel rather weird this week. Flu like symptoms and symptoms like the CV19 virus. We are feeling a much better today.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: rufus the dawg on March 20, 2020, 23:34:58 pm
Quote from: Slim on March 20, 2020, 22:00:40 pmAll love and best wishes to anyone who's suffering from this, for whatever reason. I could barely believe the set of measures in the Chancellor's announcement. Absolutely amazing times.
Capitalism is failing right in front of our very eyes.. Your thinking that individuals should look after themselves is now completely failing. 

Individuals are needing society and help.The people looking after themselves by panic buying are being castigated by society and have been regulated. It just shows how the country is financed and capitalised does not work.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Matt2112 on March 20, 2020, 23:44:34 pm
Quote from: Nïckslïkk2112 on March 20, 2020, 17:00:35 pmThat sounds a bit Troubling to me...

Just to cheer you all up: Remember kiddies, there are already four types of coronavirus circulating in humans - they cause the Common Cold. When was the last time you received a Common Cold vaccination? Just sayin'...
When was the last time folk received a seasonal flu vaccination?

January for me. :)
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: pdw1 on March 21, 2020, 00:29:47 am
Quote from: The Letter R on March 20, 2020, 11:10:03 amWe're a week in - Maria started with symptoms Tuesday last week then me Saturday, as no testing who knows but we are staying in.
Random muscles aches, headache, tiredness, cough, lack of sleep, inability to sleep, no sleep, did I mention it's hard to get to sleep. Whole thing seems to go in waves, you feel shit, then not too bad then shit again, this can happen within a day or one day to the next.
Maria seems to be pretty much over it now, this morning I have sinus blocks and a bit head spinney. Was particularly worried about Maria getting it as she suffers from asthma, I don't have any other health issues and rarely get the flu ( can't remember the last time ). So we've either had a different flu or COV19 - May never know. Never drunk so many tea infusions!! warm water with lemon squeezed in is great too!!
Sorry to hear that but good to hear you are both on the mend.
Hope you are off the infusions and back on the beer soon.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: pdw1 on March 21, 2020, 00:31:44 am
Quote from: Slim on March 20, 2020, 22:00:40 pmAll love and best wishes to anyone who's suffering from this, for whatever reason. I could barely believe the set of measures in the Chancellor's announcement. Absolutely amazing times.
Corbyn's manifesto implemented by Boris. Who'd have thought it possible?
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Matt2112 on March 21, 2020, 03:29:40 am
Quote from: pdw1 on March 21, 2020, 00:31:44 amCorbyn's manifesto implemented by Boris. Who'd have thought it possible?
Yes, only Corbyn's manifesto is demonstrably crazy for normal times, and normal for crazy times.

I'm very glad we were spared the former scenario - where would we be now had it come to pass?
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Slim on March 21, 2020, 10:41:30 am
Quote from: rufus the dawg on March 20, 2020, 23:34:58 pmCapitalism is failing right in front of our very eyes.. Your thinking that individuals should look after themselves is now completely failing.
There is no possible system of economics or government that wouldn't be failing under the present circumstances. It's only possible to provide the necessary help, insofar as it can be provided, because capitalism works magnificently.

Or can you point me to a socialist economy that's currently thriving in the pandemic?
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: rufus the dawg on March 21, 2020, 11:01:37 am
Quote from: Slim on March 21, 2020, 10:41:30 amThere is no possible system of economics or government that wouldn't be failing under the present circumstances. It's only possible to provide the necessary help, insofar as it can be provided, because capitalism works magnificently.

Or can you point me to a socialist economy that's currently thriving in the pandemic?
It is not about socialism v capitalism. Socialism is capitalism with some regulation on. Do you mean communism?

Capitalism will be giving the country since the financial crisis nearly £3 trillion of national debt and thisdoes not include company and personal debt. With the on going problem that capitalism is the main cause of the climate crisis.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Slim on March 21, 2020, 11:40:52 am
Quote from: rufus the dawg on March 21, 2020, 11:01:37 amIt is not about socialism v capitalism. Socialism is capitalism with some regulation on. Do you mean communism?
No, I assumed you meant socialism. But please feel free to suggest any political / economic system that would withstand the current situation as well as the Western, capitalist economies?

I have to wonder where you think the money is coming from, to provide people with grants and handouts. Or medical treatment. If you walk into an NHS hospital everything you'll see in there, from the buttons on the nurses' uniforms to the carpets, to the hinges and handles on the doors to the medicines, to MRI scanners, dialysis machines and ventilators is there because : capitalism. The profit motive and competition.

I have to wonder how Venezuela, under Corbyn's "better way of doing things" is faring at the moment. A couple of years ago their hospitals were having to go without basic medicines and even soap in the bathrooms, and that was at the best of times. No viral pandemic in sight.

I've just read that they're currently begging the IMF for money like we had to in the '70s, the last time a UK socialist government ran out of other people's money.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: zoony on March 21, 2020, 11:52:27 am
We were down the Kidderminster branch of Sainsburys for our usual big weekly shop this morning, and bear in mind that it is a huge store. We were there 20 minutes before they opened at 7, and there was already a healthy queue. When it opened, there was already no toilet rolls, pasta or any freezer stuff in there already! One of the women who works there said that we'd done the right thing getting there at opening time though, as by 10am, there is next to nothing left. Items are limited now, so I saw no evidence of panic buying, just people trying to get their normal shopping. Managed to get a few things from the couple of stores we have in the village on the way back. Hopefully things will pick up, but who can tell?
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on March 21, 2020, 11:58:15 am
It'll be interesting to see how many people contributing to tnms will have caught the virus by the time we're through this.

I imagine most of us will have caught  it by the time it's over. The crucial thing is how quickly that happens. The slower the better, if the example here is reflective of the wider society. Hopefully the self isolation, distancing recommendations and the  closure of restaurants pubs etc and the partial closure of schools will slow the spread enough to allow the health services to be able to cope.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: zoony on March 21, 2020, 12:01:52 pm
Quote from: döm on March 21, 2020, 11:58:15 amIt'll be interesting to see how many people contributing to tnms will have caught the virus by the time we're through this.

I imagine most of us will have caught  it by the time it's over. The crucial thing is how quickly that happens. The slower the better, if the example here is reflective of the wider society. Hopefully the self isolation, distancing recommendations and the  closure of restaurants pubs etc and the partial closure of schools will slow the spread enough to allow the health services to be able to cope.
I've had a runny nose for weeks now, but feel OK otherwise.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Bez on March 21, 2020, 14:40:35 pm
Quote from: döm on March 21, 2020, 11:58:15 amIt'll be interesting to see how many people contributing to tnms will have caught the virus by the time we're through this.

I imagine most of us will have caught  it by the time it's over. The crucial thing is how quickly that happens. The slower the better, if the example here is reflective of the wider society. Hopefully the self isolation, distancing recommendations and the  closure of restaurants pubs etc and the partial closure of schools will slow the spread enough to allow the health services to be able to cope.
Keith (and Maria) seem to have it...all OK here so far

Mrs B, Bez juinior & g/f are teachers, so all panning to be in work next week. Junior 2 is a firefighter and is in covering today for undefined sickness

I'm on 7x24 hour call out for network issues across the county I work for (and others) including acute hospitals that we don't normally support.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: pdw1 on March 21, 2020, 15:14:04 pm
Quote from: The Letter R on March 20, 2020, 11:10:03 amWe're a week in - Maria started with symptoms Tuesday last week then me Saturday, as no testing who knows but we are staying in.
Random muscles aches, headache, tiredness, cough, lack of sleep, inability to sleep, no sleep, did I mention it's hard to get to sleep. Whole thing seems to go in waves, you feel shit, then not too bad then shit again, this can happen within a day or one day to the next.
Maria seems to be pretty much over it now, this morning I have sinus blocks and a bit head spinney. Was particularly worried about Maria getting it as she suffers from asthma, I don't have any other health issues and rarely get the flu ( can't remember the last time ). So we've either had a different flu or COV19 - May never know. Never drunk so many tea infusions!! warm water with lemon squeezed in is great too!!
Keith, don't if you have seen but both Gary Holt (Exodus & Slayer) and Will Carrol drummer with Death Angel have Coronavirus. Will Carrol is in intensive care.
https://blabbermouth.net/news/gary-holt-says-death-angels-will-carroll-is-very-ill-hes-way-worse-that-anything-im-dealing-with/
Wonder if you all picked it up at the same The Bay Strikes Back gig earlier this month?
Hope you all pull through.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Matt2112 on March 21, 2020, 15:39:17 pm
Our MD was back in the office yesterday after 14 days precautionary self-isolation subsequent to a business trip abroad - had no symptoms and actually looked in very fine fettle with a demeanour to match, so that at least was a great morale-booster. He and the CEO voluntarily aren't taking a wage at the moment to ease an inevitable hit the company will take (they can afford to, but still).

The sales staff are on work-from-home rotas and the office building is being deep-cleaned this weekend.  Hopefully these and other contingency plans in place will help see us through. 

What was received like manna from heaven for us was the Government's announcement yesterday which specifically mentioned measures for our sector - hospitality/events - as well as, of course, the remarkable announcement regarding the protection of salaries up to £2,500 a month; more than the national average wage, I believe? (EDIT: checked - appears to be about the average).

In the meantime, we seem to have dropped very lucky with our working and child-care arrangements: the little 'un can still go to our child-minder if necessary, as she is Ofsted-registered, and my partner and co-habitee Indie Lass is categorised as a key-worker, working as she does for one of the big banks. Another bonus is that she is currently on precautionary fully paid leave for 2 weeks, which of course will save on child care costs.

We're all doing well - I feel particularly good as I've been getting some interval training sessions in recently, so the endorphins are flowing.  For now, then, so far, so good.

Really hope things all work out for the best for everyone - my best you all.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Nïckslïkk2112 on March 22, 2020, 01:01:44 am
Why predicted COVID-10 deaths predicted by models may not be what they predict

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-51979654 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-51979654)
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on March 22, 2020, 02:39:19 am
The stats show that the UK is on exactly the same trajectory as Italy, just 2 weeks behind.

Extremely worrying when you consider his slow the UK was to start taking measures...

https://twitter.com/MaryCreaghMP/status/1241453115456532480?s=19
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: pdw1 on March 22, 2020, 11:11:35 am
Anathema are the first band I know of who have been hit hard financially by the Coronavirus shut down.
With their tour cancelled a third of the way through it looks like the band are in trouble financially.

https://www.gofundme.com/f/were-home-because-were-home?utm_source=customer&utm_medium=copy_link-tip&utm_campaign=p_cp+share-sheet

Looks like its a good time to buy that vinyl or T-Shirt you always wanted.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: pxr5 on March 22, 2020, 13:50:37 pm
^^ Pendragon have been hit too

https://www.t-n-m-s.com/index.php?topic=36738.msg1269818#msg1269818 (https://www.t-n-m-s.com/index.php?topic=36738.msg1269818#msg1269818)
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: zoony on March 22, 2020, 23:18:58 pm
My eldest lad, Brad is really worried now as his fiancee is expecting their second child on the 13th of April at Telford hospital, which had a coronavirus death last week. I've tried to calm him by saying that they're both young, fit and healthy. I noticed that where we live in the West midlands, it's now the area with the most cases barring London. Just heard on the news that all the people in the vulnerable group will be receiving letters from tomorrow telling them to self isolate at home for 3 months. I fear I may be in this group with the medication that I'm on. I expect more serious measures to be enforced in the next few days.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: rufus the dawg on March 23, 2020, 10:18:12 am
(https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/eedb073db54bc7a4ddf3fd1dc6601e4973877386/0_0_3035_1819/master/3035.jpg?width=940&quality=85&auto=format&fit=max&s=0bda3961f0212f6e7dbcb7d517b6fa73)
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: rufus the dawg on March 23, 2020, 10:43:17 am
Below is the imperial college report, this is why thankfully Boris Johnson U turned from herd immunity. I take my hat of to him doing so but it is way to late. What else could he do. It took me 1 minute 2 months go to work out the death rate and how many people could die. What are these politicians thinking? expendable? Boris Johnson did write an article about over population and population control way back in 2007 http://www.boris-johnson.com/2007/10/25/global-population-control/ (http://www.boris-johnson.com/2007/10/25/global-population-control/) 

https://www.imperial.ac.uk/media/imperial-college/medicine/sph/ide/gida-fellowships/Imperial-College-COVID19-NPI-modelling-16-03-2020.pdf (https://www.imperial.ac.uk/media/imperial-college/medicine/sph/ide/gida-fellowships/Imperial-College-COVID19-NPI-modelling-16-03-2020.pdf)

from the Boston post

To reduce deaths by at least hundreds of thousands, top infectious disease specialists at Imperial College London recently projected (https://www.imperial.ac.uk/media/imperial-college/medicine/sph/ide/gida-fellowships/Imperial-College-COVID19-NPI-modelling-16-03-2020.pdf) that the United States should expect to have rolling periods of social distancing and school closures through late 2021. In each period, the measures would last about two months, relax for one month, then resume for two more. The specialists suggested using the number of coronavirus patients in intensive-care unit beds, based on the country's peak intensive care unit capacity, as a trigger for restarting the restrictions.

For example, the Imperial College model projected that 510,000 people would die in two years in Great Britain without action. But the death toll would fall to 39,000 if the social distancing measures restarted every time the patient count in ICUs hit 400, or could shrink to 8,700 deaths if the trigger were 60 ICU patients.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: rufus the dawg on March 23, 2020, 10:47:43 am
Quote from: zoony on March 22, 2020, 23:18:58 pmMy eldest lad, Brad is really worried now as his fiancee is expecting their second child on the 13th of April at Telford hospital, which had a coronavirus death last week. I've tried to calm him by saying that they're both young, fit and healthy. I noticed that where we live in the West midlands, it's now the area with the most cases barring London. Just heard on the news that all the people in the vulnerable group will be receiving letters from tomorrow telling them to self isolate at home for 3 months. I fear I may be in this group with the medication that I'm on. I expect more serious measures to be enforced in the next few days.
Shropshire has only three cases, but the UK government does not test so that figure is probably wrong. Powys has 10 cases. Powys is one of the least populated counties in the UK so it will take time to spread.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Bisto on March 23, 2020, 10:52:23 am
McDonald's and Nandos closing indefinitely from tonight

Sir Philip Green sacks Topshop staff an hour before the Government makes protected wage pledge....clearly tipped off by an insider....again.....this on top of many unofficial allegations of sexual abuse and Racism ...surely he should have his Knighthood revoked...amongst other more severe and brutal punishments?!
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Bisto on March 23, 2020, 11:05:16 am
Quote from: rufus the dawg on March 23, 2020, 10:43:17 amBelow is the imperial college report, this is why thankfully Boris Johnson U turned from herd immunity. I take my hat of to him doing so but it is way to late. What else could he do. It took me 1 minute 2 months go to work out the death rate and how many people could die. What are these politicians thinking? expendable? Boris Johnson did write an article about over population and population control way back in 2007 http://www.boris-johnson.com/2007/10/25/global-population-control/ (http://www.boris-johnson.com/2007/10/25/global-population-control/)

https://www.imperial.ac.uk/media/imperial-college/medicine/sph/ide/gida-fellowships/Imperial-College-COVID19-NPI-modelling-16-03-2020.pdf (https://www.imperial.ac.uk/media/imperial-college/medicine/sph/ide/gida-fellowships/Imperial-College-COVID19-NPI-modelling-16-03-2020.pdf)

from the Boston post

To reduce deaths by at least hundreds of thousands, top infectious disease specialists at Imperial College London recently projected (https://www.imperial.ac.uk/media/imperial-college/medicine/sph/ide/gida-fellowships/Imperial-College-COVID19-NPI-modelling-16-03-2020.pdf) that the United States should expect to have rolling periods of social distancing and school closures through late 2021. In each period, the measures would last about two months, relax for one month, then resume for two more. The specialists suggested using the number of coronavirus patients in intensive-care unit beds, based on the country's peak intensive care unit capacity, as a trigger for restarting the restrictions.

For example, the Imperial College model projected that 510,000 people would die in two years in Great Britain without action. But the death toll would fall to 39,000 if the social distancing measures restarted every time the patient count in ICUs hit 400, or could shrink to 8,700 deaths if the trigger were 60 ICU patients.

Of course this is a novel virus and the science, data and modelling will change over time as the realites are better understood, but it's the fact that they're already preparing (at least theoretically) for this to be a seasonal, flu like phenomena that we all have to get into our heads....this isn't going away, it's going to become the new norm...until it isn't and something else takes over.

This is what the Governments of the world need to/should be telling us but can't/wont through fear of the breakdown of social order, or because of the need to manage resources, the economy, the political messages they want to put out (and legislation) etc;....its not possible to completely isolate this virus, it is highly contagious, it's going to be with us for the foreseeable future and it's going to kill a lot of vulnerable people

Either it is or it isn't a deliberate man made event, but the genie is out of the bottle and it's unlikely to go back in; what matters is how we survive it and live with it from now on.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Slim on March 23, 2020, 14:10:15 pm
Quote from: rufus the dawg on March 23, 2020, 10:43:17 amBelow is the imperial college report, this is why thankfully Boris Johnson U turned from herd immunity. I take my hat of to him doing so but it is way to late. What else could he do. It took me 1 minute 2 months go to work out the death rate and how many people could die. What are these politicians thinking? expendable? Boris Johnson did write an article about over population and population control way back in 2007 http://www.boris-johnson.com/2007/10/25/global-population-control/ (http://www.boris-johnson.com/2007/10/25/global-population-control/)

https://www.imperial.ac.uk/media/imperial-college/medicine/sph/ide/gida-fellowships/Imperial-College-COVID19-NPI-modelling-16-03-2020.pdf (https://www.imperial.ac.uk/media/imperial-college/medicine/sph/ide/gida-fellowships/Imperial-College-COVID19-NPI-modelling-16-03-2020.pdf)

from the Boston post

It's a mistake to believe everything you read in the left-wing press. The government hasn't U-turned from anything. It has considered the best scientific evidence at every step, and has reacted to new information and circumstances as they arrive. I don't believe that the government has any reason to regret its strategy from day one.

I'm almost as impressed as you are by your speed of arithmetic but I don't think it's equipped you to take over from the government's chief scientific adviser and medical officer, just yet.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: rufus the dawg on March 23, 2020, 15:20:22 pm
Quote from: Slim on March 23, 2020, 14:10:15 pmIt's a mistake to believe everything you read in the left-wing press. The government hasn't U-turned from anything. It has considered the best scientific evidence at every step, and has reacted to new information and circumstances as they arrive. I don't believe that the government has any reason to regret its strategy from day one.

I'm almost as impressed as you are by your speed of arithmetic but I don't think it's equipped you to take over from the government's chief scientific adviser and medical officer, just yet.
imperial college report is left wing press. very very odd remark. You are impressed that the governments first policy was to let up half million people die. Wow slim I mean WOW WOW words fail me in your backing of Johnson and the conservative party.

Thank god he changed tack. Call it what you will. He was 2 months behind the curve to busy getting Brexit done!
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Slim on March 23, 2020, 15:45:58 pm
Quote from: rufus the dawg on March 23, 2020, 15:20:22 pmimperial college report is left wing press. very very odd remark. You are impressed that the governments first policy was to let up half million people die. Wow slim I mean WOW WOW words fail me in your backing of Johnson and the conservative party.

Thank god he changed tack. Call it what you will. He was 2 months behind the curve to busy getting Brexit done!

No, Rufus. You are entirely wrong. Let me help. The Imperial College report has not criticised the government's actions, and nor has the government changed tack. You are not following this properly - which would be absolutely fine, if you didn't insist in commenting on it in public as if you knew what you were talking about.

As stated from the very outset, the government's approach - as outlined by Professor Whitty and the Prime Minister - has been to introduce new measures at the point that they are judged most effective. Just because a different set of measures is in place this week from last week, or last week from the week before, does not mean that the government has changed tack. Remember that this is informed by behavioural as well as medical science.

Certain publications such as the Guardian are currently trying to score cheap points against the government by taking advantage of people's confusion and misunderstanding. I accept that in some cases the 'journalists' who write for these sources may be confused themselves.

The great danger in this, and why I find it so very contemptible, is that in trying to erode confidence in the government's strategy and authority, they will encourage some people to ignore the best possible advice. And in doing so, they might end up using up valuable resources, or even kill themselves, or someone else.

They are literally playing politics with the lives of the most vulnerable. My strong advice would be not to help them.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: rufus the dawg on March 23, 2020, 21:35:56 pm
No Slim his actions have been to slow.

He did not lock down airports from cinvected countries, so the virus spread completely throughout the country.

He did not close schools early enough

On 12th of march he stopped all minor testing against what WHO advice

On 13t march UK government announces herd immunity and is slammed by WHO

On 17th march Imperial College London took the model the government were using and said suppressing the virus was the best way of stopping large numbers of deaths.

 A few days later they did a complete u turn

As I speak BJ is saying the whole country is in lock down. This should have been done at least a month ago. Lets hope it works.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Matt2112 on March 23, 2020, 23:37:07 pm
Boris announces a "lock-down" without using the words; probably a smart move.

I was dreading being told I cannot go into work from tomorrow, so when he announced I could, I actually punched the air in relief and gratitude.  If I could work from home I would - like our sales staff can, and are doing - but I genuinely can't, so...I can't.

I'm just hoping going out to get a little something for lunch counts as shopping for essential items...
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on March 24, 2020, 00:39:38 am
Where is the planning, what evidence do we have of a  staged process where Cheltenham was allowed to go ahead, bringing a quarter of a million people together 2 weeks ago. 

Where football, rugby etc etc had to decide for themselves that they should stop!

Where large concerts such as the Stereophonics UK Tour was allowed to continue until very recently.

The recommendation that people shouldn't attend pubs, restaurants etc without forcing them to close.

I'd love to see the planning documentation that led to those decisions and now less than 2 weeks later the country is close to lockdown.

To me it looks like a Government working without a plan, but making it up as they go along.

And this despite the fact that the UK could see what was coming, an opportunity that wasn't afforded to many other countries.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Slim on March 24, 2020, 00:56:54 am
Quote from: rufus the dawg on March 23, 2020, 21:35:56 pmNo Slim his actions have been to slow.

He did not lock down airports from cinvected countries, so the virus spread completely throughout the country.

He did not close schools early enough

On 12th of march he stopped all minor testing against what WHO advice

On 13t march UK government announces herd immunity and is slammed by WHO

On 17th march Imperial College London took the model the government were using and said suppressing the virus was the best way of stopping large numbers of deaths.

 A few days later they did a complete u turn

As I speak BJ is saying the whole country is in lock down. This should have been done at least a month ago. Lets hope it works.

No, rufus. What you say is as wrong as it was last time, and no doubt will be next time. The government may have reacted to new information and circumstances as any government would in an unpredictable and dynamic situation, but it has timed the steps and measures it has taken carefully and properly on all available evidence at the time it was available. It has taken advice from behavioural scientists who know more about their discipline than you do, it has made no u-turns, and I have been extremely impressed by, and grateful for, the government's very assured handling of this crisis.

I think possibly the most frankly ridiculous thing you said there is that the "government announced herd immunity".

You're far more interested in sensationalist guff in the left wing press I know and you won't bother to read the following and actually learn something, but for the benefit of others who might want to understand this a little better, this was Matt Hancock's response to the drivel that was going around over a week ago:


https://www.gov.uk/government/news/health-secretary-matt-hancocks-sunday-telegraph-op-ed

We have a plan, based on the expertise of world-leading scientists. Herd immunity is not a part of it. That is a scientific concept, not a goal or a strategy. Our goal is to protect life from this virus, our strategy is to protect the most vulnerable and protect the NHS through contain, delay, research and mitigate.

We are working through our clear action plan. Like all our decisions, the plan is based on the bedrock of the science, with maximum transparency. We will do the right thing at the right time, based on the best available science.

To protect life, we must protect the vulnerable, and protect the NHS and flatten the curve.

From the moment coronavirus emerged, we have followed those goals.

We have acted to contain the spread of the virus so far. We have carried out some of the highest number of tests in Europe, our surveillance testing is among the most sophisticated in the world and the UK's plans for the rapid response to and mitigation of the spread of an epidemic are ranked number one above any other country by the Global Health Security Index.

I'm typing this to defend vulnerable people from misinformation in a crisis. Stop doing it.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Slim on March 24, 2020, 01:09:01 am
I must say, I'm probably one of the fortunate ones. I don't have kids, I work from home already. And even the measures announced by the PM tonight don't make a huge difference to my lifestyle.

Imagine a life in which you work from home the whole time, and leave the house only to go out on a bike or to Tesco. Well - apart from holidays and a visit to a restaurant or a pub once every couple of weeks or so - and maybe a BSP gig two or three times a year, that was pretty my life before I ever heard of COVID-19.

I had BSP gigs coming up in May and June. The May one has been moved to October. I think the June one will move as well.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: zoony on March 24, 2020, 09:48:47 am
This is the way I see it. If all what are classed as non essential businesses and workplaces are forced to shutdown by the government, and workers wages are guaranteed, we would all do it. The trouble is that if you are not ordered to, you are still going to carry on working because there are still millions of people out there, myself included who worry more about having the money to pay the bills and buy food to survive, than the risk of getting a virus. I work in an aluminium rolling factory, which to my mind is non essential, but I've just learned that our MD has sent an email out to say we are as the coils we send out to some of our customers is used in the pharmaceutical industry, and for food packaging. Still we wait for an announcement of what is going to happen at our site, and how our income is going to be affected. These are indeed very strange and worrying times that none of us have ever experienced before.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: The Letter R on March 24, 2020, 16:33:25 pm
First day today that we're both actually feeling somewhere near "human" again.
The sore throat came back in the night but subsided before morning, nights really aren't good.
However today I actually don't feel shivery, the cough has all but gone and my head is a lot clearer.
Maria still has some muscle aches.
Maria has not left the house since March 11th and I haven't since returning from work on Friday 13th.
It's just possible we are at the end now but I lived with this one for too long to take a good day for granted but fingers crossed. May venture out for some essentials later in week when we shouldn't be infectious anymore.
We're lucky to have a garden!!!!

Thanks for all the wishes and stay safe folks!
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Nïckslïkk2112 on March 24, 2020, 16:56:39 pm
Good to hear that Mr R. Hope you both continue on your upwards trajectory :)

I'm now working from home. I drew the short straw yesterday. YAY!
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Bez on March 24, 2020, 18:14:17 pm
Quote from: The Letter R on March 24, 2020, 16:33:25 pmFirst day today that we're both actually feeling somewhere near "human" again.
The sore throat came back in the night but subsided before morning, nights really aren't good.
However today I actually don't feel shivery, the cough has all but gone and my head is a lot clearer.
Maria still has some muscle aches.
Maria has not left the house since March 11th and I haven't since returning from work on Friday 13th.
It's just possible we are at the end now but I lived with this one for too long to take a good day for granted but fingers crossed. May venture out for some essentials later in week when we shouldn't be infectious anymore.
We're lucky to have a garden!!!!

Thanks for all the wishes and stay safe folks!
Good news, mate....great to hear that you're both on the mend...
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: pdw1 on March 24, 2020, 19:05:55 pm
Quote from: The Letter R on March 24, 2020, 16:33:25 pmFirst day today that we're both actually feeling somewhere near "human" again.
The sore throat came back in the night but subsided before morning, nights really aren't good.
However today I actually don't feel shivery, the cough has all but gone and my head is a lot clearer.
Maria still has some muscle aches.
Maria has not left the house since March 11th and I haven't since returning from work on Friday 13th.
It's just possible we are at the end now but I lived with this one for too long to take a good day for granted but fingers crossed. May venture out for some essentials later in week when we shouldn't be infectious anymore.
We're lucky to have a garden!!!!

Thanks for all the wishes and stay safe folks!
Glad to hear you are both on the mend, Sounds horrible. Not looking forward to going down with it which I am sure I will at some point.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Nïckslïkk2112 on March 24, 2020, 19:35:05 pm
Meanwhile, in the land of Tinkers, Vagabonds and bogtrotters, Leo Verucca has only just got round to announcing this:

QuoteNew measures against the outbreak have been announced in the Republic of Ireland (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-52026545).

Taoiseach Leo Varadkar said theatres, playgrounds, clubs and gyms are to shut, while most outdoor gatherings of more than four people could be broken up by police.


Just sayin'...
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on March 24, 2020, 19:46:05 pm
Quote from: Nïckslïkk2112 on March 24, 2020, 19:35:05 pmMeanwhile, in the land of Tinkers, Vagabonds and bogtrotters, Leo Verucca has only just got round to announcing this:


Just sayin'...
Theatres were already shut!

And it must be a worry that until yesterday every step of the way Ireland has been ahead of the UK in implementing measures!
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Bisto on March 24, 2020, 20:00:26 pm
Quote from: döm on March 24, 2020, 19:46:05 pmTheatres were already shut!

And it must be a worry that until yesterday every step of the way Ireland has been ahead of the UK in implementing measures!
It didn't help that the Cheltenham festival went ahead...bound to be a lot of infections taken back to Ireland after that.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on March 24, 2020, 20:15:32 pm
Quote from: Bisto on March 24, 2020, 20:00:26 pmIt didn't help that the Cheltenham festival went ahead...bound to be a lot of infections taken back to Ireland after that.
And probably some brought over from Ireland too. Unbelievable that it went ahead
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: zoony on March 24, 2020, 20:34:28 pm
Quote from: The Letter R on March 24, 2020, 16:33:25 pmFirst day today that we're both actually feeling somewhere near "human" again.
The sore throat came back in the night but subsided before morning, nights really aren't good.
However today I actually don't feel shivery, the cough has all but gone and my head is a lot clearer.
Maria still has some muscle aches.
Maria has not left the house since March 11th and I haven't since returning from work on Friday 13th.
It's just possible we are at the end now but I lived with this one for too long to take a good day for granted but fingers crossed. May venture out for some essentials later in week when we shouldn't be infectious anymore.
We're lucky to have a garden!!!!

Thanks for all the wishes and stay safe folks!
Pleased to hear that mate.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Nïckslïkk2112 on March 24, 2020, 22:43:35 pm
Quote from: döm on March 24, 2020, 20:15:32 pmAnd probably some brought over from Ireland too. Unbelievable that it went ahead
Some? Lowlife Irish Tinkers and Vagabonds will be riddled with it and worse!
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: captainkurtz on March 24, 2020, 22:53:55 pm
REALLY pleased to read your post, Keith.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Matt2112 on March 24, 2020, 23:06:33 pm
Really great news from you Keith, really pleased for you both. :)

Following the announcement last night my employers limited the number of staff in the office to two; hence my desk is now my kitchen table until Friday, when I'm back in the office for the day.  Making do and mending in the meantime; always something to be getting on with.

Got out for an hour or so with the dog on a very mild and pleasant evening; the local park was deserted so I blasted out a quick session of interval training.  So quite a productive day all told! :)
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Slim on March 25, 2020, 00:59:12 am
Went out for a walk with 'er indoors at about 5:20pm. Nice mild, spring afternoon, plenty of sunshine. Only about 1.5 miles. Walked past the village shop and popped in to see if they had any bread. They did. The woman behind the till and I stood as far back as was humanly possible from each other as I paid for it. We both laughed. She told me she'd had to tell other customers to stand back. She was wearing blue latex gloves. I studiously avoided touching my face until I got home, and I wiped the bread down thoroughly with a surface wipe after washing my hands. Mad times.

A few other people out walking dogs, or just walking. Some looked a bit frightened.

Nice one Keith, I suspect a lot of us have it to come.

I'll be doing my exercise on a bike, tomorrow.

My main concern is shopping for food, but I understand Tesco have introduced some physical distancing measures. All the delivery / click and collect slots are taken for months at the moment, wondering though if they'll expand capacity somehow.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: zoony on March 25, 2020, 11:33:40 am
A lot better system in operation at the Bridgnorth branch of Sainsburys this morning. They were letting a certain amount in, and then any others were only allowed in when somebody came out. Everyone keeping their distances while queuing for the tills, and to get in. Some shelves were noticeably bare, but we were still able to get a lot of items today that were just not available at the Kidderminster branch on Saturday. Wendy made me wipe my hands and the car steering wheel with antiseptic wipes when we came out, but it's hard to get used to these new measures. We've got to though.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Nïckslïkk2112 on March 25, 2020, 12:31:58 pm
Thanks to COVID19 I'm now on Furlough. Wish I'd notice the email telling me about it 2 hours earlier...
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Slim on March 25, 2020, 13:03:00 pm
(http://truth.justdied.com/images/extrcorona.jpg)
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Matt2112 on March 25, 2020, 13:23:52 pm
Quote from: Nïckslïkk2112 on March 25, 2020, 12:31:58 pmThanks to COVID19 I'm now on Furlough. Wish I'd notice the email telling me about it 2 hours earlier...

Ah, bugger, sorry to hear that Mr Sims, if not exactly surprised.  Hope things work out.

Myself, I should get paid in full for March, the expectation being that working hours will continue to be unaffected for the rest of this month.  The thinking is that as things stand, we'll get paid in full for April also, though of course that may well change with little to no notice.  Our group is US-owned, so as all the US employees are grossly overpaid in the first place, they'll be taking any impact before anyone else. ::)
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Matt2112 on March 25, 2020, 13:28:33 pm
Quote from: Slim on March 25, 2020, 13:03:00 pm(http://truth.justdied.com/images/extrcorona.jpg)
This is genuine?  Really, Extinction Rebellion?  Bye, then...
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Nïckslïkk2112 on March 25, 2020, 13:44:11 pm
Quote from: Matt2112 on March 25, 2020, 13:23:52 pmAh, bugger, sorry to hear that Mr Sims, if not exactly surprised.  Hope things work out.

Thanks Mr 2112. It's a good job I had my untaken holidays paid up in March. I'll be getting 80% of salary, so with not now having to buy petrol I'll be OK.

Just need to get things under control and Carpet Shops open for business again. So please, all you people at home, walk around on your carpets as much as possible to wear them out, then when things are back to normal pop out to your local United Carpets store. To all you folk in the South East this will probably entail a trip to Nuneaton...
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Slim on March 25, 2020, 14:59:46 pm
Sorry to hear that Nick, fingers crossed it's all back to normal in a month or three.

Oddly I can feel a touch of cabin fever today, despite having worked from home for years, and I don't usually get it. Perhaps it's the knowledge that I can only go out once a day, even though more than that would be unusual. Or maybe it's the beautiful spring day I can see through the window of my mancave.

Went out to the garage earlier to tinker with a bike. It really is nice out there. A walk to my garage involves leaving my back garden, then crossing a communal car parking area shared with other neighbours. But fortunately I didn't encounter any of them.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: zoony on March 25, 2020, 15:32:31 pm
Quote from: Nïckslïkk2112 on March 25, 2020, 12:31:58 pmThanks to COVID19 I'm now on Furlough. Wish I'd notice the email telling me about it 2 hours earlier...
Sorry about that mate, but I doubt you'll be the last. Things have been tight at our place for months, I've had no OT, and am probably like a lot of people who just about scrape by from month to month. It's when things like car repairs and services come in that it will be a struggle, so 80% of my wage would see us struggling. I suppose there is always the credit card though, and no doubt better times are just around the corner. It has impacted on pensions though, and my plans to get my tax free lump sum when I hit 55 in June will now have to go on hold. The Toronto and New York trip will just have to wait.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Bez on March 25, 2020, 15:51:52 pm
Quote from: zoony on March 25, 2020, 11:33:40 amA lot better system in operation at the Bridgnorth branch of Sainsburys this morning. They were letting a certain amount in, and then any others were only allowed in when somebody came out. Everyone keeping their distances while queuing for the tills, and to get in. Some shelves were noticeably bare, but we were still able to get a lot of items today that were just not available at the Kidderminster branch on Saturday. Wendy made me wipe my hands and the car steering wheel with antiseptic wipes when we came out, but it's hard to get used to these new measures. We've got to though.
Don't forget the gearstick, handbrake, indicators etc in the car, mate :)
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Matt2112 on March 25, 2020, 20:28:01 pm
Beautiful evening tonight.

I was arriving down the park with the dog when it struck me that, apart from the park being deserted, which was again very welcome but not really unusual, there wasn't a cloud in the sky, nor was there any aircraft, no vapour trails (cue: sound of a few cheering TNMSers), barely a breath of wind, just...serenity.

This lasted a lovely few moments, until the spell was broken by the appearance of a British Airways 747 half an hour into its flight from  Heathrow to Vancouver* and the arrival of another dog-walker.

* Yes, I'm one of those saddoes with a flight tracker app.  ::)
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: rufus the dawg on March 26, 2020, 01:33:50 am
Quote from: Slim on March 24, 2020, 00:56:54 amNo, rufus. What you say is as wrong as it was last time, and no doubt will be next time. The government may have reacted to new information and circumstances as any government would in an unpredictable and dynamic situation, but it has timed the steps and measures it has taken carefully and properly on all available evidence at the time it was available. It has taken advice from behavioural scientists who know more about their discipline than you do, it has made no u-turns, and I have been extremely impressed by, and grateful for, the government's very assured handling of this crisis.

I think possibly the most frankly ridiculous thing you said there is that the "government announced herd immunity".

You're far more interested in sensationalist guff in the left wing press I know and you won't bother to read the following and actually learn something, but for the benefit of others who might want to understand this a little better, this was Matt Hancock's response to the drivel that was going around over a week ago:


https://www.gov.uk/government/news/health-secretary-matt-hancocks-sunday-telegraph-op-ed

We have a plan, based on the expertise of world-leading scientists. Herd immunity is not a part of it. That is a scientific concept, not a goal or a strategy. Our goal is to protect life from this virus, our strategy is to protect the most vulnerable and protect the NHS through contain, delay, research and mitigate.

We are working through our clear action plan. Like all our decisions, the plan is based on the bedrock of the science, with maximum transparency. We will do the right thing at the right time, based on the best available science.

To protect life, we must protect the vulnerable, and protect the NHS and flatten the curve.

From the moment coronavirus emerged, we have followed those goals.

We have acted to contain the spread of the virus so far. We have carried out some of the highest number of tests in Europe, our surveillance testing is among the most sophisticated in the world and the UK's plans for the rapid response to and mitigation of the spread of an epidemic are ranked number one above any other country by the Global Health Security Index.

I'm typing this to defend vulnerable people from misinformation in a crisis. Stop doing it.
 Nassim Nicholas Taleb is distinguished professor of risk engineering at New York University's Tandon School of Engineering and author of The Black Swan. Yaneer Bar-Yam is president of the New England Complex System Institute


when, along with applied systems scientist Dr Joe Norman, we first reacted to coronavirus on 25 January with the publication of an academic note urging caution, the virus had reportedly infected fewer than 2,000 people worldwide and fewer than 60 people were dead. That number need not have been so high.
At the time of writing, the numbers are 351,000 and 15,000 respectively (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/23/coronavirus-latest-at-a-glance-mar-23). Our research did not use any complicated model with a vast number of variables, no more than someone watching an avalanche heading in their direction calls for complicated statistical models to see if they need to get out of the way.
We called for a simple exercise of the precautionary principle in a domain where it mattered: interconnected complex systems have some attributes that allow some things to cascade out of control, delivering extreme outcomes. Enact robust measures that would have been, at the time, of small cost: constrain mobility (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/mar/24/uk-lockdown-gove-tries-to-clarify-confusion-over-rules). Immediately. Later, we invoked a rapid investment in preparedness: tests, hospital capacity, means to treat patients. Just in case, you know. Things can happen.
The error in the UK (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/mar/23/europe-views-uk-coronavirus-plan-disbelief) is on two levels. Modelling and policymaking.
First, at the modelling level, the government relied at all stages on epidemiological models that were designed to show us roughly what happens when a preselected set of actions are made, and not what we should make happen, and how.
The modellers use hypotheses/assumptions, which they then feed into models, and use to draw conclusions and make policy recommendations. Critically, they do not produce an error rate. What if these assumptions are wrong? Have they been tested? The answer is often no. For academic papers, this is fine. Flawed theories can provoke discussion. Risk management - like wisdom - requires robustness in models.
But if we base our pandemic response plans on flawed academic models, people die. And they will.

This was the case with the disastrous "herd immunity (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/13/herd-immunity-will-the-uks-coronavirus-strategy-work)" thesis. The idea behind herd immunity was that the outbreak would stop if enough people got sick and gained immunity. Once a critical mass of young people gained immunity, so the epidemiological modellers told us, vulnerable populations (old and sick people) would be protected. Of course, this idea was nothing more than a dressed-up version of the "just do nothing" approach.

Individuals and scientists around the world immediately pointed out the obvious flaws (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/mar/15/epidemiologist-britain-herd-immunity-coronavirus-covid-19): there's no way to ensure only young people get infected; you need 60-70% of the population to be infected and recover to have a shot at herd immunity, and there aren't that many young and healthy people in the UK, or anywhere. Moreover, many young people have severe cases (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/mar/23/scientists-effects-coronavirus-children-studies-carriers) of the disease, overloading healthcare systems, and a not-so-small number of them die. It is not a free ride.

This doesn't even include the possibility, already suspected in some cases, of re (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/feb/27/japanese-woman-tests-positive-for-coronavirus-for-second-time)ccurrence of the disease (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/feb/27/japanese-woman-tests-positive-for-coronavirus-for-second-time). Immunity may not even be reliable for this virus.

Worse, it did not take into account that the duration of hospitalisation can be lengthier than they think, or that one can incur a shortage of hospital beds (https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/mar/20/london-hospitals-struggle-to-cope-with-coronavirus-surge).
Second, but more grave, is the policymaking. No 10 appears to be enamoured with "scientism" - things that have the cosmetic attributes of science but without its rigour. This manifests itself in the nudge group (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/mar/13/why-is-the-government-relying-on-nudge-theory-to-tackle-coronavirus) that engages in experimenting with UK citizens or applying methods from behavioural economics that fail to work outside the university - yet patronise citizens as an insult to their ancestral wisdom and risk-perception apparatus. Social science is in a "replication crisis", where less than half the results replicate (under exact same conditions), less than a tenth can be taken seriously, and less than a hundredth translate into the real world.

So what is called "evidence-based" methods have a dire track record and are pretty much evidence-free. This scientism also manifests itself in Boris Johnson's chief adviser Dominic Cummings's love of complexity and complex systems (our speciality) which he appears to apply incorrectly. And letting a segment of the population die (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/mar/22/no-10-denies-claim-dominic-cummings-argued-to-let-old-people-die) for the sake of the economy is a false dichotomy - aside from the moral repugnance of the idea.
As we said, when one deals with deep uncertainty, both governance and precaution require us to hedge for the worst. While risk-taking is a business that is left to individuals, collective safety and systemic risk are the business of the state. Failing that mandate of prudence by gambling with the lives of citizens is a professional wrongdoing that extends beyond academic mistake; it is a violation of the ethics of governing.
The obvious policy left now is a lockdown, with overactive testing and contact tracing: follow the evidence from China and South Korea (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/mar/20/south-korea-rapid-intrusive-measures-covid-19) rather than thousands of error-prone computer codes. So we have wasted weeks, and ones that matter with a multiplicative threat.

 Nassim Nicholas Taleb is distinguished professor of risk engineering at New York University's Tandon School of Engineering and author of The Black Swan. Yaneer Bar-Yam is president of the New England Complex System Institute
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: rufus the dawg on March 26, 2020, 01:48:35 am
My eldest step daughter is self isolating. She thinks she's had CV19 because my sister in law is a front line doctor and went through her symptoms. She will go back to school roster next week to cover the kids that can not stay at home because the schools are closed. Shes not been tested.

My youngest step daughter is a speech and language therapist in a hospital and she had to self isolate for a week because she treated a patient with suspected CV19 and she became unwell. She is now back at hospital and she refused to treat CV19 patients because she did not have any PPE. She was then on a stroke ward with people with CV19 and she did have PPE. Shes not been tested

My sister in law is a front line doctor in a hospital and in her early 60s and she been told to expect to get CV19. She is very worried. She says the government have not got a clue what they are doing. And that we should be testing way more.

As you can tell from above my wife is very very worried person.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Bez on March 26, 2020, 08:23:23 am
Quote from: rufus the dawg on March 26, 2020, 01:48:35 amMy eldest step daughter is self isolating. She thinks she's had CV19 because my sister in law is a front line doctor and went through her symptoms. She will go back to school roster next week to cover the kids that can not stay at home because the schools are closed. Shes not been tested.

My youngest step daughter is a speech and language therapist in a hospital and she had to self isolate for a week because she treated a patient with suspected CV19 and she became unwell. She is now back at hospital and she refused to treat CV19 patients because she did not have any PPE. She was then on a stroke ward with people with CV19 and she did have PPE. Shes not been tested

My sister in law is a front line doctor in a hospital and in her early 60s and she been told to expect to get CV19. She is very worried. She says the government have not got a clue what they are doing. And that we should be testing way more.

As you can tell from above my wife is very very worried person.
Lack of PPE and testing of front line NHS staff is a real issue.

Government constantly ducking the questions at the daily briefings which implies to me that there's nothing they can do about it due to lack of kit
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on March 26, 2020, 09:08:30 am
Quote from: Bez on March 26, 2020, 08:23:23 amLack of PPE and testing of front line NHS staff is a real issue.

Government constantly ducking the questions at the daily briefings which implies to me that there's nothing they can do about it due to lack of kit
The government's response to lack of equipment and testing kits is woeful. Matt Hancock appears to be lying to try to reassure people whilst covering up the true situation.
Nadhim Zahawi was on Newsnight last night and it was one of the worst performances by a governmemt minister I've ever seen. He could not provide any certainty on deliyery of ventilators. Same with test kits, same with PPE.
You can see it now. Mountains of excess PPE and millions of pounds worth of redundant ventilators sitting in storage at the end of the summer.
People are getting fed up of being told what the government is doing.....it doesn't matter. They want to know what they've DONE! It would be no different with any government, the current crop of politicians just don't posess the skills to steer us through this with confidence.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Nïckslïkk2112 on March 26, 2020, 11:10:49 am
Quote from: rufus the dawg on March 19, 2020, 12:38:59 pmIt is interesting Taiwan have hardly any cases. China have no new cases.
So, that's Taiwan which is determined to keep its borders open, according to today's BBC Coronavirus feed:

QuoteSouth Korea is getting tough on arrivals from overseas and demanding that they download a phone application to track potential symptoms of coronavirus or they will not be granted entry into the country.
Foreigners will also have to abide by the 14-day self-quarantine rule or face deportation.
The government is determined to try to keep its borders open but that comes with an element of risk.
More than half of the reported 100 new Covid-19 cases on Thursday were from international arrivals. All those travelling from Europe are now being tested for coronavirus when they arrive at Incheon International Airport. Stricter entry procedures are also being applied to arrivals from the US.
Even if travellers test negative for the virus, they must spend 14 days in isolation and use the application which is downloaded at the airport to record their symptoms. If they fail to use the app daily, the authorities will track them down.
Prime Minister Chung Sye-kyun said there would be a zero-tolerance approach towards those who violated these terms of entry.
Korean nationals could face legal action and foreigners will be expelled from the country.

Meanwhile, in Chesterfield, Police were called to break up a House Party last night.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on March 26, 2020, 11:57:26 am
Whilst considering hindsight:
It seems obvious now that our love of winter sports has greatly exacerbated the CV-19 crisis (the Austrian resort of Ischgl has been cited as an epicentre of infection). Ski resorts are, perhaps, uniquely designed to do the virus's work. A coming together of people from all around Europe to spend time packed into cable cars and gondolas and then return whence they came, mostly using a flying test tube that helps to germinate the seeds of the disease. What could have been done?
Identify all who had spent time in a European ski resort in the last three months and ensure they were tested? Would those people have voluntarily come forward, knowing the implications? Perhaps they could have been ordered to present themselves at a clinic for testing and escorted by police had they refused. Undoubtedly this approach allied to contact tracing would have helped. I believe, Ischgl exported the disease to Germany, Iceland, Norway and Denmark. As it is a popular destination for Brits, the UK can surely be added to that list too but our lack of testing means it has not been included. A criminal investigation is currently underway after suggestions that infection in the resort was covered up.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/03/24/criminal-investigation-austria-ski-resort-hundreds-infected/

Is it also time to question the wisdom of 'cheek by jowl' living in large cities? For years the government has allowed more and more people to pour into the capital city with no thought as to the consequences (majority of immigration has been to the capital). Transport is overburdened with passengers, who have no choice but to inhale the germs of others everyday. Expansion without any form of control is clearly dangerous. London, New York, Madrid etc. All these overcrowded cities will be hardest hit. Is there ever a time when the number of people living in the same space is considered a major health risk? London is way down the list for the most densely-populated cities but the behaviour of its inhabitants is more important in this context.  The necessity to use crowded transport is probably key.
Wake-up time for humanity.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Bisto on March 26, 2020, 12:44:22 pm
Quote from: DavidL on March 26, 2020, 11:57:26 amWhilst considering hindsight:
It seems obvious now that our love of winter sports has greatly exacerbated the CV-19 crisis (the Austrian resort of Ischgl has been cited as an epicentre of infection). Ski resorts are, perhaps, uniquely designed to do the virus's work. A coming together of people from all around Europe to spend time packed into cable cars and gondolas and then return whence they came, mostly using a flying test tube that helps to germinate the seeds of the disease. What could have been done?
Identify all who had spent time in a European ski resort in the last three months and ensure they were tested? Would those people have voluntarily come forward, knowing the implications? Perhaps they could have been ordered to present themselves at a clinic for testing and escorted by police had they refused. Undoubtedly this approach allied to contact tracing would have helped. I believe, Ischgl exported the disease to Germany, Iceland, Norway and Denmark. As it is a popular destination for Brits, the UK can surely be added to that list too but our lack of testing means it has not been included. A criminal investigation is currently underway after suggestions that infection in the resort was covered up.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/03/24/criminal-investigation-austria-ski-resort-hundreds-infected/

Is it also time to question the wisdom of 'cheek by jowl' living in large cities? For years the government has allowed more and more people to pour into the capital city with no thought as to the consequences (majority of immigration has been to the capital). Transport is overburdened with passengers, who have no choice but to inhale the germs of others everyday. Expansion without any form of control is clearly dangerous. London, New York, Madrid etc. All these overcrowded cities will be hardest hit. Is there ever a time when the number of people living in the same space is considered a major health risk?
Wake-up time for humanity.
I think so too...but what do you propose we do about it when modern, Western style societies, cultures and economies aren't designed or structured to function in any other way?
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: zoony on March 26, 2020, 12:46:53 pm
You'd like to think that with the knowledge in the world these days, they will get on top of this infection quickly. I wonder how they got on top of Spanish flu which came to light in 1918?
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on March 26, 2020, 12:54:24 pm
They only got on top of it after it killed approximately 50 million people Worldwide. Herd immunity was the only method at the time.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on March 26, 2020, 12:56:34 pm
Quote from: Bisto on March 26, 2020, 12:44:22 pmI think so too...but what do you propose we do about it when modern, Western style societies, cultures and economies aren't designed or structured to function in any other way?
Let's face it we are social animals and these diseases naturally exploit that.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on March 26, 2020, 13:22:18 pm
Quote from: Bisto on March 26, 2020, 12:44:22 pmI think so too...but what do you propose we do about it when modern, Western style societies, cultures and economies aren't designed or structured to function in any other way?
Purely addressing the transport issues, we need to employ some different measures to ensure our infrastructure is developed adequately. Let's suppose we use the current social distancing rules as a guide so that during most busy periods, services are designed to maintain those rules. Granted, that would mean probably three-times the amount of trains, buses etc (or a third less people needing to use them). It sounds impossible to achieve, I know. And the possibility that we could close a city to new residents to avoid infrastructure overload seems unthinkable in a liberal society.
There is a possibility, though that working from home will become the new normal for all but those who have no alternative. That would take a huge weight off an inadequate transport network. Could be a game-changer.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Matt2112 on March 26, 2020, 13:25:09 pm
Quote from: Nïckslïkk2112 on March 26, 2020, 11:10:49 amMeanwhile, in Chesterfield, Police were called to break up a House Party last night.

FFS....don't da yoof realise There's A Very Popular App For That..?  It's called - funnily enough - "Houseparty". ::)
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Slim on March 26, 2020, 15:23:27 pm
Rufus either never bothers to read the refutations to the nonsense he types, or he doesn't want to learn. But for those without their eyes closed and their metaphorical fingers jammed in their ears: rest assured, as the Health Secretary stated very clearly, indeed as I transcribed in this very thread:

We have a plan, based on the expertise of world-leading scientists. Herd immunity is not a part of it. That is a scientific concept, not a goal or a strategy. Our goal is to protect life from this virus, our strategy is to protect the most vulnerable and protect the NHS through contain, delay, research and mitigate.

We are working through our clear action plan. Like all our decisions, the plan is based on the bedrock of the science, with maximum transparency. We will do the right thing at the right time, based on the best available science.


It must be very frustrating to keep sniping at a government that keeps winning.

Meanwhile, a thought occurred to me a while ago: there's going to come a point when a substantial number of people have recovered from COVID-19, while a substantial percentage of the population still needs to be protected. Nadine Dorries sat next to Matt Hancock in the Commons on her return to work, on the basis that she is presumed immune; she couldn't infect him or be infected.

But I suspect all of us are still going to be subjected to social distancing in the queue at Tesco and whatever other rules might be in effect, aren't we? Even if we've tested positive for the antibodies. Unless there's going to be some sort of immunity ID card you can apply for, but the logistics for that might be prohibitive. Also it might encourage a few people to try to contract the infection, to get it over with and continue as normal. And actually that might be very beneficial at the moment, in terms of wider society. Interesting one.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: zoony on March 26, 2020, 15:27:30 pm
I think they need to clarify more regarding this one period of exercise that people are allowed. Some people may go out for a long walk, or a bike ride that could take up to 3 hours. Some people who walk their dogs 3 times a day for half an hour at a time, are out there for half the time than the first group of people I mentioned.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Slim on March 26, 2020, 15:28:01 pm
Quote from: DavidL on March 26, 2020, 09:08:30 amThe government's response to lack of equipment and testing kits is woeful. Matt Hancock appears to be lying to try to reassure people whilst covering up the true situation.

Nadhim Zahawi was on Newsnight last night and it was one of the worst performances by a governmemt minister I've ever seen. He could not provide any certainty on deliyery of ventilators. Same with test kits, same with PPE

Perhaps Nadhim was not actually able to provide any certainty - you can't blame the government for circumstances that no-one could have predicted or even imagined a few weeks ago. Or perhaps we should be ramping up manufacture of crystal balls, once we're done with ventilators and face masks.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Slim on March 26, 2020, 15:38:24 pm
Quote from: zoony on March 26, 2020, 15:27:30 pmI think they need to clarify more regarding this one period of exercise that people are allowed. Some people may go out for a long walk, or a bike ride that could take up to 3 hours. Some people who walk their dogs 3 times a day for half an hour at a time, are out there for half the time than the first group of people I mentioned.

I think it's important that there's a simple rule, because a lot of people out there are stupid, unfortunately. But the important thing surely is not the actual time you spend outside, but the risk of spreading the disease.

For example for a couple living in some remote cottage in the middle of nowhere, going out for a walk five times a day wouldn't actually pose a problem if they're never likely to see another human being. But the government isn't going to come out and say that, because it makes it complicated and ambiguous and you don't want people who live in New Cross or Camden wandering around and bumping into their mates in the street several times a day.

Personally I'm sticking to the letter of the law (or rule) and going out once or not at all, but I'm making sure I don't spend even the briefest amount of time with anyone except 'er indoors.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Nïckslïkk2112 on March 26, 2020, 15:56:53 pm
Quote from: zoony on March 26, 2020, 15:27:30 pmI think they need to clarify more regarding this one period of exercise that people are allowed. Some people may go out for a long walk, or a bike ride that could take up to 3 hours. Some people who walk their dogs 3 times a day for half an hour at a time, are out there for half the time than the first group of people I mentioned.
Go out walking the dog three times, three times the chance of being exposed to COVID19.
Riding a bike on the road easier to give a wide berth to people, not near people for as long and easier to get to somewhere more isolated. Apart from the fact that people are driving out to more isolated places and then walking.

I'm going out once a day for up to an hour and a half - so far - for exercise purpose on a bike you have to do it for longer as at times you can just coast along.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Matt2112 on March 26, 2020, 16:14:18 pm
"One form of exercise a day"

That'll explain all the traithletes getting arrested while changing into their cycling gear. :)
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on March 26, 2020, 16:35:10 pm
Quote from: Slim on March 26, 2020, 15:28:01 pmPerhaps Nadhim was not actually able to provide any certainty - you can't blame the government for circumstances that no-one could have predicted or even imagined a few weeks ago. Or perhaps we should be ramping up manufacture of crystal balls, once we're done with ventilators and face masks.
In that case, Dominic Cummings should be telling ministers to say that, rather than keep banging on about "ramping up this and ramping up that"!
It's doing them more harm by continuing to say they are getting PPE to the NHS whilst at the same time nurses are saying they don't have any and Matt Hancock telling the country the NHS has 12,000 ventilators when they have only 8,000.  Nadhim made himself look a tool by continually changing the subject and avoiding answering the question. I'm not a fan of Maitless but she skewered him. It's worth a look

https://youtu.be/x-N_fYEGexE

They should stop trying to 'pull the wool' IMO
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: rufus the dawg on March 26, 2020, 21:12:51 pm
Quote from: Slim on March 26, 2020, 15:23:27 pmRufus either never bothers to read the refutations to the nonsense he types, or he doesn't want to learn. But for those without their eyes closed and their metaphorical fingers jammed in their ears: rest assured, as the Health Secretary stated very clearly, indeed as I transcribed in this very thread:

We have a plan, based on the expertise of world-leading scientists. Herd immunity is not a part of it. That is a scientific concept, not a goal or a strategy. Our goal is to protect life from this virus, our strategy is to protect the most vulnerable and protect the NHS through contain, delay, research and mitigate.

We are working through our clear action plan. Like all our decisions, the plan is based on the bedrock of the science, with maximum transparency. We will do the right thing at the right time, based on the best available science.


It must be very frustrating to keep sniping at a government that keeps winning.

Meanwhile, a thought occurred to me a while ago: there's going to come a point when a substantial number of people have recovered from COVID-19, while a substantial percentage of the population still needs to be protected. Nadine Dorries sat next to Matt Hancock in the Commons on her return to work, on the basis that she is presumed immune; she couldn't infect him or be infected.

But I suspect all of us are still going to be subjected to social distancing in the queue at Tesco and whatever other rules might be in effect, aren't we? Even if we've tested positive for the antibodies. Unless there's going to be some sort of immunity ID card you can apply for, but the logistics for that might be prohibitive. Also it might encourage a few people to try to contract the infection, to get it over with and continue as normal. And actually that might be very beneficial at the moment, in terms of wider society. Interesting one.
Oh dear. You are 100% wrong. 

Chief scientific adviser says we doing Herd Immunity. 5 minutes in very clear. 
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Chris Quartly on March 26, 2020, 22:10:22 pm
Also somewhat troubling https://www.truthorfiction.com/imperial-college-londons-covid-19-report-explained/ (https://www.truthorfiction.com/imperial-college-londons-covid-19-report-explained/)
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Slim on March 27, 2020, 00:34:56 am
Quote from: rufus the dawg on March 26, 2020, 21:12:51 pmOh dear. You are 100% wrong.

Chief scientific adviser says we doing Herd Immunity. 5 minutes in very clear.

I don't mind explaining this repeatedly so much in a way, because it's important - like Brexit. I think you're confusing the unavoidable with a deliberate strategy. The Health Secretary's statement on the matter could not have been clearer - it was not a goal, or a strategy, but ultimately I suspect most of us will get exposed to this and the ensuing general immunity will be important. I would watch the whole video.

The government's approach has been to act - proactively and reactively - on the very best, world-leading scientific advice at very step and to minimise the harm and fatalities. And I'm extremely glad and grateful that we have a government of this calibre in place at a time of such crisis.

But tennis with an opponent who picks the ball up from the back of the court then hits it back as if a point hasn't been scored is tiring and silly. Discussion is good but denial is pointless, especially in a crisis.

I was especially pleased to see the Deputy CMO explain the point about timing and effect during the press conference earlier, but as she said it I was shaking my head, knowing that many wouldn't be listening.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Bisto on March 27, 2020, 09:56:05 am
Quote from: Slim on March 27, 2020, 00:34:56 amI was especially pleased to see the Deputy CMO explain the point about timing and effect during the press conference earlier, but as she said it I was shaking my head, knowing that many wouldn't be listening.
As you obviously see yourself as superior to everybody else, and so many of your interactions and observations, both here on tnms and in society in general, are apparently so unsatisfactory and disappointing to you, perhaps you would feel more comfortable taking your own self isolation to the next level for the next several months?
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: captainkurtz on March 27, 2020, 12:48:24 pm
Stressful time.  Probably a great idea to not be facetious and be a little respectful in your interactions with others on here - people don't need additional upset.

This isn't directed at anyone - just a common sense observation.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Bez on March 27, 2020, 13:36:47 pm
It seems that Boris is infected.

i wonder how he got a test if he is only showing mild symptoms...
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Slim on March 27, 2020, 14:13:17 pm
Quote from: Bisto on March 27, 2020, 09:56:05 amAs you obviously see yourself as superior to everybody else, and so many of your interactions and observations, both here on tnms and in society in general, are apparently so unsatisfactory and disappointing to you, perhaps you would feel more comfortable taking your own self isolation to the next level for the next several months?
Thanks for your suggestion, Andrew - you can be sure though that I'll be doing my sincere best for everyone concerned, in contributing to the public discourse. It's only a small minority of people who are determined to perpetually disappoint, of course - I always remember that. And by the way I wasn't specifically referring to anyone here; I was more thinking of the twerps who write for the Grauniad.

Hope you're coping OK! My own life hasn't changed all that much, to be fair. I'm fortunate in being accustomed to working from home, I don't go out that often except on a bike which I'm still able to do, fortunately. And I even cut my own hair.

I hope your own disappointment and dissatisfaction in reading another contribution to the thread from me haven't been too severe. I will admit that I lack humility and tact sometimes. Perhaps you might have a moment of self-reflection about your own posting style, as well.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Slim on March 27, 2020, 14:17:58 pm
Quote from: Bez on March 27, 2020, 13:36:47 pmIt seems that Boris is infected.

i wonder how he got a test if he is only showing mild symptoms...

Well - he is the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom and Northern Ireland at what is undoubtedly a time of crisis, so with all due humility I do think there's a decent case for being tested if he's showing the symptoms. Matt Hancock has tested positive as well.

That's what you get for leading from the front I guess. Difficult times, just that little bit more difficult now.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Slim on March 27, 2020, 14:22:17 pm
Meanwhile in Spain, 769 people have died as a result of the virus in the last 24 hours. Has Italy peaked?

This is a useful site, you can drill down on the stats for individual countries:

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

I wonder if the figures from China are genuine; encouraging if they are with only 5 new deaths over the last recorded 24 hr period.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on March 27, 2020, 14:24:04 pm
Quote from: Slim on March 27, 2020, 14:17:58 pmWell - he is the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom and Northern Ireland at what is undoubtedly a time of crisis, so with all due humility I do think there's a decent case for being tested if he's showing the symptoms. Matt Hancock has tested positive as well.

That's what you get for leading from the front I guess. Difficult times, just that little bit more difficult now.
I think the country will carry on fine without his 'leadership'.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: rufus the dawg on March 27, 2020, 15:22:19 pm
Quote from: Slim on March 27, 2020, 00:34:56 amThe government's approach has been to act - proactively and reactively - on the very best, world-leading scientific advice at very step and to minimise the harm and fatalities. And I'm extremely glad and grateful that we have a government of this calibre in place at a time of such crisis.

But tennis with an opponent who picks the ball up from the back of the court then hits it back as if a point hasn't been scored is tiring and silly. Discussion is good but denial is pointless, especially in a crisis.
The government have acted reactively and very late. They have changed track because the were proved wrong in there assumptions and criticised categorically throughout the world. Yes you are in denial about the facts. Because all you care about is supporting the Conservative party. Try thinking for yourself for once


Am I in denial? I think we all are until we get this virus. Boris Johnson was and is, that is why he is letting flights in to the country and why he did not close the borders back in January.. This would have made life difficult in this county in the short term but would have saved an awful lot of lives and probably saved £2 trillion. 

So the deliberate strategy of the government is to let CV19 in to the country, not close down schools fast enough and not stop public gathering fast enough and not to stop people going to work fast enough and let  the whole population get really infected and so more people will die. Or are they not doing Herd immunity. I am completely confused with what they are doing until BJ did the shut down.

Quoting a letting from the health minister published in the Telegraph is not proof. Enough said really.

I think you are a confused soul.  Because you think responding is silly you will not respond to this post!.Being of higher intersect and a way better person than me.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Chris Quartly on March 27, 2020, 15:26:36 pm
I thought the link I posted earlier was pretty damning but was ignored, what can you do!
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Chris Quartly on March 27, 2020, 15:30:35 pm
Credit where it's due though, despite the about-face and slow initial response, I've been surprised by the policies in the last week or so.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: rufus the dawg on March 27, 2020, 15:46:21 pm
Quote from: Chris Quartly on March 27, 2020, 15:26:36 pmI thought the link I posted earlier was pretty damning but was ignored, what can you do!
Here's what would happen: 80% of Americans would get the disease. 0.9% of them would die. Between 4 and 8 percent of all Americans over the age of 70 would die. 2.2 million Americans would die from the virus itself.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Slim on March 27, 2020, 15:46:50 pm
Quote from: rufus the dawg on March 27, 2020, 15:22:19 pmThe government have acted reactively and very late. They have changed track because the were proved wrong in there assumptions and criticised categorically throughout the world. Yes you are in denial about the facts. Because all you care about is supporting the Conservative party. Try thinking for yourself for once

They honestly haven't done any of the above, Rufus, and while it's never hard to find people eager to criticise a Conservative government at any cost - even off the backs of the sick and vulnerable in a health crisis apparently, and even when it is demonstrably acting on the very best scientific advice - there is nothing like a consensus, certainly not a world-wide one, to support your view except perhaps among left-leaning malcontents. If you imagine that you have provided anything in the way of proof to support your point, you are mistaken. What the Guardian and the other usual culprits have done is to find a set of contrary opinion, then blare them through a metaphorical loudhailer as if they were definitive and damning. They aren't. The government and its advisors attracted considerable admiration from the outset for its approach from experts in the field and you'll forgive me I'm sure .. or perhaps you won't, if I ascribe a bit more credibility and authority to their views than your own feelings on the matter.

Quote from: undefinedI think you are a confused soul.  Because you think responding is silly you will not respond to this post!.Being of higher intersect and a way better person than me.

I certainly had no intention of insulting your intersect, but here you go - I have responded to your post, despite your claiming in your customary matter-of-fact manner that I wouldn't. Perhaps a lesson there.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: rufus the dawg on March 27, 2020, 15:47:13 pm
Quote from: Chris Quartly on March 27, 2020, 15:26:36 pmI thought the link I posted earlier was pretty damning but was ignored, what can you do!
Americans make up 4.4% of the world's population. So if we simply extrapolate these numbers to the rest of the world -- now we're getting into really fuzzy estimates, so the margin of error is pretty great here -- this gives us 90 million deaths globally from COVID-19. That's 15 Holocausts. That's 1.5 times as many people as died in World War II, over 12 years. This would take 3-6 months.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: rufus the dawg on March 27, 2020, 15:52:00 pm
Quote from: Slim on March 27, 2020, 15:46:50 pmThey honestly haven't done any of the above, Rufus, and while it's never hard to find people eager to criticise a Conservative government at any cost - even off the backs of the sick and vulnerable in a health crisis apparently, and even when it is demonstrably acting on the very best scientific advice - there is nothing like a consensus, certainly not a world-wide one, to support your view except perhaps among left-leaning malcontents. If you imagine that you have provided anything in the way of proof to support your point, you are mistaken. What the Guardian and the other usual culprits have done is to find a set of contrary opinion, then blare them through a metaphorical loudhailer as if they were definitive and damning. They aren't. The government and its advisors attracted considerable admiration from the outset for its approach from experts in the field and you'll forgive me I'm sure .. or perhaps you won't, if I ascribe a bit more credibility and authority to their views than your own feelings on the matter.

I certainly had no intention of insulting your intersect, but here you go - I have responded to your post, despite your claiming in your customary matter-of-fact manner that I wouldn't. Perhaps a lesson there.
Just have right now my front line sister in law doctor on the phone. She says because the government stopped testing people are going around A symptomatic and not knowing and infecting everyone and it can take up to 14 days for symptoms to come out. So passing this virus on and because the government did not close schools, work, large gathering it is to late. And she is very worried.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Slim on March 27, 2020, 15:53:53 pm
That 90 million figure wouldn't actually be so surprising, unfortunately. The Spanish Flu outbreak at the tail end of WW1 killed a similar figure (estimates are 50-100 million).
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Thailand Express on March 27, 2020, 17:01:25 pm
Jacob Rees-Mogg has apparently been struck down with Sudor Anglicus.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: rufus the dawg on March 27, 2020, 20:11:51 pm
Quote from: Thailand Express on March 27, 2020, 17:01:25 pmJacob Rees-Mogg has apparently been struck down with Sudor Anglicus.
I guess he's well practised at stretching out and lying around do nothing. 

Irony that these rich political types telling us what to do and not doing it themselves. I guess he could have got it from nanny though.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on March 27, 2020, 20:15:47 pm
Government badly letting NHS staff with lack of PPE equipment. Absolutely vital that staff are properly protected.  Plenty of advance warning that this was coming. Why is the country not properly prepared?
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Slim on March 27, 2020, 22:34:18 pm
Quote from: döm on March 27, 2020, 20:15:47 pmGovernment badly letting NHS staff with lack of PPE equipment. Absolutely vital that staff are properly protected.  Plenty of advance warning that this was coming. Why is the country not properly prepared?
Plenty of advance warning? Sorry?
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Nïckslïkk2112 on March 27, 2020, 22:34:40 pm
Quote from: döm on March 27, 2020, 20:15:47 pmGovernment badly letting NHS staff with lack of PPE equipment. Absolutely vital that staff are properly protected.  Plenty of advance warning that this was coming. Why is the country not properly prepared?
But they will only have stock levels to reflect anticipated need. Manufacturers will only produce things to anticipated levels.
In these days of KANBAN and JIT the systems will not be able to cope.
Just think a bit, it may not be nice, but preparing for an unknown pandemic will not have been high on anyone's priorities, nobody will have thought beyond a bad seasonal flu level of things.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Slim on March 27, 2020, 22:35:50 pm
Quote from: Slim on March 27, 2020, 14:22:17 pmMeanwhile in Spain, 769 people have died as a result of the virus in the last 24 hours. Has Italy peaked?

Not yet .. another 900+ dead in Italy over the last recorded 24 hr period. Good grief.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Nïckslïkk2112 on March 27, 2020, 22:37:05 pm
Quote from: Thailand Express on March 27, 2020, 17:01:25 pmJacob Rees-Mogg has apparently been struck down with Sudor Anglicus.
Nice try.
But he's the Honourable member for the 18th Century, not the Tudor Period :)
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on March 27, 2020, 23:06:04 pm
NHS having to ask for donations to protect those on the front line. Embarrassing and shocking in equal measure

https://www.medsupplydrive.org.uk/


The EU offered for the UK to be part of its collective drive for respirators. Johnson claims he lost the email
How many lives will be lost due to that negligence?
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: rufus the dawg on March 27, 2020, 23:11:28 pm
Quote from: Nïckslïkk2112 on March 27, 2020, 22:37:05 pmNice try.
But he's the Honourable member for the 18th Century, not the Tudor Period :)
what about.....posh solitudinem ab ipso git?
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Bisto on March 28, 2020, 10:29:04 am
Quote from: Slim on March 27, 2020, 14:13:17 pmThanks for your suggestion, Andrew - you can be sure though that I'll be doing my sincere best for everyone concerned, in contributing to the public discourse. It's only a small minority of people who are determined to perpetually disappoint, of course - I always remember that. And by the way I wasn't specifically referring to anyone here; I was more thinking of the twerps who write for the Grauniad.

Hope you're coping OK! My own life hasn't changed all that much, to be fair. I'm fortunate in being accustomed to working from home, I don't go out that often except on a bike which I'm still able to do, fortunately. And I even cut my own hair.

I hope your own disappointment and dissatisfaction in reading another contribution to the thread from me haven't been too severe. I will admit that I lack humility and tact sometimes. Perhaps you might have a moment of self-reflection about your own posting style, as well.
Whatever, I honestly couldnt give a rat's arse what you think of me....I'm sure you don't care either so just carry on being your usual patronising and condescending self and kid yourself that others can't see through your fake humility.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: rufus the dawg on March 28, 2020, 10:45:18 am
The Lancet is a weekly peer-reviewed general medical journal. It is among the world's oldest, most prestigious, and best known general medical journals

This is from the editor.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)30727-3/fulltext (https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)30727-3/fulltext)

"When this is all over, the NHS England board should resign in their entirety." So wrote one National Health Service (NHS) health worker last weekend. The scale of anger and frustration is unprecedented, and coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) is the cause. The UK Government's Contain-Delay-Mitigate-Research strategy failed. It failed, in part, because ministers didn't follow WHO's advice to "test, test, test" every suspected case. They didn't isolate and quarantine. They didn't contact trace. These basic principles of public health and infectious disease control were ignored, for reasons that remain opaque. The UK now has a new plan--Suppress-Shield-Treat-Palliate. But this plan, agreed far too late in the course of the outbreak, has left the NHS wholly unprepared for the surge of severely and critically ill patients that will soon come. I asked NHS workers to contact me with their experiences. Their messages have been as distressing as they have been horrifying. "It's terrifying for staff at the moment. Still no access to personal protective equipment [PPE] or testing." "Rigid command structures make decision making impossible." "There's been no guidelines, it's chaos." "I don't feel safe. I don't feel protected." "We are literally making it up as we go along." "It feels as if we are actively harming patients." "We need protection and prevention." "Total carnage." "NHS Trusts continue to fail miserably." "Humanitarian crisis." "Forget lockdown--we are going into meltdown." "When I was country director in many conflict zones, we had better preparedness." "The hospitals in London are overwhelmed." "The public and media are not aware that today we no longer live in a city with a properly functioning western health-care system." "How will we protect our patients and staff...I am speechless. It is utterly unconscionable. How can we do this? It is criminal...NHS England was not prepared...We feel completely helpless."


England's Deputy Chief Medical Officer, Jenny Harries, said on March 20, 2020: "The country has a perfectly adequate supply of PPE." She claimed that supply pressures had now been "completely resolved". I am sure Dr Harries believed what she said. But she was wrong and she should apologise to the thousands of health workers who still have no access to WHO-standard PPE. I receive examples daily of doctors having to assess patients with respiratory symptoms but who do so without the necessary PPE to complete their jobs safely. Health workers are challenged if they ask for face masks. Even where there is PPE, there may be no training. WHO standards are not being met. Proper testing of masks is being omitted. Stickers with new expiry dates are being put on PPE that expired in 2016. Doctors have been forced to go to hardware stores to buy their own face masks. Patients with suspected COVID-19 are mixing with non-COVID-19 patients. The situation is so dire that staff are frequently breaking down in tears. As one physician wrote, "The utter failure of sound clinical leadership will lead to an absolute explosion of nosocomial COVID-19 infection." Front-line staff are already contracting and dying from the disease.

The NHS has been wholly unprepared for this pandemic. It's impossible to understand why. Based on their modelling of the Wuhan outbreak of COVID-19, Joseph Wu and his colleagues wrote in The Lancet on Jan 31, 2020: "On the present trajectory, 2019-nCoV could be about to become a global epidemic...for health protection within China and internationally...preparedness plans should be readied for deployment at short notice, including securing supply chains of pharmaceuticals, personal protective equipment, hospital supplies, and the necessary human resources to deal with the consequences of a global outbreak of this magnitude." This warning wasn't made lightly. It should have been read by the Chief Medical Officer, the Chief Executive Officer of the NHS in England, and the Chief Scientific Adviser. They had a duty to immediately put the NHS and British public on high alert. February should have been used to expand coronavirus testing capacity, ensure the distribution of WHO-approved PPE, and establish training programmes and guidelines to protect NHS staff. They didn't take any of those actions. The result has been chaos and panic across the NHS. Patients will die unnecessarily. NHS staff will die unnecessarily. It is, indeed, as one health worker wrote last week, "a national scandal". The gravity of that scandal has yet to be understood.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Matt2112 on March 28, 2020, 12:27:52 pm
Meanwhile, Imperial College have apparently substantially reduced their recently projected mortality figures.    

And Wuhan - where it all started - is gradually re-opening for business.

It'll be reyt.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Nïckslïkk2112 on March 28, 2020, 12:51:11 pm
And to the people who keep banging on about "TEST TEST TEST" where were all these tests going to come from?
The world doesn't stock enough of the things in the first place.

And as for patients dying unnecessarily, Mrs S's auntie has twice been placed on an end of life pathway by the oh so caring NHS. She's still with us. The NHS only care about the unnecessary loss of patients when they get hold of a political axe to grind.

I wonder how many of these COVID19 deaths have been used to expediently get ride of folk? Excuse my cynicism.

Clap for the NHS? Not in this house #NOTINMYNAME
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Nïckslïkk2112 on March 28, 2020, 13:45:20 pm
And for all those moaning about lack of equipment, maybe this pulled from the BBCs Coronorvirus [sic] feed will provide some context:

Quote manufacturing firm in northern Germany is now having to make life and death decisions. Governments from all over the globe are ordering ventilators, says Stefan Dräger, the head of the world's biggest producer of respirators that can keep intensive care patients alive.
His company has doubled production and hopes to double again this year. But demand is 10 times what his firm can produce. And he has to decide who gets the life-saving machines.
The US alone has ordered 100,000 ventilators - which is the total number manufactured every year globally. And the German government has placed an order for 10,000 additional machines for German hospitals.
But components come from all over the world and Mr Dräger warns that export bans could limit supplies and hamper production.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on March 28, 2020, 14:49:36 pm
Quote from: Matt2112 on March 28, 2020, 12:27:52 pmMeanwhile, Imperial College have apparently substantially reduced their recently projected mortality figures.   

And Wuhan - where it all started - is gradually re-opening for business.

It'll be reyt.
Is that a double refutation by Imperial or is that the original one? I'm getting very confused. Not sure I'd believe too much coming out of China
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: zoony on March 28, 2020, 16:07:38 pm
Quote from: Matt2112 on March 28, 2020, 12:27:52 pmMeanwhile, Imperial College have apparently substantially reduced their recently projected mortality figures.   

And Wuhan - where it all started - is gradually re-opening for business.

It'll be reyt.
Nice to read something positive about it mate. I'm trying to distance myself from a lot of the negative, but it's proving difficult.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Chris Quartly on March 28, 2020, 16:15:53 pm
Quote from: Matt2112 on March 28, 2020, 12:27:52 pmMeanwhile, Imperial College have apparently substantially reduced their recently projected mortality figures.   


This is being claimed a lot but the article I posted the other day (by the original author of the paper) claims the opposite, unless something drastic has happened in the last day.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Slim on March 28, 2020, 21:36:01 pm
Well done on finding another opinion to support your anti-government stance, Rufus. I suppose the simple observation that every issue, let alone a crisis has opposing opinions is wasted on you but meanwhile, the government will continue to do its excellent best to defend you, and the people you care about.

Professor Chris Whitty, the government's chief medical officer, is a specialist in the epidemiology of infectious disease.

So let's have a quick look at the author of the piece you transcribed here in huge text. Richard Horton is a Guardian columnist with a general medicine background, and something of a left-wing activist.

In February 1998, he published a paper by Doctor Andrew Wakefield which suggested that vaccines could cause autism. The publication of this piece caused a decline in vaccinations in the US and Europe, and this is believed to have contributed to a large measles outbreak in 2008/9, and a significant number of deaths.

Wakefield was ultimately struck off the UK medical register.

In 2005, Horton published an article supporting Professor Sir Roy Meadow, who had been charged with serious professional misconduct by the GMC for giving misleading evidence in the trial of a solicitor, Sally Clark, who was wrongly found guilty of the murder of her two sons based on Meadow's evidence.
She spent three years in prison for a serious crime that she did not commit.

Horton's contribution to this miscarriage of justice was published while the GMC proceedings were taking place, and attracted serious criticism. The Clark family issued a statement countering with established facts each of the points Horton had made in support of Meadow.

In 2014, Horton wrote a piece in The Lancet on the Israel / Palestine conflict. This attracted vitriolic criticism, not least from Professor Sir Mark Pepys, until 2011 Professor of Medicine at University College London and Head of Medicine at the Hampstead Campus and the Royal Free Hospital.

Pepys wrote that:

"Horton's behaviour in this case is consistent with his longstanding and wholly inappropriate use of The Lancet as a vehicle for his own extreme political views. It has greatly detracted from the former high standing of the journal."

And ultimately even Horton came to say that he "deeply, deeply regrets" publishing the letter.

Quite rich for Horton to be referring to a "scandal", eh? And perhaps not such a prestigious opinion, after all.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Horton_(editor)

.. and follow the links.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: zoony on March 29, 2020, 13:47:30 pm
Have to say that I apologise for taking this coronavirus so flippantly when it first came out, but I doubt there were many of us who thought that it was going to have such a devastating effect as it is, and it's only going to get worse before it gets better. Along with family and friends, I just hope that all the people who post on here, and all of my RUSH family, most of who I've met through this site, get through it. Desperately concerned about my eldest son and his fiancee who are expecting their second child in around 2 weeks, as hospitals aren't the places you want to be going to at the moment. I'm still at work at our place, which is a surprise when you consider it's an aluminium rolling factory, but because some of our products supply the food packaging and pharmaceuticals industries, we are classed as key workers. Simply put though, no one wants to be there, and we are having feck ALL done for us, ie no weekend cleaners at a 24/7 site, and not enough rest room facilities to keep safe social distancing. I guess we've just got to do as much as we can to protect ourselves, as management ain't going to do it for us. At least things have calmed down considerably at the supermarket though, and the only thing we couldn't get this morning was soap, but we do have enough to be going on with. Stay safe everyone.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Bisto on March 29, 2020, 17:10:06 pm
Quote from: zoony on March 29, 2020, 13:47:30 pmHave to say that I apologise for taking this coronavirus so flippantly when it first came out, but I doubt there were many of us who thought that it was going to have such a devastating effect as it is, and it's only going to get worse before it gets better. Along with family and friends, I just hope that all the people who post on here, and all of my RUSH family, most of who I've met through this site, get through it. Desperately concerned about my eldest son and his fiancee who are expecting their second child in around 2 weeks, as hospitals aren't the places you want to be going to at the moment. I'm still at work at our place, which is a surprise when you consider it's an aluminium rolling factory, but because some of our products supply the food packaging and pharmaceuticals industries, we are classed as key workers. Simply put though, no one wants to be there, and we are having feck ALL done for us, ie no weekend cleaners at a 24/7 site, and not enough rest room facilities to keep safe social distancing. I guess we've just got to do as much as we can to protect ourselves, as management ain't going to do it for us. At least things have calmed down considerably at the supermarket though, and the only thing we couldn't get this morning was soap, but we do have enough to be going on with. Stay safe everyone.
You too Rob.

Its a different industry and work environment to yours but like you we are considered 'key workers' and we've got the same issues, were given no protection, we have to beg, borrow and steal hand sanitiser and anti-bacterial spray, we have no dedicated cleaning contractors and have been forbidden to wear masks (a decision which was upheld by the RMT)
 
Our risk of contracting the virus comes more from passengers and the general public than from work colleagues, certainly at the smaller stations. I'd say there's less than 1% of our regular foot flow coming through our little station, in what is a fairly affluent and well to do area.

Were running an amended Sunday service until further notice; our lines serve Victoria and London Bridge but our overlords, in their infinite stupidity, decided to take out the London Bridge services (through our part of the network) bearing in mind that one of our main City of London hospitals, Guys, is a 5 minute walk away from London Bridge station. About 20% of our rescheduled services have been cancelled due to drivers self isolating but to be honest 2, 10 coach trains an hour would be ample and give those travelling all the room required to self isolate.

One by product of all this is that the number of drunks, drug dealers, addicts, homeless people, mentally disabled, professional thieves, abusive dickheads and other assorted unfortunates and ne'er do wells coming through the station has increased, both as a percentage and in total numbers.

I'm amazed generally actually that there hasn't been more social disorder, burglaries and assaults
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on March 29, 2020, 18:02:32 pm
An alternative view from Peter Hitchens

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=share&v=e66-8_JXq6o
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Matt2112 on March 29, 2020, 19:05:34 pm
Quote from: DavidL on March 29, 2020, 18:02:32 pmAn alternative view from Peter Hitchens

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=share&v=e66-8_JXq6o
I still much prefer his brother. :)
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: rufus the dawg on March 29, 2020, 22:33:41 pm
Quote from: DavidL on March 29, 2020, 18:02:32 pmAn alternative view from Peter Hitchens

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=share&v=e66-8_JXq6o
If Johnson acted sooner. Closed the airports which still are not closed. Isolated the over 65s. We maybe could have locked the economy down for 3 weeks not 6 months.

My brother goes in and out of Hong Kong and he could not believe the airports were not closed. And he knows someone who went to Hong Kong then in to china. He got Covid checked in Hong Kong and China and when travelling back did not get checked by the UK. He had managed to contract CV19 and he's been back in UK meeting lots of people. the lock down happened way to late. Remember the Wuan lock down happened on 23 January.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: rufus the dawg on March 29, 2020, 22:39:05 pm
A lot of people on radio 5 live phone in saying the lock down is to much and that we have 17,000 deaths from flu each year in the UK. So what is the problem!!!!

10,000 people have already lost their lives in Italy.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Nïckslïkk2112 on March 29, 2020, 22:55:46 pm
Quote from: rufus the dawg on March 29, 2020, 22:33:41 pmIf Johnson acted sooner. Closed the airports which still are not closed. Isolated the over 65s. We maybe could have locked the economy down for 3 weeks not 6 months.

My brother goes in and out of Hong Kong and he could not believe the airports were not closed. And he knows someone who went to Hong Kong then in to china. He got Covid checked in Hong Kong and China and when travelling back did not get checked by the UK. He had managed to contract CV19 and he's been back in UK meeting lots of people. the lock down happened way to late. Remember the Wuan lock down happened on 23 January.
And remember the WHO were still saying international air travel was safe on the 24th January.

https://www.who.int/news-room/articles-detail/updated-who-advice-for-international-traffic-in-relation-to-the-outbreak-of-the-novel-coronavirus-2019-ncov-24-jan/

 (https://www.who.int/news-room/articles-detail/updated-who-advice-for-international-traffic-in-relation-to-the-outbreak-of-the-novel-coronavirus-2019-ncov-24-jan/)
QuoteWith the information currently available for the novel coronavirus, WHO advises that measures to limit the risk of exportation or importation of the disease should be implemented, without unnecessary restrictions of international traffic.

And the Wuhan lockdown was considered harsh by the WHO when it happened.

I know hindsight is 20-20, but you expect it to have the resolution of an Electron microscope!


Just be grateful this isn't the first time humanity had encountered Smallpox.

Oh yes, and if you have a minute tomorrow, have a look on Flightradar24, I watched the Lufthansa flight from Dublin to Frankfurt pass over yesterday afternoon.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: rufus the dawg on March 29, 2020, 23:00:32 pm
Quote from: Nïckslïkk2112 on March 29, 2020, 22:55:46 pmAnd remember the WHO were still saying international air travel was safe on the 24th January.

https://www.who.int/news-room/articles-detail/updated-who-advice-for-international-traffic-in-relation-to-the-outbreak-of-the-novel-coronavirus-2019-ncov-24-jan/

 (https://www.who.int/news-room/articles-detail/updated-who-advice-for-international-traffic-in-relation-to-the-outbreak-of-the-novel-coronavirus-2019-ncov-24-jan/)
And the Wuhan lockdown was considered harsh by the WHO when it happened.

I know hindsight is 20-20, but you expect it to have the resolution of an Electron microscope!


Just be grateful this isn't the first time humanity had encountered Smallpox.
Yes I understand that. Everyone was telling the government to stop mass gatherings and close schools but they did not. Sports and concert groups were taking it in to their own hands.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Bez on March 29, 2020, 23:05:56 pm
£6million to send a letter to every household across the nation....

Could have bought testing kits or PPE for frontline workers with it...
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: zoony on March 30, 2020, 00:02:53 am
Didn't know whether my son, Greg, who is a type 1 diabetic, or myself with my medication for blood pressure and having had 2 stents inserted last year, would be placed in the high risk group. If you are, it says on the NHS site that you would have been notified by them by the 29th of March, which is now nearly over. Those in that group are advised to isolate at home for 12 weeks. As things stand at the moment, we would get full sick pay from work. The thought of 12 weeks stuck inside is an awful one though really, and something that I wouldn't want if I'm honest.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: rufus the dawg on March 30, 2020, 01:23:55 am
Quote from Boris Johnson on 3rd march.

'I was at a hospital the other night, where I think there were actually a few coronavirus patients, and I shook hands with everybody, you'll be pleased to know, and I continue to shake hands.'

"We already have a fantastic NHS, fantastic testing systems and fantastic surveillance of the spread of the disease ... I want to stress that for the vast majority of the people of this country, we should be going about our business as usual"

He truly is an idiot the man without a plan.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Matt2112 on March 30, 2020, 09:23:02 am
China reopening for business.

Switzerland "has turned a corner"

New York "has turned a corner"

Italy and Spain probably at their peak, which obviously can't last; Spain's numbers actually slowing.

U.K. hospital admission rate decreasing.

Source: some experts on Radio 4 this morning. Including that chap from Imperial College.  Who was actually a Superfluous "So..." Merchant, hence I had to stop listening.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Matt2112 on March 30, 2020, 14:54:54 pm
Prince Charles has fully recovered from Covid-19 after self-isolating for 7 days, apparently.

Remarkable how this disease has affected an old man with such an underlying wealth condition.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: The Letter R on March 30, 2020, 15:28:00 pm
Meanwhile the president of Belarus says it doesn't exist as he cannot see it flying around so no need to do anything. Their football league is now getting worldwide attention as it's the only one still playing......funny old world at times!!!

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-belarus-president-refuses-to-cancel-anything-and-says-vodka-and-saunas-will-ward-off-coronavirus-11965396 (https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-belarus-president-refuses-to-cancel-anything-and-says-vodka-and-saunas-will-ward-off-coronavirus-11965396)
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Chris Quartly on March 30, 2020, 15:50:22 pm
Quote from: Matt2112 on March 30, 2020, 09:23:02 amChina reopening for business.

Switzerland "has turned a corner"

New York "has turned a corner"

Italy and Spain probably at their peak, which obviously can't last; Spain's numbers actually slowing.

U.K. hospital admission rate decreasing.

Source: some experts on Radio 4 this morning. Including that chap from Imperial College.  Who was actually a Superfluous "So..." Merchant, hence I had to stop listening.

We're expecting peak deaths in about 2 weeks here in New York and that's if things go well!
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on March 30, 2020, 16:58:02 pm
I was over there in Feb - what an amazing city! 

How are things now Chris?
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Chris Quartly on March 30, 2020, 17:22:48 pm
I would have gladly met you for a drink! 

This is my third week of working from home and we are quite lucky with our setup as we have a second bedroom that I use as an office, and we have a washer/dryer in the apartment which is rare here, so we don't leave the apartment unless we really need to. I try and get in a couple of short runs for exercise, the parks are still pretty busy so it seems best to avoid those... very thankful that we are salaried employees that can do our jobs still, there are a lot of people and businesses that are struggling and probably won't re-open; relief efforts don't seem like they will go far enough here, certainly by comparison to other countries.

The mayor and the governor have been pretty good with their communications but we are really going to struggle as a city and state if we don't get more federal support. I think every reasonable person here is braced for things getting worse before they get better. The mayor has said that hospitals in the city will run out of critical supplies by Sunday as things stand, and it doesn't help that the healthcare system here is crazy, most hospitals are independent silos that run off different networks and cover different insurances, so they don't really talk or work with each other, something that might have to change during this crisis. 

Deaths in the state passed 1,000 today, with 776 of those being in the city. If Trump continues to ignore pleas to provide more equipment, thousands are going to die needlessly.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: rufus the dawg on March 30, 2020, 17:41:10 pm
Yes I see trump is moaning again and blaming everyone else.

I think Boris Johnson was slow to act in my country just like Trump but at least BJ is trying to make it work out. 

I think the sad think for you Chris and the world is that Trump will get in again. Biden does not seem to come across well from what I have seen of him from the UK. On a more flippant subject- What's happening to Trumps Face? His skin is awful. I know he's always been orange but the texture of his skin is like old leather?!
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Nick on March 30, 2020, 18:17:21 pm
Quote from: Matt2112 on March 30, 2020, 09:23:02 am.  Who was actually a Superfluous "So..." Merchant, hence I had to stop listening.
I've noticed this more than anything recently, I agree it drives me up the wall.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: zoony on March 31, 2020, 00:23:50 am
Quote from: Matt2112 on March 30, 2020, 09:23:02 amChina reopening for business.

Switzerland "has turned a corner"

New York "has turned a corner"

Italy and Spain probably at their peak, which obviously can't last; Spain's numbers actually slowing.

U.K. hospital admission rate decreasing.

Source: some experts on Radio 4 this morning. Including that chap from Imperial College.  Who was actually a Superfluous "So..." Merchant, hence I had to stop listening.
All encouraging signs mate, but we can't get complacent, and it's imperative that we carry on with the practices that thankfully are getting through to the majority now.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on March 31, 2020, 10:44:18 am
Interesting views



https://off-guardian.org/2020/03/24/12-experts-questioning-the-coronavirus-panic/?__cf_chl_jschl_tk__=05d51803f3fb65a08a2818c2c82e1b4c40d2db9d-1585643600-0-AXeb5BFdWmHXfs4_9n3s2abwGTvLeD8NElShkVsXZyZmLlJsyayzJdgp8TjVc0BKNio6aTFr8FNWA_NPfaENZt4lhNieKqfgJ76kV6d1nvcLS6Q30X-YpVyRyrQn4J_f3JEN_V3brrszImo0oxNURL3SZhH57zYFASPeZOOOwRKkTPt4IVgq4mwmAAUZJhqTJgMi3P2TYPm0CbM-4gNRvTpMH8wuE-fjalgMrOkpxzyy8oQtS9vwJ8wY3OLp7qokmUsKGoF9bP-6tO6GBxNB79byhy96o-Ofsys-JCZih-OGfUuQgCO5H3p0GjdWhXRAEccK5T3se3Aey1Dd3whg5M5X_Wglrl_EK1Pmggu_qMZY
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: captainkurtz on March 31, 2020, 12:10:27 pm
How are you doing DavidL?
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Bez on March 31, 2020, 12:11:42 pm
Quote from: Nick on March 30, 2020, 18:17:21 pmI've noticed this more than anything recently, I agree it drives me up the wall.
So, I'm a little guilty of this, so, have been making a special effort to modify my behaviour...

The one that really annoys me at the moment is use of the word "really" out of context. It has become a way of trying to re-enforce a point of view rather than an exclaimation of surprise....
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: rufus the dawg on March 31, 2020, 12:32:42 pm
Quote from: Bez on March 31, 2020, 12:11:42 pmSo, I'm a little guilty of this, so, have been making a special effort to modify my behaviour...

The one that really annoys me at the moment is use of the word "really" out of context. It has become a way of trying to re-enforce a point of view rather than an exclaimation of surprise....
People often start a sentence with "so"

Ie "so what happens" "So if......" "So I nee....." 

I find myself doing it SO much!
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on March 31, 2020, 12:38:57 pm
Quote from: captainkurtz on March 31, 2020, 12:10:27 pmHow are you doing DavidL?
Still not quite right. About 80%, I'd say. I've been congested for around 5 days and cannot taste anything. Like a head cold now. Still slightly feverish but not as weak as I was. Wish I could get tested.
Back to work tomorrow. First time out for two weeks.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Matt2112 on March 31, 2020, 13:19:06 pm
Quote from: rufus the dawg on March 31, 2020, 12:32:42 pmPeople often start a sentence with "so"

Ie "so what happens" "So if......" "So I nee....."

I find myself doing it SO much!
No complaint about that.

It's the Superfluous "So" to open a sentence - often every sentence - that does my box in.

"So...the data we've collected shows..."

"So...when I reached out to my colleagues.."

Aaaaaaarrghh!! Just stop!!!  >:(
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: The Letter R on March 31, 2020, 13:58:40 pm
Quote from: DavidL on March 31, 2020, 12:38:57 pmStill not quite right. About 80%, I'd say. I've been congested for around 5 days and cannot taste anything. Like a head cold now. Still slightly feverish but not as weak as I was. Wish I could get tested.
Back to work tomorrow. First time out for two weeks.
Certainly sounds like what I had.....it goes away then comes back.....and the cough is annoying......all cleared now though so hang in there.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on March 31, 2020, 14:34:39 pm
Quote from: The Letter R on March 31, 2020, 13:58:40 pmCertainly sounds like what I had.....it goes away then comes back.....and the cough is annoying......all cleared now though so hang in there.
I never really had the cough (?)
Thanks
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: rufus the dawg on March 31, 2020, 18:10:07 pm
Lets us remember how the CONservatives reacted to them voting to turn down nurses pay rise in 2017


Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: zoony on March 31, 2020, 20:46:48 pm
Feel more comfortable after phoning 111 for advice in the early hours of this morning, (I was on nights), regarding my medications and having 2 diabetic children living at home, and if this affected me with still being at work. They said my medications weren't a problem, as I'm on nothing that affects my immune system. As for the kids, they told me to carry on safe social distancing practices, as diabetics are in the vulnerable group. My son, Greg, who also works at our place, is currently on 12 weeks leave with full pay, as are a fair few others at our place at the moment.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on April 01, 2020, 00:49:32 am
I think this begins to show how serious this is getting...

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/surgery-tells-sickest-patients-will-18012444.amp
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: zoony on April 01, 2020, 09:49:54 am
Quote from: döm on April 01, 2020, 00:49:32 amI think this begins to show how serious this is getting...

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/surgery-tells-sickest-patients-will-18012444.amp
Terrible mate, but we've all got to try and focus on some of the positive things that are coming out. Every death we here about is sad, but there are more people who are getting over it. We've just got to hope that lessons are learned from this though, and that we're more prepared if it ever happens again in the future.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: The Letter R on April 01, 2020, 16:05:17 pm
Quote from: döm on April 01, 2020, 00:49:32 amI think this begins to show how serious this is getting...

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/surgery-tells-sickest-patients-will-18012444.amp
Unfortunately Doctors are going to have to be making some awkward decisions about who they can save and who they cannot or the less likely % wise - it may seem harsh to our own way of thinking but the truth is at peak the hospitals won't be able to cope and they will have to sift through the most likely to survive vs the least likely - however inhumane that may seem it is sadly the only way.

There is a very interesting article written by a retired neurosurgeon who operated on my Mum a few years ago.

His article is very pragmatic and honest and as a Dr who has been on frontline of life and death decisions for many years it gives an idea of what every Dr dealing with COVID 19 patients is going to have to make.

You can read it here :-

https://www.ft.com/content/00312c48-6e87-11ea-9bca-bf503995cd6f (https://www.ft.com/content/00312c48-6e87-11ea-9bca-bf503995cd6f)
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Slim on April 01, 2020, 17:09:43 pm
Grim times at the moment, and today's UK death toll figure is 563. Starting to look like Italy and Spain may be levelling out a bit on deaths, though.  And of course the news from China is promising, if you can trust their figures. There's a light at the end of the tunnel.

If you look at the graph for cumulative recorded deaths in Spain, for example - it's roughly a straight line in the past week; there's even a tiny dip in the angle over the last recorded day:

(http://truth.justdied.com/images/spaincv19_200401.png)

.. with a similar picture for Italy.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Chris Quartly on April 01, 2020, 17:19:11 pm
A slightly sobering read in the New Statesman - https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2020/04/real-reason-uk-government-pursued-herd-immunity-and-why-it-was-abandoned (https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2020/04/real-reason-uk-government-pursued-herd-immunity-and-why-it-was-abandoned)
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on April 01, 2020, 17:23:46 pm
You know I wouldn't criticize the current Government without good reason but their slow response to this crisis has been desperately poor  - 30 ???

https://twitter.com/i/status/1245361818937196545 (https://twitter.com/i/status/1245361818937196545)
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Slim on April 01, 2020, 17:34:18 pm
Really? This again?

Just a minor point that bears repeating apparently. I'll have one more go.



We have a plan, based on the expertise of world-leading scientists. Herd immunity is not a part of it. That is a scientific concept, not a goal or a strategy. Our goal is to protect life from this virus, our strategy is to protect the most vulnerable and protect the NHS through contain, delay, research and mitigate.

- Matt Hancock, Secretary of State for Health and Social Care, 15 March 2020.



I send good wishes to everyone who considers that he or she has a more comprehensive understanding of government health policy than the Health Secretary. Nonetheless, you don't.

I guess we're witnessing the birth of a very long-standing urban legend.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/health-secretary-matt-hancocks-sunday-telegraph-op-ed
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Slim on April 01, 2020, 17:35:27 pm
Quote from: döm on April 01, 2020, 17:23:46 pmYou know I wouldn't criticize the current Government without good reason but their slow response to this crisis has been desperately poor  - 30 ???

https://twitter.com/i/status/1245361818937196545 (https://twitter.com/i/status/1245361818937196545)

"Racheal Swindon" and the BBC. I don't think I really need to type any more than that.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on April 01, 2020, 17:40:25 pm
Quote from: Slim on April 01, 2020, 17:35:27 pm"Racheal Swindon" and the BBC. I don't think I really need to type any more than that.
she is a little objectionable but 30 respirators!  That's a pathetic response to this crisis.  Does nothing to help the medical staff having to make those impossibly difficult decisions.
Catastrophic management of the country just when we need real leadership.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Slim on April 01, 2020, 17:40:29 pm
Turning away from the tedious, endless drip of anti-Conservative commentators taking an opportunity off the backs of the sick and vulnerable to have a go at the government, for a moment: this is something I saw posted on social media a few minutes ago by our very own Dave Egan, formerly of this parish:

https://covid.joinzoe.com/

"Thank you for joining millions of people to support scientists at King's College London in helping our health services."

Basically an app on which you self-report symptoms, even if you're well, to help research into identification of high risk areas, who is most at risk, and how fast the virus is spreading.

Might be a bit more useful than endlessly repeating the same well-refuted nonsense and undermining the government's best efforts to help people in this crisis?
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on April 01, 2020, 17:42:46 pm
Quote from: Slim on April 01, 2020, 17:40:29 pmTurning away from the tedious, endless drip of anti-Conservative commentators taking an opportunity off the backs of the sick and vulnerable to have a go at the government, for a moment: this is something I saw posted on social media a few minutes ago by our very own Dave Egan, formerly of this parish:

https://covid.joinzoe.com/

"Thank you for joining millions of people to support scientists at King's College London in helping our health services."

Basically an app on which you self-report symptoms, even if you're well, to help research into identification of high risk areas, who is most at risk, and how fast the virus is spreading.

Might be a bit more useful than endlessly repeating the same well-refuted nonsense and undermining the government's best efforts to help people in this crisis?
looks interesting - but as to the Government -  "best efforts"?  I'd hate to see how things were if they were functioning averagely
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: rufus the dawg on April 01, 2020, 18:28:29 pm
Quote from: Slim on April 01, 2020, 17:40:29 pmMight be a bit more useful than endlessly repeating the same well-refuted nonsense and undermining the government's best efforts to help people in this crisis?
Basically your self important opinion does not agree with the facts. 

There doing their best to undermine themselves.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on April 01, 2020, 18:52:06 pm
Quote from: Slim on April 01, 2020, 17:34:18 pmReally? This again?

Just a minor point that bears repeating apparently. I'll have one more go.



We have a plan, based on the expertise of world-leading scientists. Herd immunity is not a part of it. That is a scientific concept, not a goal or a strategy. Our goal is to protect life from this virus, our strategy is to protect the most vulnerable and protect the NHS through contain, delay, research and mitigate.

- Matt Hancock, Secretary of State for Health and Social Care, 15 March 2020.



I send good wishes to everyone who considers that he or she has a more comprehensive understanding of government health policy than the Health Secretary. Nonetheless, you don't.

I guess we're witnessing the birth of a very long-standing urban legend.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/health-secretary-matt-hancocks-sunday-telegraph-op-ed
Hard to believe what they say these days. The cabinet is a really unreliable source of information ATM. 

Look at Gove and his assertion that there was a shortage of reagents needed to produce the necessary test kits. He was swiftly put to right by the industry body which said there is plenty of supply
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on April 02, 2020, 01:50:54 am
Worrying times for the Conservative party when 2 of its staunchest allies turn against its policies on Coronavirus - both on lack of testing and lack of PPE equipment. The Mail and the Telegraph headlines must make sober reading for the cabinet.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Bisto on April 02, 2020, 08:10:41 am
Quote from: döm on April 02, 2020, 01:50:54 amWorrying times for the Conservative party when 2 of its staunchest allies turn against its policies on Coronavirus - both on lack of testing and lack of PPE equipment. The Mail and the Telegraph headlines must make sober reading for the cabinet.
I couldn't find any positive or pro Government/Tory news on the Daily Mail relating to the Corona Virus epidemic, it was all either directly critical or simply bad news...the relevant articles that are visible on the Torygraph are also negative, the rest are behind a paywall.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on April 02, 2020, 08:12:46 am
Quote from: döm on April 02, 2020, 01:50:54 amWorrying times for the Conservative party when 2 of its staunchest allies turn against its policies on Coronavirus - both on lack of testing and lack of PPE equipment. The Mail and the Telegraph headlines must make sober reading for the cabinet.
Yes, they are reaping what they've sown. Poor communication. Unfulfilled promises. Bullshit merchants, the lot of them. Can't say it wasn't expected, our model of government is just not capable of effectively handling something like this. Apparently the NHS tested a pandemic scenario a few years ago!  Deficiencies identified but nothing changed. Never before in the field of public service have so many been paid so much for doing so little.
Still, as bad as we are at tackling this, we surely aren't the worse....but that's little comfort.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: The Letter R on April 02, 2020, 16:14:05 pm
On the positive side with less cars, planes and factories pumping out crap into the air, the pollution levels are falling, imagine if the government said COVID 19 will kill 30,000 people each year in the UK and we better deal with it, people would be pretty pissed off - all the while general air pollution is doing this :-


Air pollution is the biggest environmental threat to health in the UK, with between 28,000 and 36,000 deaths a year attributed to long-term exposure. There is strong evidence that air pollution causes the development of coronary heart disease, stroke, respiratory disease and lung cancer, and exacerbates asthma.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on April 02, 2020, 16:21:11 pm
Quote from: The Letter R on April 02, 2020, 16:14:05 pmOn the positive side with less cars, planes and factories pumping out crap into the air, the pollution levels are falling, imagine if the government said COVID 19 will kill 30,000 people each year in the UK and we better deal with it, people would be pretty pissed off - all the while general air pollution is doing this :-


Air pollution is the biggest environmental threat to health in the UK, with between 28,000 and 36,000 deaths a year attributed to long-term exposure. There is strong evidence that air pollution causes the development of coronary heart disease, stroke, respiratory disease and lung cancer, and exacerbates asthma.
Unfortunately pollution is a by-product of a functioning economy that needs to create wealth to spend on all the things we take for granted.....like free health care.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: The Letter R on April 02, 2020, 16:40:55 pm
Quote from: DavidL on April 02, 2020, 16:21:11 pmUnfortunately pollution is a by-product of a functioning economy that needs to create wealth to spend on all the things we take for granted.....like free health care.
It's odd though when the news reports each day of the increasing numbers of COVID Deaths people start to focus on these numbers and we all start to do things differently to try and hopefully lower these figures - if the news reported on pollution deaths each day in the same way then maybe we would look at cleaner ways to do things - pollution at it's current level ( pre world shut down that is ) doesn't need to be as bad as it is if we all demanded and worked for more efficient ways of doing things rather than chasing prices down to the lowest level at no thought for the world around us.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: rufus the dawg on April 02, 2020, 17:56:11 pm
Apparently Boris Johnson still has Covid 19 symptoms. Am I starting to smell a little pork pie here. We all know he does not like to come up against criticism or any type of questioning. Is he hiding in No.10? uumm
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on April 03, 2020, 00:38:16 am
"Ramping up", "ramping up", ramping up", "ramping up"

Aaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrgggghhhhhhhh!!!
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Bisto on April 03, 2020, 00:52:07 am
Quote from: rufus the dawg on April 02, 2020, 17:56:11 pmApparently Boris Johnson still has Covid 19 symptoms. Am I starting to smell a little pork pie here. We all know he does not like to come up against criticism or any type of questioning. Is he hiding in No.10? uumm
Apparently, a man in China who tested positive and was being treated in hospital had the symptoms for 49 days and survived
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: zoony on April 03, 2020, 09:49:28 am
My daughter in law, Maisie is showing signs that she may be ready to give birth at any time now. Her due date is the 13th, but we're all praying that she goes in and out with everything going smoothly and safely as soon as possible. It's a traumatic enough time as it is, but magnified many times over in these circumstances.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on April 03, 2020, 10:41:35 am
I watched the bit of Question Time last night where Matt Hancock bumbled his way through a response to Yvette Cooper on his testing 'pledge'. He clearly stated that the 100,000 a day figure (by month end) would be made up of both the antigen tests AND the antibody tests.
In less than 12 hours he has contradicted that statement and admitted that the antibody test would not be ready in time to contribute to that figure. Of all the ministers involved in this shambles, Matthew must take the prize for the most incompetent. Yesterday he presented his ridiculous 'Five pillar' approach at the press conference which was clearly a case of style over substance and was solely concocted to engender confidence in his abilities...it didn't. He also seems to think that playing with semantics is going to help him out of the deep hole he's dug for himself - by using the term 'goal' rather than 'target'. We are witnessing one of the greatest examples of 'spinning' that has ever been displayed by any government and Hancock is the biggest culprit.
I don't believe he'll remain in post much longer...he gives a new meaning to the term useless. >:(
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: rufus the dawg on April 04, 2020, 11:43:39 am
(https://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/dam/PortalPictures/april-2020/0404-MATT-PORTAL-WEB-P1.png?imwidth=320)

From the Telegraph!
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: zoony on April 04, 2020, 12:55:51 pm
We're having to go down in our department to have some asbestos roof tiles removed later this month. Management are trying to encourage us to put holidays in, although there will be the usual list of shitty jobs to do if you want to come. Some people are stubborn, and don't want to use any of their holidays up, but at the moment, no one is going to be going anywhere anytime soon! I've just bit the bullet and booked 2 sets of 4 shifts off, which will give me 20 days away from the place from April 16th til the 6th of May. Happy with that.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: rufus the dawg on April 04, 2020, 18:39:35 pm
Hopefully there will lots of good weather and you can get some walking in.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Slim on April 05, 2020, 00:52:42 am
Here's a bit of quick & dirty statistical analysis.

The first graph represents the UK daily death figures since March 14th; the second is my attempt to smooth those out to see if the trend is more obvious, using moving averages.

The first data point represented in the second graph is the average of the figures for March 14th-17th, the second is the average for 15th-18th, and so on.

(http://truth.justdied.com/images/death_4apr.png)

Clearly the trend is still upward, but it does look like it may be beginning to decelerate a little. The social distancing and 'lockdown' measures introduced by the government won't make themselves felt conspicuously in the death rate figures for a while due to the time it takes to die after becoming infected so a week or two from now will give a much more informed picture, hopefully.

The most recent figure is 708, shocking and awful. Of course there may be others who have died as a consequence of infection and not been counted; on the other hand some of those 708 may have died "with" the virus rather than "due to" the virus. But even if the figures are not completely reliable the trend is obvious.

1053 new deaths in France, a country with a population similar in size to ours, so I sincerely hope they've hit the peak there. Italy does seem to be over the peak at first glance.

Finally - I heard on 5 Live the other day (and I believe it was mentioned in Matt's first press conference following his recovery) that there's academic evidence that the rate of transmission is now less than 1 - so that every 10 people infected with the virus in the UK are going on to infect less than 10 other people, between them. That's very encouraging, if true.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Slim on April 05, 2020, 16:08:40 pm
The Indian authorities are certainly taking unusual measures against their curfew breakers. I don't see this happening here, but .. who knows?



Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on April 05, 2020, 22:34:01 pm
Bojo admitted to hospital. Worrying times for him especially that his pregnant wife has symptoms too. hope they both recover quickly.

Interesting that both he and the Taoiseach will get a better idea of what things are like on the frontline. 
Bojo as a patient and Leo as a doctor...

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/coronavirus-varadkar-returns-to-practising-medicine-to-help-during-crisis-1.4221463?mode=amp
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on April 05, 2020, 23:30:01 pm
Quote from: döm on April 05, 2020, 22:34:01 pmBojo admitted to hospital. 
I wonder if 'his' hospital has enough PPE? 😁
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: rufus the dawg on April 06, 2020, 01:14:52 am
Quote from: DavidL on April 05, 2020, 23:30:01 pmI wonder if 'his' hospital has enough PPE? 😁
Slim bought for him and personally delivered it. with a get well card.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Slim on April 06, 2020, 01:29:12 am
Yes. I personally fed him grapes, wearing latex gloves and a hazmat suit.

And here's a bit more analysis. Health warning: I am not a statistician. However the data is sourced from https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries and as far as I know is correct. My analysis of it as represented in my final paragraph below is strictly that of an amateur.

The first graph shows daily percentage increase in reported deaths. For example on March 14, deaths were up 40% (14 as opposed to the previous day's figure, 10). The second graph shows the same data but smoothed out using a 4-day moving average, to show a trend.

Again on the face of it, it looks encouraging - with the increase in the death rate on the way down, over recent days.

(http://truth.justdied.com/images/dr6apr.png)
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: zoony on April 06, 2020, 13:35:53 pm
Quote from: Slim on April 05, 2020, 16:08:40 pmThe Indian authorities are certainly taking unusual measures against their curfew breakers. I don't see this happening here, but .. who knows?



All of those people who were disobeying the guidelines in the parks and on the beaches yesterday should perhaps be sprayed with smart water to catch them out if they do it again? I do admit it must be a lot harder for people living in the inner cities though, as I'm lucky that it's fairly quiet where we live. Still, got no sympathy for people out sunbathing and having barbecues on the beach though.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: The Letter R on April 06, 2020, 18:08:18 pm
Quote from: Slim on April 06, 2020, 01:29:12 amYes. I personally fed him grapes, wearing latex gloves and a hazmat suit.

And here's a bit more analysis. Health warning: I am not a statistician. However the data is sourced from https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries and as far as I know is correct. My analysis of it as represented in my final paragraph below is strictly that of an amateur.

The first graph shows daily percentage increase in reported deaths. For example on March 14, deaths were up 40% (14 as opposed to the previous day's figure, 10). The second graph shows the same data but smoothed out using a 4-day moving average, to show a trend.

Again on the face of it, it looks encouraging - with the increase in the death rate on the way down, over recent days.

(http://truth.justdied.com/images/dr6apr.png)
The UK's "recovered" numbers look ridiculous on this though...only 135 according to that!!??? that's complete bollocks - not blaming you Slim but there's some serious data gaps in what is being reported.....probably linked to lack of testing.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: rufus the dawg on April 06, 2020, 20:54:39 pm
Quote from: Slim on April 06, 2020, 01:29:12 amYes. I personally fed him grapes, wearing latex gloves and a hazmat suit.
peeled I hope.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: rufus the dawg on April 06, 2020, 20:59:13 pm
Quote from: The Letter R on April 06, 2020, 18:08:18 pmThe UK's "recovered" numbers look ridiculous on this though...only 135 according to that!!??? that's complete bollocks - not blaming you Slim but there's some serious data gaps in what is being reported.....probably linked to lack of testing.
This government does not believe in experts and WHO are the experts and they recommended to test test test. And why should I believe the governments experts because they told me not to believe them. Especially when lead expert Boris Johnson did not follow what the experts recommended in social distancing and shaking hands.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Chris Quartly on April 06, 2020, 21:19:10 pm
Boris Johnson moved to intensive care. Yikes.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: captainkurtz on April 06, 2020, 21:25:17 pm
Christ.  Hope he recovers.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Matt2112 on April 06, 2020, 23:04:50 pm
Yes, hoping he's in better health very soon.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: The Letter R on April 07, 2020, 09:11:39 am
Quote from: rufus the dawg on April 06, 2020, 20:59:13 pmThis government does not believe in experts and WHO are the experts and they recommended to test test test. And why should I believe the governments experts because they told me not to believe them. Especially when lead expert Boris Johnson did not follow what the experts recommended in social distancing and shaking hands.
There simply are not enough testing kits available - the government has kind of admitted that but should be more open about it.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Bez on April 07, 2020, 09:46:02 am
Test kits and PPE seem to be dropping off the news radar now...I wonder what the journos will think of next...
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Nïckslïkk2112 on April 07, 2020, 11:27:00 am
Quote from: Bez on April 07, 2020, 09:46:02 amTest kits and PPE seem to be dropping off the news radar now...I wonder what the journos will think of next...
Been done to death now and things are on the increase. You can't afford to credit the public with a long attention span.

As Keith says, we have a lack of testing kits and a lack of laboratories to process them. Even the Germans with their capacity for 500,000 tests a week would need over 3 years to test the whole country.

And now UCL are saying School closures don't make much difference.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52180783
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: rufus the dawg on April 07, 2020, 14:17:51 pm
There are a lot of unused testing labs

https://www.ft.com/content/02a2bece-72b5-11ea-90ce-5fb6c07a27f2 (https://www.ft.com/content/02a2bece-72b5-11ea-90ce-5fb6c07a27f2)

and i read/watched some where that vet labs can do it and they have a test that works and can be run out straightaway

here it is https://www.channel4.com/news/virologists-develop-user-friendly-rapid-test-that-can-detect-covid-19-in-20-minutes (https://www.channel4.com/news/virologists-develop-user-friendly-rapid-test-that-can-detect-covid-19-in-20-minutes)
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on April 07, 2020, 14:53:14 pm
Quote from: rufus the dawg on April 07, 2020, 14:17:51 pmThere are a lot of unused testing labs

https://www.ft.com/content/02a2bece-72b5-11ea-90ce-5fb6c07a27f2 (https://www.ft.com/content/02a2bece-72b5-11ea-90ce-5fb6c07a27f2)

and i read/watched some where that vet labs can do it and they have a test that works and can be run out straightaway

here it is https://www.channel4.com/news/virologists-develop-user-friendly-rapid-test-that-can-detect-covid-19-in-20-minutes (https://www.channel4.com/news/virologists-develop-user-friendly-rapid-test-that-can-detect-covid-19-in-20-minutes)
Good work, rufus. You should be standing in for the PM
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: rufus the dawg on April 07, 2020, 19:07:14 pm
Quote from: DavidL on April 07, 2020, 14:53:14 pmGood work, rufus. You should be standing in for the PM
First thing I would do is "throw in to prision all lying politicians"

Chris Witty said today "we need to learn from Germany......."
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: zoony on April 07, 2020, 23:03:56 pm
As from tomorrow, surgical masks are to be mandatory PPE at our place for all offices, pulpits and restrooms. Each one has to be disposed of at the end of every day or shift.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: rufus the dawg on April 08, 2020, 00:16:38 am
massive drama on the news about who's running the government. What a load of tosh.

Sir Humphrey: Minister, the traditional allocation of executive responsibilities has always been so determined as to liberate the ministerial incumbent from the administrative minutiae by devolving the managerial functions to those whose experience and qualifications have better formed them for the performance of such humble offices, thereby releasing their political overlords for the more onerous duties and profound deliberations which are the inevitable concomitant of their exalted position.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: rufus the dawg on April 08, 2020, 10:41:49 am
Quote from: Chris Quartly on April 01, 2020, 17:19:11 pmA slightly sobering read in the New Statesman - https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2020/04/real-reason-uk-government-pursued-herd-immunity-and-why-it-was-abandoned (https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2020/04/real-reason-uk-government-pursued-herd-immunity-and-why-it-was-abandoned)
This is damming. Dither and delay from the government. Thank you for link. Sadly the Governments delay is costing 1000s of lives.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on April 08, 2020, 10:53:50 am
A right old ding-dong going on in Euroland as failure to agree a coronavirus rescue package for stricken countries including Spain and Italy. Who'd have guessed that at a time of crisis, the EU would be found to be unfit for purpose. At least, unshackled from the moribund EU, our government was able to take decisive action on saving businesses and livelihoods.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Nïckslïkk2112 on April 08, 2020, 11:40:34 am
Quote from: rufus the dawg on April 08, 2020, 10:41:49 amThis is damming. Dither and delay from the government. Thank you for link. Sadly the Governments delay is costing 1000s of lives.
Damming? Won't hold back any water.

Once again, this is people twisting things to suit their own viewpoint. Have you had a look at what's happening in the Netherlands? They went more full on for Herd immunity on a bigger scale than the 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/joshuacohen/2020/03/27/caught-between-herd-immunity-and-national-lockdown-holland-hit-hard-by-covid-19/#478cebd33557

Decisions are being made by people. People do not always make the best decisions. Decisions have to be made on available information. Not all information is available at all times. Not all information is always relevant. People make choices. People don't always make the "right" choice. Not making the "right" choice is not a sign of malice.

Meanwhile, in Sweden: Lockdown, what lockdown?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-52076293

OK that's a few days old now, but in Europe countries were making choices that were and still are at odds with what is now happening here.

Meanwhile in Belarus: Coronavirus, what coronavirus? Vodka, Saunas and driving tractors is the way forward.

https://bestnewsghana.com/belarus-president-says-vodka-cures-covid-19/

Some folk around here seem to be suffering from Confirmationbiasitis.

Meanwhile, in Heanor, Labour mayor says BoJo deserves to suffer:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-52198488

Remind me, which party is the nasty party? And look me duck, if I had a face like a constipated pig, I wouldn't let it be put out in public.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: rufus the dawg on April 08, 2020, 14:38:42 pm
Quote from: Nïckslïkk2112 on April 08, 2020, 11:40:34 amMeanwhile, in Heanor, Labour mayor says BoJo deserves to suffer:
that is just plain wrong


thanks for the damming. MDB
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: The Letter R on April 08, 2020, 15:00:16 pm
Quote from: Nïckslïkk2112 on April 08, 2020, 11:40:34 amDecisions are being made by people. People do not always make the best decisions. Decisions have to be made on available information. Not all information is available at all times. Not all information is always relevant. People make choices. People don't always make the "right" choice. Not making the "right" choice is not a sign of malice.
So very true.

I am tiring of the Political point scoring and Hindsight brigade that are running around currently blaming everyone for not stockpiling all manner of equipment no one ever dreamt we would have needed a few months back in such volume.
It's impossible to have everything ready immediately for a threat that is unknown. Sure some bad decisions have been made but there have also been some good ones. As if Labour would have responded any better.......
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Bisto on April 08, 2020, 15:32:04 pm
Quote from: Nïckslïkk2112 on April 08, 2020, 11:40:34 amDamming? Won't hold back any water.

Once again, this is people twisting things to suit their own viewpoint. Have you had a look at what's happening in the Netherlands? They went more full on for Herd immunity on a bigger scale than the

https://www.forbes.com/sites/joshuacohen/2020/03/27/caught-between-herd-immunity-and-national-lockdown-holland-hit-hard-by-covid-19/#478cebd33557

Decisions are being made by people. People do not always make the best decisions. Decisions have to be made on available information. Not all information is available at all times. Not all information is always relevant. People make choices. People don't always make the "right" choice. Not making the "right" choice is not a sign of malice.

Meanwhile, in Sweden: Lockdown, what lockdown?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-52076293

OK that's a few days old now, but in Europe countries were making choices that were and still are at odds with what is now happening here.

Meanwhile in Belarus: Coronavirus, what coronavirus? Vodka, Saunas and driving tractors is the way forward.

https://bestnewsghana.com/belarus-president-says-vodka-cures-covid-19/

Some folk around here seem to be suffering from Confirmationbiasitis.

Meanwhile, in Heanor, Labour mayor says BoJo deserves to suffer:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-52198488

Remind me, which party is the nasty party? And look me duck, if I had a face like a constipated pig, I wouldn't let it be put out in public.
In my experience it's predominantly been a sizable majority within the Tory Party, especially while they've been exercising executive power.....and a large minority within the Labour party while they are not
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Chris Quartly on April 08, 2020, 16:15:08 pm
Quote from: The Letter R on April 08, 2020, 15:00:16 pmSo very true.

I am tiring of the Political point scoring and Hindsight brigade that are running around currently blaming everyone for not stockpiling all manner of equipment no one ever dreamt we would have needed a few months back in such volume.
It's impossible to have everything ready immediately for a threat that is unknown. Sure some bad decisions have been made but there have also been some good ones. As if Labour would have responded any better.......

I think the important thing for me at least, is that yes, human decisions are obviously being made and mistakes will be made, the important thing is that mistakes should be admitted rather than "oh we never said that, we never did that, we do have this (when we don't)", etc. People should be accountable for their actions and that includes both praise and criticism. 

I do think it probably would have been a bigger shambles under Corbyn all things considered!
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on April 08, 2020, 16:36:35 pm
Quote from: Chris Quartly on April 08, 2020, 16:15:08 pmI do think it probably would have been a bigger shambles under Corbyn all things considered!
"UK gardeners thankful as government disposes of 20,000 propagators due to Abbott corona virus mix-up"
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: rufus the dawg on April 08, 2020, 20:39:13 pm
Quote from: Nïckslïkk2112 on April 08, 2020, 11:40:34 amQuote from: Nïckslïkk2112 (https://www.t-n-m-s.com/index.php?msg=1270527)Decisions are being made by people. People do not always make the best decisions. Decisions have to be made on available information. Not all information is available at all times. Not all information is always relevant. People make choices. People don't always make the "right" choice. Not making the "right" choice is not a sign of malice.

Quote from: The Letter R on April 08, 2020, 15:00:16 pm
So very true.

I am tiring of the Political point scoring and Hindsight brigade that are running around currently blaming everyone for not stockpiling all manner of equipment no one ever dreamt we would have needed a few months back in such volume.
It's impossible to have everything ready immediately for a threat that is unknown. Sure some bad decisions have been made but there have also been some good ones. As if Labour would have responded any better.......



And they moved away from the governments pandemic plan or follow WHO guidance. And every bad decision cost lives. Holding the government to scrutiny should not be put on hold in fact should be held to account even more. When they tried to do a untried social experiment (Herd immunity) on the country and pulled away from it because of criticism. It had massive consequences because every day more and more people were getting infected.


Thank god people were able to criticise the government.

The new forcasts coming out show we might have up to 60,000 deaths in the UK. Every day the government did not lock down or test means more people got infected and so more people will die. Remember he wanted the job and he's paid to do it. He took the call. He listened to his advisers which turned against standard pandemic procedure. Please bear in mind that there was a pandemic committee that advised to get 20,000 ventilators back in 2016. The job of the government is look after its citizens not run down public services so they can not cope in a crisis. Mervyn King says in is new book that this pandemic is around the corner and it is only a matter of time. How much money has been spent on brexit, how much did they take in to account the pandemic committee?

Then you have to take in to account that the prime minister is basically poor comedian and a hack from a right wing news paper. When he was mayor of London he more less left the job to his advisers and he was often criticised for being a part time mayor. He won an election campaign with going through no scrutiny and a simple slogan. Against the worst opposition leader in living memory and only managed to get 330,000 more votes then the TM. Brexit itself was campaigned with out a plan. He has no life experience in crisis management. He wings every thing he does. Just watch on iplayer the program about the foreign office. It goes behind the scenes when he was the foreign minister. He was an embarrassment.

The whole cabinet is set up to agree with BJ and it has no other goal except brexit and UK first. No wonder they were not ready for this curve ball. The good time boy BJ has to grow up and actually try and take control. So we are now left with Boris Johnson and his motivational speeches based on boring world war two cliques. I'm afraid that dos not make a prime minister.
This is why there so much criticism of the government and the prime minister. Mistakes are being made and they keep giving false promises. And the deaths are racking up. It is a nightmare.

I will put my tin hat on.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Nïckslïkk2112 on April 08, 2020, 22:57:18 pm
Is there a set pandemic procedure? I would think not as all cases will be different.
And as for ventilators, on the BBC news website last night a hospital in Bradford was saying a Hospital's Oxygen supply capabilities aren't designed to cope with current levels of Oxygen usage. Should all new build hospitals have to have excessive levels of redundant capacity to cope with levels over and above now?

So BoJo has no experience in crisis management. How many people do? Come on? How many current politicians are well versed in crisis management? Come on? In a crisis things HAVE to be winged. You have to do things on the hoof. Just sayin'.

And, with regards to herd immunity, it does work. It's worked many times over the course of human history. Anyone get Spanish (probably from China) Flu these days? No. Because your ancestors lived through it. Prima facie Herd immunity.

As I keep pointing out to you in articles sourced from around the world NOWHERE is coping ideally. "Mistakes" are being made all over. How many countries outside the UK are run by BoJo? And I have not heard anything from Bojo based on boring WWII cliques - because such things DO NOT EXIST.

I don't know about you putting a tinfoil hat on - personally, I'd suggest you wear a six inch thick one made of Osmium - you'd be better off taking your blinkers off.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on April 09, 2020, 01:02:28 am
Clearly things are quite different in these remarkable times and many parts of society are being forced to adapt in order to function. News and current affairs programmes have abandoned the concept of guests in the studio and operate, almost entirely, by interviewing contributors over video links such as Skype. Many of these guests are, by necessity, speaking from their homes.
I'm finding it quite amusing to ponder the nature of their surroundings. Some, would appear to take, great care in 'arranging' the items that are likely to be in shot and consequently noticed by thousands of viewers. I know I'm a cynic but the sight of a left-wing commentator displaying his bookshelf full of critiques of capitalism and books on Karl Marx makes me smile.
Best so far though was commentator and author John Kampfner on Newsnight tonight. Just over his right shoulder, attached to the door of the room from where he was positioned, was a large poster advertising a book called 'Blair's Wars' by .......John Kampfner. Couldn't have been more blatant if he'd have tried. Every cloud, eh John?
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Matt2112 on April 09, 2020, 09:30:32 am
Yes, it does appear there's a "Battle of the Bookshelves" going on, to the point, I think it was, where even a BBC Breakfast presenter casually mentioned it.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: zoony on April 09, 2020, 09:59:51 am
Quote from: rufus the dawg on April 08, 2020, 20:39:13 pmThe new forcasts coming out show we might have up to 60,000 deaths in the UK. 
And every one of those deaths is a shame. I read the other day though that seasonal flu killed 50,000 in the UK as recently as 2016, yet no one batted an eyelid to that.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: zoony on April 09, 2020, 10:05:11 am
Have to say I've been impressed with Rishi Sunak during this crisis. Comes across very well and speaks confidently and clearly. A future PM I would say.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: rufus the dawg on April 09, 2020, 14:26:21 pm
Quote from: zoony on April 09, 2020, 09:59:51 amAnd every one of those deaths is a shame. I read the other day though that seasonal flu killed 50,000 in the UK as recently as 2016, yet no one batted an eyelid to that.
That could be 60,000 deaths with a lock down lets hope not. please please not.

There is a very interesting conversion about deaths from Covid 19 and other types of deaths. I think it is touched on in previous pages The figures below are not me casting aspirations and having an answer.

Smoking: In 2018 77,800 deaths attributable to smoking
 
Air pollution: 64,000 people killed by air pollution in the UK every year
 
Obesity: It is estimated that obesity is responsible for more than 30,000 deaths each year. On average, obesity deprives an individual of an extra 9 years of life, preventing many individuals from reaching retirement age. In the future, obesity could overtake tobacco smoking as the biggest cause of preventable death.
Failing to address the challenge posed by the obesity epidemic will place an even greater burden on NHS resources. It is estimated that the NHS spent £6.1 billion on overweight and obesity-related ill-health in 2014 to 2015.


More broadly, obesity has a serious impact on economic development. The overall cost of obesity to wider society is estimated at £27 billion.
The UK-wide NHS costs attributable to overweight and obesity are projected to reach £9.7 billion by 2050, with wider costs to society estimated to reach £49.9 billion per year.
RTAs: Statistics on reported road casualties in Great Britain for the year ending June 2018 show there were:

Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Slim on April 09, 2020, 16:51:37 pm
Quote from: rufus the dawg on April 08, 2020, 20:39:13 pmAnd they moved away from the governments pandemic plan or follow WHO guidance. And every bad decision cost lives.
You haven't yet established that the government has made a single bad decision, and at this point I don't think you're going to.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Matt2112 on April 09, 2020, 17:25:23 pm
Quote from: zoony on April 09, 2020, 10:05:11 amHave to say I've been impressed with Rishi Sunak during this crisis. Comes across very well and speaks confidently and clearly. A future PM I would say.

"Dishy Rishi" the ladies call him, apparently.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: rufus the dawg on April 09, 2020, 18:36:02 pm
Quote from: Slim on April 09, 2020, 16:51:37 pmYou haven't yet established that the government has made a single bad decision, and at this point I don't think you're going to.
yes i have. I have put up a you tube video of the chief medical officer saying there were going for herd immunity. All you have done is put up a letter from Nick Hancock printed in the Telegraph saying we have a plan.....

The time line says it all.

12th march - herd immunity press conference - Italy had 1000 deaths. UK had 460 cases and 6 deaths
16th march - change in tone from BJ. from smug "we can get over this" to "huston we have a problem" on the day imperial college report was released.
23rd March - Lock down UK had 6650 cases 335 deaths

From 12th  march to 23rd march 329 more deaths more 6190 cases

That is 11 days delay and dither from the government, people going up mountain, to beaches, work etc We had 365 deaths on the 23rd of march. It does not take a mathematician to work out that in those 11 days of the virus spread through the country creating more deaths. And then you have to also take into account how the peak is worked out. The peak is now going to be around 12th April. And this the important part.

Portugal did lock down on the day they had one death they now have to date 409 we have over 7000

23 March Lock down

5 -12 day incubation period takes it

27th march

2 Weeks in a ICU takes the peak to 12th April

The Lock down was done  to late. It is obvious. But lets play devils advocate.

If we did not lock down what would the cases be? Then how many deaths would there be? answer on a post card

Will Be

A- Less Covid 19 cases
B- About the same Covid 19 cases
C- A few More cases of Covid 19
D- or could have been 13 million cases?
Crap calculations but....
6650-460=6190
469/6190=0.22
0.22*6190=1362
1362/11=123%
123*17=2091
2091=12.9 million cases with a death rate of 2.5% = 322,500 deaths
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: zoony on April 10, 2020, 11:31:28 am
Amazing pictures on the weather forecast this morning from northern India, where they can actually see the top of the Himalayas from over 120 miles away for the first time in 30 years. This is due to the air quality now following the lockdown measures.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Nïckslïkk2112 on April 10, 2020, 12:37:54 pm
Quote from: rufus the dawg on April 09, 2020, 18:36:02 pmyes i have. I have put up a you tube video of the chief medical officer saying there were going for herd immunity. All you have done is put up a letter from Nick Hancock printed in the Telegraph saying we have a plan.....

The time line says it all.

12th march - herd immunity press conference - Italy had 1000 deaths. UK had 460 cases and 6 deaths
16th march - change in tone from BJ. from smug "we can get over this" to "huston we have a problem" on the day imperial college report was released.
23rd March - Lock down UK had 6650 cases 335 deaths

From 12th  march to 23rd march 329 more deaths more 6190 cases

That is 11 days delay and dither from the government, people going up mountain, to beaches, work etc We had 365 deaths on the 23rd of march. It does not take a mathematician to work out that in those 11 days of the virus spread through the country creating more deaths. And then you have to also take into account how the peak is worked out. The peak is now going to be around 12th April. And this the important part.

Portugal did lock down on the day they had one death they now have to date 409 we have over 7000

23 March Lock down

5 -12 day incubation period takes it

27th march

2 Weeks in a ICU takes the peak to 12th April

The Lock down was done  to late. It is obvious. But lets play devils advocate.

If we did not lock down what would the cases be? Then how many deaths would there be? answer on a post card

Will Be

A- Less Covid 19 cases
B- About the same Covid 19 cases
C- A few More cases of Covid 19
D- or could have been 13 million cases?
Crap calculations but....
6650-460=6190
469/6190=0.22
0.22*6190=1362
1362/11=123%
123*17=2091
2091=12.9 million cases with a death rate of 2.5% = 322,500 deaths
Ah yes, let's stick our finger in the air, see which way the wind is blowing and forecast the year's weather.

Plus, it may sound harsh, but a good 50% (Official UN Dept, of Guesswork figure) of COVID19 related fatalities would have occurred within the year anyway.

And finally Cyril, to pin the blame squarely on Boris you would have to replay this year with a whole raft of different people in charge of the Government. Plug that into your model.

Have mistakes been made? Most probably.
Is the rest of the World mistake free? Most probably not.

Until we have a proven COVID19 antibody test we won't have a true idea of what the COVID19 mortality rate is.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on April 10, 2020, 12:46:58 pm
Quote from: Nïckslïkk2112 on April 10, 2020, 12:37:54 pmAh yes, let's stick our finger in the air, see which way the wind is blowing and forecast the year's weather.

Plus, it may sound harsh, but a good 50% (Official UN Dept, of Guesswork figure) of COVID19 related fatalities would have occurred within the year anyway.

And finally Cyril, to pin the blame squarely on Boris you would have to replay this year with a whole raft of different people in charge of the Government. Plug that into your model.

Have mistakes been made? Most probably.
Is the rest of the World mistake free? Most probably not.

Until we have a proven COVID19 antibody test we won't have a true idea of what the COVID19 mortality rate is.
It is also very likely that people that didn't get COVID 19 will end up dying due to lack of resources in hospitals - ventilators and staff not being available.

Also people that may otherwise have gone to see their GP or A&E will stay away and their condition become much more serious and even life threatening before they finally attend
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: captainkurtz on April 10, 2020, 12:48:11 pm
Doubt a labour government under Corbyn would have done any better - likely a whole lot worse.

The chancellor has done an excellent job.

Rufus, to be fair, look at your very first post in this thread.

Hope everyone stays well and eats loads of Easter eggs...
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on April 10, 2020, 12:51:51 pm
Quote from: döm on April 10, 2020, 12:46:58 pmIt is also very likely that people that didn't get COVID 19 will end up dying due to lack of resources in hospitals - ventilators and staff not being available.

Also people that may otherwise have gone to see their GP or A&E will stay away and their condition become much more serious and even life threatening before they finally attend
Good point...well made
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Nïckslïkk2112 on April 10, 2020, 15:50:42 pm
Quote from: döm on April 10, 2020, 12:46:58 pmIt is also very likely that people that didn't get COVID 19 will end up dying due to lack of resources in hospitals - ventilators and staff not being available.

Also people that may otherwise have gone to see their GP or A&E will stay away and their condition become much more serious and even life threatening before they finally attend
But, with the best will in the world, we only have finite resources. Such as hospitals only having a finite amount of Oxygen capacity, notwithstanding a ventilator shortage. Plus there's no shortage of staff when it comes to recording vidoes of dancing nurses.

With fewer people visiting A&E and GPs it might mean that those who need seeing to do so without being held up by a crowd of malingerers and those who have no need to pay A&E a visit.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Nïckslïkk2112 on April 10, 2020, 15:52:02 pm
Quote from: captainkurtz on April 10, 2020, 12:48:11 pmHope everyone stays well and eats loads of Easter eggs...
But not until Sunday! Oh, that's the eating of Easter Eggs, not staying well.

And how's about a day of fasting and abstinence today and donating monies saved to Charity.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Matt2112 on April 10, 2020, 16:53:08 pm
Quote from: Nïckslïkk2112 on April 10, 2020, 15:52:02 pmAnd how's about a day of fasting and abstinence today and donating monies saved to Charity.

Fasting and abstinence?!  It's a public holiday!  Been grafting all week so I've earned my indulgences, thanks very much.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on April 10, 2020, 19:59:13 pm
Current lockdown to continue in Ireland till May
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on April 10, 2020, 20:22:25 pm
Shocking numbers of deaths daily in the UK, seems to me that we're all becoming a little desensitised.


Partly to blame it seems to me is the obsession with statistics, with 'flattening the curve' etc, this is obscuring the true daily horror we are living through when lives are relegated to numbers, to points on a graph.

Virtually a 1000 deaths per day that are being recorded officially. Stunning, sobering figures.

And in no way am I suggesting it was on purpose but Johnson's time in hospital has served a nice little distraction for much of the media too.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Chris Quartly on April 10, 2020, 20:23:30 pm
Sweden (who to be fair, tend to do most things right) had not issued any lockdowns, and I think even people in this thread have used them as an example of "there isn't a right or wrong way to do this"...

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EVQlRNRWsAApKcS?format=png&name=900x900)
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Nïckslïkk2112 on April 10, 2020, 20:24:17 pm
Quote from: Matt2112 on April 10, 2020, 16:53:08 pmFasting and abstinence?!  It's a public holiday!  Been grafting all week so I've earned my indulgences, thanks very much.
Fasting and abstinence. It should be enforced on 90% of the population based on what I've seen at Tesco's tonight.
Some folk just don't have a clue about social distancing, there were two fat lasses in Tesco's tonight - both were 6'6" wide - walking round looking at their mobiles and they were forever coming by Mrs S and my good self at a distance of about six inches. Given their obese state they'll be croakers if they catch COVID19.

Meanwhile, RMT official gets suspended for his BoJo comments
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/breaking-senior-rmt-official-suspended-21847912
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Nïckslïkk2112 on April 10, 2020, 20:31:08 pm
Quote from: döm on April 10, 2020, 20:22:25 pmVirtually a 1000 deaths per day that are being recorded officially. Stunning, sobering figures.

And in no way am I suggesting it was on purpose but Johnson's time in hospital has served a nice little distraction for much of the media too.
Well, it's hard to say if there are 1,000 deaths a day. Here's a snippet from the BBC's coronavirus feed breaking down today's 866 deaths in England

QuoteFurther 866 deaths announced in England

NHS England has announced 866 further deaths of people who had tested positive for Covid-19.
It brings the total number of confirmed deaths in hospitals in England to 8,114.
Of the new deaths announced today, 117 occurred on 9 April, 720 between 1 April and 8 April, and 29 in March.

Roughly 2,000 people a day die in the UK in normal times and callous as it may sound, the vast majority of COVID19 deaths those with serious health conditions.

And I would suggest that you are putting forward the idea that Boris's hospital stay has been used as a smokescreen.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on April 10, 2020, 20:35:39 pm
Quote from: Nïckslïkk2112 on April 10, 2020, 20:31:08 pmWell, it's hard to say if there are 1,000 deaths a day. Here's a snippet from the BBC's coronavirus feed breaking down today's 866 deaths in England

Roughly 2,000 people a day die in the UK in normal times and callous as it may sound, the vast majority of COVID19 deaths those with serious health conditions.

And I would suggest that you are putting forward the idea that Boris's hospital stay has been used as a smokescreen.
I do think there were more headlines, front pages and column inches than were strictly necessary
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on April 10, 2020, 20:40:23 pm
We are living in a time where people in nursing homes are being left to die. Where people are being forced to agree to DNR. Horrific times
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: zoony on April 10, 2020, 21:38:04 pm
Quote from: captainkurtz on April 10, 2020, 12:48:11 pmHope everyone stays well and eats loads of Easter eggs...
I'll stick to the fruit mate, no chocolate for over 12 months now.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Nïckslïkk2112 on April 10, 2020, 22:27:35 pm
Quote from: döm on April 10, 2020, 20:40:23 pmWe are living in a time where people in nursing homes are being left to die. Where people are being forced to agree to DNR. Horrific times
Well, well before all of this, NHS staff decided that Mrs S's auntie should die. Twice. She celebrated her 92nd birthday a few weeks back and is currently enjoying her time in the nursing home.

We didn't get chance to agree to a DNR for my mum. Wish we had. It would have save them getting her back for five minutes.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Nïckslïkk2112 on April 10, 2020, 22:27:56 pm
Quote from: zoony on April 10, 2020, 21:38:04 pmI'll stick to the fruit mate, no chocolate for over 12 months now.
Dude, have some chocolate covered raisins. Live a little!
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on April 10, 2020, 22:33:24 pm
Quote from: Chris Quartly on April 10, 2020, 20:23:30 pmSweden (who to be fair, tend to do most things right) had not issued any lockdowns, and I think even people in this thread have used them as an example of "there isn't a right or wrong way to do this"...

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EVQlRNRWsAApKcS?format=png&name=900x900)
Where confirmed Covid-19 deaths may not be confirmed Covid-19 deaths. It seems that there are very few stats associated with this pandemic that tell us the truth about what's going on
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: zoony on April 11, 2020, 13:19:02 pm
Quote from: Nïckslïkk2112 on April 10, 2020, 22:27:56 pmDude, have some chocolate covered raisins. Live a little!
Noooo mate, I have to stick at it, for my own good. The days of being the incredible eating machine are well in my past!
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: rufus the dawg on April 11, 2020, 14:53:18 pm
Another very interesting read below.

I find some of the above comments surprising. Yes mistakes have happened and understandable. Every mistakes cost lives- over 9000 so far. If it was your parents, kids dying from this disease, spouse working with out PPE in a hospital you would find these mistakes reckless and unforgivable instead of some of the above #whataboutery. Especially considering the 10 years of chronic heath cuts and Torys suddenly being the NHS's best friend.

Then take in to account the government has not based its decisions on good science but have often been either political or just dither and delay. When you have a populist leader who only cares about popularity it no wonder mistakes have been made.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-britain-path-speci/special-report-johnson-listened-to-his-scientists-about-coronavirus-but-they-were-slow-to-sound-the-alarm-idUSKBN21P1VF (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-britain-path-speci/special-report-johnson-listened-to-his-scientists-about-coronavirus-but-they-were-slow-to-sound-the-alarm-idUSKBN21P1VF)

here are some snippets

Charles Bellm, managing director of Intersurgical, a global supplier of medical ventilation products based outside London, said he has been contacted by more than a dozen governments around the world, including France, New Zealand and Indonesia. But there had been no contact from the British government. "I find it somewhat surprising, I have spoken to a lot of other governments," he said.

What allowed Britain to alter course, said Edmunds, was a lockdown in Italy that "opened up the policy space" coupled with new data. First came a paper by Edmunds' own London School team that examined intermittent lockdowns, sent to the modelling committee on March 11 and validated by Edinburgh University. Ferguson's revised Imperial research followed.

Vallance, the government's chief scientific adviser, who chaired SAGE, said in a BBC interview on March 13 that the plan was to simply control the pace of infection. The government had, for now, rejected what he called "eye-catching measures" like stopping mass gatherings such as football games or closing schools. The "aim is to try and reduce the peak, broaden the peak, not to suppress it completely." Most people would get the virus mildly, and this would build up "herd immunity" which, in time, would stop the disease's progress.

Medley added: "At the moment we don't know what's going to happen in six months. All we know is that unless we stop transmission now, the health service will collapse. Yep, that's the only thing we know for sure."
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: zoony on April 11, 2020, 17:13:26 pm
Heard the sad news earlier that Paul Piercey, former guitarist with RUSH tribute band, Bravado, has passed away from covid-19. I saw Paul in action several times with Bravado, and he was very good, and a nice guy. RIP Paul.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Slim on April 11, 2020, 18:08:08 pm
Spot on here, from Dan Hodges (apart from the grammar). I don't get why this is so hard to understand. People are already wanting to know when they can get back to normal.


(http://truth.justdied.com/images/hodges_correct.png)
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Slim on April 11, 2020, 18:12:39 pm
Quote from: rufus the dawg on February 28, 2020, 20:23:30 pmHopefully all markets will bounce back. I do feel there is a lot of unnecessary early fear about.

Yes, I think you were right here. But then it started to get used as a political football by the Leftwaffe, still frustrated and angry at their own impotence as demonstrated to them rather rudely on December 12th. And I'm afraid you started to aim a few shots on goal yourself, most of which went out for a throw-in.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Slim on April 11, 2020, 18:28:01 pm
I've been maintaining a spreadsheet of the daily death toll, morbid as that may sound. This is what the raw figures look like now, from March 14th to the present day:

(http://truth.justdied.com/images/graph11apr01.png)

But when you smooth them using a 6-day moving average, you get this:

(http://truth.justdied.com/images/graph11_smth_apr01.png)


.. and there's a definite change in the trend for the period Mar 31 - Apr 4 - which I think probably demonstrates that the 'lockdown' had a definite and identifiable effect on the rate of infection (as shown by the rate of deaths).

This doesn't actually mean (I suspect) that substantially fewer people will be infected in the end, but it does mean (possibly) that the NHS is significantly less likely to be overwhelmed by too many cases all at once.

Glad to see that Priti Patel took the daily press conference today - given she's the Home Secretary I do think there was a question mark over her non-appearances so far. Confident and reassuring performance.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on April 11, 2020, 19:23:20 pm
Priti did the right thing and apologised for NHS staff not getting sufficient PPE. I don't see Matt Hancock making it through this crisis.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: rufus the dawg on April 11, 2020, 19:23:37 pm
did priti smirk?

Its a shame she did not appear for the select committee. Seemed to find time to turn it down 4 times bit managed to do media interviews....
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Nïckslïkk2112 on April 11, 2020, 22:25:15 pm
Quote from: zoony on April 11, 2020, 13:19:02 pmNoooo mate, I have to stick at it, for my own good. The days of being the incredible eating machine are well in my past!
Happen you know best Zooners. Figures show that of those needing critical care, 75% had a BMI above the recommended healthy level

QuoteNearly three-quarters of the patients had a body mass index higher than the recommended healthy level of 18.5 to 25. Some 35% had a BMI of 25 to 30 - the overweight range. And 38.5% had a BMI over more than 30 - putting them in the obese range.

But then again, that probably mirrors UK society.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: captainkurtz on April 11, 2020, 22:36:42 pm
Quote from: DavidL on April 11, 2020, 19:23:20 pmPriti did the right thing and apologised for NHS staff not getting sufficient PPE. I don't see Matt Hancock making it through this crisis.
Did she apologise?  She apologised if people 'felt' there has been failings.  Quite different.

She has been totally invisible for the last few days but I think she's had her eyebrows done in the downtime - they looked fabulous.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on April 11, 2020, 22:53:11 pm
Quote from: captainkurtz on April 11, 2020, 22:36:42 pmDid she apologise?  She apologised if people 'felt' there has been failings.  Quite different.

She has been totally invisible for the last few days but I think she's had her eyebrows done in the downtime - they looked fabulous.
Nothing worse than that sort of caveated on feeling apology. Either apologise or don't. A pathetic attempt.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on April 11, 2020, 23:58:45 pm
Quote from: döm on April 11, 2020, 22:53:11 pmNothing worse than that sort of caveated on feeling apology. Either apologise or don't. A pathetic attempt.
Perhaps, at some point, the 'proper' apology will come from the person that should deliver it   >:(
I get that you do not feel any warmth towards her  ;)
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on April 12, 2020, 00:01:57 am
Quote from: Nïckslïkk2112 on April 11, 2020, 22:25:15 pmHappen you know best Zooners. Figures show that of those needing critical care, 75% had a BMI above the recommended healthy level
Me and the wife had made the observation that an awful lot of the people succumbing to the disease appeared to be overweight.
Priti might want to lose a stone or two
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on April 12, 2020, 00:35:25 am
Quote from: DavidL on April 11, 2020, 23:58:45 pmPerhaps, at some point, the 'proper' apology will come from the person that should deliver it  >:(
I get that you do not feel any warmth towards her  ;)
You know me too well David !
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: zoony on April 12, 2020, 13:42:11 pm
Quote from: Nïckslïkk2112 on April 11, 2020, 22:25:15 pmHappen you know best Zooners. Figures show that of those needing critical care, 75% had a BMI above the recommended healthy level

But then again, that probably mirrors UK society.
Even though I've shed 4 and a half stone, my BMI is still 30.6. That's still a lot better than the 38.5 it was previously though.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Nïckslïkk2112 on April 12, 2020, 13:48:10 pm
Quote from: zoony on April 12, 2020, 13:42:11 pmEven though I've shed 4 and a half stone, my BMI is still 30.6. That's still a lot better than the 38.5 it was previously though.
Worked mine out today, it's 21 :) Mrs S would kill me if I revealed what hers was (It's not as bad as I thought it would be though...)
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Matt2112 on April 12, 2020, 14:00:10 pm
Mine's 29, so technically overweight - but then so are many athletes with much more muscle than fat.  ;)
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Richard_2112 on April 12, 2020, 14:18:36 pm
Tim Brooke-Taylor of The Goodies has reportedly died from coronavirus
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: rufus the dawg on April 12, 2020, 14:34:47 pm
Quote from: Richard_2112 on April 12, 2020, 14:18:36 pmTim Brooke-Taylor of The Goodies has reportedly died from coronavirus
No No no no no no No No no no no no No No no no no no No No no no no no
Im cryng over this.....
I'm sorry I havent a clue....rip Tim
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: rufus the dawg on April 12, 2020, 14:35:26 pm
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8164389/2016-Government-pandemic-exercise-revealed-NHS-shortages-lack-protective-equipment.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8164389/2016-Government-pandemic-exercise-revealed-NHS-shortages-lack-protective-equipment.html)
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: zoony on April 12, 2020, 16:33:58 pm
Quote from: Nïckslïkk2112 on April 12, 2020, 13:48:10 pmWorked mine out today, it's 21 :) Mrs S would kill me if I revealed what hers was (It's not as bad as I thought it would be though...)
Bloody hell Simmers, you can't be far off what I would call skin and bone then!
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Bez on April 13, 2020, 12:41:52 pm
Quote from: zoony on April 12, 2020, 16:33:58 pmBloody hell Simmers, you can't be far off what I would call skin and bone then!
....and Bile, Zooners, don't forget the bile...
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Nïckslïkk2112 on April 13, 2020, 12:58:04 pm
Quote from: Bez on April 13, 2020, 12:41:52 pm....and Bile, Zooners, don't forget the bile...
I don't know what you're on about.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: rufus the dawg on April 13, 2020, 21:11:55 pm
Quote from: Slim on April 11, 2020, 18:28:01 pmI've been maintaining a spreadsheet of the daily death toll
Apparently in Spain (Channel 4 news) half of all of all deaths were in care homes. And we (UK) are not counting them yet.


I saw the other day that the official daily figures were over 900, they then revised the figures to nearly 1600 a few days later.

I watched the video of BJ this morning and it was the first time I have ever seen him be serious and not pull a silly smirk. I just which he would stop the war references. This is an Humanitarian crisis not a war. I am pleased he is getting better.

I am really hoping he's had his road to Damascus moment and funds the NHS properly.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Nïckslïkk2112 on April 13, 2020, 22:46:56 pm
Quote from: rufus the dawg on April 13, 2020, 21:11:55 pmApparently in Spain (Channel 4 news) half of all of all deaths were in care homes. And we (UK) are not counting them yet.
We're counting them, but not in the daily toll. Not all the time. Are you sure the Spanish were including them in theirs? The French certainly weren't and I don't think the Italians were either.
Even in our official figures most announced each day were actually in the preceding week, so it' hard to tell from the headline figures exactly what's going on.

Oh, and Channel 4 News is even less reliable than the BBC.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: zoony on April 13, 2020, 23:03:29 pm
Somebody at our place in a different department developed a cough 4 days ago, and was told to leave the site. Area was cordoned off where he'd been and a specialist firm were called in to fumigate it. He wasn't named, but those that have been in close contact with him have been informed. Just glad I've got 2 to do before I'm off for 20 days.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: The Letter R on April 14, 2020, 12:53:50 pm
Interesting article below in the National Geographic about how air pollution may have helped the spread of COVID 19 and how the air is becoming cleaner due to lockdown and why it may get worse when we come out of lockdown.


https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/2020/04/pollution-made-the-pandemic-worse-but-lockdowns-clean-the-sky/ (https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/2020/04/pollution-made-the-pandemic-worse-but-lockdowns-clean-the-sky/)
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Slim on April 15, 2020, 18:56:14 pm
As of today, the death figures mapped onto a graph look like this:

(http://truth.justdied.com/images/rawdeath_200415.png)

and smoothed out using a 6-day moving average, they look like this:

(http://truth.justdied.com/images/smoothdeath_200415.png)

.. while that's still a picture of tragedy of course, nonetheless on the face of it there's a degree of encouragement to be had there with respect to the trend. But it may be that under-reporting due to the Easter break has played a part. My instinct is that the government's decisive action and careful timing, guided by the very best scientific advice has been successful in preventing the NHS from being overwhelmed (and I was pleased to hear the Health Secretary report today that spare capacity in terms of beds is presently at a record high). But we'll see.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: rufus the dawg on April 15, 2020, 23:01:59 pm
Quote from: Slim on April 15, 2020, 18:56:14 pmMy instinct is that the government's decisive action and careful timing, guided by the very best scientific advice has been successful in preventing the NHS from being overwhelmed (and I was pleased to hear the Health Secretary report today that spare capacity in terms of beds is presently at a record high). But we'll see.



The problem with you assessment is that hardly anyone in the media agrees with you and more importantly- Ireland have 486 deaths Germany have 4042 compared to the UKs 12,868. Ireland were closing schools we were still washing hands.

Then you have to take in to account the financial implications for the UK because we were so slow to react and therefore hit much harder.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on April 16, 2020, 11:26:57 am
So, the target of 25,000 tests by mid-April has not been met and it's looking increasingly likely that the 'goal' of 100,000 tests by April end will not be met either.
Yesterday 15,994 tests were carried out but.... only on 11,170 people (as some needed checking twice). Let's see whether Mr Hancock will be Heath Secretary by the end of May. 'Sqeaky bum time' for Matthew.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on April 16, 2020, 11:35:25 am
Meanwhile, many health 'experts' are stating that the UK has reached the peak of infections. I believe that the new London Nightingale Hospital (capacity 4,000), is treating 19 patients. I guess we should be thankful but the modelling around this pandemic has been woeful.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: rufus the dawg on April 16, 2020, 11:38:26 am
Quote from: DavidL on April 16, 2020, 11:26:57 amSo, the target of 25,000 tests by mid-April has not been met and it's looking increasingly likely that the 'goal' of 100,000 tests by April end will not be met either.
Yesterday 15,994 tests were carried out but.... only on 11,170 people (as some needed checking twice). Let's see whether Mr Hancock will be Heath Secretary by the end of May. 'Sqeaky bum time' for Matthew.
not just Matt the governemnt in general. If you look at whats happened in Germany we are falling short.....way short. That is what you get from cut cut cut dogma and look after your self right wing mentality. Then add in politicians who win elections based on catchy 3 word punch lines. Let look at the difference Angela Merkel -scientific background Boris Johnson used to write for the Times and Telegraph and one of them he got sacked from for lying.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: rufus the dawg on April 16, 2020, 11:39:54 am
Quote from: DavidL on April 16, 2020, 11:35:25 amMeanwhile, many health 'experts' are stating that the UK has reached the peak of infections. I believe that the new London Nightingale Hospital (capacity 4,000), is treating 19 patients. I guess we should be thankful but the modelling around this pandemic has been woeful.
Yes my step daughter said that in her hospital the cases have gone down and there are some clear wards. Thank what ever god you support or the particles in the universe!
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on April 16, 2020, 11:57:45 am
Quote from: rufus the dawg on April 16, 2020, 11:38:26 amnot just Matt the governemnt in general. If you look at whats happened in Germany we are falling short.....way short. That is what you get from cut cut cut dogma and look after your self right wing mentality. Then add in politicians who win elections based on catchy 3 word punch lines. Let look at the difference Angela Merkel -scientific background Boris Johnson used to write for the Times and Telegraph and one of them he got sacked from for lying.
Apples and Pears! Germany has a pharmaceutical and biotech industry that is far more suited to implementing nationwide testing quickly and efficiently. Merkel may rate as a political titan in your mind but she is fallible and has made some big mistakes. Migrants is a big one and energy policy. Scientist or not she's still a politician who makes poor decisions from time to time.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: rufus the dawg on April 16, 2020, 12:30:18 pm
Quote from: DavidL on April 16, 2020, 11:57:45 amApples and Pears! Germany has a pharmaceutical and biotech industry that is far more suited to implementing nationwide testing quickly and efficiently. Merkel may rate as a political titan in your mind but she is fallible and has made some big mistakes. Migrants is a big one and energy policy. Scientist or not she's still a politician who makes poor decisions from time to time.
and we dont have a biotech business in the UK. Just google it. its massive.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on April 16, 2020, 13:13:10 pm
Quote from: rufus the dawg on April 16, 2020, 12:30:18 pmand we dont have a biotech business in the UK. Just google it. its massive.
Well that's the excuse the government are using!!
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on April 16, 2020, 14:06:22 pm
Quote from: rufus the dawg on April 16, 2020, 12:30:18 pmand we dont have a biotech business in the UK. Just google it. its massive.
Yes I just did Google it. German Biopharma industry is not far off twice the size of the UK's. Perhaps you should've taken your own advice!  ;)
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: rufus the dawg on April 16, 2020, 14:20:30 pm
Quote from: DavidL on April 16, 2020, 14:06:22 pmYes I just did Google it. German Biopharma industry is not far off twice the size of the UK's  ;)
....and this is the problem and does not explain this - Ireland have done 8.69 tests per 1,000 people, while the UK had performed four tests per 1,000 people - with 269,598 people tested in total as of 11 April in the UK. With your thinking David the republic of Ireland have a bigger pharmaceutical business than us.

You have taken into account all the veterinary testing we can do and private testing sites. Then also add all the university test labs.

Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Nïckslïkk2112 on April 16, 2020, 15:03:08 pm
Quote from: DavidL on April 16, 2020, 11:57:45 amApples and Pears! Germany has a pharmaceutical and biotech industry that is far more suited to implementing nationwide testing quickly and efficiently. Merkel may rate as a political titan in your mind but she is fallible and has made some big mistakes. Migrants is a big one and energy policy. Scientist or not she's still a politician who makes poor decisions from time to time.
And Germans are much more health obsessed than the UK populace. The Kur is big in Germany and they're the sort of people who will shit onto a shelf so they can inspect it for worms...
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Nïckslïkk2112 on April 16, 2020, 15:08:26 pm
Quote from: rufus the dawg on April 15, 2020, 23:01:59 pmThe problem with you assessment is that hardly anyone in the media agrees with you and more importantly- Ireland have 486 deaths Germany have 4042 compared to the UKs 12,868. Ireland were closing schools we were still washing hands.
But you have to look at Irish Demographics. They all live in isolated Turf Huts in the middle of bogs. And as I've said about the Germans they have a much bigger obsession with health than we do.

Referring back to you saying Angela Merkel has a scientific background, I don't think Quantum Chemistry is a prerequisite fir political nous. Be interesting to see if we'd have fared better if former research Chemist the Blesses Margaret Thatcher were in charge though.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: rufus the dawg on April 16, 2020, 15:19:48 pm
Quote from: Nïckslïkk2112 on April 16, 2020, 15:08:26 pmBut you have to look at Irish Demographics. They all live in isolated Turf Huts in the middle of bogs. And as I've said about the Germans they have a much bigger obsession with health than we do.

Referring back to you saying Angela Merkel has a scientific background, I don't think Quantum Chemistry is a prerequisite fir political nous. Be interesting to see if we'd have fared better if former research Chemist the Blesses Margaret Thatcher were in charge though.
I would prefer thatcher to boris in this situation. Just look on how we refer to them. One was a serious politician and refer to her by her sir name. The other we refer to a in first name who's built a bumbling persona and changed his name to reflect that and be liked.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on April 16, 2020, 16:26:29 pm
Quote from: rufus the dawg on April 16, 2020, 15:19:48 pmI would prefer thatcher to boris in this situation. Just look on how we refer to them. One was a serious politician and refer to her by her sir name. The other we refer to a in first name who's built a bumbling persona and changed his name to reflect that and be liked.
Good point
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on April 16, 2020, 16:31:06 pm
Quote from: Nïckslïkk2112 on April 16, 2020, 15:03:08 pmAnd Germans are much more health obsessed than the UK populace. The Kur is big in Germany and they're the sort of people who will shit onto a shelf so they can inspect it for worms...
I never knew that was the name for those weird toilets where your log sits on a shelf stinking before you flush it off. First came across them in Austria, thankfully they seem to be less poopular now. They love their pork knuckle, must've had a big problem with tapeworm back in the day!!
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: The Letter R on April 16, 2020, 17:31:17 pm
Quote from: DavidL on April 16, 2020, 11:26:57 amSo, the target of 25,000 tests by mid-April has not been met and it's looking increasingly likely that the 'goal' of 100,000 tests by April end will not be met either.
Yesterday 15,994 tests were carried out but.... only on 11,170 people (as some needed checking twice). Let's see whether Mr Hancock will be Heath Secretary by the end of May. 'Sqeaky bum time' for Matthew.
We will never hit 100k as part of that was supposed to be the antibody have you had it test but as far as I can ascertain there still is not a confirmed test that works properly as yet.
Having said that we will still be way short of that number.
Sadly I have heard of 2 cases from the Chessington World of Adventures test centre - one where the results were lost and another where someone turned up at the appointed time and all the testers were all at lunch......
We're taking it seriously then!!
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on April 16, 2020, 17:41:14 pm
Quote from: The Letter R on April 16, 2020, 17:31:17 pmWe will never hit 100k as part of that was supposed to be the antibody have you had it test but as far as I can ascertain there still is not a confirmed test that works properly as yet.

Matt Hancock (Mr. Bean) originally said the total of tests would include both antigen tests and antibody tests. He then changed his mind when he found out that reliable antibody testing did not exist. However, he continues to insists that 100K by month end is the target
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on April 17, 2020, 08:12:12 am
Ah-so, the Chinese are now saying 50% more  have died of Covid-19 in the Wuhan region than they first reported. They've made mugs of the WHO.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on April 17, 2020, 11:32:03 am
Quote from: DavidL on April 17, 2020, 08:12:12 amAh-so, the Chinese are now saying 50% more  have died of Covid-19 in the Wuhan region than they first reported. They've made mugs of the WHO.
Anything coming out of China should be treated with great suspicion but looking at the struggle other countries have had in providing accuracy with Covid-19 it is perhaps understandable
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on April 17, 2020, 11:36:12 am
Quote from: döm on April 17, 2020, 11:32:03 amAnything coming out of China should be treated with great suspicion but looking at the struggle other countries have had in providing accuracy with Covid-19 it is perhaps understandable
I understand that they are are totalitarian regime that will do as much as they can to conceal the truth when the truth reflects badly on them. Unfortunately the WHO don't seem to understand that!
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: zoony on April 17, 2020, 13:45:16 pm
Quote from: DavidL on April 17, 2020, 08:12:12 amAh-so, the Chinese are now saying 50% more  have died of Covid-19 in the Wuhan region than they first reported. They've made mugs of the WHO.
The dirty bastards have fecked us all over!
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on April 17, 2020, 13:50:40 pm
Quote from: zoony on April 17, 2020, 13:45:16 pmThe dirty bastards have fecked us all over!
That just about sums it up!
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: zoony on April 17, 2020, 13:53:09 pm
Quote from: DavidL on April 17, 2020, 13:50:40 pmThat just about sums it up!
My main work mate went there for a month a few years back, and although he saw some fascinating places, he said the hygiene and some of the things that they eat leaves a lot to be desired.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: rufus the dawg on April 17, 2020, 16:36:27 pm
Quote from: DavidL on April 17, 2020, 11:36:12 amI understand that they are are totalitarian regime that will do as much as they can to conceal the truth when the truth reflects badly on them. Unfortunately the WHO don't seem to understand that!
remember we are putting care home deaths, deaths that have happened in the public. we are only recording hospital deaths? has that changed?
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Slim on April 17, 2020, 17:45:14 pm
It's very difficult to know how many people have been killed in any country. Certainly, the care home deaths aren't being counted in the most prominent daily figure. But then again of the 847 in the most recent figure, how many were actually killed by the virus and how many merely infected with it at the time they died? Unfortunately reporting methods vary from country to country.

I'm just hearing on the BBC that Professor Anthony Costello has announced that the government was "too slow to act". Professor Costello is a Labour supporting left-wing activist. His background is in paediatrics; as far as I'm aware he has no special expertise in virology or the transmission of infectious diseases, but naturally his political stance is far more important than his expertise to the BBC and they're milking it for all it's worth.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: captainkurtz on April 17, 2020, 18:40:02 pm
So you're suggesting his political leanings are clouding his judgement?  There's a lot of that about...
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Slim on April 17, 2020, 19:15:27 pm
Possibly, or possibly not. But I don't think it's a matter of questionable judgement that the hand-wringers and outrage specialists that the BBC manages to dig up nearly always turn out to be left-wing activists. I think it's entirely deliberate.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on April 17, 2020, 19:27:15 pm
If this article's conclusion are right, the question should not be, "why did the UK government not initiate lockdown sooner? " But "why did the UK government initiate lockdown at all?"

https://medium.com/@tepper_jonathan/ground-zero-when-the-cure-is-worse-than-the-disease-3c513d91393d
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Exiled Yorkie on April 17, 2020, 21:24:50 pm
Gotta love Captain Tom,

I am honoured to be also from Keighley and born on the same day as this fine example of a human being.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: rufus the dawg on April 17, 2020, 23:23:39 pm
Quote from: Slim on April 17, 2020, 17:45:14 pmIt's very difficult to know how many people have been killed in any country. Certainly, the care home deaths aren't being counted in the most prominent daily figure. But then again of the 847 in the most recent figure, how many were actually killed by the virus and how many merely infected with it at the time they died? Are you for real???? Unfortunately reporting methods vary from country to country.

I'm just hearing on the BBC that Professor Anthony Costello has announced that the government was "too slow to act". Professor Costello is a Labour supporting left-wing activist. Of course he is he criticised the government how silly of me to think otherwise 

His background is in paediatrics; as far as I'm aware he has no special expertise in virology or the transmission of infectious diseases, but naturally his political stance is far more important than his expertise to the BBC and they're milking it for all it's worth. 2015 Costello was Professor of International Child Health and Director of the Institute for Global Health at the University College London (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_College_London)




Political bias...do you read your own threads which is 100% full of political bias. 

BTW what qualities does Matt Hancock have to be Heath Secretary? Obviously he he clever but has no back ground in heath. So with your thinking he should not have the job. What qualities does BJ have to be Prime Minister? A second rate comedian sacked journalist whos day job is to have affairs, get divorced and speak in war cliches? 

It is well known that the government are only listening to the scientists that agree with them.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on April 18, 2020, 00:01:19 am
Oh dear. Medics are now finding that putting covid-19 patients on ventilation may be making matters worse in terms of outcomes. The knee-jerk demand for 1000s of ventilators may have been misguided. Seems to be taking an awful long time to learn lessons during this crisis.
Back to your vacuum cleaners then, Mr Dyson.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: captainkurtz on April 18, 2020, 00:38:25 am
Where's Dominic Cummings gone?
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Slim on April 18, 2020, 16:22:25 pm
Quote from: captainkurtz on April 18, 2020, 00:38:25 amWhere's Dominic Cummings gone?
How could that possibly be important? He's a political strategist. If he was seen talking to Dominic Raab or walking in and out of No 10 every day people would be complaining that the government's response was being driven by party politics. He's probably at home like everyone else.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Slim on April 18, 2020, 16:25:19 pm
This is interesting, I think. My friend Mike posted this on another Rush forum :

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.14.20062463v1.full.pdf

A report from Stanford University suggesting that the fatality rate might be a lot lower than assumed.

"A hundred deaths out of 48,000-81,000 infections corresponds to an infection fatality rate of 0.12-0.2%."

In the Lombardy region of Italy alone, approximately 12 thousand deaths have been reported as I type, from a population of 10 million.

That's 0.12%, which is very consistent with the Stanford study, assuming that a high proportion of the Lombardy population was infected (and bearing in mind that of those infected, not all those who are likely to die have done so yet).
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: rufus the dawg on April 18, 2020, 16:29:21 pm
Quote from: Slim on April 18, 2020, 16:22:25 pmHow could that possibly be important? He's a political strategist. If he was seen talking to Dominic Raab or walking in and out of No 10 every day people would be complaining that the government's response was being driven by party politics. He's probably at home like everyone else.
Well the Sun thinks he is back at work, so does the independent. Oh and ITV and the Mail btw the Express and Star think so also.

Maybe now he is back to work he will put together an exit strategy for Boris the man without a plan.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: captainkurtz on April 18, 2020, 17:18:17 pm
Quote from: Slim on April 18, 2020, 16:22:25 pmHow could that possibly be important? He's a political strategist. If he was seen talking to Dominic Raab or walking in and out of No 10 every day people would be complaining that the government's response was being driven by party politics. He's probably at home like everyone else.
He was seen walking in and out of Number 10 quite often.  Usually dressed like a tramp/park flasher (he likes weirdos, I believe).

Haven't seen him for a while, is all.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Bisto on April 19, 2020, 00:50:15 am
Quote from: Slim on April 18, 2020, 16:25:19 pmThis is interesting, I think. My friend Mike posted this on another Rush forum :

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.14.20062463v1.full.pdf

A report from Stanford University suggesting that the fatality rate might be a lot lower than assumed.

"A hundred deaths out of 48,000-81,000 infections corresponds to an infection fatality rate of 0.12-0.2%."

In the Lombardy region of Italy alone, approximately 12 thousand deaths have been reported as I type, from a population of 10 million.

That's 0.12%, which is very consistent with the Stanford study, assuming that a high proportion of the Lombardy population was infected (and bearing in mind that of those infected, not all those who are likely to die have done so yet).


The Population may be 10m but the number of infected will be less than 1 in 10 you've put your decimal point in the wrong place...the actual death rate as a percentage of those known to be infected* is 18.49% in Lombardy

64,135 Confirmed infections*
11,851 confirmed Deaths

That's the most relevant figure...because it's concrete** data rather than open ended



https://www.google.com/search?q=what+is+the+current+number+of+covid19+infections+in+Lombardy%3F&oq=what+is+the+current+number+of+covid19+infections+in+Lombardy%3F&aqs=chrome..69i57.28600j0j7&client=ms-unknown&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8

         

**The elephant in the room is that the criteria, the testing methodology and the data sources used are misleading, flawed and incomplete; testing positive for what? The specific novel Covid19 Virus antigens, or an unspecified Corona class virus antigen? The vast majority of the hospital deaths are as a result of complications from Pneumonia as well as organ shut down and/or Sepsis and other secondary infections caused by  respiratory infections (which may or may not be Covid19) in people with underlying health issues and compromised immune systems. How many Flu deaths are actually being reported though? How many extra respiratory virus deaths have there actually been on top of the typical deaths from Flu?
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: captainkurtz on April 19, 2020, 11:23:23 am
Pretty damning news headlines this morning...
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: rufus the dawg on April 19, 2020, 12:22:36 pm
Johnson missed 5 Cobra meetings. Churchill my arse...more like Boris the Lampholder.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on April 19, 2020, 12:31:41 pm
5 weeks where the UK could have prepared itself for what was coming, wasted!
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Thailand Express on April 19, 2020, 17:51:08 pm
Quote from: DavidL on April 17, 2020, 08:12:12 amAh-so, the Chinese are now saying 50% more  have died of Covid-19 in the Wuhan region than they first reported. They've made mugs of the WHO.
I'm sure they won't get fooled again...
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Thailand Express on April 19, 2020, 17:52:13 pm
Quote from: Exiled Yorkie on April 17, 2020, 21:24:50 pmGotta love Captain Tom,

I am honoured to be also from Keighley and born on the same day as this fine example of a human being.
You must be the world's oldest Rush fan?
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on April 19, 2020, 17:56:11 pm
Quote from: Thailand Express on April 19, 2020, 17:52:13 pmYou must be the world's oldest Rush fan?
;D ;D
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: zoony on April 19, 2020, 18:52:56 pm
Quote from: döm on April 19, 2020, 12:31:41 pm5 weeks where the UK could have prepared itself for what was coming, wasted!
Hindsight is a wonderful thing. EVERY country in the world would have done things quicker, and differently if they had known how serious this virus was going to be. It's no good moaning about it now though,  just follow the instructions and be patient.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on April 19, 2020, 19:27:06 pm
Quote from: zoony on April 19, 2020, 18:52:56 pmHindsight is a wonderful thing. EVERY country in the world would have done things quicker, and differently if they had known how serious this virus was going to be. It's no good moaning about it now though,  just follow the instructions and be patient.
Having experts on hand to predict what is coming and to prepare for what was coming is a wonderful thing too and much more useful than hindsight. Johnson didn't even bother to attend. Negligence of the highest order and he needs to be pulled on it
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Nick on April 19, 2020, 19:52:43 pm
Are we going to trust the same clowns with their Brexit plans and promises? Don't reply to this post, just a casual observation!
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Nïckslïkk2112 on April 19, 2020, 21:27:29 pm
Quote from: rufus the dawg on April 19, 2020, 12:22:36 pmJohnson missed 5 Cobra meetings. Churchill my arse...more like Boris the Lampholder.
Maybe he trusts his underlings?
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on April 19, 2020, 21:31:04 pm
Quote from: döm on April 19, 2020, 19:27:06 pmHaving experts on hand to predict what is coming and to prepare for what was coming is a wonderful thing too and much more useful than hindsight. Johnson didn't even bother to attend. Negligence of the highest order and he needs to be pulled on it
Was there a consensus among the experts? Are WHO experts? They said that there was no evidence of human to human transmission in mid-January. Strikes me that health experts are much like economists, i.e in a room full of 20, you will get 20 different opinions. This could be the reason that politicians go with the experts that suit them. Did we require a 'lockdown'?
Had the government not enforced one there would have been cries that they were sacrificing lives to save business. Tories destroying the economy? Most unusual, I'd say.
Like the article I posted earlier said, the cure may be worse than the disease. I think the government were prepared to have their arms twisted to avoid criticism. As always, I could be (very) wrong!
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Nïckslïkk2112 on April 19, 2020, 22:44:08 pm
Whenever Human populations grow too large, pandemics come along to offer a correction. Usually a previously unknown Zoonosis.
In our current "civilised" state we think we're above that and we can rise above it with our Science and Technology. Prepare to be culled puny humans. Prepare for a paradigm shift.

As always, there is a (very) remote chance I could be wrong...
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on April 19, 2020, 23:32:43 pm
Quote from: Nïckslïkk2112 on April 19, 2020, 22:44:08 pmWhenever Human populations grow too large, pandemics come along to offer a correction. Usually a previously unknown Zoonosis.
In our current "civilised" state we think we're above that and we can rise above it with our Science and Technology. Prepare to be culled puny humans. Prepare for a paradigm shift.

As always, there is a (very) remote chance I could be wrong...
And having Johnson and Trump in charge at the same time as this pandemic will make it particularly effective.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on April 20, 2020, 08:01:48 am
Quote from: döm on April 19, 2020, 12:31:41 pm5 weeks where the UK could have prepared itself for what was coming, wasted!
https://healthmedia.blog.gov.uk/2020/04/19/response-to-sunday-times-insight-article/
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: rufus the dawg on April 20, 2020, 10:56:21 am
Quote from: DavidL on April 20, 2020, 08:01:48 amhttps://healthmedia.blog.gov.uk/2020/04/19/response-to-sunday-times-insight-article/
The problem is this-- to quote

"The WHO did not formally declare that coronavirus was a Public Health Emergency of International Concern (PHEIC) until 30 January, and only characterised it as a global pandemic more than a month later, on 11 March. The UK was taking action and working to improve its preparedness from early January."

UK went in to lock down on 23rd march. That is 2 weeks of differ and delay. Most other EU countries went in to lock down and have less death rate.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on April 20, 2020, 11:02:59 am
Quote from: rufus the dawg on April 20, 2020, 10:56:21 amUK went in to lock down on 23rd march. That is 2 weeks of differ and delay. Most other EU countries went in to lock down and have less death rate.
Can you please be a bit more specific and what calculation/figures you are using for death rate? Thanks
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Nïckslïkk2112 on April 20, 2020, 11:17:25 am
Quote from: döm on April 19, 2020, 23:32:43 pmAnd having Johnson and Trump in charge at the same time as this pandemic will make it particularly effective.
No it won't.
It will be just as effective come what may. Now the rates of spread may vary, but the effectiveness of the virus remains the same.

Unless a vaccine is found for artificially induced herd immunity, then at some point COVID19 will have to work its way through the world's population.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Nïckslïkk2112 on April 20, 2020, 11:21:45 am
Quote from: rufus the dawg on April 20, 2020, 10:56:21 amThe problem is this-- to quote

"The WHO did not formally declare that coronavirus was a Public Health Emergency of International Concern (PHEIC) until 30 January, and only characterised it as a global pandemic more than a month later, on 11 March. The UK was taking action and working to improve its preparedness from early January."

UK went in to lock down on 23rd march. That is 2 weeks of differ and delay. Most other EU countries went in to lock down and have less death rate.
And it looks as if the UK will be slower at coming out of Lockdown than other European countries. We can then learn from what they go through and have an easier passage through the other side. Swings and roundabouts.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-52351982
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on April 20, 2020, 11:27:49 am
In today's press:
David Nabarro, professor of global health at Imperial College London and envoy for WHO on Covid-19 says that we are going to have to live with the virus for the "foreseeable future" as there is no guarantee that a successful vaccine will be developed.
However, Sarah Gilbert, professor of vaccinology at Oxford University said the prospects of finding a vaccine for Covid-19 are"very good" and she is "80% sure" that the one they are developing will work.
Two 'experts', two different views. If you were the government which one would you rely on??
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on April 20, 2020, 11:48:13 am
Got to love the efforts our friends overseas are going to in order to help with the UK's PPE shortage. 
God bless globalism!

https://www.facebook.com/1494524812/posts/10217464543114206/?
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: rascal houdi on April 20, 2020, 12:17:39 pm
Stumbled upon this on CNN the other night whilst waiting for the Donald Trump Comedy Hour.  Probably would have slipped under the radar otherwise as I haven't seen it reported on Sky or BBC.  How to accuse an entire nation of being racist in 2 minutes:

You Clap For Me Now (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXGIt_Y57tc)
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on April 20, 2020, 13:06:45 pm
Quote from: DavidL on April 20, 2020, 11:48:13 amGot to love the efforts our friends overseas are going to in order to help with the UK's PPE shortage.
God bless globalism!

https://www.facebook.com/1494524812/posts/10217464543114206/?
Talk me through this David?
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on April 20, 2020, 13:08:45 pm
Quote from: rascal houdi on April 20, 2020, 12:17:39 pmStumbled upon this on CNN the other night whilst waiting for the Donald Trump Comedy Hour.  Probably would have slipped under the radar otherwise as I haven't seen it reported on Sky or BBC.  How to accuse an entire nation of being racist in 2 minutes:

You Clap For Me Now (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXGIt_Y57tc)
Good old Guardian!

"comments are turned off" - I wonder why??  >:(
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on April 20, 2020, 13:09:17 pm
Quote from: döm on April 20, 2020, 13:06:45 pmTalk me through this David?
can you not see the video?
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: captainkurtz on April 20, 2020, 18:26:09 pm
Quote from: rascal houdi on April 20, 2020, 12:17:39 pmStumbled upon this on CNN the other night whilst waiting for the Donald Trump Comedy Hour.  Probably would have slipped under the radar otherwise as I haven't seen it reported on Sky or BBC.  How to accuse an entire nation of being racist in 2 minutes:

You Clap For Me Now (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXGIt_Y57tc)
Yeah....I understand the sentiment, but it's a bit Ill-conceived...
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Slim on April 20, 2020, 19:51:56 pm
Quote from: döm on April 19, 2020, 19:27:06 pmHaving experts on hand to predict what is coming and to prepare for what was coming is a wonderful thing too and much more useful than hindsight. Johnson didn't even bother to attend. Negligence of the highest order and he needs to be pulled on it

This is just crap, sorry. It's entirely normal for the PM not to attend COBRA meetings; that's why the various secretaries of state are employed to do what they do. Boris Johnson has as yet "missed" no COBRA meeting.

I'm pleased to be able to tell you that the government did and does have experts on hand throughout this whole unfortunate episode, and that, as Rishi Sunak explained yet again this afternoon for the hard of thinking, the government has acted promptly on it at all times. There is as yet not a shred of credible evidence that the government has been negligent in the slightest regard.

One of the most unfortunate aspects of this whole sorry saga is the attempt by the left to weaponise the virus for political purposes. I was pleased to see the government surgically dismember the Sunday Times hatchet job today and even more pleased to note that the public are not buying the shit that's been served up for them by the Leftwaffe,as indicated by the latest polls showing an increase in the PM's approval rating.


https://healthmedia.blog.gov.uk/2020/04/19/response-to-sunday-times-insight-article/
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Slim on April 20, 2020, 20:11:33 pm
Looks like our closest neighbour may have mishandled the Coronavirus crisis quite badly - some implications there for our own citizens resident in Northern Ireland if the Irish are making a mess of things on the other side a soft border. Grim times.



(http://truth.justdied.com/images/ireland_shambles.jpg)
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: rufus the dawg on April 20, 2020, 21:26:15 pm
Good to see the Eton types are sending NHS workers to the front line without the proper equipment. Its WW1 all over again. 

Cowards leading Men. And they are asking us to clap them.

NB. I know how the right wing like a good war metaphor.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Slim on April 20, 2020, 22:33:34 pm
Quote from: rufus the dawg on April 20, 2020, 21:26:15 pmGood to see the Eton types are sending NHS workers to the front line without the proper equipment. Its WW1 all over again.

Cowards leading Men. And they are asking us to clap them.

NB. I know how the right wing like a good war metaphor.

This is exactly the sort of unpleasant, divisive rhetoric that has led to ordinary people holding the left, and more recently elements of the mainstream media, in contempt. If I were you I'd have a think about how this sort of hateful spite worked out for you and the rest of the class warfare keyboard regiment on December 12th.

Where's the cowardice, exactly? What would your reaction be if Boris Johnson appeared on your telly and announced that he'd asked Matt Hancock to let people cough their lives out at home rather than admit them to hospitals, because the staff may not always have all the proper equipment? Would that qualify as bravery, in your world? Is that what the government would do if it consisted entirely of people educated at comprehensives and grammar schools instead of Eton? If not, how on Earth is the public school system relevant to this?

I think it's awful that frontline NHS workers are having to risk their own health in treating their patients, where that is actually the case. But this is an utterly unprecedented and unpredictable situation and it's not the government's fault that there's a worldwide shortage of the suitable PPE.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Nïckslïkk2112 on April 20, 2020, 22:49:28 pm
Quote from: Slim on April 20, 2020, 22:33:34 pmand it's not the government's fault that there's a worldwide shortage of the suitable PPE.
Yeah but, they've had exercises and simulations where it was shown in a pandemic situation that the NHS - prostrates himself on floor for two minutes in its honour - that it would run dangerously short of PPE. So There.

Of course, post any simulation, questions will be asked such as: How much will it cost to procure enough PPE? How much will it cost to store said PPE? What is the shelf life of PPE?

And the big question: What is the chance of this happening? What? Once in 250years? Bugger it, we've got better things to spend money on and/or we'll have to get people to pay more tax for something that most probably won't happen in their lifetime.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on April 21, 2020, 00:55:24 am
Seems like the DHSC (or someone from that organisation) has been setting up fake accounts as NHS staff praising Government policy with regard to COVID. Naughty!

https://twitter.com/jdpoc/status/1252266724449230848?s=19
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on April 21, 2020, 00:56:19 am
Covid-19 seems to have given an excuse for some Parisians to invite the riot police back onto the streets of the 'city of love'. Not much in the news but violence, burning vehicles and tear gas are à la mode....again.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on April 21, 2020, 09:07:59 am
If the Sunday Times and the Daily Mail are left wing, just where do you get right wing news these days? Choice seems to becoming increasingly limited. Broadcast media even worse! The BBC, C4, Sky are all Troskyist supported organisations even ITV has that Communist Peston spouting anti government bile these days.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: rufus the dawg on April 21, 2020, 11:11:03 am
Quote from: Slim on April 20, 2020, 22:33:34 pmThis is exactly the sort of unpleasant, divisive rhetoric that has led to ordinary people holding the left, and more recently elements of the mainstream media, in contempt. If I were you I'd have a think about how this sort of hateful spite worked out for you and the rest of the class warfare keyboard regiment on December 12th.

Where's the cowardice, exactly? What would your reaction be if Boris Johnson appeared on your telly and announced that he'd asked Matt Hancock to let people cough their lives out at home rather than admit them to hospitals, because the staff may not always have all the proper equipment? Would that qualify as bravery, in your world? Is that what the government would do if it consisted entirely of people educated at comprehensives and grammar schools instead of Eton? If not, how on Earth is the public school system relevant to this?

I think it's awful that frontline NHS workers are having to risk their own health in treating their patients, where that is actually the case. But this is an utterly unprecedented and unpredictable situation and it's not the government's fault that there's a worldwide shortage of the suitable PPE.
Yes because the Eton types cut funding to the NHS and did not follow through on the Pandemic report in 2016. Says you who comes up with all sorts of nasty right wing rubbish with words like "snivelling". They cut the deficit and put up the national debt. Great thinking. Then they did not put up the taxes for the likes of Jacob Rees Mogg or invest in infrastructure so the country did not grow. Then we went on a worthless 5 year Brexit campaign costing the country billions. All in Etons and your name. 
BTW. It's the right wing that keep coming up with the war metaphors for an humanitarian crisis.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on April 21, 2020, 12:29:16 pm
et tu, Telegraph
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Nïckslïkk2112 on April 21, 2020, 13:38:19 pm
Quote from: rufus the dawg on April 21, 2020, 11:11:03 amThey cut the deficit and put up the national debt.
Get an education. Please.
If you cannot work out how that happens, then your opinion is worthless. FACT.

Quote from: undefinedYes because the Eton types cut funding to the NHS
Cut funding eh? Since 2008 NHS budgets rose 1.4% on average adjusting for inflation

QuoteThough funding for the Department of Health and Social Care continues to grow, the rate of growth slowed during the period of austerity that followed the 2008 economic crash. Budgets rose by 1.4 per cent each year on average (adjusting for inflation) in the 10 years between 2009/10 to 2018/19, compared to the 3.7 per cent average rises (https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/publications/nhs-70-does-the-nhs-need-more-money) since the NHS was established. 
https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/projects/nhs-in-a-nutshell/nhs-budget

Now that may or may not be as much as the NHS needs, but that is a separate argument.

And just to try and wind you up a tad, I'd much rather be led by somebody educated at Eton than by some working-class thicko from a bog-standard comprehensive.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: pdw1 on April 21, 2020, 13:53:52 pm
Of all the 'facts' and data being thrown at us, I think this graph is the most useful at actually showing us what is going on.

(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/16645/production/_111871719_mortality_01-nc.png)

Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on April 21, 2020, 15:56:29 pm
Quote from: pdw1 on April 21, 2020, 13:53:52 pmOf all the 'facts' and data being thrown at us, I think this graph is the most useful at actually showing us what is going on.

(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/16645/production/_111871719_mortality_01-nc.png)


That puts it into some context for me. The graph appears to show that close to the peak (hopefully (latest figures)) we have seen  excess deaths beyond 2015 only for a short period with a max.(?) of around 2500 excess deaths compared to that year's peak. I hope the measures taken are proportionate, especially when you factor in the 'indirect' excess deaths and economic damage. :-\
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on April 22, 2020, 10:57:16 am
Was listening to More or Less, the Radio 4 statistics show. They were chatting to an epidemiologist who was analysing the daily death figures. Those figures are not necessarily just from the previous day but could have actually occurred anything up to a month previously. 

He had access to the actual date the deaths occured. From this he could see that the actual peak date was 8th April. 

Looks like the lockdown has been effective and some sort of loosening could well be around the corner
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: rufus the dawg on April 22, 2020, 16:43:54 pm
(https://firstdogonthemoon.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/CovidBlameGame-800x1423.jpg)
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: rufus the dawg on April 22, 2020, 16:56:14 pm
Quote from: döm on April 21, 2020, 12:29:16 pmet tu, Telegraph
Even the Tory graph is critical of the numpties now.

Only the idiot Charles Moore is still polishing Johnson's arse, but he looks increasingly isolated in the right wing pamphlet.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on April 22, 2020, 18:38:05 pm
Mandatory face masks must be coming as Germany leads the way.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: zoony on April 22, 2020, 20:32:49 pm
Quote from: DavidL on April 22, 2020, 18:38:05 pmMandatory face masks must be coming as Germany leads the way.
That's if you can get hold of one. I've brought a few home from work, and wear one when I go shopping. Would rather make sure that NHS workers have them though.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Chris Quartly on April 22, 2020, 20:39:23 pm
They don't need to be medical masks, in New York we also have to wear masks outside, but they can be anything that covers your face. Scarves, etc, if needs be.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: zoony on April 22, 2020, 20:47:37 pm
Quote from: Chris Quartly on April 22, 2020, 20:39:23 pmThey don't need to be medical masks, in New York we also have to wear masks outside, but they can be anything that covers your face. Scarves, etc, if needs be.
There was a Professor talking on breakfast tv this morning, and she said just a scarf or something similar with 2 layers of cotton can stop 95% of germs being spread from your mouth.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: captainkurtz on April 22, 2020, 21:13:36 pm
Quote from: Chris Quartly on April 22, 2020, 20:39:23 pmThey don't need to be medical masks, in New York we also have to wear masks outside, but they can be anything that covers your face. Scarves, etc, if needs be.
I knew I should have got the missus to wear a burqua
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: pdw1 on April 22, 2020, 23:04:56 pm
Quote from: captainkurtz on April 22, 2020, 21:13:36 pmI knew I should have got the missus to wear a burqua
I think you would look good in one too  ;)
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: rufus the dawg on April 22, 2020, 23:42:13 pm
gawd know if this is true....but I could believe it

https://skwawkbox.org/2020/04/21/biggest-political-scandal-since-cambridge-analytica-about-to-break-as-fake-nhs-accounts-set-up-by-dept-of-health/#comments (https://skwawkbox.org/2020/04/21/biggest-political-scandal-since-cambridge-analytica-about-to-break-as-fake-nhs-accounts-set-up-by-dept-of-health/#comments)
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: rufus the dawg on April 23, 2020, 00:12:42 am
Starmer nobbled Raaaaaaaaab today at the dispatch box
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: rufus the dawg on April 23, 2020, 00:31:01 am
The government keeps going on about how fantastic they are.

German Covid 19 deaths 5279
UK Covid 19 deaths 18,100

Just think how more deaths there would be if the UK government was just average?
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on April 23, 2020, 09:27:13 am
Quote from: rufus the dawg on April 23, 2020, 00:31:01 amThe government keeps going on about how fantastic they are.

German Covid 19 deaths 5279
UK Covid 19 deaths 18,100

Just think how more deaths there would be if the UK government was just average?
France Covid-19 deaths?
Spain Covid-19 deaths?
Italy Covid-19 deaths?
(All full members of the venerable EU) Try taking the average including those figures. Stop wasting your time, we established that you don't think much of this government months ago.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Matt2112 on April 23, 2020, 09:30:56 am
Quote from: rufus the dawg on April 23, 2020, 00:12:42 amStarmer nobbled Raaaaaaaaab today at the dispatch box
An unexpected takeaway I got from this semi-virtual PMQs was that among the ranks of the Tory Party there's quite a bit of nice totty. Finally, a unchallengeable reason to like them.

;)
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on April 23, 2020, 09:52:15 am
Quote from: DavidL on April 23, 2020, 09:27:13 amFrance Covid-19 deaths?
Spain Covid-19 deaths?
Italy Covid-19 deaths?
(All full members of the venerable EU) Try taking the average including those figures.
Let's be honest, comparing country figures is an unrewarding task to judge the efficacy of measures taken to put it mildly. Whether in the actual counting. (Deaths outside of hospitals counted  or not). Also different countries have different age profiles, population densities etc etc.
Also time to prepare for the incident. The likes of Spain and especially Italy didn't get the sort of heads up of what was on its way that other countries did

Having said that Vietnam have done an astonishing job in keeping the virus to an absolute minimum. Even this is only half the story. This is a global pandemic and needs a global solution.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: rufus the dawg on April 23, 2020, 11:56:18 am
Quote from: DavidL on April 23, 2020, 09:27:13 amFrance Covid-19 deaths?
Spain Covid-19 deaths?
Italy Covid-19 deaths?
(All full members of the venerable EU) Try taking the average including those figures. Stop wasting your time, we established that you don't think much of this government months ago.


Yes. do you want me quote them to? but why. Every country is independent, I think you are miss understanding the EU. They can do what they want. We did have to leave the EU to be independent. and do what we want.

I am comparing a fantastic government "global Britain"  "brilliant" "we can fight this" UK with a government who are just getting on with it?
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: rufus the dawg on April 23, 2020, 12:02:22 pm
Quote from: döm on April 23, 2020, 09:52:15 amHaving said that Vietnam have done an astonishing job in keeping the virus to an absolute minimum. Even this is only half the story. This is a global pandemic and needs a global solution.
and this is the problem with "Global Britain" and other right wing countries. They work independently and do not want to get involved with a global solution. The ventilator row shows this. Trump and his America first argument and pulling out of the WHO; and so letting china fill in the funding gap shows this. Handing all the WHO soft power to china. They seem to know the price of everything and the value of nothing.


They seem not to understand leverage.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Nïckslïkk2112 on April 23, 2020, 13:50:55 pm
Quote from: rufus the dawg on April 23, 2020, 12:02:22 pmand this is the problem with "Global Britain" and other right wing countries. They work independently and do not want to get involved with a global solution. The ventilator row shows this. Trump and his America first argument and pulling out of the WHO; and so letting china fill in the funding gap shows this. Handing all the WHO soft power to china. They seem to know the price of everything and the value of nothing.


They seem not to understand leverage.
And the EU has been really useful in it's COVID19 response within their domain. It's been every country for itself. Ask the Italians.
I know Horses wear blinkers, but dawgs? Oh, you must have one of those anti-scratch collars on!

Is China filling in the WHO funding gap? Sources please.

Until Trump pulled US funding, the US were the largest providers with the UK - yes the puny little insular UK - as the third largest funders, above Germany and below Bill and Melinda Gates. The Chinese provided less than Norway.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: rufus the dawg on April 23, 2020, 14:03:07 pm
Quote from: Nïckslïkk2112 on April 23, 2020, 13:50:55 pmAnd the EU has been really useful in it's COVID19 response within their domain. It's been every country for itself. Ask the Italians.
I know Horses wear blinkers, but dawgs? Oh, you must have one of those anti-scratch collars on!

yes that is what i said. Every country for themselves. you do need to leave the EU to be independent. And then they come together when they want to.
Quote from: Nïckslïkk2112 on April 23, 2020, 13:50:55 pmIs China filling in the WHO funding gap? Sources please.

no sources, it was a comment made by a professor on the radio- his reaction to USA pulling out of WHO. Because China like to influence by soft power.

We shall see.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on April 23, 2020, 14:48:28 pm
Quote from: rufus the dawg on April 23, 2020, 14:03:07 pmno sources, it was a comment made by a professor on the radio- his reaction to USA pulling out of WHO. 

The US have not "pulled out of the WHO", they've suspended their contributions pending an inquiry into the WHO's actions to Covid-19.

Has someone spiked your water bowl, Rufus?
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Nïckslïkk2112 on April 23, 2020, 15:20:10 pm
Quote from: rufus the dawg on April 23, 2020, 14:03:07 pmyes that is what i said. Every country for themselves. you do need to leave the EU to be independent. 
But it ISN'T what you said. You were just singling out the UK and presumably the US. You mentioned
Quote "Global Britain" and other right wing countries.
no mention of any others. Any shit I spout is carefully worked out shit designed to try and piss people off. You appear to just spout (dog)shit.

And it also appears that a source - which isn't a source - didn't even say the things you intimated they did.

This is a serious business. And I'm in the business of seeking information from as many sources as possible to point out that nowhere is dealing with it perfectly. Now I must go out on my bike to Pant out coronaviruses.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on April 23, 2020, 16:25:27 pm
The evidence from the US during the flu epidemic of 1918 seems to suggest that the earlier the better in terms of locking down and not to be tempted loosen restrictions too soon...

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/history/2020/03/how-cities-flattened-curve-1918-spanish-flu-pandemic-coronavirus/
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on April 23, 2020, 19:04:54 pm
Quote from: döm on April 23, 2020, 16:25:27 pmThe evidence from the US during the flu epidemic of 1918 seems to suggest that the earlier the better in terms of locking down and not to be tempted loosen restrictions too soon...

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/history/2020/03/how-cities-flattened-curve-1918-spanish-flu-pandemic-coronavirus/
Pretty irrelevant for 2020, I would suggest.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on April 23, 2020, 19:27:49 pm
Quote from: DavidL on April 23, 2020, 19:04:54 pmPretty irrelevant for 2020, I would suggest.
I wonder how they lived lockdowns back then. No home shopping, no video calling, no box set video streaming!

I suppose anywhere rural would have been self sufficient but living in cities would have been pretty tough.

Things were obviously very, very different back then but I'm sure lessons can be learned.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: zoony on April 23, 2020, 21:00:01 pm
Quote from: döm on April 23, 2020, 19:27:49 pmI wonder how they lived lockdowns back then. No home shopping, no video calling, no box set video streaming.
Plenty of shagging I suppose! No doubt there will be a baby boom coming up early next year.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: rufus the dawg on April 23, 2020, 21:12:20 pm
Quote from: Nïckslïkk2112 on April 23, 2020, 15:20:10 pmBut it ISN'T what you said. You were just singling out the UK and presumably the US. You mentioned no mention of any others. Any shit I spout is carefully worked out shit designed to try and piss people off. You appear to just spout (dog)shit.

And it also appears that a source - which isn't a source - didn't even say the things you intimated they did.

This is a serious business. And I'm in the business of seeking information from as many sources as possible to point out that nowhere is dealing with it perfectly. Now I must go out on my bike to Pant out coronaviruses.
my original message....

and this is the problem with "Global Britain" and other right wing countries. They work independently and do not want to get involved with a global solution. The ventilator row shows this. Trump and his America first argument and pulling out of the WHO; and so letting china fill in the funding gap shows this. Handing all the WHO soft power to china. They seem to know the price of everything and the value of nothing.


They seem not to understand leverage.


Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: rufus the dawg on April 23, 2020, 21:15:15 pm
Quote from: Nïckslïkk2112 on April 23, 2020, 13:50:55 pmAnd the EU has been really useful in it's COVID19 response within their domain. It's been every country for itself. Ask the Italians.
I know Horses wear blinkers, but dawgs? Oh, you must have one of those anti-scratch collars on!

Is China filling in the WHO funding gap? Sources please.

Until Trump pulled US funding, the US were the largest providers with the UK - yes the puny little insular UK - as the third largest funders, above Germany and below Bill and Melinda Gates. The Chinese provided less than Norway.
and you seem to forget. the governers of the US states are acting independently from the central government. Just like the EU.

BTW have got any flour yet? I was offered 10kg the other day?
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: rufus the dawg on April 24, 2020, 22:10:30 pm
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/24/revealed-dominic-cummings-on-secret-scientific-advisory-group-for-covid-19 (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/24/revealed-dominic-cummings-on-secret-scientific-advisory-group-for-covid-19)

I am sure I can hear hard drives been smashed and shredders working over time.

Those pesky elected bureaucrats.

no I meant unelected.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on April 24, 2020, 22:19:52 pm
Some speculation that the reason those with dark skin appear to be more susceptible to covid-19 could be linked to vitamin D deficiency, mostly caused by a lack of sunlight. Interesting.

https://hospitalhealthcare.com/covid-19/is-vitamin-d-an-important-biomarker-for-symptom-severity-in-covid-19/
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Nïckslïkk2112 on April 24, 2020, 22:25:46 pm
Quote from: DavidL on April 24, 2020, 22:19:52 pmSome speculation that the reason those with dark skin appear to be more susceptible to covid-19 could be linked to vitamin D deficiency, mostly caused by a lack of sunlight.
So why aren't all the white teenage/young adult males who spend all day in their bedrooms playing computer games dying on their droves?

I'll answer it, they're the ultimate social distancers...
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: pdw1 on April 25, 2020, 09:41:29 am
Quote from: Slim on April 18, 2020, 16:22:25 pmHow could that possibly be important? He's a political strategist. If he was seen talking to Dominic Raab or walking in and out of No 10 every day people would be complaining that the government's response was being driven by party politics. He's probably at home like everyone else.
And now we know the truth. Dominic Cummings is sitting in on the main scientific committee SAGE.
I wonder why the government wanted to keep that secret ::)
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on April 25, 2020, 10:18:43 am
https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/04/24/strokes-coronavirus-young-patients/#click=https://t.co/U2mMiN0nED

Worrying development
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: zoony on April 25, 2020, 10:30:43 am
It seems that the average age of the victims of covid-19 is 58.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Bisto on April 25, 2020, 12:17:02 pm
Quote from: zoony on April 25, 2020, 10:30:43 amIt seems that the average age of the victims of covid-19 is 58.
Where did you see/hear this Rob?
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on April 25, 2020, 16:41:27 pm
Quote from: Bisto on April 25, 2020, 12:17:02 pmWhere did you see/hear this Rob?
That was in one hospital that Newsnight were reporting from last night. Can't recall where the report was from now.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: zoony on April 25, 2020, 18:58:07 pm
Quote from: Bisto on April 25, 2020, 12:17:02 pmWhere did you see/hear this Rob?
I saw it on the early evening news last night mate, but thinking about it it may have just been in the one hospital they were running a feature on. It wouldn't surprise me if that was round about the correct average age though.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: rufus the dawg on April 26, 2020, 15:07:16 pm
Crikey, this does not look good.

https://twitter.com/carolecadwalla/status/1254315149135151104 (https://twitter.com/carolecadwalla/status/1254315149135151104)
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Slim on April 26, 2020, 22:26:26 pm
Nothing that Codswallop types looks particularly good, to be fair.

And on that general theme, this from Nadine Dorries caught my eye earlier:

(http://truth.justdied.com/images/nadine_trust.png)

I've been saying for a while that this crisis involving millions of vulnerable people has been used as a political football, at their expense. And from the Sky News polling it looks as though this hasn't been lost on the general public.

I'm disappointed to see that Matt Hancock, who has worked very hard and effectively indeed throughout this whole episode is slightly into negative figures, there. I'm not particularly surprised to see that Keir Starmer is considerably less trusted than any of the other politicians represented following the transparently scheming and dishonest Brexit position he espoused at the election.

But right at the bottom, by some distance - overwhelmingly distrusted by the populace - are the newspapers and the television journos.

While listening to the Drive show on 5 Live a couple of weeks ago I was struck by the number of people phoning in to criticise the journalists they'd just heard haranguing the government for timing on an end to the lockdown. The majority of callers and texters were saying: for god's sake, let the government get on with protecting us and the NHS and stop trying to get in their way.

Holding a government to account is one thing, but the butthurt media's continual attention seeking; their constant efforts to do political damage and to trip up and undermine the same government that is trying to oversee a huge effort to save many thousands of lives and protect the NHS that they hold dear has earned them the contempt of the people.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Slim on April 26, 2020, 22:33:31 pm
Quote from: rufus the dawg on April 26, 2020, 15:07:16 pmCrikey, this does not look good.

https://twitter.com/carolecadwalla/status/1254315149135151104 (https://twitter.com/carolecadwalla/status/1254315149135151104)

(http://truth.justdied.com/images/sage_nope.png)

Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Slim on April 26, 2020, 22:41:12 pm
This is what the trend on reported hospital deaths looks like, following today's figure of 413. An awful number of tragedies, but at least encouraging that the burden on the NHS is decreasing.

(http://truth.justdied.com/images/trend26apr.png)
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: rufus the dawg on April 26, 2020, 23:30:05 pm
Quote from: Slim on April 26, 2020, 22:41:12 pmThis is what the trend on reported hospital deaths looks like, following today's figure of 413. An awful number of tragedies, but at least encouraging that the burden on the NHS is decreasing.

(http://truth.justdied.com/images/trend26apr.png)
And just think if they locked down earlier and closed flights which still are not stopped how many less victims there would be.

One week ago my neighbours girlfriend flew in from Brazil to Heathrow had have not had to quarantine. How stupid is that.

Political football. Would the right used it to their advantage. YES. Did Mrs thatcher use the war in the Falklands to her political advantage. YES. I guess what you are really saying is that you don't want the government held to account. Hard lines it is happening. And the quiet destroyer (Starmer) did it against Raaab and he will do against Johnston.

Brexit. I did not realise that after the referendum you were only allowed one view on Brexit or even change your mind.  Is that your idea of democracy - one political view? I could go and find a quote from David Davis but you know it.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Matt2112 on April 27, 2020, 09:42:19 am
Bloody hell, I agree with Nadine Dorries.

Truly, these are the End Times.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on April 27, 2020, 11:21:01 am
Not sure what else the journalists are supposed to do ?  What questions should they ask?  They are there to ensure they are doing their job and leading the country in the best interests of everyone.  That's what they are doing.

They would be doing the nation a disservice if they were just to applaud the Government for their sterling efforts.  Perhaps that what the public want.  In a time of crisis we should all get together against the enemy perhaps.  I don't agree with that.  Leaders should be questioned to stop complacency and corruption.  It is certainly right to question whether Cummings is on SAGE.  Interesting that now we are told he isn't, yet the membership of that group is kept secret. 

Left leaning is the usual nonsense you get from Dorries - everything appears from the left  from her perspective.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Slim on April 27, 2020, 11:40:10 am
Quote from: rufus the dawg on April 26, 2020, 23:30:05 pmBrexit. I did not realise that after the referendum you were only allowed one view on Brexit or even change your mind.  Is that your idea of democracy - one political view? I could go and find a quote from David Davis but you know it.

Any idea what Rufus is talking about, anyone? I referred to a patently dishonest election campaign which has rightly corroded (or if you like "quietly destroyed", hehe) the public's trust in Keir Starmer, but I'm struggling to imagine what this drivel about a right to change your mind is about.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on April 27, 2020, 11:46:42 am
From its short stay in the Cycling thread:

I don't doubt that Matt Hancock is working very hard to get on top of issues ("straining every sinew" etc) but he seems to be largely failing. The worst aspect of his performance is an apparent failure to communicate the real situation on the ground, some would say he is continually misleading the public. There were some shocking figures today on the numbers of tests relating to care homes. Someone in his position cannot continue to assure the public that the government is addressing the shortcomings when the situation on the ground says otherwise....or progress is achingly slow.
I don't think he's cut out to have a real significant effect in areas that he says he has responsibility for. At the press conferences he cuts a nervous, tetchy figure who is clearly out of his depth.
One important rule in politics: under promise and over deliver. Hancock has decided to turn that mantra on its head.
If he fails to achieve 100k tests (NOT test capacity) a day by the end of the week, he needs to move aside. Hopefully, Boris will have the balls to do what needs to be done.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Slim on April 27, 2020, 11:47:37 am
Quote from: rufus the dawg on April 26, 2020, 23:30:05 pmAnd just think if they locked down earlier and closed flights which still are not stopped how many less victims there would be.

Could you show us your calculations on this? What I think has gone over your head is that the lockdown was timed carefully and precisely for maximum effect on the expert advice of behavioural scientists as well as epidemiologists, because - exactly as we're seeing now - measures like a lockdown are only sustainable for a limited time.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Slim on April 27, 2020, 11:55:33 am
Quote from: DavidL on April 27, 2020, 11:46:42 amI don't doubt that Matt Hancock is working very hard to get on top of issues ("straining every sinew" etc) but he seems to be largely failing. The worst aspect of his performance is an apparent failure to communicate the real situation on the ground, some would say he is continually misleading the public. There were some shocking figures today on the numbers of tests relating to care homes. Someone in his position cannot continue to assure the public that the government is addressing the shortcomings when the situation on the ground says otherwise....or progress is achingly slow.
I don't think he's cut out to have a real significant effect in areas that he says he has responsibility for. At the press conferences he cuts a nervous, tetchy figure who is clearly out of his depth.
One important rule in politics: under promise and over deliver. Hancock has decided to turn that mantra on its head.
If he fails to achieve 100k tests a day by the end of the week (not capacity), he needs to move aside. Hopefully, Boris will have the balls to do what needs to be done.

Be assured that Boris will do exactly what needs to be done if we don't get up to 100k tests a day by the end of the week - keep Matt Hancock firmly in place. Because that will hardly be Matt's fault. The worst you could say in that circumstance is that Matt over-promised. If he'd promised 80k a day then he'd have over-delivered, but it wouldn't actually make a difference to one patient's life. I hope you can at least agree that no-one will be opening their wrists due to disappointment over testing figures.

Like many I'd assumed that Matt had got a job in cabinet as a sort of consolation, a reward for offering Boris his support after stepping down from the leadership campaign. But as usual it turns out that Boris Johnson knew exactly what he was doing. Matt Hancock has been an extremely confident and effective performer in that role. He might look understandably tired but he's far from out of his depth and very probably hundreds or thousands of people owe their lives to his diligence and hard work.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Slim on April 27, 2020, 12:00:38 pm
Quote from: döm on April 27, 2020, 11:21:01 amNot sure what else the journalists are supposed to do ?  What questions should they ask?  They are there to ensure they are doing their job and leading the country in the best interests of everyone.  That's what they are doing.

Dom, I honestly love the sentiment you express in your signature. I hope you've arranged a generous overdraft limit.

What I think a substantial number of journalists - not all of them - are doing, is fighting a mean-spirited retaliatory campaign for two wars they've already lost, in June 2016 and December 2019. There's nothing in the public's interest about this at a time of crisis, and as we've now seen - the public understands this very well.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on April 27, 2020, 12:15:32 pm
Quote from: Slim on April 27, 2020, 11:55:33 amBe assured that Boris will do exactly what needs to be done if we don't get up to 100k tests a day by the end of the week - keep Matt Hancock firmly in place. Because that will hardly be Matt's fault. The worst you could say in that circumstance is that Matt over-promised. If he'd promised 80k a day then he'd have over-delivered, but it wouldn't actually make a difference to one patient's life. I hope you can at least agree that no-one will be opening their wrists due to disappointment over testing figures.

Like many I'd assumed that Matt had got a job in cabinet as a sort of consolation, a reward for offering Boris his support after stepping down from the leadership campaign. But as usual it turns out that Boris Johnson knew exactly what he was doing. Matt Hancock has been an extremely confident and effective performer in that role. He might look understandably tired but he's far from out of his depth and very probably hundreds or thousands of people owe their lives to his diligence and hard work.
I suspect we'll continue to disagree on this one.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on April 27, 2020, 13:14:44 pm
Quote from: Slim on April 27, 2020, 12:00:38 pmDom, I honestly love the sentiment you express in your signature. I hope you've arranged a generous overdraft limit.


I really don't think you believe that do you ?  That I'm lying?  Our views may be diametrically opposed but I at least think you believe  the codswallap you come up with !
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: rufus the dawg on April 27, 2020, 19:12:43 pm
Quote from: Slim on April 27, 2020, 12:00:38 pm- are doing, is fighting a mean-spirited retaliatory campaign for two wars they've already lost, 
Wars- I  am left wondering where these Wars were. You right wingers love your WAR metaphors. Why is every thing a war. 

Are you some state of conflict in 2016 and 2019? did you have WAR meals. 

You forgot to answer about Mrs T political gain from the Falkland islands conflict.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: rufus the dawg on April 27, 2020, 19:18:47 pm
Quote from: Slim on April 27, 2020, 11:40:10 am
Quote from: Slim on April 26, 2020, 22:26:26 pmI'm not particularly surprised to see that Keir Starmer is considerably less trusted than any of the other politicians represented following the transparently scheming and dishonest Brexit position he espoused at the election.

Any idea what Rufus is talking about, anyone? I referred to a patently dishonest election campaign which has rightly corroded (or if you like "quietly destroyed", hehe) the public's trust in Keir Starmer, but I'm struggling to imagine what this drivel about a right to change your mind is about.


Brexit. I did not realise that after the referendum you were only allowed one view on Brexit or even change your mind.  Is that your idea of democracy - one political view? I could go and find a quote from David Davis but you know it.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: rufus the dawg on April 27, 2020, 19:27:40 pm
Quote from: Slim on April 27, 2020, 11:47:37 amCould you show us your calculations on this? What I think has gone over your head is that the lockdown was timed carefully and precisely for maximum effect on the expert advice of behavioural scientists as well as epidemiologists, because - exactly as we're seeing now - measures like a lockdown are only sustainable for a limited time.
I did them a few pages back.

Before the lock down the infection rate was more than one.

After the lock down the infection rate is below one.

The longer we did not lock down the more people we have got infected because the infection rate was above one. So more people died.

Why do you think we had to lock down. To keep the infection rate above one? so more people got infected.

https://www.iol.co.za/news/politics/lockdown-has-slowed-sas-covid-19-infection-rate-46660395 (https://www.iol.co.za/news/politics/lockdown-has-slowed-sas-covid-19-infection-rate-46660395)
Since the implementation of the national lockdown on March 26, South Africa has managed to slow the number of Covid-19 infections, according to Professor Salim Abdool Karim, the chairperson of the Ministerial Advisory Committee on Covid-19.

Before the lockdown, Karim said the number of infections were increasing in line with global trajectories but this changed dramatically once the lockdown was implemented.


Remember we have 1% of the worlds population and 10% of the worlds covid 19 deaths. The government does need to answer questions. And that 10% is only the hospital deaths. The socialist communist FT says it should be double that number of deaths.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on April 27, 2020, 19:59:30 pm
I was conversing with a friend who lives in Spain the other day. He takes slight umbrage at the description of the situation in the UK as 'lockdown'. He's got a point.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Nïckslïkk2112 on April 27, 2020, 20:25:18 pm
That's because it isn't "lockdown" but everything has to be overly dramatized today.
Probably trips more easily off the tongue - and into headlines - than "Intensively applied Social Restrictions"
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Slim on April 28, 2020, 17:27:59 pm
Just a reminder not to pay too much attention to the state broadcaster you're coerced into paying for:

(http://truth.justdied.com/images/bbc_labour_28apr.png)
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: rufus the dawg on April 28, 2020, 19:50:31 pm
I see Boris likes to shake hands with muggers.

Re.- he carried on shaking hands with people even though the advice at the time was not to. He also said the virus was like a mugger, yesterday in his speach. Muggers don't kill over 20,000 people every year.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: rufus the dawg on April 28, 2020, 21:29:23 pm
Quote from: Slim on April 28, 2020, 17:27:59 pmJust a reminder not to pay too much attention to the state broadcaster you're coerced into paying for:

(http://truth.justdied.com/images/bbc_labour_28apr.png)
quoting gildo fawkes*, you are now turning to dreadful right wing satire. One of them was a union representative and said so on the show. People I know who work in hospitals are being threatened by bosses if they go to the media. 

You pricked my interest and I watched Panorama for the first time in 20 years. It was pretty damming (left wing activists or not).

Try for once arguing against the points they were/are making instead of attacking the messenger. 

*next time when quoting a right wing propaganda machine please make it clear.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Slim on April 29, 2020, 11:52:46 am
Quote from: rufus the dawg on April 28, 2020, 21:29:23 pmquoting gildo fawkes*, you are now turning to dreadful right wing satire.
This might work if the Guido Fawkes information I represented there wasn't demonstrably true. It was. Hilariously, you go on to wag your finger against "attacking the messenger", then in your next sentence, you dismiss Guido Fawkes as a "right wing propaganda machine".

You have nothing to say whatever about the spectacle of the BBC making a Party Political Broadcast on behalf of the Labour Party.

Can you see what you've done there? All you've actually done is to attack the messenger. Yes?

Thanks for a Wednesday morning laugh.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: rufus the dawg on April 29, 2020, 13:20:30 pm
Quote from: Slim on April 29, 2020, 11:52:46 amThis might work if the Guido Fawkes information I represented there wasn't demonstrably true. It was. Hilariously, you go on to wag your finger against "attacking the messenger", then in your next sentence, you dismiss Guido Fawkes as a "right wing propaganda machine".

You have nothing to say whatever about the spectacle of the BBC making a Party Political Broadcast on behalf of the Labour Party.

Can you see what you've done there? All you've actually done is to attack the messenger. Yes?

Thanks for a Wednesday morning laugh.

#whataboutery again slim. Remember i'm not the one complaining about the show you are? yes. I do not have anything to answer. So that means.....

You are not able to answer the points; And Laughing in the face of people working in the NHS without all the proper PPE and dying because of it. What a sad person you are. 

Guido Fawkes the libertarian.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: The Letter R on April 29, 2020, 13:52:30 pm
"If he fails to achieve 100k tests (NOT test capacity) a day by the end of the week, he needs to move aside. Hopefully, Boris will have the balls to do what needs to be done."

Disagree with this completely - there is no point testing people who don't have symptoms this is an absolute waste of resources - if the capacity is there to test 100k people per day great but if only 50k or 75k need to be tested each day then so be it. I would rather money be spent elsewhere in the NHS than needlessly testing people just to reach a target.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on April 29, 2020, 14:05:01 pm
I would have thought that NHS staff would need to be regularly tested as a negative result on one day does not mean they haven't caught it the next.

Transport and supermarket workers should be tested frequently too, both whether or not they are symptomatic.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on April 29, 2020, 15:12:22 pm
Quote from: The Letter R on April 29, 2020, 13:52:30 pm"If he fails to achieve 100k tests (NOT test capacity) a day by the end of the week, he needs to move aside. Hopefully, Boris will have the balls to do what needs to be done."

Disagree with this completely - there is no point testing people who don't have symptoms this is an absolute waste of resources 
People that don't have symptoms but work on the frontline in the NHS or care sector?
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Bez on April 29, 2020, 15:15:19 pm
Quote from: DavidL on April 29, 2020, 15:12:22 pmPeople that don't have symptoms but work on the frontline in the NHS or care sector?
Are you going to test them every day?
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Nïckslïkk2112 on April 29, 2020, 15:53:48 pm
So. 25,000,000 people are now entitled to COVID19 tests.
Let's assume that we do have testing capacity for 100,000 tests a day and that all tests are taken up. That's 250 days.

Now if they are not symptomatic then most of the 25,000,000 do not need testing. But that is still a lot of days and the front line NHS workers, care workers, patients and care home residents will need frequent testing. You can bet your bottom dollar that lots of people applying to be tested are not showing any symptoms whatsoever thereby denying the aforementioned tests.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on April 29, 2020, 16:35:55 pm
Quote from: Bez on April 29, 2020, 15:15:19 pmAre you going to test them every day?
I heard someone suggest weekly testing. I would suggest that those that are unable to do their jobs without being socially distant from those most vulnerable from the disease should be tested regularly. Surely that would help save lives?
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Bez on April 29, 2020, 17:54:23 pm
Quote from: DavidL on April 29, 2020, 16:35:55 pmI heard someone suggest weekly testing. I would suggest that those that are unable to do their jobs without being socially distant from those most vulnerable from the disease should be tested regularly. Surely that would help save lives?
Agree it makes sense to test them at least weekly, but logistically a nightmare...
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: zoony on April 29, 2020, 18:11:34 pm
Quote from: Bez on April 29, 2020, 17:54:23 pmAgree it makes sense to test them at least weekly, but logistically a nightmare...
If that's what has to be done to try and get back to "normal" though mate, that's what we've got to do I suppose.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Bisto on April 29, 2020, 19:29:53 pm
Quote from: Nïckslïkk2112 on April 29, 2020, 15:53:48 pmSo. 25,000,000 people are now entitled to COVID19 tests.
Let's assume that we do have testing capacity for 100,000 tests a day and that all tests are taken up. That's 250 days.

Now if they are not symptomatic then most of the 25,000,000 do not need testing. But that is still a lot of days and the front line NHS workers, care workers, patients and care home residents will need frequent testing. You can bet your bottom dollar that lots of people applying to be tested are not showing any symptoms whatsoever thereby denying the aforementioned tests.
Ok but what about the asymptomatic carriers?
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: rufus the dawg on April 29, 2020, 19:50:07 pm
Gee 26,097 deaths and Boris says that is a success. What is failure.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Nïckslïkk2112 on April 29, 2020, 20:49:52 pm
Quote from: Bisto on April 29, 2020, 19:29:53 pmOk but what about the asymptomatic carriers?
One of the criteria for getting a test is that you should be exhibiting symptoms.

You have to start with the obvious.

As a non essential worker without symptoms I'm bottom of the list. I wouldn't expect anything less.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Bisto on April 29, 2020, 23:48:13 pm
Quote from: Nïckslïkk2112 on April 29, 2020, 20:49:52 pmOne of the criteria for getting a test is that you should be exhibiting symptoms.

You have to start with the obvious.

As a non essential worker without symptoms I'm bottom of the list. I wouldn't expect anything less.
Don't know if I imagined this but I think I saw a figure of 10% of the total infected will be asymptomatic carriers, so if not everyone is tested then this is going to roll on and on...and of course, even with a working vaccine, we still won't know if the covid19 will be a flu like mutating virus that changes every season.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Slim on April 30, 2020, 00:09:57 am
Quote from: rufus the dawg on April 29, 2020, 13:20:30 pm#whataboutery again slim. Remember i'm not the one complaining about the show you are? yes. I do not have anything to answer. So that means.....

You are not able to answer the points; And Laughing in the face of people working in the NHS without all the proper PPE and dying because of it. What a sad person you are.

Guido Fawkes the libertarian.

Rufus, shall I explain that one for you again? I'm a patient man as you've seen many times already.

I showed that the BBC made what genuinely amounts to a party political broadcast on behalf of the Labour Party. The only points of view provided, in order to attack the government, were those provided by Labour activists.

You see - or perhaps you don't, but anyway - the BBC has a duty to impartiality - partly because of the way that it's funded. It clearly failed in that regard rather miserably, and that's the point.

You then, frankly hilariously, went on to criticise me for "attacking the messenger", but you had exactly nothing to say in rebuttal, except to attack the messenger.



As for your drivel about "laughing in the face of people working in the NHS", please do be assured the only person who's face I'm laughing in, by your own invitation, is yours.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Slim on April 30, 2020, 00:22:18 am
Quote from: Bisto on April 29, 2020, 23:48:13 pmDon't know if I imagined this but I think I saw a figure of 10% of the total infected will be asymptomatic carriers, so if not everyone is tested then this is going to roll on and on...and of course, even with a working vaccine, we still won't know if the covid19 will be a flu like mutating virus that changes every season.

I was listening to a conversation about the potential resumption of football earlier, in which one or two of the participants were talking about a vaccine being "at least 18 months away" as if it were just a matter of time. But I wonder if there'll ever be one.

Granted HIV is not the same, but apparently we spend about £1 billion a year on managing that and 30-odd years later, there's still no vaccine for that one. I do have a nagging worry in the back of my mind that normal life may simply never completely return.

Anyway in the meantime - today's hospital death figure is at least consistent with a downward trend seen over the last couple of weeks.

(http://truth.justdied.com/images/chart200423.png)


Quite a nice piece in the Evening Standard about the ambitious testing goal, and I echo the sentiment herein. Well done, Mr Hancock and I'd also add: thank-you.


https://www.standard.co.uk/comment/comment/evening-standard-comment-testing-target-forces-the-pace-at-last-in-virus-fight-a4427201.html
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on April 30, 2020, 01:13:02 am
I'm afraid I've gone beyond having any trust in the figures emanating from the government regarding tests completed.
The article mentions the app that has been developed to help with tracing. I could be wrong (as always) but I can't see this being downloaded by anywhere near the 60% of the population that would be required for it to be effective. Too 'big brother' IMO. However, my cynicism does not extend to denying the success of the government's primary aim of ensuring the NHS was not overwhelmed.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Bez on April 30, 2020, 11:28:53 am
It seems that with yesterday's addition of care home & community deaths that we're now 3rd in the global league table of total deaths attributed to COVID-19 behind the USA & Italy. I have no doubt that China will be way above us in reality.

A failure by any measure. >:(
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on April 30, 2020, 12:43:24 pm
Quote from: Bez on April 30, 2020, 11:28:53 amIt seems that with yesterday's addition of care home & community deaths that we're now 3rd in the global league table of total deaths attributed to COVID-19 behind the USA & Italy. I have no doubt that China will be way above us in reality.

A failure by any measure. >:(
It's a bit early to definitively decide how we've fared (we are unsure of the reporting methods used by other nations) but it doesn't look like the outcome will indicate a good response, especially since we 'war-gamed' such a scenario in 2016.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: pdw1 on April 30, 2020, 12:48:52 pm
Quote from: Bez on April 30, 2020, 11:28:53 amIt seems that with yesterday's addition of care home & community deaths that we're now 3rd in the global league table of total deaths attributed to COVID-19 behind the USA & Italy. I have no doubt that China will be way above us in reality.

A failure by any measure. >:(

I am not sure what official data is coming out of South America but things look terrible in Brazil and Ecuador
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/30/brazil-manaus-coronavirus-mass-graves


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/03/theyre-leaving-us-to-die-ecuadorians-plead-for-help-as-virus-blazes-deadly-trail
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: The Letter R on April 30, 2020, 16:16:01 pm
Kind of blows the theory that it will go away in the Summer in the UK as it will be too warm for it..........
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Bisto on April 30, 2020, 18:25:56 pm
Quote from: The Letter R on April 30, 2020, 16:16:01 pmKind of blows the theory that it will go away in the Summer in the UK as it will be too warm for it..........
And there are too many other unknowns;

When/if a working vaccine can be produced?

Even if it can be, how many people will refuse to have it? (Which in itself will have many other implications and potentially serious consequences)

Of those that aren't tested, how many will be asymptomatic carriers?
 
How many people will be allowed to enter the country without being tested?

How will immigrant community leaders ensure compliance?

How will illegal immigrants impact the containment/spread of the virus?

Will the virus become a mutating, flu like, seasonal phenomenon?

Even if it doesn't mutate will the prior infection and recovery protect those people from being infected by the same strain again?

And more fundamentally, will we ever know exactly how many people are dieing  directly/exclusively as a consequence of contracting the "novel Corona virus/Covid-19 virus?
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Nïckslïkk2112 on April 30, 2020, 18:45:19 pm
Quote from: Bisto on April 30, 2020, 18:25:56 pmAnd more fundamentally, will we ever know exactly how many people are dieing  directly/exclusively as a consequence of contracting the "novel Corona virus/Covid-19 virus?
No.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on April 30, 2020, 19:15:59 pm
Quote from: Bisto on April 30, 2020, 18:25:56 pmHow will illegal immigrants impact the containment/spread of the virus?

In a sane world, not at all as they would be identified as being in the country illegally and immediately sent back to where they came from. Ah, but............ ::) >:(
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: zoony on May 01, 2020, 13:23:31 pm
Apparently Trump is now claiming that he has evidence that coronavirus originated in a Wuhan laboratory.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on May 01, 2020, 14:11:09 pm
Quote from: zoony on May 01, 2020, 13:23:31 pmApparently Trump is now claiming that he has evidence that coronavirus originated in a Wuhan laboratory.
Is that the same one where they make bleach ? ;)
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on May 01, 2020, 15:14:54 pm
Quote from: zoony on May 01, 2020, 13:23:31 pmApparently Trump is now claiming that he has evidence that coronavirus originated in a Wuhan laboratory.

I always thought that was more likely than the market theory. I also assumed we'd never know for sure.
Could be fake news  ;D
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Slim on May 01, 2020, 15:17:24 pm
As you may have heard the government has changed the way it's reporting deaths now, to include verified COVID-19 deaths in all settings. Which is a good thing on the whole, but makes the spreadsheet I was keeping a bit redundant.

But historic figures reported on the same basis have been made available, and I've extracted the relevant information into a new spreadsheet; the data smoothed using a 7-day average again looks like this:

(http://truth.justdied.com/images/200501chart.png)

Of course it's still all pretty vague in some respects. We can't know how many of the people represented here were actually killed by the virus or were just tested positive for it when they died. Similarly we don't know how many people have been killed by the virus without having been tested for it.

But the trend shown above is clear enough.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Slim on May 01, 2020, 15:21:39 pm
Quote from: DavidL on May 01, 2020, 15:14:54 pmI always thought that was more likely than the market theory. I also assumed we'd never know for sure.
Could be fake news  ;D

I did read a piece by a scientist from one of the relevant disciplines - a virologist probably - who had done some analysis on the virus and said that it was unlikely to have been made in a lab. I'm not particular impressed by Trump's point of view. At this stage I'm probably only slightly less likely to take Keir Starmer at his word on something than the orange twat in the White House.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on May 01, 2020, 15:25:07 pm
Quote from: Slim on May 01, 2020, 15:17:24 pmAs you may have heard the government has changed the way it's reporting deaths now, to include verified COVID-19 deaths in all settings. Which is a good thing on the whole, but makes the spreadsheet I was keeping a bit redundant.

But historic figures reported on the same basis have been made available, and I've extracted the relevant information into a new spreadsheet; the data smoothed using a 7-day average again looks like this:

(http://truth.justdied.com/images/200501chart.png)

Of course it's still all pretty vague in some respects. We can't know how many of the people represented here were actually killed by the virus or were just tested positive for it when they died. Similarly we don't know how many people have been killed by the virus without having been tested for it.

But the trend shown above is clear enough.
A sad fact is that, even if the virus was involved, many were killed by obesity.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Nïckslïkk2112 on May 01, 2020, 18:31:22 pm
Quote from: DavidL on May 01, 2020, 15:25:07 pmA sad fact is that, even if the virus was involved, many were killed by obesity.
Yeah, but it's their right to be obese innit. You don't want to be accused of "Fat Shaming". I don't mind though...

Anyhoo, they've only gone and - allegedly - hit their testing target!

But now the cock Hancock says that fertility services can be restored. NO, IT IS NOT IMPORTANT, IF YOU'RE BARREN YOU'RE BARREN DEAL WITH IT. And if you want to adopt, then I've got a ready packed 21 year old you can have.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on May 01, 2020, 19:42:30 pm
Quote from: Nïckslïkk2112 on May 01, 2020, 18:31:22 pmAnyhoo, they've only gone and - allegedly - hit their testing target!
Of course they have  ::)
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: rufus the dawg on May 02, 2020, 03:23:18 am
Quote from: DavidL on April 30, 2020, 19:15:59 pmIn a sane world, not at all as they would be identified as being in the country illegally and immediately sent back to where they came from. Ah, but............ ::) >:(
Because we need their nimble hands to pick fruit and veg?
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: rufus the dawg on May 02, 2020, 03:28:02 am
Quote from: DavidL on May 01, 2020, 15:25:07 pmA sad fact is that, even if the virus was involved, many were killed by obesity.
and genes and pollution and not been fat and letting it in the country and not testing and not have enough ppe and not being prepared and not closing down the airports and not locking down fast enough.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: rufus the dawg on May 02, 2020, 03:31:45 am
Quote from: Slim on April 30, 2020, 00:09:57 amRufus, shall I explain that one for you again? I'm a patient man as you've seen many times already.

I showed that the BBC made what genuinely amounts to a party political broadcast on behalf of the Labour Party. The only points of view provided, in order to attack the government, were those provided by Labour activists.

You see - or perhaps you don't, but anyway - the BBC has a duty to impartiality - partly because of the way that it's funded. It clearly failed in that regard rather miserably, and that's the point.

You then, frankly hilariously, went on to criticise me for "attacking the messenger", but you had exactly nothing to say in rebuttal, except to attack the messenger.



As for your drivel about "laughing in the face of people working in the NHS", please do be assured the only person who's face I'm laughing in, by your own invitation, is yours.
Please answer the points that panorama make.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on May 02, 2020, 09:45:34 am
Quote from: rufus the dawg on May 02, 2020, 03:28:02 amand genes and pollution and not been fat and letting it in the country and not testing and not have enough ppe and not being prepared and not closing down the airports and not locking down fast enough.
Some of those are indeed also relevant, well done  ;)
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: pdw1 on May 02, 2020, 10:28:56 am
Quote from: DavidL on May 01, 2020, 15:25:07 pmA sad fact is that, even if the virus was involved, many were killed by obesity.

Quote from: rufus the dawg on May 02, 2020, 03:28:02 amand genes and pollution and not been fat and letting it in the country and not testing and not have enough ppe and not being prepared and not closing down the airports and not locking down fast enough.

Which is why the excess deaths figure is one of the key measures and that is running at well over 200%.  The virus is causing a huge number of deaths.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: pdw1 on May 02, 2020, 10:32:47 am
This is the chart that is so scarry
(https://fullfact.org/media/uploads/UK_spike_chart.png)

from here
https://fullfact.org/health/covid-deaths/
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: rufus the dawg on May 02, 2020, 19:52:01 pm
28,131 deaths so far.

20,000 was meant to be a good result. Which quite obviously is not a good result.

Government ministers keep saying "unprecedented" as if they want to say "unpredicted" The pandemic was both predictable predicated. That is why there was a 2016 exercise.


-One former senior government source said: "There has been a reluctance to put Cygnus out in the public domain because frankly it would terrify people.

"It's right to say that the NHS was stretched beyond breaking point [by Cygnus]. People might say we have blood on our hands but the fact is that it's always easier to manage the last outbreak than the one coming down the track. Hindsight is a beautiful thing."
More than 1,000 organisations took part in the 2016 exercise, with NHS trusts, the military and doctors' associations asked to show how they would cope with a major influenza outbreak.
The report, which used modelling by the same Imperial College London team whose work is being used to track the Covid-19 outbreak, is said to have found significant gaps in the NHS's "surge capacity", while mortuaries were rapidly overwhelmed because of a lack of doctors able to certify causes of death.


But hey Boris just had a bady so who the feck cares. Maybe he should buy a trailor to live in and leave trash outside his door. But that would be an insult to people who live in trailors.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on May 02, 2020, 21:00:21 pm
Yes, Rufus, I tend to agree. The government's management of the crisis is looking increasingly poor by most measures. However, we know that the government have a different way of measuring things to most people.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Nïckslïkk2112 on May 02, 2020, 21:45:22 pm
Quote from: rufus the dawg on May 02, 2020, 19:52:01 pm28,131 deaths so far.

20,000 was meant to be a good result. Which quite obviously is not a good result.

Government ministers keep saying "unprecedented" as if they want to say "unpredicted" The pandemic was both predictable predicated. That is why there was a 2016 exercise.


-One former senior government source said: "There has been a reluctance to put Cygnus out in the public domain because frankly it would terrify people.

"It's right to say that the NHS was stretched beyond breaking point [by Cygnus]. People might say we have blood on our hands but the fact is that it's always easier to manage the last outbreak than the one coming down the track. Hindsight is a beautiful thing."
More than 1,000 organisations took part in the 2016 exercise, with NHS trusts, the military and doctors' associations asked to show how they would cope with a major influenza outbreak.
The report, which used modelling by the same Imperial College London team whose work is being used to track the Covid-19 outbreak, is said to have found significant gaps in the NHS's "surge capacity", while mortuaries were rapidly overwhelmed because of a lack of doctors able to certify causes of death.


But hey Boris just had a bady so who the feck cares. Maybe he should buy a trailor to live in and leave trash outside his door. But that would be an insult to people who live in trailors.
But hey, the NHS actually hasn't been overwhelmed :)

And nobody, but nobody has ever lived in a trailor. Apart maybe for some human trash in, oh, probably some godforsaken scumhole like Wales. Except then it would probably be a Trailwr.

And hey, someday, something will come along which will overwhelm the NHS, something which nobody can do anything about. Hopefully not until I've lived to 100 though. The shit can then hit the fan - not you Eric!
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: rufus the dawg on May 03, 2020, 01:10:04 am
the NHS has not been overwhelmed because the cleared whole wards and stopped routine operations and treating cancer patience.  And people stopped turning up to A&E because they are/were scared of catching Covid 19. How do I know?  I have two members of family working in hospitals.

Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Nïckslïkk2112 on May 03, 2020, 11:26:41 am
Quote from: rufus the dawg on May 03, 2020, 01:10:04 amthe NHS has not been overwhelmed because the cleared whole wards and stopped routine operations and treating cancer patience.  And people stopped turning up to A&E because they are/were scared of catching Covid 19. How do I know?  I have two members of family working in hospitals.


Well, that shows good planning.

It probably also shows that most people who go to A&E are malingerers who could easily take out a splinter at  home. How do I know? Mrs S has spent plenty of time over the last few years taking her Mum and Auntie to A&E And I used to work with a bloke who took his kids to A&E if they got a splinter.

How can you tell a bad Doctor? He's got no patients.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: rufus the dawg on May 03, 2020, 11:34:14 am
No that is not correct though nick is it.

Not doing routine surgery is bad. Not treating cancer is bad. Staying away from A&E because you might catch Covid 19 is bad, staying away because you have had a stroke or heart attack is bad.

So you used to work with a bloke who took his kids? Mrs S went to A&E and malingered?  ok. better close A&E Job done.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Nïckslïkk2112 on May 03, 2020, 15:55:39 pm
Quote from: rufus the dawg on May 03, 2020, 11:34:14 amNo that is not correct though nick is it.

Not doing routine surgery is bad. Not treating cancer is bad. Staying away from A&E because you might catch Covid 19 is bad, staying away because you have had a stroke or heart attack is bad.

So you used to work with a bloke who took his kids? Mrs S went to A&E and malingered?  ok. better close A&E Job done.
I've said this before, but your powers of comprehension are woefully inadequate. Now go get your owner to take you for a piss up a lamp post.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: rufus the dawg on May 03, 2020, 20:24:15 pm
Quote from: Nïckslïkk2112 on May 03, 2020, 15:55:39 pmI've said this before, but your powers of comprehension are woefully inadequate. Now go get your owner to take you for a piss up a lamp post.
Quote from: Nïckslïkk2112 on May 03, 2020, 11:26:41 amHow can you tell a bad Doctor? He's got no patients.
Shocking news- Harley street Drs out of work because they have no patients. Apparently they are to good!
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: The Old Dog on May 03, 2020, 20:52:30 pm
Quote from: Nïckslïkk2112 on May 03, 2020, 11:26:41 amWell, that shows good planning.

It probably also shows that most people who go to A&E are malingerers who could easily take out a splinter at  home.


True, but like it or not that's what it's there for ,if it wasn't I wouldn't be here now ..
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Nïckslïkk2112 on May 03, 2020, 21:26:59 pm
Quote from: rufus the dawg on May 03, 2020, 20:24:15 pmShocking news- Harley street Drs out of work because they have no patients. Apparently they are to good!
Go back and look at how you spelt "Cancer Patients" It's a homonymous thing.

Anyhoo, shock horror, testing rates  have fallen today. Errrr, it's Sunday. Day of rest. And the postal service isn't working...
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: rufus the dawg on May 04, 2020, 10:43:50 am
Quote from: Nïckslïkk2112 on May 03, 2020, 21:26:59 pmGo back and look at how you spelt "Cancer Patients" It's a homonymous thing.

Anyhoo, shock horror, testing rates  have fallen today. Errrr, it's Sunday. Day of rest. And the postal service isn't working...
- affecting the same part of the visual field of each eye right homonymous hemianopia?

Please remember I am very dyslexic. I often put posts up with just using a spell checker and sometimes not fully checking. And Nick I don't mind you you pointing out words that I miss spelt or such like. It helps my mind organise the way to get around the problem. Whilst I see you are trying to use my problem of dyslexia as a criticism of me and my thinking I don't particularly care. I left that particular play ground years ago and see your pedantry more like an opportunity. Remember though, attacking the messenger instead of answering the points made are standard play ground games that I am not particularly bothered with. I am still waiting for slim to answer the arguments put forward by the Panorama program from last week. He made a big spectacle of not answering, but everyone will have noticed that he has not answered the points made by the show.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Slim on May 04, 2020, 10:55:31 am
Quote from: rufus the dawg on May 02, 2020, 19:52:01 pm28,131 deaths so far.

20,000 was meant to be a good result. Which quite obviously is not a good result.

Government ministers keep saying "unprecedented" as if they want to say "unpredicted" The pandemic was both predictable predicated. That is why there was a 2016 exercise.

Ridiculous comment.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Slim on May 04, 2020, 11:01:26 am
Quote from: rufus the dawg on May 04, 2020, 10:43:50 amRemember though, attacking the messenger instead of answering the points made are standard play ground games that I am not particularly bothered with. I am still waiting for slim to answer the arguments put forward by the Panorama program from last week. He made a big spectacle of not answering, but everyone will have noticed that he has not answered the points made by the show.

If you're not bothered with it, why do you do it? I haven't even watched that programme. The only point I made was that the BBC's Panorama had become a simple mouthpiece for Labour activists, and the facts of the matter, which I recorded here, established that.

Since your only response to this so far has been the standard playground game, as you describe it, of attacking the messenger, I won't bother to wait for you to answer this point. And to be fair, nor would I be interested in whatever nonsense you might type in the very unlikely event that you attempted to.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Nïckslïkk2112 on May 04, 2020, 11:17:30 am
Quote from: rufus the dawg on May 04, 2020, 10:43:50 am- affecting the same part of the visual field of each eye right homonymous hemianopia?

Please remember I am very dyslexic. I often put posts up with just using a spell checker and sometimes not fully checking. And Nick I don't mind you you pointing out words that I miss spelt or such like. It helps my mind organise the way to get around the problem. Whilst I see you are trying to use my problem of dyslexia as a criticism of me and my thinking I don't particularly care. I left that particular play ground years ago and see your pedantry more like an opportunity. Remember though, attacking the messenger instead of answering the points made are standard play ground games that I am not particularly bothered with. I am still waiting for slim to answer the arguments put forward by the Panorama program from last week. He made a big spectacle of not answering, but everyone will have noticed that he has not answered the points made by the show.
But you're obviously NOT very dyslexic. Just careless. I am NOT trying to use your problem of dyslexia. 
And on this subject I AM - for once - answering your posts. All you do is be a negative-ninny, yet to anyone with a modicum of sense you can see why mistakes have happened in the COVID19 situation. If something like this were to arise again, and it will, you can bet your bottom dollar that the same or similar mistakes will be made. Even the German's won't get an A* on their COVID response A level.

And I will never use any of my problems as an excuse for what I say or how I say it. So there. Yah-Boo-Sucks with knobs on.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Slim on May 04, 2020, 11:25:15 am
This is a graph of the moving average data, plotted in blue, with an extrapolation (in red) of the trend. It's roughly linear and if the current trend were to continue we'd be looking at an average reported daily death figure down into double figures by the end of the month.

(http://truth.justdied.com/images/200504chart.png)

Significant changes to the lockdown restrictions, or to tolerance of them, could potentially change that figure, I guess.

Heard a healthcare academic interviewed on 5 Live the other day - I forget who or what she was exactly, but she opined that a second spike was very likely once we come out of the restrictions. The trick, as she saw it, is to minimise it.

Brilliant leadership from Matt Hancock and his team on ramping up the testing. I would say that he should have said specifically how the 122,000 number had been achieved at his press conference on Friday. You can argue that he didn't achieve 100,000 tests on a single day if you like, but ultimately that's an arbitrary number and what he has achieved, on its own terms, is remarkable. And if the number went down over the weekend, I cannot imagine that that's due to a failure of diligence or effort, just the huge demands of the logistics.

I can't really buy the suggestion made by some commentators that he's tried to mislead people, given that the exact breakdown of the figures was published on the government's own site.

Again - there are heroes and villians in every crisis, as in every World Cup. And I do think that people will remember those with nothing to offer except for mean-spirited and baseless sniping from the sidelines at a government that is busting a gut and showing remarkable leadership to help its people.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Slim on May 04, 2020, 11:31:00 am
Quote from: Nïckslïkk2112 on May 04, 2020, 11:17:30 amEven the German's won't get an A* on their COVID response A level.

Very true, even the Grauniad published a piece showing German healthcare workers taking part in a naked protest over a lack of PPE. They do things a bit differently over there.

Can't really blame the German government though, this is an unprecedented and utterly unpredictable situation.

I've just read that the French had a naked protest about this as well. Possibly a bit of insight as to one of the cultural reasons that we're not in the EU now.

https://nypost.com/2020/04/28/german-french-healthcare-workers-pose-nude-to-protest-ppe-shortages/
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Bisto on May 04, 2020, 12:17:21 pm
Quote from: Slim on May 04, 2020, 11:31:00 amVery true, even the Grauniad published a piece showing German healthcare workers taking part in a naked protest over a lack of PPE. They do things a bit differently over there.

I've just read that the French had a naked protest about this as well. Possibly a bit of insight as to one of the cultural reasons that we're not in the EU now.

https://nypost.com/2020/04/28/german-french-healthcare-workers-pose-nude-to-protest-ppe-shortages/

What a load of absolute bollocks...as it were...look at the cultural make up of the NHS workers, hardly a homogenous British culture is it?! So what are you going to say if there's a similar protest here? 

Just what is it that youre actually trying to say or infer? You don't like the German or the French culture/people because a few desperate medical staff tried to highlight the danger they are being placed in through the lack of adequate PPE? Or that a lot of people who voted for Brexit don't like them ? Which would imply you (think that some of the reason people) voted for Brexit (was) because of cultural xenophobia

How many logical fallacies have you used?
What a manipulative person you are!
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on May 04, 2020, 20:16:20 pm
Something to restore your faith in the Beeb Slim. Sounds a little too sychophantic for my tastes tbh...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m000hyt1/our-finest-hours-series-1-episode-1
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: pdw1 on May 04, 2020, 21:47:15 pm
(https://i.postimg.cc/fWjsSsyj/IMG-7228.jpg)
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: zoony on May 04, 2020, 22:16:20 pm
Most of the Nightingale hospitals that were built are now largely unused, but that's not a bad thing, at least they are there, and there would have been a lot of criticism if they hadn't have been built though. Must admit that I do find it puzzling when they bang on about the deaths and cases of Covid-19 coming down though, they're bound to because we're not allowed to live our lives normally! At the end of the day, the virus is still out there, and until they have a vaccine, I'm not going to be fully happy and at ease again.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Bisto on May 04, 2020, 23:45:39 pm
Quote from: zoony on May 04, 2020, 22:16:20 pmMost of the Nightingale hospitals that were built are now largely unused, but that's not a bad thing, at least they are there, and there would have been a lot of criticism if they hadn't have been built though. Must admit that I do find it puzzling when they bang on about the deaths and cases of Covid-19 coming down though, they're bound to because we're not allowed to live our lives normally! At the end of the day, the virus is still out there, and until they have a vaccine, I'm not going to be fully happy and at ease again.
No way are they going to force me to have a vaccine.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Bisto on May 05, 2020, 11:13:44 am
https


://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=3534003866626543&id=100000508927990

This is a really helpful, detailed series of Covid-19 charts by nation including seasonal excess deaths

For some reason (that I probably should know about but don't) every time I try and link a Facebook post it comes up with
FORBIDDEN
404 ERROR

so I've separated the Https from the rest of the link address all you have to do is join them together and paste it in a browser 
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Nïckslïkk2112 on May 05, 2020, 11:55:39 am
Seems as if the French had their first COVID19 death back in December - not having a go at the Frogs (for once) - and I suspect that will be the case over here too.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-52526554

Mrs S has said all the way through the outbreak that it will have been here longer than people thought. OK, so she isn't a virologist or epidemiologist, but she does have a Biology A level and works as a receptionist at a school, where she is also a first aider. They do have a substantial number of pupils of Chinese origin and absenteeism was high there either side of Xmas...
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: zoony on May 05, 2020, 13:37:20 pm
Quote from: Bisto on May 04, 2020, 23:45:39 pmNo way are they going to force me to have a vaccine.
I've never had a flu jab, but I would definitely have one for covid-19 though.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on May 05, 2020, 14:05:44 pm
Quote from: zoony on May 05, 2020, 13:37:20 pmI've never had a flu jab, but I would definitely have one for covid-19 though.
I take immunosuppressants and also work with at risk groups so do usually have the flu jab.  I'll take the covid one when it comes too but may wait a while for that one!
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Matt2112 on May 05, 2020, 14:37:38 pm
Quote from: Bisto on May 04, 2020, 23:45:39 pmNo way are they going to force me to have a vaccine.
Didn't have you down as an anti-vaxxer...  :o
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Slim on May 05, 2020, 16:04:15 pm
I doubt anyone will be forced, but I guess we are in unprecedented times. Who knows? There is a strong possibility that it will be less carefully and extensively trialled than would be usual, simply due to the devastation the virus has caused to the world's various economies, and more importantly the ongoing lethal hazard it represents to more vulnerable people.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: The Letter R on May 05, 2020, 18:14:16 pm
Rather than a flu jab just take vitamin D supplements over the winter.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Matt2112 on May 05, 2020, 23:59:28 pm
Apparently Vue cinemas are eyeing a re-opening date of Friday July 17th - the scheduled release date of Christopher Nolan's Tenet.

I'd love that to happen.

Surprisingly, Vue currently see no requirement to lay off any employees whatsoever such is the strength of its financial position.

Nice to see these slivers of good news - I'll take anything at the moment.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on May 06, 2020, 08:21:36 am
It's clear now that the government has been advised by at least one 'expert' with very poor judgement . I'd have thought that someone, supposedly' blessed with intelligence would have opted for a session of masturbation with his married lover via Zoom😁 Dumb ass.
God help us 😡
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: captainkurtz on May 06, 2020, 08:58:06 am
Quote from: DavidL on May 06, 2020, 08:21:36 amIt's clear now that the government has been advised by at least one 'expert' with very poor judgement . I'd have thought that someone, supposedly' blessed with intelligence would have opted for a session of masturbation with his married lover via Zoom😁 Dumb ass.
God help us 😡
Beggars belief, doesn't it?  I mean, how fecking thick?  

Where the feck is Boris?  Cometh the hour and all that.  Like he gives 2 shits about his new baby....
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Slim on May 06, 2020, 14:33:46 pm
Quote from: DavidL on May 06, 2020, 08:21:36 amIt's clear now that the government has been advised by at least one 'expert' with very poor judgement . I'd have thought that someone, supposedly' blessed with intelligence would have opted for a session of masturbation with his married lover via Zoom😁 Dumb ass.
God help us 😡
It's appalling behaviour, but if you're hoping to prove the point that his actual advice was suspect, irrespective of his personal judgement in following it or not - please feel free to make a start.

Meanwhile the usual suspects have been stirring the pot over the UK death figures supposedly being the highest in Europe now, ignoring factors like population density, cultural issues, compliance with the measures, the way the numbers are reported and even basic population numbers.

All of which is undermined somewhat by this:


(http://truth.justdied.com/images/italyfigures.png)


.. but the BBC and fellow travellers are giving it their best shot anyway.

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-health-coronavirus-italy-mortality-idUKKBN22G1XB
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on May 06, 2020, 15:06:58 pm
Quote from: Slim on May 06, 2020, 14:33:46 pmIt's appalling behaviour, but if you're hoping to prove the point that his actual advice was suspect, irrespective of his personal judgement in following it or not - please feel free to make a start.

I'm sure one part of his impressive brain is dedicated to his professional life and another to his pleasure and so he never mixes the two.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on May 06, 2020, 16:10:12 pm
It will be a long while before we now the true Worldwide toll of this epidemic.  I predict though that there won't be too many praising Johnson and his team when the dust has settled
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on May 06, 2020, 17:12:20 pm
Quote from: döm on May 06, 2020, 16:10:12 pmIt will be a long while before we now the true Worldwide toll of this epidemic.  I predict though that there won't be too many praising Johnson and his team when the dust has settled
Gut feeling? You're probably right
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Matt2112 on May 06, 2020, 23:32:38 pm
Heard on Talk Radio today that out of the total deaths of 30,000, under-45s account for fewer than four hundred.

Finding that one difficult to process tbh.  :(
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on May 07, 2020, 08:13:47 am
I'd have thought it would be a good idea for the government to achieve their first (second?) testing target before setting a new one (?)
Spin,spin,spin #takethemforfools
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Bez on May 07, 2020, 08:28:58 am
Quote from: Slim on May 06, 2020, 14:33:46 pmIt's appalling behaviour, but if you're hoping to prove the point that his actual advice was suspect, irrespective of his personal judgement in following it or not - please feel free to make a start.

Meanwhile the usual suspects have been stirring the pot over the UK death figures supposedly being the highest in Europe now, ignoring factors like population density, cultural issues, compliance with the measures, the way the numbers are reported and even basic population numbers.

All of which is undermined somewhat by this:


(http://truth.justdied.com/images/italyfigures.png)


.. but the BBC and fellow travellers are giving it their best shot anyway.

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-health-coronavirus-italy-mortality-idUKKBN22G1XB
It really doesn't matter to me whther we're first, second or 14th in the European "death race". The fact that over 30,000 people in the Uk have now lost their lives is a damning indictment on the government's handling of the issue.

Our "lockdown" isn't as strict as those from Italy & Spain and as a direct consequence we've caught and overtaken them in terms of total number of deaths and death rates since the first recorded death. It was far too late.

Our testing "regime" has been exposed for the inadequate mess that it is  - Germany have tested far more widley and contact tracked people with the virus and their death rate is significantly lower than ours.

Matt Hancock's target of 100,000 tests a day has been exposed for the way that the government manipulated the figures (counting DIY tests that were sent out, but not necessarily used) and the target has now been missed for 4 days in a row as they can't count these again.

The "tracking app" that's on trial on the IoW uses Bluetooth as a contact mechanism. Bluetooth can't distinguish between 2 metres or 15 metres, so there will be a number of false positives. Its also unclear how long the Bluetooth contact has to be to trigger a "hit."  The UK have chosen not to use the same App as the rest of Europe, so this will mean that any "COVID passport" won't be valid. I can also see a scenario where an app user states that they've got symptoms "for a laugh" Not sure how any app will get round this...

The list goes on....
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on May 07, 2020, 10:19:29 am
Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear! The PPE that was purchased from Turkey at great expense is useless because it does not meet our safety standards. 
At least, under distance selling regulations it can be returned for a refund! I sincerely hope our government will be giving Turkey a poor feedback score.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Matt2112 on May 07, 2020, 10:54:54 am
Quote from: DavidL on May 07, 2020, 10:19:29 amOh dear, oh dear, oh dear! The PPE that was purchased from Turkey at great expense is useless because it does not meet our safety standards.
At least, under distance selling regulations it can be returned for a refund! I sincerely hope our government will be giving Turkey a poor feedback score.
Shambolic and exasperating of course - but it must be borne in mind that the procurement of this equipment was contracted out to a third party, so I think purely on that basis we shouldn't be too quick to point the finger at central Government.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on May 07, 2020, 11:33:05 am
Quote from: Matt2112 on May 07, 2020, 10:54:54 amShambolic and exasperating of course - but it must be borne in mind that the procurement of this equipment was contracted out to a third party, so I think purely on that basis we shouldn't be too quick to point the finger at central Government.
Is that right? I'm surprised then that that MOD transport was required.  You're right, it's a bit early to make judgements but a penny to a pinch of s**t, I can guess where the fault lies.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on May 07, 2020, 13:35:08 pm
Good article here suggesting that Government takes as much interest in flattening the criticism as the curve...

https://www.politics.co.uk/comment-analysis/2020/05/06/closing-down-criticism-no-10-s-campaign-to-silence-the-outra
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Nïckslïkk2112 on May 07, 2020, 15:28:07 pm
Quote from: döm on May 07, 2020, 13:35:08 pmGood article here suggesting that Government takes as much interest in flattening the criticism as the curve...

https://www.politics.co.uk/comment-analysis/2020/05/06/closing-down-criticism-no-10-s-campaign-to-silence-the-outra
I'm not saying that there are valid points, but what Government would come out and say "We've made lots of careless mistakes and we just aren't doing enough because we don't give a Rat's arse"?

This is all just typical of today's black and white attitudes, that is, if you don't 100% agree with me then you are wrong.

Quote from: undefinedUltimately we will hear any number of distractions, distortions and dead cats to cover up a single question: why a rich country gifted with time and resources became completely overwhelmed when so many of its counterparts did not.
At what point have we been completely overwhelmed? Perhaps it was when all the Nightingale hospitals started turning patients away.

QuoteJonathan Lie is a great unknown from the pro-EU think tank British Influence which nobody has ever heard of and a narcissistic political writer and commentator. You can follow him on Twitter if you have five brain cells and the attention span of a gnat*

* In the interests if fairness, this applies to folowing anybody on Twitter. If we could rid society of the scourge of social media at the same time as COVID19, then the world would be a much better place (Unless you all join my KICKEDINTHEFACEBOOK, then one with the Big Red DISLIKE button
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on May 07, 2020, 16:09:32 pm
Yes I imagine all Governments are playing the same game regardless of hue and period. It's a worthwhile reminder though that we shouldn't lap up everything we hear from 10 Downing St and the vital role that journalists perform. Even if we don't agree with them or particularly like what they say.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Nïckslïkk2112 on May 07, 2020, 20:25:17 pm
Believe no one. Trust no one. Apart from me. I know I'm right. Even when I'm deliberately being wrong.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on May 09, 2020, 00:37:48 am
For some reason this made me chuckle. 'Sir Thumbs Up' pronounces on Covid-19:

..... Paul McCartney also called for an end to "medieval" wet markets in China.

"I really hope that this will mean the Chinese government says, 'OK guys, we have really got to get super hygienic around here.' Let's face it, it is a little bit medieval eating bats," said Sir Paul.  "It seems like Sars, avian flu, all sorts of other stuff that has afflicted us... and what's it for? For these quite medieval practices. They need to clean up their act. This may lead to [change]. If this doesn't, I don't know what will."

Stay indoors, eat tofu, stay safe. Peace man.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Matt2112 on May 09, 2020, 01:37:04 am
He's probably a lot nearer the mark than the clowns involved in advocating for the claims in 'Plandemic'. :)
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Bisto on May 09, 2020, 09:30:08 am
Quote from: Matt2112 on May 09, 2020, 01:37:04 amHe's probably a lot nearer the mark than the clowns involved in advocating for the claims in 'Plandemic'. :)
"Probably" ?! I hope you applied Occam's Razor before pronouncing that?
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on May 09, 2020, 10:01:41 am
Perhaps the miserly, meat-fearing minstrel can form a pop star based government advisory group with   star-gazing, frizz-top luthier, May?
Couldn't be less effective than SAGE, could they?
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Matt2112 on May 09, 2020, 11:30:08 am
Quote from: Bisto on May 09, 2020, 09:30:08 am"Probably" ?! I hope you applied Occam's Razor before pronouncing that?
Well, clearly.

"Virus spreads through grossly unhygienic practices"

vs

"It was created and chemically precisely refined so sinister government and pharmaceutical forces could tank an economy they actually depend on, and convince everyone they need implanting with microchips. Or something"
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Bisto on May 09, 2020, 12:22:37 pm
Quote from: Matt2112 on May 09, 2020, 11:30:08 amWell, clearly.

"Virus spreads through grossly unhygienic practices"

vs

"It was created and chemically precisely refined so sinister government and pharmaceutical forces could tank an economy they actually depend on, and convince everyone they need implanting with microchips. Or something"
Yes, much like David Icke you have to take the good with the bad and find the useful and interesting info that challenges the prevailing, controlling, disabling, economy wrecking, Project Fear narrative ...which doesn't tend to come from within mainstream sources very often unfortunately.

There's too much supposed government incompetence going on, too many false positives, fake causes of death, wildly out of whack infection/death rate models
More people will die sooner, before their time in the UK as a result of the Government's handling of this than will have GENUINELY died DIRECTLY from the so called Covid-19 virus.

I may be wrong but imho this is a Plandemic, not  EVERYONE is in on it but the way there's far too much feckery afoot. Bojo the Clown  will continue to be Ernest and deliver massive platitudes, giving mixed messages, dithering, advising, appealing, mildly admonishing rather than leading...gradual easing if restrictions followed by a 2nd spike, an "as you were" ..."back to your Anderson shelters" ....keep clapping the NHS....more restrictions, more businesses and households bankrupt, the economy in the shitter...but look, who is that on the horizon? Why, it's..it's Bill Gates with a super duper vaccine..Huzzah!! Were saved!!

The latest research indicates that vitamin C, D and Zinc are effective, as is an existing anti-Malarial drug but Gates has been hoovering up Pharma companies and heavily investing in research labs and institutes forafor years and nowbnow herhe is relentlessly pushing  the idea that the only way back to normality is by a total global vaccination program (that he will profit from to the tune of hundreds of billions of dollars); also,  the virus doesn't survive long in direct sunlight and open  spaces but does thrive in enclosed, humid spaces.

If you're old, frail, diabetic, a smoker, have a lung or respiratory condition, are immuno compromised, an ethnic minority and/or obese then you should be protected...everybody else should be sensible, follow the social distancing and hygiene guidelines and get back to work while there's still jobs to go back to.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on May 09, 2020, 13:09:19 pm
I think I read somewhere that smokers are proportionately less likely to die from Covid than non smokers !
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on May 09, 2020, 13:11:28 pm
Ahh maybe it's less likely to catch it than less likely to die from it...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/04/23/smokers-four-times-less-likely-contract-covid-19-prompting-nicotine/amp/
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Matt2112 on May 09, 2020, 13:36:16 pm
Bisto, I share your concerns, just not the avalanche of non-sequiturs that (don't) follow from them.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on May 09, 2020, 14:27:57 pm
Quote from: Slim on May 06, 2020, 14:33:46 pmIt's appalling behaviour, but if you're hoping to prove the point that his actual advice was suspect, irrespective of his personal judgement in following it or not - please feel free to make a start.
What I will say, without fear of being incorrect, is that Mr Ferguson has a pretty poor performance when it comes to previous disease outcome predictions.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: captainkurtz on May 09, 2020, 16:37:32 pm
Quote from: Matt2112 on May 09, 2020, 13:36:16 pmBistro, I share your concerns, just not the avalanche of non-sequiturs that (don't) follow from them.
I think Bistros are all closed at the minute, I think...
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Matt2112 on May 09, 2020, 17:32:20 pm
Quote from: captainkurtz on May 09, 2020, 16:37:32 pmI think Bistros are all closed at the minute, I think...
Whooops - typo corrected. :)
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: zoony on May 09, 2020, 23:29:59 pm
Quote from: döm on May 09, 2020, 13:09:19 pmI think I read somewhere that smokers are proportionately less likely to die from Covid than non smokers !
Why should smokers be given special treatment anyway? No one forces them to do it.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on May 09, 2020, 23:32:35 pm
Quote from: zoony on May 09, 2020, 23:29:59 pmWhy should smokers be given special treatment anyway? No one forces them to do it.
No idea! You'll have to ask the virus.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Slim on May 10, 2020, 15:12:19 pm
Just heard that in Germany, the spread of the virus has started to accelerate, following the relaxation of some of the restrictions there. So - this is a critical moment.

This is the 7-day moving average picture as of yesterday. Pleasing downward trend there, still rather grim of course. Would be very depressing to see that progress compromised, so I hope (and believe) that the PM's advice will be cautious and modest, this evening. And probably disappointing for many.

(http://truth.justdied.com/images/200510chart.png)
I see that the PM has had some stick in some quarters for not doing the press conferences himself in recent days, but I think this was wise - otherwise the questions would have been all about "why won't you tell us now?". I suggest that the government probably wanted to get this bank holiday weekend over with before making any changes to the advice.

Based on the above trend I would expect today's reported UK death figure to be something like 195.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Nïckslïkk2112 on May 10, 2020, 15:43:48 pm
Quote from: Slim on May 10, 2020, 15:12:19 pmBased on the above trend I would expect today's reported UK death figure to be something like 195.
Close. 205 for Hospital deaths.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on May 10, 2020, 17:01:52 pm
What was going on with all those press releases that the main Johnson supporting papers went with last week i.e. lockdown joy next week". "Hurrah Lockdown freedom beckons"

Deliberately misleading or a miscalculation?  At a time when crystal clear communication is critical the Government is doing a pretty poor job . What makes it worse is that these headlines came from briefings issued on the eve of a public holiday when people would be very tempted to break regulations with regard to social distancing.

At a time when the UK leads the World for CIVID deaths  on the 7 day average per head of population this is no time for such confusion/contradiction.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Bisto on May 10, 2020, 17:18:43 pm
Jesus, have just seen the abortion that the Secretary of State made of the press briefing specifically on the App Makes Bojos PMQs performance seem positively statesmanlike in comparison.

Hancock's more than half hour
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Slim on May 10, 2020, 17:25:48 pm
Quote from: döm on May 10, 2020, 17:01:52 pmWhat was going on with all those press releases that the main Johnson supporting papers went with last week i.e. lockdown joy next week". "Hurrah Lockdown freedom beckons"

Deliberately misleading or a miscalculation?  At a time when crystal clear communication is critical the Government is doing a pretty poor job.

FYI the government doesn't run the newspapers, nor the broadcast media. I'm also suspicious of your notion that we are leading the world on COVID deaths per head of population at the moment. I dare say there's a set of figures that supports that somewhere, but the veracity of those is difficult to establish. They may well represent only a more comprehensive and accurate approach to reporting the statistics.

And although to your credit you haven't suggested that it is, just as an aside I don't regard figures like those in themselves as a simple measure of government performance anyway.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Bez on May 10, 2020, 17:29:08 pm
Remember everyone, "Stay Alert"

FFS, bring back Cummings, at least he could make up a decent slogan. This one must've been made up by the work experience boy...

Or is it designed as a way of shirking respopnsibility - if all goes well "we can take the credit" and if it goes badly "we warned you"
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: zoony on May 10, 2020, 19:28:50 pm
This constant badgering by the press about setting forward a plan of how we are going to get out of lockdown is doing more harm than good. It has been very quiet around here where I live since the lockdown started, but with all this talk about restrictions possibly being lifted, it was busy around our country park yesterday, with cars coming from miles around. It is still to early to make changes, and the press needs to start thinking about the messages they are sending out.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on May 10, 2020, 19:52:05 pm
I think that Boris was about to significantly ease the restrictions but he was torpedoed by the devolved parliaments who warned against it. Obviously it makes sense for the UK to move as one so he's likely to say very little this evening. I suspect a re-write was in order.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on May 10, 2020, 20:01:09 pm
Quote from: zoony on May 10, 2020, 19:28:50 pmThis constant badgering by the press about setting forward a plan of how we are going to get out of lockdown is doing more harm than good. It has been very quiet around here where I live since the lockdown started, but with all this talk about restrictions possibly being lifted, it was busy around our country park yesterday, with cars coming from miles around. It is still to early to make changes, and the press needs to start thinking about the messages they are sending out.
In reply both to you and Slim, very often those messages are coming from Government. It's abundantly clear for example that with so many papers pushing the same lockdown to be relaxed story on Thursday that the journalists had been briefed by No 10.

It has long been like this. All major policy changes are well known before they are announced as is every budget.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on May 10, 2020, 20:17:48 pm
Quarantine for those arriving in the UK by air. No mention of any changes if you arrive by dinghy.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on May 10, 2020, 20:28:46 pm
Quote from: DavidL on May 10, 2020, 20:17:48 pmQuarantine for those arriving in the UK by air. No mention of any changes if you arrive by dinghy.
I don't get the reasoning behind that? That horse has bolted. Back in early March it might have had some effect but with it so well established in the community it's pretty pointless now. I think anyone arriving by dinghy does go into a version of quarantine. That was the case long before Covid Nigel!
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Matt2112 on May 10, 2020, 20:33:24 pm
Pubs open within two months! HURRAH!!!! 😬🍻
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Bez on May 10, 2020, 20:35:16 pm
Quote from: DavidL on May 10, 2020, 20:17:48 pmQuarantine for those arriving in the UK by air. No mention of any changes if you arrive by dinghy.
"might be introduced soon...."

If they're going to do it, why not do it now...?
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Slim on May 10, 2020, 20:37:31 pm
Quote from: döm on May 10, 2020, 20:01:09 pmIn reply both to you and Slim, very often those messages are coming from Government. It's abundantly clear for example that with so many papers pushing the same lockdown to be relaxed story on Thursday that the journalists had been briefed by No 10.
Could you substantiate this for us, please, given that it's "clear"; even "abundantly clear"? Who at No 10 briefed journalists to expect a misleading message, and when? I'll be very interested to hear about the information you have on this, because I'm not aware of it myself. Please do share it with us - thanks Dom.

Who briefed whom, please?
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Bez on May 10, 2020, 20:40:22 pm
Quote from: Slim on May 10, 2020, 20:37:31 pmCould you substantiate this for us, please, given that it's "clear"; even "abundantly clear"? Who at No 10 briefed journalists to expect a misleading message, and when? I'll be very interested to hear about the information you have on this, because I'm not aware of it myself. Please do share it with us - thanks Dom.

Who briefed whom, please?
we'll never see substantiove evidence, but its clear from the breadth of reporting in the papers that "someone" had come up with a message about the "good news" coming at the weekend...

I suspect that you have as much doubt as I do, that this came from "government"....
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Slim on May 10, 2020, 20:48:26 pm
Quote from: Matt2112 on May 10, 2020, 20:33:24 pmPubs open within two months! HURRAH!!!! 😬🍻

As the PM pointed out with commendable clarity, there's a big IF attached to that one.

Haters gonna hate; I get that. But for me that was the most statesmanlike example of national leadership I can remember in my lifetime - note-perfect and just right in tone, and I think Winston Churchill himself would have been proud.

Of course if he'd stuck to the simple message and come out and said "just stay at home", the usual suspects would complain bitterly that he's not offering any hope or nuance or a way out of it.

Offer a bit of nuance and hope and detail, display some flexibility for changing circumstances and the dickheads at the BBC and C4 will - I have no doubt - complain bitterly that he's made it too complicated for them or diluting the message.

But although he can't win with the narrow-minded clowns on the left, the voters tend to be a different story and I think he's done a lot today to reinforce his tendency to win with the people who matter.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on May 10, 2020, 20:49:21 pm
Quote from: Slim on May 10, 2020, 20:37:31 pmCould you substantiate this for us, please, given that it's "clear"; even "abundantly clear"? Who at No 10 briefed journalists to expect a misleading message, and when? I'll be very interested to hear about the information you have on this, because I'm not aware of it myself. Please do share it with us - thanks Dom.

Who briefed whom, please?
Tbh I think that's a little disingenous
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Slim on May 10, 2020, 20:49:58 pm
Quote from: Bez on May 10, 2020, 20:40:22 pmwe'll never see substantiove evidence, but its clear from the breadth of reporting in the papers that "someone" had come up with a message about the "good news" coming at the weekend...

I suspect that you have as much doubt as I do, that this came from "government"....

I seem to have a lot more doubt than you do, about that. I have no reason whatever to suppose that anyone at Number 10 briefed anyone on that, so I guess we'll wait to see Dom's "abundantly clear" evidence. Looking forward to that.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Slim on May 10, 2020, 20:53:39 pm
Quote from: Bez on May 10, 2020, 20:35:16 pm"might be introduced soon...."

If they're going to do it, why not do it now...?

Well - the answer, as the PM pointed out pretty explicitly, is that what they do depends on the circumstances - on the data and the science. So whether they do it soon or not depends on whether it's considered safe to do so at the time.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Slim on May 10, 2020, 20:57:28 pm
Quote from: Nïckslïkk2112 on May 10, 2020, 15:43:48 pmClose. 205 for Hospital deaths.
Yes and deaths reported in all settings is 269 I believe, which does see the moving average curve stepping sideways a tiny bit:

(http://truth.justdied.com/images/200510_c2.png)

.. so I'll be very interested to see figures over the next couple of days.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Slim on May 10, 2020, 21:00:56 pm
Quote from: döm on May 10, 2020, 20:28:46 pmI don't get the reasoning behind that? That horse has bolted. Back in early March it might have had some effect but with it so well established in the community it's pretty pointless now.

This is a fair question I think, but the point is that the virus is becoming less well-established in the community, now. So for example in a couple of weeks time if the virus is practically clear from the East Midlands, you don't want three or four infected people flying into Donington then immediately going to visit their relatives in Derby or Leicester. I assume that's the logic, anyway.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on May 10, 2020, 21:02:01 pm
Quote from: döm on May 10, 2020, 20:28:46 pmI think anyone arriving by dinghy does go into a version of quarantine. That was the case long before Covid Nigel!
I don't believe it was the case, is the case and, probably, never will be the case. I'm sure Shami Chakrabati would be hollering if it was.

https://www.kentonline.co.uk/dover/news/migrants-must-be-quarantined-says-mp-224445/
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on May 10, 2020, 21:28:42 pm
Quote from: Slim on May 10, 2020, 21:00:56 pmThis is a fair question I think, but the point is that the virus is becoming less well-established in the community, now. So for example in a couple of weeks time if the virus is practically clear from the East Midlands, you don't want three or four infected people flying into Donington then immediately going to visit their relatives in Derby or Leicester. I assume that's the logic, anyway.
And it's interesting that Saturday's papers were well aware of this. Time travelling journalists I wonder?
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Nïckslïkk2112 on May 10, 2020, 21:31:33 pm
Quote from: DavidL on May 10, 2020, 20:17:48 pmQuarantine for those arriving in the UK by air. No mention of any changes if you arrive by dinghy.
Well, it's not going to apply to Johnny Froggoland anyway:

Quote from: undefinedBoris Johnson and French President Emmanuel Macron have issued a joint statement saying quarantine measures would not apply between France and the UK "at this stage".
The UK prime minister said in his address to the nation this evening that he was "serving notice" that it would soon be the time to impose a quarantine on people coming into the country by air.
Downing Street has since issued a statement saying the leaders spoke on Sunday and agreed that "co-operation is particularly necessary for the management of our common border".
The statement said: "No quarantine measures would apply to travellers coming from France at this stage; any measures on either side would be taken in a concerted and reciprocal manner."

As for the change from "Stay Home" to "Stay Alert" it's not very snappy, but with some relaxing of the rules means that "Stay Home" isn't the be all and end all anymore and "Stay Home As far as possible unless you're doing Blah, Blah, Blah" won't fit on the briefing lecterns. So, it's a bit of damned if you do, damned if you don't.

And being as a sizeable minority of the public cannot understand "Stay Home" of the concept of Social Distancing it makes bugger all difference what is said.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Nick on May 10, 2020, 21:55:17 pm
Quote from: Slim on May 10, 2020, 21:00:56 pmThis is a fair question I think, but the point is that the virus is becoming less well-established in the community, now. So for example in a couple of weeks time if the virus is practically clear from the East Midlands, you don't want three or four infected people flying into Donington then immediately going to visit their relatives in Derby or Leicester. I assume that's the logic, anyway.
We are an actual island.. we should have had one of the easiest routes to minimise infection.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on May 10, 2020, 22:10:27 pm
If you missed the PM's announcement this evening, here's a quick summary...

https://twitter.com/RealMattLucas/status/1259566662791106569?s=09
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Nïckslïkk2112 on May 10, 2020, 22:46:52 pm
Quote from: Nick on May 10, 2020, 21:55:17 pmWe are an actual island.. we should have had one of the easiest routes to minimise infection.
An Island with the world's busiest two runway airport and busiest single runway airport. An Island with multiple ferry connections and a railway link to Yurp. An Island with a common travel area with a neighbouring island, a neighbouring island which even now has regular flights to China.

Of course we are also an Island which most probably had infectious people here before the Chinese made their first announcement of COVID19
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Nïckslïkk2112 on May 10, 2020, 22:47:34 pm
Quote from: Slim on May 10, 2020, 21:00:56 pmSo for example in a couple of weeks time if the virus is practically clear from the East Midlands, you don't want three or four infected people flying into Donington then immediately going to visit their relatives in Derby or Leicester. 
I don't think East Mids handles flights from South Asia...
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on May 10, 2020, 23:23:32 pm
The head of West Yorkshire police is not impressed with tonight's announcement...

Policing Covid 19 has become impossible after today.  My colleagues cannot Engage, Explain, Encourage or Enforce such woolly rules.  This is now down to the public to Police itself.  Please let's avoid a second spike. @WestYorksPolFed @Cameramal
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Matt2112 on May 10, 2020, 23:24:26 pm
I genuinely don't get why "Stay Alert" seems to be attracting so much disdain.

Sturgeon is even saying she doesn't know what the phrase means, as if it's a Times cryptic crossword clue, or something.

Google's definition of "alert" in this context is: "quick to notice any...potentially dangerous or difficult circumstances; vigilant"

So what's objectionable about it exactly? 🤷🏻‍♂️
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Matt2112 on May 10, 2020, 23:31:12 pm
Quote from: döm on May 10, 2020, 23:23:32 pmThe head of West Yorkshire police is not impressed with tonight's announcement...

Policing Covid 19 has become impossible after today.  My colleagues cannot Engage, Explain, Encourage or Enforce such woolly rules.  This is now down to the public to Police itself.  Please let's avoid a second spike. @WestYorksPolFed @Cameramal
Well then that person needs to step down and let someone who does know how my county can be policed crack on wit t'job.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Bez on May 10, 2020, 23:50:02 pm
Quote from: Matt2112 on May 10, 2020, 23:24:26 pmI genuinely don't get why "Stay Alert" seems to be attracting so much disdain.

Sturgeon is even saying she doesn't know what the phrase means, as if it's a Times cryptic crossword clue, or something.

Google's definition of "alert" in this context is: "quick to notice any...potentially dangerous or difficult circumstances; vigilant"

So what's objectionable about it exactly? 🤷🏻‍♂️
Its open to interpretation and doesn't actually "instruct" the reader what to do...
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Bez on May 10, 2020, 23:50:50 pm
Quote from: Slim on May 10, 2020, 20:49:58 pmI seem to have a lot more doubt than you do, about that. I have no reason whatever to suppose that anyone at Number 10 briefed anyone on that, so I guess we'll wait to see Dom's "abundantly clear" evidence. Looking forward to that.
I didn't take you for a sheep....
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Bez on May 10, 2020, 23:53:45 pm
Quote from: Slim on May 10, 2020, 20:53:39 pmWell - the answer, as the PM pointed out pretty explicitly, is that what they do depends on the circumstances - on the data and the science. So whether they do it soon or not depends on whether it's considered safe to do so at the time.
I don't have the actual quote to hand, but my understanding of it at the time was that it was coming...if that's the case, why the delay?

he definiatively mentioned air travel, but not ferrys / boats, train (channel tunnel, ie HGV drivers because that would seriously impact our trade with Europe), jetski, paddelboard, windsurfer etc...
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Bez on May 10, 2020, 23:54:50 pm
Quote from: Slim on May 10, 2020, 20:57:28 pmYes and deaths reported in all settings is 269 I believe, which does see the moving average curve stepping sideways a tiny bit:

(http://truth.justdied.com/images/200510_c2.png)

.. so I'll be very interested to see figures over the next couple of days.
Figures are usually lower at the wekends due to issues around registration...
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on May 11, 2020, 08:18:54 am
Quote from: DavidL on May 10, 2020, 20:17:48 pmNo mention of any changes if you arrive by dinghy.
Ah, no quarantine if you arrive from France then. That clears that up.
Macron and Johnson will operate a racist policy.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Matt2112 on May 11, 2020, 09:31:14 am
Quote from: DavidL on May 11, 2020, 08:18:54 amAh, no quarantine if you arrive from France then. That clears that up.
Macron and Johnson will operate a racist policy.
Illegal immigrants arriving by whatever means surely won't be ushered straight through border control and allowed to freely roam the country, either?  I agree we shouldn't have laissez-faire immigration policies, but that generally appears to be the case, does it not?
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: zoony on May 11, 2020, 09:36:10 am
Have to say I didn't think much of last nights announcement, and it has actually caused more confusion than before with Scotland and Wales giving different guidance, which just backs up my strong belief that we should all be separate, and feck the UK. The only thing that I really got from the PM was try and be as safe as you can, but you've got to get back to work or we're fecked.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on May 11, 2020, 10:33:16 am
Quote from: Matt2112 on May 11, 2020, 09:31:14 amIllegal immigrants arriving by whatever means surely won't be ushered straight through border control and allowed to freely roam the country, either?  I agree we shouldn't have laissez-faire immigration policies, but that generally appears to be the case, does it not?
They are currently not quarantined
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Matt2112 on May 11, 2020, 11:05:15 am
Quote from: DavidL on May 11, 2020, 10:33:16 amThey are currently not quarantined
Nobody is, legal or illegal.  So what's the process?
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on May 11, 2020, 11:42:33 am
Quote from: Matt2112 on May 11, 2020, 11:05:15 amNobody is, legal or illegal.  So what's the process?
I'm not sure, after all, I don't work for UK Border Force so I'm unlikely to know but I think dom may be able to help
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on May 11, 2020, 12:34:40 pm
Quote from: DavidL on May 11, 2020, 11:42:33 amI'm not sure, after all, I don't work for UK Border Force so I'm unlikely to know but I think dom may be able to help
not my area of expertise but I assumed they were detained somewhere.  Found this - it is 5 years old but probably still applies ?

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-33729417 (https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-33729417)
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on May 11, 2020, 13:00:25 pm
Quote from: döm on May 11, 2020, 12:34:40 pmnot my area of expertise but I assumed they were detained somewhere. 
I assume that most are placed in hotels unless they are believed to not have a case for seeking asylum. As most come from France, virtually none have a case for asylum in the UK and should be detained and returned to that country. No quarantine on arrival at the moment as far as I can gather.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Slim on May 11, 2020, 17:14:48 pm
Listening to Starmer in the Commons, complaining that there's an inconsistency between the approach taken by the UK government and the devolved administrations, in particular Scotland. He wants us to leave the lockdown restrictions as one United Kingdom, as we entered them.

But it seems to me that that's one for Sturgeon and co, not the Prime Minister. They're entitled to take whatever approach the devolved powers allow, but I can't see a case for the Prime Minister of the entire United Kingdom to have to adjust his guidance for the 56 million people who live in England to match the 11 million who live in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland by the various heads of regional government. I just don't see a reason for the tail to wag the dog for the sake of consistency.

Various SNP bozos trying to wind Boris up by implying that he's the Prime Minister of England; quite rightly he's not having it. I must say though that Starmer's tone was reasonable and constructive this time.

Meanwhile today's reported UK death toll was 210 which sees the trend tipping down a bit more sharply again, happily. The previous Monday figure was 288, the one before that 338, the one before that 559.

Oh Christ here comes Corbyn - apparently the coronavirus crisis is all about inequality, and relaxing the restrictions is making it worse. Of course it is.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: zoony on May 12, 2020, 11:43:27 am
So you're allowed to have a cleaner or a nannies come to your house, but no mention of a member of your immediate family being allowed to visit?! feckING JOKE! My granddaughter is nearly 3 weeks old, and I still haven't had a chance to meet her properly, or see my grandson in the house. I could have a cleaner in who I don't know where the feck they have been, or who with. ABSOLUTE DOGSHIT!
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Bez on May 12, 2020, 13:19:45 pm
Quote from: zoony on May 12, 2020, 11:43:27 amSo you're allowed to have a cleaner or a nannies come to your house, but no mention of a member of your immediate family being allowed to visit?! feckING JOKE! My granddaughter is nearly 3 weeks old, and I still haven't had a chance to meet her properly, or see my grandson in the house. I could have a cleaner in who I don't know where the feck they have been, or who with. ABSOLUTE DOGSHIT!
As you know, Rob, Mrs B is a teacher....

She teaches reception aged kids 4 - 5, current plans seem to boil down to this:

Class sizes of 15 with 1 adult per class. (normally 30 kids spilt across 2 - 3 adults)
The current plan seems to be to take anything soft out of the classroom (sofa, cuddly toys etc)
Anything that can't be cleaned easily (Toys, building blocks etc) to be removed
No books to be sent home
Pencils to be cleaned between each use
Toilets not to be shared (currently one block of toilest across 60 kids). Potentially cleaned multiple times a day
Coridorrs to be segregated
Social distancing to be observed
Kids to use the outside space - outside space to be segregated
Not interaction at breaktime, outside or lunch with kids outside a class of 15
Social distancing at drop off / pick up times.
Staggered starts, breaks and day ends  - this one really makes me laugh. Its chaos at drop off and pick up and takes more than 1 pair of eyes and 8 arms to supervise....who looks after the remianing kids while this happens...?

All this but she's not alllowed to interact with our nephews who attend the same school.

Anyone who has ever tried to "control" two 5 year olds (let alone 15) will understand the frustration....
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: BasspedalMan on May 12, 2020, 13:31:14 pm
At this point in time it would appear that Matt Lucas' appraisal of the revised regulations are the most coherent!! It truly beggars belief.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: zoony on May 12, 2020, 15:44:18 pm
Quote from: Bez on May 12, 2020, 13:19:45 pmAs you know, Rob, Mrs B is a teacher....

She teaches reception aged kids 4 - 5, current plans seem to boil down to this:

Class sizes of 15 with 1 adult per class. (normally 30 kids spilt across 2 - 3 adults)
The current plan seems to be to take anything soft out of the classroom (sofa, cuddly toys etc)
Anything that can't be cleaned easily (Toys, building blocks etc) to be removed
No books to be sent home
Pencils to be cleaned between each use
Toilets not to be shared (currently one block of toilest across 60 kids). Potentially cleaned multiple times a day
Coridorrs to be segregated
Social distancing to be observed
Kids to use the outside space - outside space to be segregated
Not interaction at breaktime, outside or lunch with kids outside a class of 15
Social distancing at drop off / pick up times.
Staggered starts, breaks and day ends  - this one really makes me laugh. Its chaos at drop off and pick up and takes more than 1 pair of eyes and 8 arms to supervise....who looks after the remianing kids while this happens...?

All this but she's not alllowed to interact with our nephews who attend the same school.

Anyone who has ever tried to "control" two 5 year olds (let alone 15) will understand the frustration....
Absolutely ridiculous mate. It's so easy to come up with these "guidelines" when you're sat round in a cabinet office!
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Nïckslïkk2112 on May 12, 2020, 16:01:00 pm
Schools in Denmark are doing it. 

https://www.tes.com/news/what-it-denmarks-reopened-schools

Typical of Brits to seek any reason to do their country down. Typical of Brits these days to want to have someone holding their hands and leading them along all the time. Even in normal times life is about managing risk. COVID19 is just an additional level of risk we all have to adjust to at some point. You may not think now is that point, but it has to come.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Matt2112 on May 12, 2020, 16:29:25 pm
Green light for PL games to recommence from 1st June.  HURRAAH!!!
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: zoony on May 12, 2020, 22:21:20 pm
Quote from: Matt2112 on May 12, 2020, 16:29:25 pmGreen light for PL games to recommence from 1st June.  HURRAAH!!!
As the serious football fan that you are mate, I'm surprised that you appear so delighted about that. They will be a mere shadow of what we are used to, and watching games played behind closed doors just has no appeal to me whatsoever.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Matt2112 on May 12, 2020, 23:23:37 pm
Quote from: zoony on May 12, 2020, 22:21:20 pmAs the serious football fan that you are mate, I'm surprised that you appear so delighted about that. They will be a mere shadow of what we are used to, and watching games played behind closed doors just has no appeal to me whatsoever.
I'll take any development that shows things are tending back towards normal mate, however small,  gradual or tentative they may be.

Bundesliga recommences this Saturday... :)
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on May 13, 2020, 08:22:08 am
I get your point Matt but to me playing premier League matches in June behind closed doors is still quite a long way from normal!
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Bez on May 13, 2020, 08:54:02 am
I'm with Matt on this one....any progress is good progress.

Liverpool deserve to have the season finished (much as I dislike them) and relegation and promotion issues need to be finalised ojn the pitch rather than arbitarily in a boardroom
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Matt2112 on May 13, 2020, 09:43:02 am
Quote from: döm on May 13, 2020, 08:22:08 amI get your point Matt but to me playing premier League matches in June behind closed doors is still quite a long way from normal!
Of course, and I accept the world has changed probably irrevocably.  

But no football at all isn't just not normal, it's a real-life dystopian nightmare...! :)
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: zoony on May 13, 2020, 10:46:25 am
Quote from: Bez on May 13, 2020, 08:54:02 amI'm with Matt on this one....any progress is good progress.

Liverpool deserve to have the season finished (much as I dislike them) and relegation and promotion issues need to be finalised ojn the pitch rather than arbitarily in a boardroom
I agreed with this view to start with mate, but the longer it has gone on, the more I think that the season should now be scrapped. Playing behind closed doors, neutral venues and talk of allowing extra substitutes to used means that the remaining games are being played under totally different conditions to the games that have already been played. That just totally compromises the integrity of the competition, and that just can't be right.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on May 13, 2020, 11:22:07 am
I think that the clubs will do all they can to finish the league.  Voiding it will cause a huge financial headache and may even cause some clubs to go bust.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Nïckslïkk2112 on May 13, 2020, 11:36:14 am
Quote from: zoony on May 13, 2020, 10:46:25 amI agreed with this view to start with mate, but the longer it has gone on, the more I think that the season should now be scrapped. Playing behind closed doors, neutral venues and talk of allowing extra substitutes to used means that the remaining games are being played under totally different conditions to the games that have already been played. That just totally compromises the integrity of the competition, and that just can't be right.
You used the word INTEGRITY with regard to a Soccerball competition BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Bez on May 13, 2020, 12:12:28 pm
Quote from: zoony on May 13, 2020, 10:46:25 amI agreed with this view to start with mate, but the longer it has gone on, the more I think that the season should now be scrapped. Playing behind closed doors, neutral venues and talk of allowing extra substitutes to used means that the remaining games are being played under totally different conditions to the games that have already been played. That just totally compromises the integrity of the competition, and that just can't be right.
Not fair to scrap it completely....Liverpool have been far and away the best team in the Prem.

I take your point about it being devalued and that gives me a come-back for when the fans are crwoing about finally getting off the mark :D
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: zoony on May 13, 2020, 12:32:55 pm
Quote from: Nïckslïkk2112 on May 13, 2020, 11:36:14 amYou used the word INTEGRITY with regard to a Soccerball competition BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!!!
Yes Simmers, but that was just referring to the rules and conditions that are being proposed for them to be played under. No doubt all the usual cheating and play acting would still be on full view though.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: zoony on May 13, 2020, 12:35:49 pm
Quote from: Bez on May 13, 2020, 12:12:28 pmNot fair to scrap it completely....Liverpool have been far and away the best team in the Prem.


I wouldn't argue with your second point mate, and you'd be gutted if you were a true Liverpool supporter. As for not being fair, I'm afraid not a lot is these days.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: zoony on May 13, 2020, 12:49:14 pm
As for the great leadership that Slim is always banging on about, does anyone watch Good morning Britain. It appears that members of the cabinet are now refusing to go on this show. Now there are a lot of people that may not like Piers Morgan, but all he does on there is ask straightforward questions regarding the coronavirus outbreak, and the rules and guidelines that we are being given. These are the kind of questions that most of us are asking, and that need answering. The trouble is is that members of the cabinet can very rarely seem to answer these questions, and are sometimes made to look foolish. As I mentioned above, someone has now taken the decision to tell them not to appear on there. Now is that what you would call good leadership if you can't front up and answer, and explain these serious decisions that are being made?
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Matt2112 on May 14, 2020, 09:27:02 am
Quote from: Nïckslïkk2112 on May 13, 2020, 11:36:14 amYou used the word INTEGRITY with regard to a Soccerball competition BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!!!
Easy to mock football when your highest-ranked local team is Chesterfield.

Speaking of which, thanks for the six points.  :D ;)
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Slim on May 15, 2020, 15:10:52 pm
Quote from: zoony on May 13, 2020, 12:49:14 pmAs for the great leadership that Slim is always banging on about, does anyone watch Good morning Britain. It appears that members of the cabinet are now refusing to go on this show. Now there are a lot of people that may not like Piers Morgan, but all he does on there is ask straightforward questions regarding the coronavirus outbreak, and the rules and guidelines that we are being given.

To my mind he is just being hostile, awkward and unhelpful for its own sake, almost like a teenager. It doesn't serve the public interest for ministers to waste their time going on there in my opinion. I'm encouraged to see that many of most of the comments on his Twitter feed recognise his act for what it is. I don't know if the PM has instructed ministers not to go on there but if he has - yep, that's strong leadership in my view and I very much welcome and respect it. No nonsense.

It's a similar story by the way with the idiot narcissist Stephen Nolan on 5 Live, whose small-minded anti-Conservative prejudice has been laid bare in recent weeks. As he admitted himself a week ago his own audience has been complaining that he's putting lives at risk by actively seeking to undermine the government effort and while he didn't agree with that point of view himself, I do think it's spot on personally.

The government is after all answering live questions every day with a huge audience watching and listening, so I don't see a deficit in accountability.

Anyway - good to see the reported death figure trend continuing down in recent days. I'd be looking for something like 520 today to see the trend continue downward at roughly the same rate. Previous Friday figures, working backwards : 626, 739, 1005.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on May 15, 2020, 15:46:47 pm
The media is doing its job as far as I'm concerned.  Much rather getting politicians hot under the collar rather than the sycophantic style seen on Fox News.

Politicians are there to be grilled and questioned.  It's an important function and we would be much worse off without them
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Slim on May 15, 2020, 16:36:17 pm
Quote from: Slim on May 15, 2020, 15:10:52 pmAnyway - good to see the reported death figure trend continuing down in recent days. I'd be looking for something like 520 today to see the trend continue downward at roughly the same rate. Previous Friday figures, working backwards : 626, 739, 1005.

And it's 384. Horrible of course but in terms of the trend, encouraging.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Matt2112 on May 15, 2020, 17:12:25 pm
Quote from: döm on May 15, 2020, 15:46:47 pmThe media is doing its job as far as I'm concerned.  Much rather getting politicians hot under the collar rather than the sycophantic style seen on Fox News.

Politicians are there to be grilled and questioned.  It's an important function and we would be much worse off without them
Agreed - however, such scrutiny is often a blunt tool when wielded by the likes of Piers Morgan, who tend to ask soundbite, dichotomous questions in a confrontational manner that often require nuanced, reasoned answers which the time allocated doesn't allow - and he knows it.

He's no Andrew Neil, that's for sure.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on May 15, 2020, 17:47:31 pm
Quote from: Matt2112 on May 15, 2020, 17:12:25 pmAgreed - however, such scrutiny is often a blunt tool when wielded by the likes of Piers Morgan, who tend to ask soundbite, dichotomous questions in a confrontational manner that often require nuanced, reasoned answers which the time allocated doesn't allow - and he knows it.

He's no Andrew Neil, that's for sure.
yes he does sensationalise sometimes - he probably also realises that the  politician allocated doesn't allow either ! :D
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Matt2112 on May 16, 2020, 15:21:15 pm
Domestic and international flights operating  in Italy from June.

Beaches in Greece have reopened.

Time to book those summer jollies, folks!   8) :D
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Bez on May 16, 2020, 15:39:44 pm
Quote from: Matt2112 on May 16, 2020, 15:21:15 pmDomestic and international flights operating  in Italy from June.

Beaches in Greece have reopened.

Time to book those summer jollies, folks!  8) :D
I won't be sharing a plane with anyone for the foreseeable future...
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Matt2112 on May 16, 2020, 17:00:32 pm
Quote from: Bez on May 16, 2020, 15:39:44 pmI won't be sharing a plane with anyone for the foreseeable future...
There's always netjets.com  ::) ;)
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: zoony on May 16, 2020, 19:23:02 pm
I've been for a walk down by the river in Highley today, and then popped to Bridgnorth, 7 miles away, to pick up a Chinese (first for 3 weeks mind), and you'd have thought that covid-19 was over, and we'd all been vaccinated. VERY busy in both places. In a way I suppose we need to see things getting back to something like normal, but I feel it's still to early yet, and I hope it doesn't backfire dramatically.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Matt2112 on May 17, 2020, 11:29:49 am
Quote from: zoony on May 16, 2020, 19:23:02 pmI've been for a walk down by the river in Highley today, and then popped to Bridgnorth, 7 miles away, to pick up a Chinese (first for 3 weeks mind), and you'd have thought that covid-19 was over, and we'd all been vaccinated. VERY busy in both places. In a way I suppose we need to see things getting back to something like normal, but I feel it's still to early yet, and I hope it doesn't backfire dramatically.
Generally it appears most have heeded the advice to avoid beaches, national parks etc.  There is still the odd numpty element reportedly setting up bouncy castles in their back gardens etc but it doesn't look like a free-for-all  across the country at the moment.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Bez on May 17, 2020, 14:23:45 pm
Quote from: Matt2112 on May 17, 2020, 11:29:49 amGenerally it appears most have heeded the advice to avoid beaches, national parks etc.  There is still the odd numpty element reportedly setting up bouncy castles in their back gardens etc but it doesn't look like a free-for-all  across the country at the moment.
Then there's the twats in Hyde Park.... :(
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: pxr5 on May 17, 2020, 15:17:39 pm
Quote from: Bez on May 17, 2020, 14:23:45 pmThen there's the twats in Hyde Park.... :(
I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw that on the news. The police should have formed a large circle around them (staying 2m apart of course) and pelted them with CS gas and rubber bullets until suitably dispersed.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: zoony on May 17, 2020, 17:54:49 pm
Lots of "foreigners" down by the river Severn again in Highley today. I suppose we've got to expect that now though, especially at the weekends.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Slim on May 17, 2020, 20:53:11 pm
Data from John Hopkins University, as of a few days ago:

(http://[iurl="https://jgtruth.s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/covid_cases_uk.jpg"]https://jgtruth.s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/covid_cases_uk.jpg)(https://jgtruth.s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/covid_cases_uk.jpg)

We should be very cautious of making international comparisons at the moment but nonetheless I thought this was interesting. Surprised that, by this measure, the Swedes are doing even better than us given their preference to avoid a lockdown. But it's too early to draw conclusions.

Dom, is this playing out as a national scandal in Ireland? IMO I don't think it should just yet; it will be a long time before we can know what's really happened.

Because it seems to me that there are so many variables that affect this. Prevalence of obesity, population density, cultural factors, age demographics, ethnic demographics, given that people of colour appear to be more vulnerable. Also the quality of infection handling in care homes (they aren't necessarily run by national governments, certainly they aren't in the UK). Even the climate plays a part, according to a virologist I heard on 5 Live yesterday. So does the degree of compliance with the restrictive measures that might be in place.

But of course there's always a temptation to score points.

I was slightly concerned by yesterday's UK death toll figure as it caused a slight upturn in the 7-day rolling average trend:

(https://jgtruth.s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/200517chart.png)

But as you can see it's on the way down again based on the most recent figure (170). I'll certainly follow the data for the next few days with close interest.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on May 17, 2020, 21:54:12 pm
Can't see that those stats are anything but meaningless as they are totally dependent on the level of testing being carried out in each country. Now if it was deaths/million, that would highlight a huge problem in Ireland, given the density of population.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on May 17, 2020, 23:52:02 pm
Exactly David. Slim asked about how poor those figures looked from an Irish perspective. But per head of population Ireland is carrying out many more tests than the UK. So inevitably more positive cases will be found.  And Ireland doesn't include phantom test figures in its totals!

Ireland has managed Covid much better than the UK. While Johnson dithered on taking action, Ireland acted. It didn't recommend people to stop going to pubs and restaurants, it closed them. While sporting organisations had to decide themselves whether to shut down, in Ireland that decision was taken by the Government.

And while the first steps back to normality have been marked by confusion and poor communication in the UK, Ireland has a clear 5 step plan.
Ireland certainly hasn't handled the whole situation perfectly. Care homes have suffered in Ireland as in the UK. Meat packing plants have been allowed to run poorly too and some have become hot spots. The multiple sharing of  hotel rooms by asylum seekers has caused hot spots in various towns around the country too.

But when this is all done and dusted I've no doubt that the UK will have been seen to have managed this much worse than Ireland.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: zoony on May 18, 2020, 12:00:20 pm
Heartbreaking story on Good morning Britain today when they were talking to 2 sisters whose 68 year old mother had died in a care home when she contracted covid-19 from another person in the home who had been sent there from hospital when they were showing symptoms, and turned out to also have it. Now Johnson, Gove and Hancock have all said that care homes went into lockdown a week before the rest of the country did. This was incorrect, so they have all told a bare faced lie to all of us. Not very good, is it?
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Bez on May 18, 2020, 14:32:38 pm
It seems that the advice on symtoms has changed to now include loss of smell or tase....

I remember this being all over social media weeks ago and now the government agree to add it to the recommendations...FFS! >:(
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: captainkurtz on May 18, 2020, 14:39:39 pm
Nadine Dorries said she'd lost her sense (snigger) weeks ago, when she contracted covid..
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Bez on May 18, 2020, 14:43:09 pm
Quote from: captainkurtz on May 18, 2020, 14:39:39 pmNadine Dorries said she'd lost her sense (snigger) weeks ago, when she contracted covid..
Who told her? She'd never have worked it out for herself...
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: pdw1 on May 18, 2020, 15:33:35 pm
Quote from: captainkurtz on May 18, 2020, 14:39:39 pmNadine Dorries said she'd lost her sense (snigger) weeks ago, when she contracted covid..
Is that fake news like the videos she re-tweets?
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Matt2112 on May 18, 2020, 16:29:20 pm
Quote from: pdw1 on May 18, 2020, 15:33:35 pmIs that fake news like the videos she re-tweets?
It's okay though, cos she's deleted all that.

It's an easy mistake to make though isn't it, distributing with apparent endorsement a poisonous, libellous far right smear campaign, by sheer coincidence the day after Starmer was smashing it at PMQs.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Matt2112 on May 18, 2020, 16:42:12 pm
Spain reopening its borders to international travel in about 6 weeks.

This seemingly blanket policy about quarantining arrivals for 14 days appears to be temporary - so by the time our own leaders get round to implementing it, they actually may not need to.

Get yer jollies booked! 👍🏻😎
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: captainkurtz on May 18, 2020, 18:56:16 pm
Bit gutted....got Alicante booked for 3 days and was hoping flight would be cancelled...just don't really fancy it...
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: zoony on May 18, 2020, 21:41:32 pm
This may sound a bit daft, but after a few weeks of wishing we could just get back to normal, the sight of a lot more people than normal out and about over the weekend actually annoyed me. Not being able to see my grandchildren properly is really tough, but other than that, my life hasn't really changed, and I've been enjoying the peacefulness of "lockdown".
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Matt2112 on May 19, 2020, 09:59:01 am
So-called "Air Bridges" being mulled over by the Government - a mutual agreement between countries with low R rates not to quarantine incoming air travellers.

Summer may not be cancelled. 😎
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Bez on May 19, 2020, 10:31:43 am
Quote from: Matt2112 on May 19, 2020, 09:59:01 amSo-called "Air Bridges" being mulled over by the Government - a mutual agreement between countries with low R rates not to quarantine incoming air travellers.

Summer may not be cancelled. 😎
mmmm, its a bit like not quarantining truck drivers from the continent or allowing kids back into schools...expedient for the government, but with no realy care for those implementing the changes...

I note that parliament are still practising social distancing, but execting others to forgoe it...
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on May 19, 2020, 10:37:41 am
Quote from: DavidL on May 11, 2020, 08:18:54 amAh, no quarantine if you arrive from France then. That clears that up.
Macron and Johnson will operate a racist policy.
Rethink required by Macron and Johnson. The EU have threatened to give their lawyers more work  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Matt2112 on May 19, 2020, 10:57:31 am
Quote from: Bez on May 19, 2020, 10:31:43 ammmmm, its a bit like not quarantining truck drivers from the continent or allowing kids back into schools...expedient for the government, but with no realy care for those implementing the changes...

I note that parliament are still practising social distancing, but execting others to forgoe it...
Certainly expedient for a travel industry on its knees with the prospect of losing employees at an unprecedented rate.  Until we can defeat this pandemic - itself not guaranteed - the fact is there's going to be trade-offs of risk which need managing somehow.

Second point perhaps a bit unfair - surely the measures outlined for schools are if anything far stricter than those being practised in parliament.  Reportedly, 22 countries have at least partially re-opened their schools with no apparent serious consequences.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Nïckslïkk2112 on May 19, 2020, 11:20:30 am
Quote from: Matt2112 on May 19, 2020, 10:57:31 amSecond point perhaps a bit unfair - surely the measures outlined for schools are if anything far stricter than those being practised in parliament.  Reportedly, 22 countries have at least partially re-opened their schools with no apparent serious consequences.
70 cases in France linked to schools

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/coronavirus/france-sees-flare-up-of-70-new-coronavirus-cases-after-schools-reopen/ar-BB14gDQy?ocid=spartanntp

But that's only linked to. No causality proven.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Bez on May 19, 2020, 11:23:40 am
Quote from: Matt2112 on May 19, 2020, 10:57:31 amCertainly expedient for a travel industry on its knees with the prospect of losing employees at an unprecedented rate.  Until we can defeat this pandemic - itself not guaranteed - the fact is there's going to be trade-offs of risk which need managing somehow.

Second point perhaps a bit unfair - surely the measures outlined for schools are if anything far stricter than those being practised in parliament.  Reportedly, 22 countries have at least partially re-opened their schools with no apparent serious consequences.
I look forward to your experiments in social distancing of groups of 4 - 5 year olds...

The rules / guidlines mean that very little "teaching" will take place as the majority of resources will be removed as they're "soft" or difficult to clean.

Mrs B (who teaches reception age kids) reckons that it'll take 50% of the day supervising hand washing and using the toilet...

A lot of teachers (especially in infant schools) are of the "older generation" and are therefore, more vulnerable. A point often glossed over by politicians who keep re-enforcing the message that the kids aren't at risk....
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Matt2112 on May 19, 2020, 13:13:44 pm
Quote from: Bez on May 19, 2020, 11:23:40 amI look forward to your experiments in social distancing of groups of 4 - 5 year olds...

The rules / guidlines mean that very little "teaching" will take place as the majority of resources will be removed as they're "soft" or difficult to clean.

Mrs B (who teaches reception age kids) reckons that it'll take 50% of the day supervising hand washing and using the toilet...

A lot of teachers (especially in infant schools) are of the "older generation" and are therefore, more vulnerable. A point often glossed over by politicians who keep re-enforcing the message that the kids aren't at risk....
All perfectly valid concerns, which makes me wonder how things are working out where schools have re-opened.  I'm just trying to weigh up the pros and cons, though admittedly I might be gradually less equivocal the nearer we get to the little un starting school in September (hopefully).
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: captainkurtz on May 19, 2020, 13:21:59 pm
Schools will become day care centres not centres of learning.  I'll be resisting sending mine back - although I'm fortunate in that I am able to do so...
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on May 19, 2020, 13:51:44 pm
Quote from: captainkurtz on May 19, 2020, 13:21:59 pmSchools will become day care centres not centres of learning.  
Would that not still be helpful, in order to get the nation back to work?
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: captainkurtz on May 19, 2020, 15:42:34 pm
Quote from: DavidL on May 19, 2020, 13:51:44 pmWould that not still be helpful, in order to get the nation back to work?
Perhaps - but completely unfair on headteachers and school staff, who must be under enormous pressure.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: pdw1 on May 19, 2020, 15:59:42 pm
The latest ONS statistics make interesting reading. In particular the excess deaths graph

(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/834/cpsprodpb/12417/production/_112357747_optimised-uk_mortality_v_average19may-nc.png)

from https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52721737
but we seemed to have reduced the spike at the expense of those in care homes.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Nïckslïkk2112 on May 19, 2020, 16:00:36 pm
Quote from: captainkurtz on May 19, 2020, 15:42:34 pmPerhaps - but completely unfair on headteachers and school staff, who must be under enormous pressure.
Wusses the lot of them
They should try working supermarket checkouts where you've got the great unwashed streaming by them everyday. They've all been working day in, day out since "Lockdown". Anyway, the way that teachers were all self-isolating before "Lockdown" was introduced they're all going to be recovered from COVID19 now :)
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: pdw1 on May 19, 2020, 16:08:50 pm
Quote from: Bez on May 19, 2020, 11:23:40 amI look forward to your experiments in social distancing of groups of 4 - 5 year olds...

The rules / guidlines mean that very little "teaching" will take place as the majority of resources will be removed as they're "soft" or difficult to clean.

Mrs B (who teaches reception age kids) reckons that it'll take 50% of the day supervising hand washing and using the toilet...

A lot of teachers (especially in infant schools) are of the "older generation" and are therefore, more vulnerable. A point often glossed over by politicians who keep re-enforcing the message that the kids aren't at risk....

Social distancing for young kids is going to be difficult but all the data points to them not being the main spreaders of the virus or being badly affected by it.

I would have said most of the teachers at my kids primary school are actually of the younger generation. I guess it depends on the school and the area.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: pdw1 on May 19, 2020, 16:20:24 pm
In fact my daughter's primary school has just sent out the letter to parents explaining how it is going to work. 120 kids max spread over 11 class room. So 10~12 per classroom and per teacher. Kids and teachers will always stay in the same groups; so a bubble and far more isolated than the 6 friends allowed in northern ireland.

If things keep improving over the next 2 weeks then it does seem to make sense.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Bez on May 19, 2020, 16:53:59 pm
Quote from: pdw1 on May 19, 2020, 16:20:24 pmIn fact my daughter's primary school has just sent out the letter to parents explaining how it is going to work. 120 kids max spread over 11 class room. So 10~12 per classroom and per teacher. Kids and teachers will always stay in the same groups; so a bubble and far more isolated than the 6 friends allowed in northern ireland.

If things keep improving over the next 2 weeks then it does seem to make sense.
Somewhat short sighted as they'll be adding additional year groups over the coming weks, so the "spare" classrooms won't be available...
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Bez on May 19, 2020, 16:54:39 pm
Quote from: captainkurtz on May 19, 2020, 13:21:59 pmSchools will become day care centres not centres of learning.  I'll be resisting sending mine back - although I'm fortunate in that I am able to do so...
I wouldn't be sending mine back if they were young enough!
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Bez on May 19, 2020, 16:55:16 pm
Quote from: Nïckslïkk2112 on May 19, 2020, 16:00:36 pmWusses the lot of them
They should try working supermarket checkouts where you've got the great unwashed streaming by them everyday. They've all been working day in, day out since "Lockdown". Anyway, the way that teachers were all self-isolating before "Lockdown" was introduced they're all going to be recovered from COVID19 now :)
Twat
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Bez on May 19, 2020, 16:56:01 pm
Quote from: pdw1 on May 19, 2020, 16:08:50 pmSocial distancing for young kids is going to be difficult but all the data points to them not being the main spreaders of the virus or being badly affected by it.

I would have said most of the teachers at my kids primary school are actually of the younger generation. I guess it depends on the school and the area.
You're missing the point about the affect on staff....
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Nick on May 19, 2020, 17:38:51 pm
Saw a comment on Twitter saying its safe to send your kids back to school when your local MP sends theirs back.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Nick on May 19, 2020, 17:49:33 pm
Where the hell has Boris dissapeared to again?
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: zoony on May 19, 2020, 18:43:47 pm
Quote from: Nick on May 19, 2020, 17:49:33 pmWhere the hell has Boris dissapeared to again?
Providing great leadership from somewhere....
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: The Old Dog on May 19, 2020, 19:17:11 pm
Quote from: Bez on May 19, 2020, 16:53:59 pmSomewhat short sighted as they'll be adding additional year groups over the coming weks, so the "spare" classrooms won't be available...
Sounds like a clusterfeck waiting to happen .
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on May 19, 2020, 19:38:19 pm
Quote from: Nick on May 19, 2020, 17:49:33 pmWhere the hell has Boris dissapeared to again?
James O'Brien was speculating today that as well as taking away your sense of smell, perhaps Coronavirus also makes you invisible.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Nïckslïkk2112 on May 19, 2020, 20:28:11 pm
Quote from: Bez on May 19, 2020, 16:55:16 pmTwat
Thank you kindly.

Mrs S happens to work in a school. The headmistress there would willingly open up asap, she wasn't happy about shutting down either.
Schools have to reopen at some point. It can't be put off forever. Start small and ramp It up.

Lots of people have had to carry working all through the COVID19 crisis and IIRC before "Lockdown" 20% of Teachers were self isolating. Grauniad agrees

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2020/mar/17/schools-across-england-struggle-as-coronavirus-hits-attendance

Compare the armed forces with 10% self isolation

https://www.ft.com/content/ec757cbe-4c0a-48c6-95df-cf08ff86676b
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Matt2112 on May 19, 2020, 22:28:51 pm
Quote from: Bez on May 19, 2020, 16:53:59 pmSomewhat short sighted as they'll be adding additional year groups over the coming weks, so the "spare" classrooms won't be available...
Isn't the idea to phase in the additional year groups sort of in inverse proportion to the "R rate"/threat level..?

Incidentally, I see Teflon Tony has stuck his oar in - siding with Boris!
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Nïckslïkk2112 on May 19, 2020, 22:47:35 pm
Quote from: Matt2112 on May 19, 2020, 22:28:51 pmIncidentally, I see Teflon Tony has stuck his oar in - siding with Boris!
Then we are doomed... :(
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Bez on May 20, 2020, 08:53:06 am
Quote from: Nïckslïkk2112 on May 19, 2020, 20:28:11 pmThank you kindly.

Mrs S happens to work in a school. The headmistress there would willingly open up asap, she wasn't happy about shutting down either.
Schools have to reopen at some point. It can't be put off forever. Start small and ramp It up.

Lots of people have had to carry working all through the COVID19 crisis and IIRC before "Lockdown" 20% of Teachers were self isolating. Grauniad agrees

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2020/mar/17/schools-across-england-struggle-as-coronavirus-hits-attendance

Compare the armed forces with 10% self isolation

https://www.ft.com/content/ec757cbe-4c0a-48c6-95df-cf08ff86676b
I'll take the points one at a time.

1. Anytime. If the cap fits....
2. Many schools aren't closed. They're providing "babysitting" services for "vulnerable" children and for the children of key workers.
3. That doesn't make it right - or safe.
4. I'm not sure of the relevance of your point around the self isolation figures of teachers compared to the armed forces?
Armed forces are younger (less at risk if they do contract COVID-19) and fitter (less at risk if they do contract COVID-19) than teachers ("generally" older, more unfit (proportionally more at risk if they contract COVD-19) and therefore less at risk.
Generally they've signed up to put themselves at risk. This can be in the form of defending the realm in an armed conflict or at the behest of the government in times of national need (COVID, ambulance strikes, civil unrest etc etc)
I could add that your "average squaddie" is less intelligent than your "average" teacher and doesn't have the benefit of trade union backing
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: zoony on May 20, 2020, 11:37:42 am
Quote from: Nïckslïkk2112 on May 19, 2020, 20:28:11 pmSchools have to reopen at some point. 
Agreed Simmers, but there's no way we're ready at the moment, not with the way the jokers who are trying to handle this crisis are performing.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Nïckslïkk2112 on May 20, 2020, 11:51:41 am
Quote from: Bez on May 20, 2020, 08:53:06 amI'll take the points one at a time.

1. Anytime. If the cap fits....
2. Many schools aren't closed. They're providing "babysitting" services for "vulnerable" children and for the children of key workers.
3. That doesn't make it right - or safe.
4. I'm not sure of the relevance of your point around the self isolation figures of teachers compared to the armed forces?
Armed forces are younger (less at risk if they do contract COVID-19) and fitter (less at risk if they do contract COVID-19) than teachers ("generally" older, more unfit (proportionally more at risk if they contract COVD-19) and therefore less at risk.
Generally they've signed up to put themselves at risk. This can be in the form of defending the realm in an armed conflict or at the behest of the government in times of national need (COVID, ambulance strikes, civil unrest etc etc)
I could add that your "average squaddie" is less intelligent than your "average" teacher and doesn't have the benefit of trade union backing
1. That'll have to be two hats
2. I know full well that many schools are open, Mrs S works in one. OK she may only be receptionist, but she's also clerk to governors.
3. Schools do have to open at some point. Best to start small and work up. Yes, there are risks. There are always risks, whether COVID 19 is here or not. Evidence can be found that children are not the most efficient spreaders of COVID19.
As soon as carpet shops open up again, I'll be back in the office,
4. OK, I'll come clean, I have a complete downer on teachers, I'm saying that they're much more likely to swing the lead than the average squaddie, squaddies who spend more time in close proximity to others than teachers. These days lots of teachers are on the young side too - they're cheaper to employ. I'm not too sure that the "average" teacher is that intelligent, maybe they know something about the subjects they teach, but they don't seem to have much let's say "worldly" intelligence about them*

* See point 2 and Mrs S's job. She tells me things that she really shouldn't. Luckily for her, I'm the original social distancer so things will not get passed on.

My main point is, the country is being opened up for work again. This includes teaching, if anything I would say more thought is going into reopening the "education" system than the productive world.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: captainkurtz on May 20, 2020, 12:55:27 pm
Well...Cambridge University have confirmed no face-to-face-lectures for the next academic year....will have a massive effect on the hospitality, leisure and local business infrastructure there....
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: pdw1 on May 20, 2020, 15:33:23 pm
Quote from: captainkurtz on May 20, 2020, 12:55:27 pmWell...Cambridge University have confirmed no face-to-face-lectures for the next academic year....will have a massive effect on the hospitality, leisure and local business infrastructure there....
No No No No
The press has got completely the wrong end of the stick.

The university is doing everything possible to have the students here in Cambridge in October.  If social distancing rules at the time stop large gatherings then the lectures will have to be online. The rest of the teaching (classes, tutorials, libraries) will be open and run as normal.  All this is in the planning stage: we dont know what things will be like in 2 weeks time when schools may re-open let alone in over 4 months time.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Slim on May 20, 2020, 17:09:12 pm
I can understand the concern over kids going back to school and I don't have any myself, so it's easy for me to opine either way. But I was encouraged to hear Dr Chris Smith, the consultant virologist, say that he thought it was safe. The key is that the virus is now in sufficiently low circulation in the community in general that it should be safe by June, or so he said.

So it's not just the politicians who take that view. I've heard today that COVID cases are down 99% in London now.

Meanwhile I thought this was interesting, from the European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control:


(http://truth.justdied.com/images/covid_care_deaths.jpg)

It's been a serious problem everywhere, even in Germany which has rightly been lauded for its handling of the pandemic. But in the UK we've done brilliantly well.

I don't think you'll see this mentioned on the BBC.

Anyway I'm starting to feel optimistic. Hope everyone else is.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: captainkurtz on May 20, 2020, 18:33:39 pm
Quote from: pdw1 on May 20, 2020, 15:33:23 pmNo No No No
The press has got completely the wrong end of the stick.

The university is doing everything possible to have the students here in Cambridge in October.  If social distancing rules at the time stop large gatherings then the lectures will have to be online. The rest of the teaching (classes, tutorials, libraries) will be open and run as normal.  All this is in the planning stage: we dont know what things will be like in 2 weeks time when schools may re-open let alone in over 4 months time.
The press have said there's no face to face lectures and other things, like small seminars, will happen if social distancing will allow.  Honestly?  If I had a place at Cambridge, I'd be deferring.

I hope things change enough for this to be reversed and for the new intake to get their inductions/freshers week and all the rest of it...
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on May 20, 2020, 19:05:59 pm
Quote from: Slim on May 20, 2020, 17:09:12 pmI can understand the concern over kids going back to school and I don't have any myself, so it's easy for me to opine either way. But I was encouraged to hear Dr Chris Smith, the consultant virologist, say that he thought it was safe. The key is that the virus is now in sufficiently low circulation in the community in general that it should be safe by June, or so he said.

So it's not just the politicians who take that view. I've heard today that COVID cases are down 99% in London now.

Meanwhile I thought this was interesting, from the European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control:


(http://truth.justdied.com/images/covid_care_deaths.jpg)

It's been a serious problem everywhere, even in Germany which has rightly been lauded for its handling of the pandemic. But in the UK we've done brilliantly well.

I don't think you'll see this mentioned on the BBC.

Anyway I'm starting to feel optimistic. Hope everyone else is.
Only 20 deaths in UK care homes - can't be right ;)
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on May 20, 2020, 21:02:00 pm
Quote from: DavidL on May 20, 2020, 19:05:59 pmOnly 20 deaths in UK care homes - can't be right ;)
The graph does look a bit suspect, but if this does, in the fullness of time, prove to be true, I will be really surprised. The one caveat I would give is  that the figures appear to be based on deaths attributed to Covid rather than excess deaths in Care Homes for the time period?

But put that to one side,  in this instance, the government actually used the advance warning it had to good use
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on May 21, 2020, 09:54:46 am
Looks like Johnson's dithering at the outset of the crisis has had a devestating impact.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/05/20/earlier-lockdown-could-have-prevented-three-quarters-uk-coronavirus/
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Bisto on May 21, 2020, 13:56:20 pm
Quote from: döm on May 21, 2020, 09:54:46 amLooks like Johnson's dithering at the outset of the crisis has had a devestating impact.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/05/20/earlier-lockdown-could-have-prevented-three-quarters-uk-coronavirus/
There was an article a few weeks back where somebody wrote about BJ being absolutely fascinated by the Greek word or phrase that translates as (something like); "not doing something you know to be the ethically right thing to do"...not sure if it was serious or satirical but he's certainly chosen not to do the right/sensible/expedient thing to do on numerous occasions both before and since becoming PM.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: zoony on May 21, 2020, 18:35:06 pm
I see that they've backtracked on the NHS surcharge for overseas workers working for the NHS, and also care workers. Probably due to the slaying Boris was getting off Piers Morgan about it this morning. Apparently Boris has been quoted as saying that this surcharge has brought in £900 million, but it was announced on the news before the update this afternoon that the true figure was actually £35 million. More big lies then!
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Nick on May 21, 2020, 21:50:38 pm
Quote from: zoony on May 21, 2020, 18:35:06 pm. More big lies then!
Just wait for the Brexit sh*t to hit the fan in a couple of months.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on May 21, 2020, 23:52:12 pm
Quote from: zoony on May 21, 2020, 18:35:06 pmI see that they've backtracked on the NHS surcharge for overseas workers working for the NHS, and also care workers. Probably due to the slaying Boris was getting off Piers Morgan about it this morning. Apparently Boris has been quoted as saying that this surcharge has brought in £900 million, but it was announced on the news before the update this afternoon that the true figure was actually £35 million. More big lies then!
Yes, this crisis is producing an alarming number of 'untruths' from government.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Slim on May 22, 2020, 00:03:02 am
Quote from: zoony on May 21, 2020, 18:35:06 pmI see that they've backtracked on the NHS surcharge for overseas workers working for the NHS, and also care workers. Probably due to the slaying Boris was getting off Piers Morgan about it this morning. Apparently Boris has been quoted as saying that this surcharge has brought in £900 million, but it was announced on the news before the update this afternoon that the true figure was actually £35 million. More big lies then!

What actually happened is that a significant number of Tory backbenchers wanted him to change his mind, and when you have a government with an 80 seat majority that tends to be where the real opposition comes from - your own back benches. Whether it's really in the national interest I rather doubt, but fair play to the PM for defending that over narrow party interest before his own MPs twisted his arm.

Keir did show a bit of class and dignity in responding to the change of plan, I have to say. I'm sure an earlier Labour leader I can think of would have claimed a huge victory and told us he was in charge.

There are a few competing figures going around for what this will cost. The IFS claims £90 million, so I guess that £35 million figure must have been a big lie then. What the PM's spokesman said was that the scheme had raised £900 million since it was launched in 2015. Perhaps that £90 million figure is the current yearly value. I don't know. Or care really, it seems to be done and dusted now.

As for the Brexit shit hitting the fan - I've heard that one before.

Back on topic I was pleased that today's UK death toll, grim though it may be, continued the downward trend. I'd love to know what caused that upward kink earlier in the month. VE Day?

(http://truth.justdied.com/images/death200521.png)
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Slim on May 22, 2020, 00:05:35 am
Quote from: DavidL on May 21, 2020, 23:52:12 pmYes, this crisis is producing an alarming number of 'untruths' from government.
I haven't noticed any so far. What I have noticed is journos in the mainstream media and opposition party figures playing fast and loose with the truth, to try and spin that impression.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Matt2112 on May 22, 2020, 01:41:57 am
I was casually looking at a potential short break to Athens in August, then some chap on BBC News appeared, reporting from Athens.

The Acropolis has re-opened for visitors and Greece will next month be able to welcome international travellers - provided their point of departure is a country with a sufficiently low "R" rating.  So, ours is, like, 0.2, right...?  :D ;)
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on May 22, 2020, 08:49:41 am
Quote from: DavidL on May 21, 2020, 23:52:12 pmYes, this crisis is producing an alarming number of 'untruths' from government.
More or Less on BBC Radio 4 did an excellent analysis of the daily testing figures put out by the Government.

Well worth a listen....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p08dnd81
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Nick on May 22, 2020, 12:17:32 pm
Slim - are you happy that the testing figures are being counted as double?  - 1 person nasal and oral swab = 2 tests according to the gov.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on May 22, 2020, 13:08:06 pm
Quote from: Nick on May 22, 2020, 12:17:32 pmSlim - are you happy that the testing figures are being counted as double?  - 1 person nasal and oral swab = 2 tests according to the gov.
It's as if their goal is to destroy trust. If this is some cunning plan to prove their competence.........I'm struggling to see it.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on May 22, 2020, 13:40:56 pm
Quote from: döm on May 22, 2020, 08:49:41 amMore or Less on BBC Radio 4 did an excellent analysis of the daily testing figures put out by the Government.

Well worth a listen....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p08dnd81
Comprehensively destroys the notion that the 'minister for missed targets' hit his "100,000 tests carried out per day by May 1st".
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Nick on May 22, 2020, 15:52:47 pm
Quote from: DavidL on May 22, 2020, 13:40:56 pmComprehensively destroys the notion that the 'minister for missed targets' hit his "100,000 tests carried out per day by May 1st".
Boris promised 200k per day by the end of the month.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on May 22, 2020, 16:07:08 pm
Quote from: Nick on May 22, 2020, 15:52:47 pmBoris promised 200k per day by the end of the month.
No doubt that will be manipulated to indicate success too! Each nostril, perhaps! ;D
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: zoony on May 22, 2020, 18:23:37 pm
Quote from: Nick on May 21, 2020, 21:50:38 pmJust wait for the Brexit sh*t to hit the fan in a couple of months.
That won't kill anyone though.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Slim on May 22, 2020, 18:35:56 pm
Quote from: Nick on May 22, 2020, 12:17:32 pmSlim - are you happy that the testing figures are being counted as double?  - 1 person nasal and oral swab = 2 tests according to the gov.
You've actually described two tests, Nick. I'm glad that the government can count to two.

But if you think that the government has missed targets for testing, that's because it set extremely high targets. If it had set a target of (say) 50k tests per day then it would have smashed them, but that wouldn't mean that more people would have been tested, or that we'd be any further down the road to beating this virus.

I am happy, and pleased, that the government's performance on testing has been exceptional in the circumstances it has had to deal with - like the rest of its efforts in this godawful crisis.

Heard the BBC suggesting this morning, quite carefully, while avoiding spelling out its lie explicitly, that the government had ignored advice from SAGE on the timing of the lockdown. The actual truth of this is that the person whose opinion is being represented here was not a member of SAGE at the time, and I have no reason whatever to believe that the government disregarded or discounted any legitimate scientific advice, at any stage.

Anyway. Slightly disappointed with today's death toll figure, which brings the 7-day moving average down very modestly, from 346.86 to 342.14.

Have a good long weekend everyone.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Slim on May 22, 2020, 18:36:29 pm
Quote from: zoony on May 22, 2020, 18:23:37 pmThat won't kill anyone though.
Gutting that the Brexit dividend has been frittered away in an economic crisis, though.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Richard_2112 on May 22, 2020, 21:59:17 pm
Laughing at the ignorance on display here. I've actually had one of these tests and you have to use the same cotton swab to do throat and nose which then goes into one test solution tube and it can't come back as a conclusive test if both areas haven't been done, ergo; it is one test with two components. If the government are counting both components to the test as one separate test then they are wilfully lying about the number of tests being done.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Nïckslïkk2112 on May 22, 2020, 22:40:22 pm
Quote from: Richard_2112 on May 22, 2020, 21:59:17 pmLaughing at the ignorance on display here. I've actually had one of these tests and you have to use the same cotton swab to do throat and nose which then goes into one test solution tube and it can't come back as a conclusive test if both areas haven't been done, ergo; it is one test with two components. If the government are counting both components to the test as one separate test then they are wilfully lying about the number of tests being done.
But is that counted as two? Are you sure? Do you know that for certain? Are you sure that you aren't ignorant?
It appears that there are various types of swab tests

QuoteCurrent Public Health England guidance (https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/866632/COVID-19_Sample_Packaging_Instructions_PHE_A3_poster_12.pdf) advises samples from the upper respiratory tract should be sought as EITHER:
  •         individual nose and throat swabs in separate collection tubes
  •         combined nose and throat swab in one collection tube containing universal transport medium
  •         single swab used for throat then nose
  •         nasopharyngeal aspirate

The government, composed as it is of politicians - i.e. people who wouldn't know the truth if Big John Wayne socked them on the jaw with it - will play fast and loose with semantics,
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: captainkurtz on May 23, 2020, 10:51:53 am
Surprised that Cummings has no one in the capital who can offer child care services.  Maybe no one wants to assist because he seems a bit of a c***?
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on May 23, 2020, 11:22:20 am
Quote from: Slim on May 22, 2020, 18:35:56 pmYou've actually described two tests, Nick. I'm glad that the government can count to two.

But if you think that the government has missed targets for testing, that's because it set extremely high targets. If it had set a target of (say) 50k tests per day then it would have smashed them, but that wouldn't mean that more people would have been tested, or that we'd be any further down the road to beating this virus.

I am happy, and pleased, that the government's performance on testing has been exceptional in the circumstances it has had to deal with - like the rest of its efforts in this godawful crisis.

Heard the BBC suggesting this morning, quite carefully, while avoiding spelling out its lie explicitly, that the government had ignored advice from SAGE on the timing of the lockdown. The actual truth of this is that the person whose opinion is being represented here was not a member of SAGE at the time, and I have no reason whatever to believe that the government disregarded or discounted any legitimate scientific advice, at any stage.

Anyway. Slightly disappointed with today's death toll figure, which brings the 7-day moving average down very modestly, from 346.86 to 342.14.

Have a good long weekend everyone.
When you can make up the figures as you go along and decide that anything you like can count as testing, you can set whatever target you'd like and reach it. All very Big Brother.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Nïckslïkk2112 on May 23, 2020, 13:44:05 pm
Nice to see Alastair Campbell calling the Government defence of Cummings  "utter hypocrisy". What's left of my brain has just imploded.

The trouble with the lockdown rules is that they are rules not laws.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Slim on May 23, 2020, 14:55:51 pm
Quote from: döm on May 23, 2020, 11:22:20 amWhen you can make up the figures as you go along and decide that anything you like can count as testing, you can set whatever target you'd like and reach it. All very Big Brother.
You'll continue to believe the interpretation that suits you best, I'm sure. But your "anything you like" caricature is demonstrable nonsense, so for the sake of your own self-respect I suggest that a little bit of flexibility and caution when you make these things up would help (imo). Would have another look through your own forum signature and give it a bit of thought. I don't know what the interest rate on porkies is at the moment.

Mixed feelings about Dominic Cummings. I do very much like and admire the man, and I profoundly respect and appreciate what he's done for our party and my country. I must admit that my judgement about his behaviour in this is informed by that.

A few thoughts, though - firstly while a strict interpretation of the lockdown rules might suggest that he broke them, as we explored at the very outset of this grim episode, there must be room for common sense and a recognition for particular circumstances, and in this case he decided that the welfare of his young child was at risk.

I see that No 10 has now issued a statement:

"Owing to his wife being infected with suspected coronavirus and the high likelihood that he would himself become unwell, it was essential for Dominic Cummings to ensure his young child could be properly cared for.

His sister and nieces had volunteered to help so he went to a house near to but separate from his extended family in case their help was needed. His sister shopped for the family and left everything outside.

At no stage was he or his family spoken to by the police about this matter, as is being reported. His actions were in line with coronavirus guidelines. Mr Cummings believes he behaved reasonably and legally"

I find that wholly satisfactory, myself. I bear in mind also that he isn't a government minister, nor even an MP - nor has he to the best of my knowledge broken any law.

Whether sanity will prevail and he'll survive though, I don't know. I can only hope so, not only in the interest of preserving the distinguished career of a very noble man, but more importantly in our national interest, and for our children's futures.

Absolutely despicable that the left-wing media and opposition are more interested in a bit of spite to make themselves feel a bit better for the righteous kicking that the British People wisely gave them in December, than the actual realities of the public health emergency we find ourselves in.

But as I've said before: the heroes in this like Boris Johnson and Matt Hancock will be remembered for a very long time.

And so will the villains.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: captainkurtz on May 23, 2020, 15:43:32 pm
Might have been an idea him making a statement at the time, for surely he would have realised it would have been picked up by the media, no?

It does sound like a steaming pile of turd to me, though.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on May 23, 2020, 16:22:23 pm
The testing figures are being massaged to suit the Government and they are stretching credibility to its very limit.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: zoony on May 23, 2020, 16:50:48 pm
Quote from: Slim on May 23, 2020, 14:55:51 pmBut as I've said before: the heroes in this like Boris Johnson and Matt Hancock will be remembered for a very long time.


I won't argue with you that they'll certainly be remembered for a long time. I'm really struggling with the heroes bit though...
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on May 23, 2020, 21:45:53 pm
Embarrassing watching what appears to be the whole cabinet defending Dominic Cummings actions. Unedifying and embarrassing. No idea why they would want to defend him. I think he should have let them know that there was more and perhaps they would have had second thoughts ...

https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2020/may/23/new-witnesses-cast-doubt-on-dominic-cummingss-lockdown-claims
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: BasspedalMan on May 23, 2020, 22:18:40 pm
Quote from: zoony on May 23, 2020, 16:50:48 pmI won't argue with you that they'll certainly be remembered for a long time. I'm really struggling with the heroes bit though...
Notwithstanding the fact that the Government has tried hard to support business and jobs there can be no doubt that the likes of Johnson, DEMONIC Raab and SHITTI Patel are hopelessly out of their depth even THINKING about the wider common good. They are such a bunch of self-serving parasites that it must be killing them to think of all this public money going to actual people in the general populace. The fact that they would even CONSIDER charging foreign nationals who work in the NHS and CARE to use the NHS tells you all you need to know about their Dogmatic approach to politics. They do not represent me!!
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: pdw1 on May 24, 2020, 01:10:23 am
Quote from: Slim on May 23, 2020, 14:55:51 pmA few thoughts, though - firstly while a strict interpretation of the lockdown rules might suggest that he broke them, as we explored at the very outset of this grim episode, there must be room for common sense and a recognition for particular circumstances, and in this case he decided that the welfare of his young child was at risk.

I see that No 10 has now issued a statement:

"Owing to his wife being infected with suspected coronavirus and the high likelihood that he would himself become unwell, it was essential for Dominic Cummings to ensure his young child could be properly cared for.

His sister and nieces had volunteered to help so he went to a house near to but separate from his extended family in case their help was needed. His sister shopped for the family and left everything outside.

At no stage was he or his family spoken to by the police about this matter, as is being reported. His actions were in line with coronavirus guidelines. Mr Cummings believes he behaved reasonably and legally"

I find that wholly satisfactory, myself. I bear in mind also that he isn't a government minister, nor even an MP - nor has he to the best of my knowledge broken any law.

Whether sanity will prevail and he'll survive though, I don't know. I can only hope so, not only in the interest of preserving the distinguished career of a very noble man, but more importantly in our national interest, and for our children's futures.

Absolutely despicable that the left-wing media and opposition are more interested in a bit of spite to make themselves feel a bit better for the righteous kicking that the British People wisely gave them in December, than the actual realities of the public health emergency we find ourselves in.

But as I've said before: the heroes in this like Boris Johnson and Matt Hancock will be remembered for a very long time.

And so will the villains.

So the question now is was Dominic Cummings lying to Boris Johnson or was Boris Johnson lying to the great british public because the whole of that statement is horse manure.

With heroes like that who needs enemies.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: andyhaines on May 24, 2020, 10:28:12 am
Quote from: Slim on May 23, 2020, 14:55:51 pmYou'll continue to believe the interpretation that suits you best, I'm sure. But your "anything you like" caricature is demonstrable nonsense, so for the sake of your own self-respect I suggest that a little bit of flexibility and caution when you make these things up would help (imo). Would have another look through your own forum signature and give it a bit of thought. I don't know what the interest rate on porkies is at the moment.

Mixed feelings about Dominic Cummings. I do very much like and admire the man, and I profoundly respect and appreciate what he's done for our party and my country. I must admit that my judgement about his behaviour in this is informed by that.

A few thoughts, though - firstly while a strict interpretation of the lockdown rules might suggest that he broke them, as we explored at the very outset of this grim episode, there must be room for common sense and a recognition for particular circumstances, and in this case he decided that the welfare of his young child was at risk.

I see that No 10 has now issued a statement:

"Owing to his wife being infected with suspected coronavirus and the high likelihood that he would himself become unwell, it was essential for Dominic Cummings to ensure his young child could be properly cared for.

His sister and nieces had volunteered to help so he went to a house near to but separate from his extended family in case their help was needed. His sister shopped for the family and left everything outside.

At no stage was he or his family spoken to by the police about this matter, as is being reported. His actions were in line with coronavirus guidelines. Mr Cummings believes he behaved reasonably and legally"

I find that wholly satisfactory, myself. I bear in mind also that he isn't a government minister, nor even an MP - nor has he to the best of my knowledge broken any law.

Whether sanity will prevail and he'll survive though, I don't know. I can only hope so, not only in the interest of preserving the distinguished career of a very noble man, but more importantly in our national interest, and for our children's futures.

Absolutely despicable that the left-wing media and opposition are more interested in a bit of spite to make themselves feel a bit better for the righteous kicking that the British People wisely gave them in December, than the actual realities of the public health emergency we find ourselves in.

But as I've said before: the heroes in this like Boris Johnson and Matt Hancock will be remembered for a very long time.

And so will the villains.

I rarely come on here anymore, but it's reassuring to find that you are now an expert on fatherhood, along with every other subject known to man/woman. Plus ca change...
 :)
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: pdw1 on May 24, 2020, 10:45:36 am
Quote from: andyhaines on May 24, 2020, 10:28:12 amI rarely come on here anymore, but it's reassuring to find that you are now an expert on fatherhood, along with every other subject known to man/woman. Plus ca change...
 :)
Come back Andy, there's more than Coranovirus here. Tell us about your favourite Rush songs; vote in the lock down ballot.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on May 24, 2020, 10:50:29 am
Another huge mistake from Boris and most of the upper echelons in backing Cummings. Trust amongst the public is unravelling pretty quickly now. You can't continually bang on about how important it is to follow the rules and then make exceptions when it suits.
I think Boris has squandered a pretty unassailable position in his handling of Covid-19. That's a shame, after such a solid start.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on May 24, 2020, 11:44:58 am
If, as Slim has previously implied, the government is being held to account more by its own back benches than the opposition, Cummings may ultimately be ousted as there are many in that part of the house that dislike him.
If this is the case, the damage inflicted will be considerably greater than it would have been if swift, decisive action had been taken initially. Boris seems to plotting his own downfall at the moment.
I'm disappointed with the Tories, too many missteps and own goals. What, initially appeared to be a government intent on restoring some common sense to the running of the country has been found lacking. Boris would never have been my choice (once a clown, always a clown) but he seemed to assemble a pretty capable team around himself, including a tough-talking Home Secretary that made all the right noises and promised to do the right thing for the UK. However, even her talk has turned out to be hollow as we continue to let hundreds of illegals into our country every month whilst failing to deport foreign criminals.
As I said, what a shame.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Nïckslïkk2112 on May 24, 2020, 12:10:40 pm
Quote from: pdw1 on May 24, 2020, 10:45:36 amCome back Andy, there's more than Coranovirus here. Tell us about your favourite Rush songs; vote in the lock down ballot.
There's no Coranovirus anywhere :)

Oh, Cummings should step down - not that he'll disappear - as did the Scottish health spokesman and Neil Ferguson. Although, all what they needed was a sever censuring, these "Lockdown" rules are just rules, not law.

I do wonder though, how many people out there are living in Glass Houses. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Matt2112 on May 24, 2020, 12:21:27 pm
Think many are being unfair; as suggested above, Cummings HAD to travel 260 miles before he could find someone who doesn't think he's a cnut.

And judging by the conceited, deluded drivel his spouse churns out in The Spectator, they are very well suited.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Matt2112 on May 24, 2020, 12:26:53 pm
Quote from: Nïckslïkk2112 on May 24, 2020, 12:10:40 pmthese "Lockdown" rules are just rules, not law.
Yet there are laws in place so that breaches can be penalised.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: pdw1 on May 24, 2020, 13:57:17 pm
Quote from: Matt2112 on May 24, 2020, 12:21:27 pmThink many are being unfair; as suggested above, Cummings HAD to travel 260 miles before he could find someone who doesn't think he's a cnut.

And judging by the conceited, deluded drivel his spouse churns out in The Spectator, they are very well suited.

It seems even then he couldn't find anyone and he and wife had to continue looking after their child.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: captainkurtz on May 24, 2020, 14:16:47 pm
It's being reported his sister in law lives close by in London.  Doesn't really matter - we all know the story is a big pile of shit.  He should be gone before Monday morning.  This government is a fecking shambles.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Slim on May 24, 2020, 14:31:20 pm
Quote from: captainkurtz on May 24, 2020, 14:16:47 pmIt's being reported his sister in law lives close by in London.  Doesn't really matter - we all know the story is a big pile of shit.  He should be gone before Monday morning.  This government is a fecking shambles.

I'm disappointed to see that you've been taken in, because that suggests that many others may have been as well. I'm very pleased to be able to say that this is the most capable and talented government I've known since the early '80s, and it's awful to see comments like yours at the very moment that it has performed so valiantly and exceptionally in one of the greatest national crises I can remember. Heroes, all.

Meanwhile a few backbenchers are rustling uncomfortably in their seats at the hostility in the press, so it looks like his position may be uncertain:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-52789404

That's the state of the opposition and the left-leaning press now, I'm afraid. Much, much more interested in a bit of revenge against a noble and talented young man who has coontributed so much to our national life than (say) the small matter of the dramatic efforts being taken to defend against a global pandemic.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Slim on May 24, 2020, 14:31:58 pm
Quote from: zoony on May 23, 2020, 16:50:48 pmI won't argue with you that they'll certainly be remembered for a long time. I'm really struggling with the heroes bit though...
I know you are. No worries.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Slim on May 24, 2020, 14:34:04 pm
Quote from: Matt2112 on May 24, 2020, 12:21:27 pmThink many are being unfair; as suggested above, Cummings HAD to travel 260 miles before he could find someone who doesn't think he's a cnut.
Can you say why you think Dominic Cummings is a "cnut"?

You really, really wanted the establishment to spit in the faces of millions of ordinary people, by denying them the justice of a referendum result being honoured - and he wouldn't let them? Does it boil down to that?
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Slim on May 24, 2020, 14:37:14 pm
This from Downing Street:

"Yesterday the Mirror and Guardian wrote inaccurate stories about Mr Cummings.

"Today they are writing more inaccurate stories including claims that Mr Cummings returned to Durham after returning to work in Downing Street on 14 April.

"We will not waste our time answering a stream of false allegations about Mr Cummings from campaigning newspapers."


You're literally being lied to by the libtard press. Don't just sip it up without a second thought like so much lukewarm diarhhea.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on May 24, 2020, 15:01:28 pm
Someone is lying. That's for sure!
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: captainkurtz on May 24, 2020, 15:23:23 pm
Quote from: Slim on May 24, 2020, 14:31:20 pmI'm disappointed to see that you've been taken in, because that suggests that many others may have been as well. 
Does he not have a sister in law in the capital, then?
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on May 24, 2020, 15:33:49 pm
Quote from: captainkurtz on May 24, 2020, 15:23:23 pmDoes he not have a sister in law in the capital, then?
Unless the Daily Express confirms it, it's certainly a lie
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Matt2112 on May 24, 2020, 16:36:01 pm
Quote from: Slim on May 24, 2020, 14:34:04 pmCan you say why you think Dominic Cummings is a "cnut"?
Can you say where I've said that?

You don't have to go further than Tory MPs to find open disdain about Cummings's character; I daresay their relationship to him is clearly far, far closer than any of us posting here, so perhaps you might direct your question to them, and help clear up your party's mess?
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Nïckslïkk2112 on May 24, 2020, 16:43:40 pm
Has to laugh when reading the BBC coverage of COVID19, there was a bit by some doctor saying that the virus can survive on petrol pumps. The article then said "It is unkown if Dominic Cummins stopped to refuel when he drove to the North East"

As an aside, the former chief constable of Durham says
Quote from: undefinedLet's not beat around bush. I am making really clear - 40 years of policing understanding the law and interpreting the law
Is it within the Police's remit to interpret the law? Is he just after his fifteen minutes of fame?
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on May 24, 2020, 17:10:02 pm
Quote from: Nïckslïkk2112 on May 24, 2020, 16:43:40 pmHas to laugh when reading the BBC coverage of COVID19, there was a bit by some doctor saying that the virus can survive on petrol pumps. The article then said "It is unkown if Dominic Cummins stopped to refuel when he drove to the North East"
::) ::)
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on May 24, 2020, 18:18:56 pm
"Ignorance is Strength"
"War is Peace"
"Freedom Is Slavery"
"Cummings has acted responsibly, legally, and with integrity and with the overall aim of stopping the spread of the virus and saving lives".

Welcome to Airstrip One. 36 years later than George Orwell predicted but we made it!
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: zoony on May 24, 2020, 18:28:28 pm
Johnson has actually shown his face at today's coronavirus briefing, for a change, and hes started by defending Cummings, so that's the end of that by the look of it. Been out and about on my walks in our local beauty spots this weekend, and as I feared there were a lot of visitors about, god knows where they have come from. I just don't see no sense in letting this happen at the moment when we still haven't found a vaccine. Another thing I have been thinking about is all these people who are visiting seaside towns and other places of interest where there are no public conveniences open, where are they going to do there business then? Also, the local bus service around here has announced that from tomorrow, there will only be a maximum of 9 people allowed on their large buses to maintain safe social distancing, when people are now being encouraged to go back to work, while in the weeks previous, there were no limits in place on the buses? You couldn't make it up.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Matt2112 on May 24, 2020, 19:03:12 pm
As long as the numbers are going down, and the restrictions are being relaxed in the phased manner they are, then all in all things happening out in the field don't appear to be catastrophic.  That can change of course, but on balance I'm optimistic things will continue to improve (and I can book that trip to Greece).

As for our friend Cummings, well...he may be an odious character, however, I want to throw this out to the floor: can anyone point to a cast-iron, water-tight, viable alternative to his chosen child welfare and safeguarding arrangements?  Full disclosure: I have a four-year-old child; I have local options should her mother and/or I become symptomatic. But what if I didn't?
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on May 24, 2020, 19:25:36 pm
Matt he could have done what all his neighbours were required to do and stay home. He then could have linked in with a local support group... e.g.

@GuileneMarco

Hi Dominic Cummings, you're an Islington resident. Did you know, we have a wonderful network of Mutual Aid groups supporting residents self-isolating with C-19? We can do shopping, pick-up prescription, even walk your dog.

We support everyone no matter who they are.

The whole population would have been wrong to do what he did. But for the Chief Policy advisor, a man intrinsically linked to the guidelines that everyone is supposed to abide by, to travel the length of the country with Covid symptoms is absolutely a sacking offence.

Unless anyone can point to the "childcare" caveat?
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: The Old Dog on May 24, 2020, 19:59:52 pm
Quote from: döm on May 24, 2020, 19:25:36 pmMatt he could have done what all his neighbours were required to do and stay home. He then could have linked in with a local support group... e.g.

@GuileneMarco

Hi Dominic Cummings, you're an Islington resident. Did you know, we have a wonderful network of Mutual Aid groups supporting residents self-isolating with C-19? We can do shopping, pick-up prescription, even walk your dog.

We support everyone no matter who they are.

The whole population would have been wrong to do what he did. But for the Chief Policy advisor, a man intrinsically linked to the guidelines that everyone is supposed to abide by, to travel the length of the country with Covid symptoms is absolutely a sacking offence.

Unless anyone can point to the "childcare" caveat?
Absolute scum but then what do you expect from tories ..
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Matt2112 on May 24, 2020, 21:02:28 pm
Fine as it goes dom, however, where is the "childcare" provision from this support group, should both parents be very unwell?  And to whom should that be reasonably entrusted?  Because it surely can't be to some volunteer unfamiliar to a toddler.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: pdw1 on May 24, 2020, 22:30:31 pm
Quote from: The Old Dog on May 24, 2020, 19:59:52 pmAbsolute scum but then what do you expect from tories ..
That is no way to talk about Dom.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: pdw1 on May 24, 2020, 22:32:08 pm
Quote from: Matt2112 on May 24, 2020, 21:02:28 pmFine as it goes dom, however, where is the "childcare" provision from this support group, should both parents be very unwell?  And to whom should that be reasonably entrusted?  Because it surely can't be to some volunteer unfamiliar to a toddler.


Quote from: captainkurtz on May 24, 2020, 14:16:47 pmIt's being reported his sister in law lives close by in London.  Doesn't really matter - we all know the story is a big pile of shit.  He should be gone before Monday morning.  This government is a fecking shambles.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Nick on May 24, 2020, 22:37:18 pm
He didn't get any childcare in Durham.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Nïckslïkk2112 on May 24, 2020, 22:47:53 pm
Wouldn't surprise me if Cummings didn't have some dirt on the opposition - official or internal - I doubt if the word "Integrity" exists in the dictionary of anyone involved in politics these days.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Nïckslïkk2112 on May 24, 2020, 22:51:56 pm
Quote from: Matt2112 on May 24, 2020, 19:03:12 pmFull disclosure: I have a four-year-old child; I have local options should her mother and/or I become symptomatic. But what if I didn't?
Take a drive to Durham :)
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on May 24, 2020, 22:58:43 pm
Quote from: pdw1 on May 24, 2020, 22:30:31 pmThat is no way to talk about Dom.
Too right! No one has ever called me a Tory before!
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Slim on May 24, 2020, 23:01:15 pm
Apologies welcome - I will respond to them graciously.

(http://truth.justdied.com/images/harries_except.jpg)
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Slim on May 24, 2020, 23:01:52 pm
Quote from: döm on May 24, 2020, 22:58:43 pmToo right! No one has ever called me a Tory before!
It's never too late!
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: captainkurtz on May 24, 2020, 23:02:13 pm
Oh dear...cringeworthy footage of poor old Dom walking home and getting berated by what looks like a lot of his neighbours...hanging out of windows, following him down the street etc....

Good viewing!
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: pdw1 on May 24, 2020, 23:25:47 pm
Quote from: Slim on May 24, 2020, 23:01:15 pmApologies welcome - I will respond to them graciously.

(http://truth.justdied.com/images/harries_except.jpg)
And the 30 mile trip to Bernard Castle on 12th April?
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: pdw1 on May 24, 2020, 23:29:51 pm
Here is a time line of what Cummings got up to
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/may/24/dominic-cummings-timeline-what-we-know-about-his-movements

At least we now know he likes bluebells and Abba  ::)
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on May 24, 2020, 23:41:53 pm
Quote from: captainkurtz on May 24, 2020, 23:02:13 pmOh dear...cringeworthy footage of poor old Dom walking home and getting berated by what looks like a lot of his neighbours...hanging out of windows, following him down the street etc....

Good viewing!
No, they've been pleasant enough tonight. More fake news!

Slim that quote from  Jenny Harries was cut short. She finishes the sentence with  "if they don't have access to formal care support or family they will be able  to work with their local authority hub"

If the local authority hub recommended the trip to Durham then  he's in the clear (as long as he didn't visit castles and woods while he was there). Otherwise Ms Harries wasn't providing a get out of jail free card!
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Bisto on May 25, 2020, 01:08:23 am
Quote from: döm on May 24, 2020, 23:41:53 pmNo, they've been pleasant enough tonight. More fake news!

Slim that quote from  Jenny Harries was cut short. She finishes the sentence with  "if they don't have access to formal care support or family they will be able  to work with their local authority hub"

If the local authority hub recommended the trip to Durham then  he's in the clear (as long as he didn't visit castles and woods while he was there). Otherwise Ms Harries wasn't providing a get out of jail free card!
Probably visiting his mother on Mother's Day amongst other things
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: pdw1 on May 25, 2020, 01:37:35 am
Quote from: döm on May 24, 2020, 23:41:53 pmNo, they've been pleasant enough tonight. More fake news!

Slim that quote from  Jenny Harries was cut short. She finishes the sentence with  "if they don't have access to formal care support or family they will be able  to work with their local authority hub"

If the local authority hub recommended the trip to Durham then  he's in the clear (as long as he didn't visit castles and woods while he was there). Otherwise Ms Harries wasn't providing a get out of jail free card!

What Slim and Boris Johnson miss-representing the truth  :o Surely not. Never.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: pdw1 on May 25, 2020, 01:43:20 am
I think we should club together to get one of these for Slim

(https://www.redmolotov.com/image/cache/catalog/designslarge/d/dominic-cummings-lockdown-tour-tshirt_blacktshirt-1000x1000.jpg)
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: zoony on May 25, 2020, 10:09:24 am
It's subject to opinion whether you think Cummings did anything wrong or not, but with the amount of media coverage of the situation, why doesn't he just come out and apologise to say that perhaps he shouldn't have done it, as it looks like he's going to keep his job. Unfortunately it doesn't look like that will happen, as he's far too smug and arrogant for that. Sad state of affairs.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Matt2112 on May 25, 2020, 11:05:56 am
Quote from: zoony on May 25, 2020, 10:09:24 amIt's subject to opinion whether you think Cummings did anything wrong or not, but with the amount of media coverage of the situation, why doesn't he just come out and apologise to say that perhaps he shouldn't have done it, as it looks like he's going to keep his job. Unfortunately it doesn't look like that will happen, as he's far too smug and arrogant for that. Sad state of affairs.
This is the thing, will we ever know the actual version of events for sure?  I strongly doubt it.  So it's difficult if not impossible to make a definitive judgement.

Meanwhile, what we are now seeing every morning and do absolutely know for sure is the brazen hypocrisy of the media vultures forming what amounts to to a rugby scrum - some while wearing face masks! - and all getting right in Cummings's face in clear breach of lockdown rules; how about the righteously indignant in the self-appointed police force on FB and Twatter file complaints about that lot?

And now, possibly most ironic of all, and with a characteristically glaring absence of self-awareness, we've got a bunch of Bishops weighing in, in what looks like a coordinated Twatter campaign, which includes Bishop Nick Baines, who has always really fancied himself as some kind of intellectual Titan, saying: "do we accept being lied to, patronised and treated...as mugs".  This of course being a perfect summary of his own organisation's fundamental modus operandi. 

This whole backlash is creating only heat and no light.  If there's something that can nail Cummings beyond doubt then, fine, cast the snake out, but if not, just park the antipathy and move on.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on May 25, 2020, 11:57:21 am
The quickest way to end this is for Cummings to go. If this carries on it will do great harm to Johnson and I really don't understand why Cummings is still in place.

The whole story is so flaky. We were first told that the journey was necessary as he was getting his parents to look after the child. That is taking a child from a family suspected of having Covid to vulnerable people. Then it was his sister. Not vulnerable perhaps but still with the very real danger of passing Covid to another household. Then it developed further and the journey was necessary so they could have food delivered to their newly acquired doorstep!

The whole thing just reeks of BS and the real reason, it appears to me, that we'll never get to the truth is that it will clearly prove that Cummings broke the rules. Rules that he was partly responsible for putting together.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Nïckslïkk2112 on May 25, 2020, 12:11:28 pm
And now we have twats like this Doctor who says he will resign if Cummings doesn't. It's all so childish.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/its-a-betrayal-nhs-doctor-threatens-to-resign-if-dominic-cummings-does-not/ar-BB14xAIH?ocid=spartanntp

I'll have to start complaining about the bloke in scrubs who I see in Tesco every Friday. If he's a genuine health worker then he shouldn't be out in his working clothes either before or after a shift.

FWIW I'll admit to breaking the "Lockdown" rules. I went up to my dad's on Easter Sunday to fetch some Easter Eggs, then I went a couple of weeks later to fetch a bag of lour he'd bought for us. Although I always took a carrier bag with pasta and various other things in so I could say I was going to help a vulnerable family member. Which at 87 and with COPD he is. Not that he's on the shielding list.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on May 25, 2020, 18:26:13 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EY3_B2qXQAAD8Tv?format=jpg&name=900x900)
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on May 25, 2020, 18:34:12 pm
Now I've heard the account that Cummings has just given, I'm not sure he needs to go. I think he's probably done enough to save himself and help Boris weather the storm. Perhaps, I was too hasty to condemn but his actions were always going to cause trouble and undermine the government's message if they were made public. The majority of the people will not consider the nuance or minutiae of his situation that caused him to make the decisions he did. They just see an arrogant Tory flouting his own rules.
No doubt there is a huge amount of anger towards Cummings for the part he played in Brexit, within the media and the public at large, which is why they've gone after him like a pack of dogs.
There's no doubt, having seen his performance today, he is a shrewd operator. I can understand why he's so important to Boris.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on May 25, 2020, 18:42:55 pm
The stuff about driving to Barnard Castle to test his eyesight was pretty ludicrous to be fair.  And blaming the media rather than his own actions for this is pretty pathetic too.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: pdw1 on May 25, 2020, 18:50:42 pm
So the story is, technically under the letter of the law he is allowed to drive to Durham even if it is against the spirit of the lockdown so many people have obeyed but when he needed to test his eyesight it was ok even though it was against the letter of the law because he felt it was what he needed to do. You can't have it both ways.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Matt2112 on May 25, 2020, 18:52:41 pm
Fair play to the guy entering that arena.

There will be plenty who don't buy his story though, and will still think he's a ctun.

Still, Durham police via their statement today basically express no concerns.

Time to move on?
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on May 25, 2020, 19:02:08 pm
Quote from: Matt2112 on May 25, 2020, 18:52:41 pmFair play to the guy entering that arena.

There will be plenty who don't buy his story though, and will still think he's a ctun.

Still, Durham police via their statement today basically express no concerns.

Time to move on?
The journalists lengthy questioning session did remind me of the scene from Airplane when the queue of passengers are waiting to slap the hysterical woman in her seat.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on May 25, 2020, 19:07:23 pm
Quote from: döm on May 25, 2020, 19:02:08 pmThe journalists lengthy questioning session did remind me of the scene from Airplane when the queue of passengers are waiting to slap the hysterical woman in her seat.
The journalists' questioning was pathetic. They'd all compiled their questions earlier so it made little sense to ask them after the statement. The journos came out badly.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Matt2112 on May 25, 2020, 19:23:26 pm
Quote from: DavidL on May 25, 2020, 19:07:23 pmThe journalists' questioning was pathetic. They'd all compiled their questions earlier so it made little sense to ask them after the statement. The journos came out badly.
Everything they asked about was pre-empted and covered by the statement, so essentially they asked some pretty dumb questions all in all.

Kusenberg and Peston are desperate to achieve a "Gotcha" moment that gives them a kind of immortal journalistic hero status, however it's clear they should have stopped flogging that dead horse some time ago.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Matt2112 on May 25, 2020, 19:55:54 pm
One possible little nagging aspect those investigative journalist geniuses didn't pick up on was that it seemed "convenient" to the story that the little 'un apparently didn't require a pee-break on a 260-mile journey, but did require it on a 20-mile one.

Kids, eh?
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on May 25, 2020, 20:05:40 pm
Quote from: Matt2112 on May 25, 2020, 19:55:54 pmOne possible little nagging aspect those investigative journalist geniuses didn't pick up on was that it seemed "convenient" to the story that the little 'un apparently didn't require a pee-break on a 260-mile journey, but did require it on a 20-mile one.

Kids, eh?
Also can his wife drive? If so the need for a driving eye test would have been unnecessary
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on May 25, 2020, 20:06:36 pm
Good news from Ireland today. 0 deaths from Covid. Hopefully that continues
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Matt2112 on May 25, 2020, 20:40:16 pm
Quote from: döm on May 25, 2020, 20:05:40 pmAlso can his wife drive? If so the need for a driving eye test would have been unnecessary
Indeed, fair question.  Maybe she isn't/wasn't covered by insurance?

Which, yes, might then beg the question of DC's fitness, but he had already been given medical clearance (IIRC).
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Matt2112 on May 25, 2020, 20:41:43 pm
Quote from: döm on May 25, 2020, 20:06:36 pmGood news from Ireland today. 0 deaths from Covid. Hopefully that continues
Very, very pleased to hear that. 👍🏻
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: captainkurtz on May 25, 2020, 21:02:24 pm
Couldn't Downing Street have organised a car for them? 

He's full of shit.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Matt2112 on May 25, 2020, 22:13:38 pm
Quote from: captainkurtz on May 25, 2020, 21:02:24 pmCouldn't Downing Street have organised a car for them? 

He's full of shit.
Maybe - don't know...x 2! :)
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: captainkurtz on May 25, 2020, 22:44:02 pm
So a guy who's instrumental in leading the country through a pandemic crisis and out of the European Union can't fathom the logistics for childcare arrangements.  Um, ok.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Matt2112 on May 25, 2020, 23:19:59 pm
But look - the shops will be open again soon.  Hurrah!
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Slim on May 25, 2020, 23:53:15 pm
I listened to Dominic's press conference quite carefully, while pedalling home from Northampton. He spoke with great humility, and with a lot of patience. He set out his position and the reason for his actions very comprehensively, and I think sincerely. I am more satisfied than ever that his actions were proper and reasonable, I am pleased that the PM has taken the same view and after he spoke my overriding thought was - this is a real moment of shame for the UK press. This soft-spoken, decent man has shown them up for the self-serving attention seekers they are.

Needless to say the journalists, if I can dignify some of the idiots present with the term, who were present at Number 10 continued to behave like bloodthirsty, swivel-eyed hyenas when they were invited to ask questions; questions that I might add Dominic answered very graciously, despite having the same tedious points he'd responded to already put to him several times.

Anyone would think that he'd swanned off to spend a few weeks in a villa. He went to self-isolate in an outhouse on his parents' property, in the interest of his child's welfare.

This whole saga has got a lot more to do with Dominic Cummings' effectiveness as a strategist for the Tory Party than anything else.

Worth pointing out here that the daily press briefings were never intended as a platform for party political axe-grinding, and if the various press and media outlets are now confident, as they seem to be, that their various listeners, viewers and readers are no longer interested in the progress made by the government in defeating the virus, how they might be affected by it or (say) when their kids will be going to school, it's probably a good idea to remove the press questions section. It's a privilege that is now being abused.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Matt2112 on May 26, 2020, 00:25:07 am
Spain's 14-day quarantine rule being lifted on 1st July.

Lost track of the UK's policy - we'll be the only place with the rule in operation at this rate.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on May 26, 2020, 00:35:57 am
Based on official figures and on a rolling 7 day average the UK has more COVID deaths per head of population than any other country. 

Yes all the caveats apply about international comparison but I am truly shocked by that
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Nïckslïkk2112 on May 26, 2020, 11:29:38 am
Quote from: döm on May 26, 2020, 00:35:57 amBased on official figures and on a rolling 7 day average the UK has more COVID deaths per head of population than any other country.

Yes all the caveats apply about international comparison but I am truly shocked by that
What do you expect with Dominic Bloody Cummings gallivanting around the country!
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Matt2112 on May 26, 2020, 11:49:19 am
Apparently, Calderdale & Huddersfield NHS Trust have recorded 0 deaths from Covid-19 for the past 9 days.

Can't be 100% about this however, and as Wikipedia might say, "citation needed".

EDIT: legit as per stats on nhs.england.uk
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Bisto on May 26, 2020, 12:39:42 pm
Quote from: Matt2112 on May 26, 2020, 11:49:19 amApparently, Calderdale & Huddersfield NHS Trust have recorded 0 deaths from Covid-19 for the past 9 days.

Can't be 100% about this however, and as Wikipedia might say, "citation needed".

EDIT: legit as per stats on nhs.england.uk
If you believe they are legit then do you also believe all the previously recorded deaths recorded as Covid19 were legit?
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Matt2112 on May 26, 2020, 12:48:24 pm
Quote from: Bisto on May 26, 2020, 12:39:42 pmIf you believe they are legit then do you also believe all the previously recorded deaths recorded as Covid19 were legit?
So what are you inferring then: they were being over-recorded and now they're being under-recorded?  For what purposes?
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on May 26, 2020, 13:02:22 pm
I think I might get my name changed to something a little less toxic. Adolf perhaps?
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Bisto on May 26, 2020, 13:30:22 pm
Quote from: Matt2112 on May 26, 2020, 12:48:24 pmSo what are you inferring then: they were being over-recorded and now they're being under-recorded?  For what purposes?
I didn't do the inferring though Matt, you did. I merely asked if you believed that all of those stats are reliable(legit)....I would have asked the same of anybody who had made that statement.

There has been a lot of manipulation in the way the stats have been presented, some might say that was a deliberate attempt to make accurate and meaningful comparisons difficult or impossible.

Beyond that I'd suggest that it suited the Government to hide the care home death stats and their policy of sending elderly infected Covid19 sufferers to Care Homes and Hospices instead of the specialist hospitals and to LIE about the level of support that Care Homes were given.

You COULD speculate that this was a cover up of a deliberate policy to kill the elderly or you COULD speculate that it was merely the inevitable consequence of a Government of incompetent idiots monumentally mismanaging their response to the virus and desperately trying to cover it up and front it out. Most people will go with the latter explanation I'm struggling to see any other reasonable alternatives but am willing to listen and consider any

Obviously there is a lot more that one could speculate on but the evidence for some of the things I suspect may be true is also circumstantial, so nothing definitive to present at the moment, and there may never be.

I don't think there's any harm in asking pertinent questions though, do you?
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Matt2112 on May 26, 2020, 14:43:38 pm
Quote from: Bisto on May 26, 2020, 13:30:22 pmI didn't do the inferring though Matt, you did. I merely asked if you believed that all of those stats are reliable(legit)....I would have asked the same of anybody who had made that statement.

There has been a lot of manipulation in the way the stats have been presented, some might say that was a deliberate attempt to make accurate and meaningful comparisons difficult or impossible.

Beyond that I'd suggest that it suited the Government to hide the care home death stats and their policy of sending elderly infected Covid19 sufferers to Care Homes and Hospices instead of the specialist hospitals and to LIE about the level of support that Care Homes were given.

You COULD speculate that this was a cover up of a deliberate policy to kill the elderly or you COULD speculate that it was merely the inevitable consequence of a Government of incompetent idiots monumentally mismanaging their response to the virus and desperately trying to cover it up and front it out. Most people will go with the latter explanation I'm struggling to see any other reasonable alternatives but am willing to listen and consider any

Obviously there is a lot more that one could speculate on but the evidence for some of the things I suspect may be true is also circumstantial, so nothing definitive to present at the moment, and there may never be.

I don't think there's any harm in asking pertinent questions though, do you?
The very question you originally asked inferred, without actually saying so, that you believe the stats are unreliable; if you thought otherwise then why ask?

So then I merely asked a pertinent question...etc etc. Yet somehow have been railroaded to a tu quoque merry-go-round.

Why should I think the stats are unreliable?  Even clutching at the most catastrophic interpretation of things, as in your post, apparently hasn't even persuaded yourself you can say with total confidence the figures have been fiddled.

Have you considered that about 85% of care homes are run by the private sector and how this might manifest itself?  Or don't the details matter in this case?
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Bisto on May 26, 2020, 16:36:08 pm
Quote from: Matt2112 on May 26, 2020, 14:43:38 pmThe very question you originally asked inferred, without actually saying so, that you believe the stats are unreliable; if you thought otherwise then why ask?

So then I merely asked a pertinent question...etc etc. Yet somehow have been railroaded to a tu quoque merry-go-round.

Why should I think the stats are unreliable?  Even clutching at the most catastrophic interpretation of things, as in your post, apparently hasn't even persuaded yourself you can say with total confidence the figures have been fiddled.

Have you considered that about 85% of care homes are run by the private sector and how this might manifest itself?  Or don't the details matter in this case?
What I asked was what YOU believe, I notice you haven't given a straight answer, as is your right of course...if I were to infer anything from your non committal response it might be that, theoretically at least, you are possibly more worried about being seen to be wrong, even in hindsight, than you are to get to the truth...though perhaps that would be a little uncharitable and unfair of me?

I don't care if I'm proved wrong or made to look (or be considered) foolish as long as the truth is established..that's not me virtue signalling...I'm the first to admit my many, many faults...Im just sick of, and angry with, the Tories and Politicians in general fecking things up so badly, be it deliberately or through catestrophic incompetence and lack of sound judgement. I think they should be held to account at least even if the system isn't dismantled and restarted  ina similar way to Iceland
The quality of UK Politicians has declined to its lowest point in my adult life time. Even John Majors cabinet was more confidence inspiring and competent than this blatant bunch of frauds, narcissists and liggers
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Bisto on May 26, 2020, 16:37:20 pm
Quote from: Matt2112 on May 26, 2020, 14:43:38 pmThe very question you originally asked inferred, without actually saying so, that you believe the stats are unreliable; if you thought otherwise then why ask?

So then I merely asked a pertinent question...etc etc. Yet somehow have been railroaded to a tu quoque merry-go-round.

Why should I think the stats are unreliable?  Even clutching at the most catastrophic interpretation of things, as in your post, apparently hasn't even persuaded yourself you can say with total confidence the figures have been fiddled.

Have you considered that about 85% of care homes are run by the private sector and how this might manifest itself?  Or don't the details matter in this case?
The stats are unreliable, even (edit) Sir Patrick Vallance said so in one of his briefings

Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: The Letter R on May 26, 2020, 18:30:49 pm
The Stats we are getting are a guide at best - we probably won't know a true(ish) figure for a year or more tbh - there a deaths not being reported in the wider community and I am sure some other deaths just getting the COVID tick due to poor management, laziness or people in certain places making it want to look worse. Other people have died with COVID maybe a few weeks earlier than they would have due to other major health issues so not sure it is "fair" to attribute that to COVID but that is a whole other debate. 
The only real figure a judgement can be made on and that is still not 100% is excess deaths recorded vs the previous 5 year average for the time of year.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Matt2112 on May 26, 2020, 18:41:14 pm
Quote from: Bisto on May 26, 2020, 16:36:08 pmWhat I asked was what YOU believe, I notice you haven't given a straight answer, as is your right of course...if I were to infer anything from your non committal response it might be that, theoretically at least, you are possibly more worried about being seen to be wrong, even in hindsight, than you are to get to the truth...though perhaps that would be a little uncharitable and unfair of me?

I don't care if I'm proved wrong or made to look (or be considered) foolish as long as the truth is established..that's not me virtue signalling...I'm the first to admit my many, many faults...Im just sick of, and angry with, the Tories and Politicians in general fecking things up so badly, be it deliberately or through catestrophic incompetence and lack of sound judgement. I think they should be held to account at least even if the system isn't dismantled and restarted  ina similar way to Iceland
The quality of UK Politicians has declined to its lowest point in my adult life time. Even John Majors cabinet was more confidence inspiring and competent than this blatant bunch of frauds, narcissists and liggers
Actually much I can agree with there.

Okay then, to clarify: my presumption is that the figures are in general collated and reported in good faith, with solid methodology, hence are reliable - or actually as I put it, "legit" - by that metric.  In other words, I've no reason to believe there's a material amount of "monkey business" going on.

Are they necessarily infallibly accurate? No. So I'm happy to concede they can't be reliable on that score, if that's what you're getting at, and I take the point on trust about Prof. Chris Witty's remarks.

If we were discussing at cross-purposes then I'm at least partly culpable, so apologies for any shortcoming on my part. :)
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on May 26, 2020, 21:05:03 pm
Not sure how Cummings can be trusted.  Why would he go back and edit an article he wrote a couple of years ago to try and show that he had predicted this epidemic?
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Bisto on May 26, 2020, 22:24:45 pm
Quote from: Matt2112 on May 26, 2020, 18:41:14 pmActually much I can agree with there.

Okay then, to clarify: my presumption is that the figures are in general collated and reported in good faith, with solid methodology, hence are reliable - or actually as I put it, "legit" - by that metric.  In other words, I've no reason to believe there's a material amount of "monkey business" going on.

Are they necessarily infallibly accurate? No. So I'm happy to concede they can't be reliable on that score, if that's what you're getting at, and I take the point on trust about Prof. Chris Witty's remarks.

If we were discussing at cross-purposes then I'm at least partly culpable, so apologies for any shortcoming on my part. :)
Accepted, thank you. I suspect we both enjoy a bit of a verbal joust; I'm certainly not beyond playing the agent provocateur...plus, I admit I'm a bit of a c*** at times and can overstep the mark, so please accept my own sincere apologies...you cock😉
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Chris Quartly on May 26, 2020, 22:48:44 pm
Quote from: döm on May 26, 2020, 21:05:03 pmNot sure how Cummings can be trusted.  Why would he go back and edit an article he wrote a couple of years ago to try and show that he had predicted this epidemic?
The two things that strike me during all this nonsense is the above, which seems completely unethical to the point of asking how anyone can believe a word the man says, and the staggeringly idiotic decision to "test his eyesight" by going on a drive... and why take his wife on that same idiotic drive, to risk her life?

I can't believe that anyone with the temerity to defend some of his behaviour would be so charitable if it happened to be from someone on the other side of their own politics. At least some of the MPs in the Conservative party are showing some integrity by asking for his resignation.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Bisto on May 26, 2020, 22:51:06 pm
Quote from: Matt2112 on May 26, 2020, 18:41:14 pmActually much I can agree with there.

Okay then, to clarify: my presumption is that the figures are in general collated and reported in good faith, with solid methodology, hence are reliable - or actually as I put it, "legit" - by that metric.  In other words, I've no reason to believe there's a material amount of "monkey business" going on.

Are they necessarily infallibly accurate? No. So I'm happy to concede they can't be reliable on that score, if that's what you're getting at, and I take the point on trust about Prof. Chris Witty's remarks.

My mistake, it was Chief Scientific Adviser; Professor Patrick Vallance...watch while you can (it has already been taken down from my FB feed once)

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1123403608040992&id=100011140898973&sfnsn=scwspmo&extid=L8pYsLwbfOo3FitI&d=n&vh=i
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Slim on May 26, 2020, 23:34:29 pm
Good showing from Matt at the briefing today - took no nonsense from the assorted "journalists" present, offered a robust, rightly confident and proper defence of Dominic's very comprehensive account yesterday - and I was very pleased to see that in some cases, he didn't bother to offer follow up questions. The government has provided these Q&A sessions in good faith, and it has to work both ways.

One of the representatives of the media though actually asked a sensible, pertinent question - I think it was the last one. Well done, sir. Bravo, whoever you were.

Meanwhile the latest death toll figures reported, while artificially low due to the bank holiday no doubt, show a promising dip in the 7-day moving average which now looks like this:

(http://truth.justdied.com/images/200526_chart.png)
The next couple of days' figures will be telling but I'm highly encouraged, nonetheless.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Slim on May 27, 2020, 00:02:25 am
Quote from: Chris Quartly on May 26, 2020, 22:48:44 pmI can't believe that anyone with the temerity to defend some of his behaviour would be so charitable if it happened to be from someone on the other side of their own politics. At least some of the MPs in the Conservative party are showing some integrity by asking for his resignation.

Here's the thing Chris - your own interpretation of these events is not compulsory. Those of us who stand by Dominic's position, sincerely accept the validity and truth of it and want to defend it because it's the right thing to do, are also showing - and defending - integrity.

Indeed, I strongly suspect that some of the backbenchers calling for Dom to resign are doing so only because they're worried about their own popularity with the constituents on whom they rely for votes, because many of them are being swayed by a toxic, hostile media. That's not integrity, not in the slightest.

Some of them may agree with you, and fair enough. But those who sincerely disagree with you and have rightly defended Dominic Cummings are displaying admirable integrity. My own integrity demands that I stand up for what I believe to be right and honest, and that's precisely why I'm typing this now.

Personally I'm honestly a little bit sickened that after such an open, heartfelt and very comprehensive and personal account of his actions and especially after it became clear that much of the media gossip about it was false, the usual clowns in the media are still parroting the same spiteful crap like a broken record. I was not in the least surprised to see #ScumMedia trending on Twitter last night.

This has nothing to do with abuse of powers or journalism or the national interest. It's all about trying to undermine a hard-working government and an effective Tory strategist and adviser. And by the way that's definitely not integrity, just so we're clear.

By the way on a different point, I've edited blog posts written in the past myself - it isn't actually dishonest to revise something you've written. It's just so easy to jump to these conclusions but integrity demands a more careful analysis. If you actually look at the original post that he edited, there's no question that there was an intent to revise it later - he included the words [an example] in square brackets. Then later, no doubt prompted by current events, he did actually insert the example. I can accept that views will differ on the question of his blog but it's a side issue anyway.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Matt2112 on May 27, 2020, 00:27:17 am
I've got to say that Peston led with his chin at the briefing today and Hancock duly socked him right on it.

The chap is on a roll with dumb questions at the moment, so I'm looking forward to him providing more light relief tomorrow.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Slim on May 27, 2020, 00:30:38 am
For those who don't quite agree with me that our left-leaning media is spiteful and toxic, this little piece was penned by a Guardian and Mirror writer:


(http://truth.justdied.com/images/andy_dawson.jpg)

In this case the target of his attention was Michael Gove. Also worth remembering that a lot of people with the same mindset, if I can call it that - the violent Remainers and the Momentum filth - had already been harrassing Dominic Cummings' family home. Little wonder that he wanted to make sure his family were safe elsewhere in the event of his becoming ill.

By the way the censorship you see applied to the C word there is mine; please don't imagine Andy was that discreet. He wouldn't want that.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on May 27, 2020, 00:55:51 am
Quote from: Matt2112 on May 27, 2020, 00:27:17 amI've got to say that Peston led with his chin at the briefing today and Hancock duly socked him right on it.

The chap is on a roll with dumb questions at the moment, so I'm looking forward to him providing more light relief tomorrow.
I enjoyed that...immensely  ;D
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on May 27, 2020, 01:49:16 am
Quote from: Slim on May 27, 2020, 00:30:38 amFor those who don't quite agree with me that our left-leaning media is spiteful and toxic, this little piece was penned by a Guardian and Mirror writer:


(http://truth.justdied.com/images/andy_dawson.jpg)

In this case the target of his attention was Michael Gove. Also worth remembering that a lot of people with the same mindset, if I can call it that - the violent Remainers and the Momentum filth - had already been harrassing Dominic Cummings' family home. Little wonder that he wanted to make sure his family were safe elsewhere in the event of his becoming ill.

By the way the censorship you see applied to the C word there is mine; please don't imagine Andy was that discreet. He wouldn't want that.
He's a freelance journalist and he doesn't appear to have penned anything for The Guardian in the last 2 years.  He has nothing to do with their political output and used to write the odd feature /humorous piece for them

https://www.theguardian.com/profile/andy-dawson

I'm not sure it's very fair to try and lump all of centre/left wing media in his basket.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: pdw1 on May 27, 2020, 10:34:55 am
Quote from: döm on May 27, 2020, 01:49:16 amHe's a freelance journalist and he doesn't appear to have penned anything for The Guardian in the last 2 years.  He has nothing to do with their political output and used to write the odd feature /humorous piece for them

https://www.theguardian.com/profile/andy-dawson

I'm not sure it's very fair to try and lump all of centre/left wing media in his basket.
Would that be the 2nd piece of fake news Slim has tried to spread round here?
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on May 27, 2020, 11:05:57 am
Quote from: pdw1 on May 27, 2020, 10:34:55 amWould that be the 2nd piece of fake news Slim has tried to spread round here?
That kind of stuff goes down very well in the alt right echo chamber but it's a good idea to submit them to a bit of scrutiny before bringing them out into daylight.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Slim on May 27, 2020, 14:36:08 pm
Quote from: pdw1 on May 27, 2020, 10:34:55 amWould that be the 2nd piece of fake news Slim has tried to spread round here?

There hasn't been a first, and that wasn't fake news. So that's a "no", then. Is this the first piece of fake news you've tried to spread round here, or have there been others?

Here's a bit of lovely scrutiny.


(http://truth.justdied.com/images/andydawson.png)


I do enjoy the way the left offers opportunities for others of its ilk to make laughing stocks of themselves. I'd say "don't feel bad" and you certainly aren't the first or last, but you know what? Do feel bad. That way you might learn from it.

Meanwhile, while we're on the subject of fake news - it turns out that the dastardly edit performed by Dominic Cummings on his blog was to include text that was already explicitly linked from it. That [An Example] text was actually a link, to exactly the text that was subsequently included. All of it was already explicitly referenced.

A bit of scrutiny helps, eh? But no, you hobbyist Tory-haters were so quick to call into question his honesty and integrity. How can anyone trust a word he says? You squealed indignantly, all the time making it just a wee bit difficult for a rational person to trust anything you type yourselves.

Do feel bad. And learn something. It might spoil your hobby a little, but you'll look a lot less daft. And dishonest.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: captainkurtz on May 27, 2020, 15:09:02 pm
You're wasted on here, James!  Honestly, you'd be fantastic working closely with the government.  And I mean that sincerely and not facetiously.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: pdw1 on May 27, 2020, 15:27:45 pm
Quote from: Slim on May 27, 2020, 14:36:08 pmThere hasn't been a first, and that wasn't fake news. So that's a "no", then. Is this the first piece of fake news you've tried to spread round here, or have there been others?

Here's a bit of lovely scrutiny.


(http://truth.justdied.com/images/andydawson.png)


I do enjoy the way the left offers opportunities for others of its ilk to make laughing stocks of themselves. I'd say "don't feel bad" and you certainly aren't the first or last, but you know what? Do feel bad. That way you might learn from it.

Meanwhile, while we're on the subject of fake news - it turns out that the dastardly edit performed by Dominic Cummings on his blog was to include text that was already explicitly linked from it. That [An Example] text was actually a link, to exactly the text that was subsequently included. All of it was already explicitly referenced.

A bit of scrutiny helps, eh? But no, you hobbyist Tory-haters were so quick to call into question his honesty and integrity. How can anyone trust a word he says? You squealed indignantly, all the time making it just a wee bit difficult for a rational person to trust anything you type yourselves.

Do feel bad. And learn something. It might spoil your hobby a little, but you'll look a lot less daft. And dishonest.

Never let the facts get in the way of a good rant.
As Kurtzy said you are wasted on here.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: The Letter R on May 27, 2020, 15:30:17 pm
Quote from: Slim on May 27, 2020, 00:02:25 amHere's the thing Chris - your own interpretation of these events is not compulsory. Those of us who stand by Dominic's position, sincerely accept the validity and truth of it and want to defend it because it's the right thing to do, are also showing - and defending - integrity.

Indeed, I strongly suspect that some of the backbenchers calling for Dom to resign are doing so only because they're worried about their own popularity with the constituents on whom they rely for votes, because many of them are being swayed by a toxic, hostile media. That's not integrity, not in the slightest.

Some of them may agree with you, and fair enough. But those who sincerely disagree with you and have rightly defended Dominic Cummings are displaying admirable integrity. My own integrity demands that I stand up for what I believe to be right and honest, and that's precisely why I'm typing this now.

Personally I'm honestly a little bit sickened that after such an open, heartfelt and very comprehensive and personal account of his actions and especially after it became clear that much of the media gossip about it was false, the usual clowns in the media are still parroting the same spiteful crap like a broken record. I was not in the least surprised to see #ScumMedia trending on Twitter last night.

This has nothing to do with abuse of powers or journalism or the national interest. It's all about trying to undermine a hard-working government and an effective Tory strategist and adviser. And by the way that's definitely not integrity, just so we're clear.

By the way on a different point, I've edited blog posts written in the past myself - it isn't actually dishonest to revise something you've written. It's just so easy to jump to these conclusions but integrity demands a more careful analysis. If you actually look at the original post that he edited, there's no question that there was an intent to revise it later - he included the words [an example] in square brackets. Then later, no doubt prompted by current events, he did actually insert the example. I can accept that views will differ on the question of his blog but it's a side issue anyway.
Surprised as a keen road cyclist James you are so at ease with old Doms eye sight test roadtrip......
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Chris Quartly on May 27, 2020, 15:36:46 pm
Quote from: Slim on May 27, 2020, 00:02:25 amBy the way on a different point, I've edited blog posts written in the past myself - it isn't actually dishonest to revise something you've written. It's just so easy to jump to these conclusions but integrity demands a more careful analysis. If you actually look at the original post that he edited, there's no question that there was an intent to revise it later - he included the words [an example] in square brackets. Then later, no doubt prompted by current events, he did actually insert the example. I can accept that views will differ on the question of his blog but it's a side issue anyway.

It is absolutely right to defend someone you think has done nothing wrong, which makes everything you've written above this quote particularly disheartening and perplexing given all the actual evidence...

I could edit a blog post I made a year ago with this week's lottery result and claim it a prediction, but I would look a little silly once people pointed out the timeline (don't worry, my original post will have said "come back and revise this later"). And again, the idea that if your eyesight is not great, the only way to test whether or not you're able to drive... is to drive? With a loved one in the car? Putting them at risk? Would you ever, in a million years, say to your partner "I don't know if my eyesight is good enough to drive, would you like to accompany me to a tourist site so I can test? We might crash if they're not up to the task so I'd like to injure you as well as myself, hope that's ok", the answer might be yes (despite it not being a legal act), but I'd sincerely hope it isn't.

Imagine it was Alistair Campbell under the exact same circumstances during Blair's time...
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Chris Quartly on May 27, 2020, 15:37:44 pm
Quote from: The Letter R on May 27, 2020, 15:30:17 pmSurprised as a keen road cyclist James you are so at ease with old Doms eye sight test roadtrip......

Perhaps James could make a chart detailing which motorists he'd be ok with being hit by...
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on May 27, 2020, 16:27:23 pm
Quote from: döm on May 27, 2020, 01:49:16 amHe's a freelance journalist and he doesn't appear to have penned anything for The Guardian in the last 2 years.  He has nothing to do with their political output and used to write the odd feature /humorous piece for them

https://www.theguardian.com/profile/andy-dawson

I'm not sure it's very fair to try and lump all of centre/left wing media in his basket.
Slim, perhaps you didn't click on the link I posted here. You posted the top of that Guardian page. My link shows the entire page and it proves that they printed occasional (every 3 - 6 months) light-hearted pieces by him and nothing in the last 2 years. It's stretching credibility to call him a Guardian journalist. He's not employed by them. So to use one offensive tweet  to make a much larger point about the left is wrong quite hinestly

The other post pdw1 was referring to was the quote you posted from a SAGE representative where she spoke about "exceptional circumstances". This seemingly gave Dominic Cummings a get out of jail free card. Unfortunately the quote was cut short. The full speech indicated the measures you should take if you found yourself in such circumstances. None of which included travelling across the country to reside in your pied-a-tierre.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on May 27, 2020, 18:37:10 pm
Poor performance by the PM in front of the Liaison Committee this afternoon. Lots of waffle, bumble and bluster. He's beginning to resemble an empty vessel. Almost felt sorry for him.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on May 27, 2020, 18:49:24 pm
Not great news from Ireland  - from 0 covid deaths on Mon to 9 yesterday and 17 today. We haven't got this beat yet.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on May 27, 2020, 19:59:02 pm
Quote from: döm on May 27, 2020, 18:49:24 pmNot great news from Ireland  - from 0 covid deaths on Mon to 9 yesterday and 17 today. We haven't got this beat yet.
At least you've got the EU ;)
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on May 27, 2020, 20:22:56 pm
Quote from: DavidL on May 27, 2020, 19:59:02 pmAt least you've got the EU ;)
Even though that's to type wasn't expecting that! Congratulations!
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on May 27, 2020, 20:40:58 pm
But R rate down to 0.4 - 0.5. promising as the country slowly reopens...

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0527/1142972-simon-harris/
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Matt2112 on May 27, 2020, 21:15:43 pm
Quote from: döm on May 27, 2020, 20:40:58 pmBut R rate down to 0.4 - 0.5. promising as the country slowly reopens...

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0527/1142972-simon-harris/
I'm wondering then if my Motherland is on Greece's "A" list..?  Hashtag "DublinDodge"...  :D ;)
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Bisto on May 27, 2020, 22:26:01 pm
https

//www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/may/27/boris-johnson-coronavirus-dominic-cummings

THE GUARDIAN

Opinion
Boris Johnson has failed to protect the nation. Instead he's protecting one man
Aditya Chakrabortty

He missed vital meetings on coronavirus, and was barely seen for weeks, but for Dominic Cummings he's fought tooth and nail

@chakrabortty
Wed 27 May 2020 12.40 BSTLast modified on Wed 27 May 2020 18.23 BST

If only Boris Johnson had acted as swiftly and forcefully on the pandemic as he has to save Dominic Cummings. No 10 has thrown everything into defending one man, while it has failed to protect 66 million other Britons.

Over February and early March, Johnson was scarcely to be seen, even as the coronavirus crept into the UK through our airports, our workplaces, our pubs and gyms. But in the past few days he has put himself front and centre, displaying a speed and decisiveness that contrasts shamefully with his previous lethal complacency.

Describing how the government was plunged into chaos over Covid-19, one senior adviser to No 10 recently told the Sunday Times: "There's no way you're at war if your PM isn't there." Well, 60,000 dead bodies later, the prime minister is here and he is at war. Except, he is not out to save our lives, but to spare the career of his employee.

The part-time prime minister is now doing overtime. The shiny-eyed boyfriend who devoted weekends to country breaks with his fiancee as the virus took hold, spent last Sunday in a Downing Street bunker with his aide finessing alibis.


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However great the rage vented at Cummings, his actual sins are not so rare ­- just ask Neil Ferguson or Catherine Calderwood, who also broke the lockdown rules they helped author. But whereas those government scientific advisers made their apologies and left, what's been extraordinary this week is the way in which the institutions of the British state have been mobilised to defend one man.



Nobody elected Cummings. He boasts no policymaking expertise and bears no inherent authority, bar that lent to him by his friend the prime minister. Yet to keep him in post, cabinet ministers have been used as sockpuppets, tweeting the same ridiculous excuses for his behaviour.

"Entirely right," declared health secretary Matt Hancock who, somewhere on the Cummings itinerary between Durham and Barnard Castle, had instructed us it was entirely wrong for infected people to leave the house. The attorney general of England, Suella Braverman, whose job is to provide independent legal advice, rushed to declare possibly illegal behaviour above board. Over the weekend Downing Street desperately tried to kill off the story. Then finally, the day after a disastrous public briefing by Boris Johnson, a mere adviser was granted the kind of press conference, in the No 10 rose garden, normally given for world leaders or for major national occasions ­- once the stage set for Tony Blair and Bill Clinton, for Nick Clegg and David Cameron.

For the sake of one father of one four-year-old, the public health guidelines have been binned and, as one of the government's scientific advisers has said, the credibility of both the advice and those giving it has been "trashed".

Clutching at terms for this spectacle, many have called it "hypocrisy". If only. At least that's a familiar vice. Hypocrisy in politics? We've all seen that box set. But in truth, this is its opposite ­- an ugly display of naked honesty by both Cummings and Johnson about who really matters in Britain today. Namely: them. Not us, the Little People who have to follow the rules; nor the health of a democracy that relies on everyone respecting norms and procedures.



In that revelation lies so much of the huge public disquiet. The government has displayed immense force in trying to rescue Cummings, while showing just how corrupt it is, by ripping up rules to accommodate one associate of the prime minister. The hard-right groupuscule running Britain has exposed how rotten the country has become.

Just why the prime minister has lashed himself to his ideas guy is a question best left to biographers. For now, let us observe that, while Cummings has broken the rules, Johnson is bending the machinery of state to his defence, pronouncing: L'etat, c'est Dom et moi. As Danny Kruger wrote to his fellow Conservative MPs last night, "Appreciate the inbox and press are horrific but the PM is signalling that he's serious ... calling for [Cummings] to go is basically declaring no confidence in [the] PM." You can always judge a man's priorities by his diary, and this prime minister skipped five Cobra meetings on the coronavirus crisis on the trot, even while finding time to attend a giant fundraising ball for the Conservative party.

Johnson's coterie will go to war for Cummings, yet they couldn't equip doctors and nurses with essential masks and gowns. The result is that 200 healthcare workers have so far died of Covid-19. Although the UK has a GDP per head of nearly £35,000, it still can't run a test-and-trace regime to touch that of Vietnam (GDP per head, £2,000).



When you run one of the richest countries in the world, inaction is as much a choice as action. The prime minister who has thrown a protective ring around Cummings also let thousands of residents of care homes die for want of testing. While Johnson this week commended his aide's fatherly instincts, he said nothing about the fathers and mothers and grandparents who have died needlessly over the past two months, many without a hand to hold in their final hours.

The scandal that today rightly roars around Cummings and Johnson is nothing compared with their gigantic failure on Covid-19. Both men must know that their real reckoning is still to come. Those Westminster bubble descriptions of two "political geniuses" leave out what a mess they've made in government, on everything from suspending parliament to Brexit deals. Get past the 20,000-word blog posts and the three-word slogans ­- Take Back Control, Get Brexit Done ­- and all they have is a talent for self-preservation and media manipulation. It gets them into power, but leaves them no clue what to do with it.

So the endless jokes about driving to Barnard Castle for an eye test distract from the government's multiple failures on sourcing protective equipment for key workers, which in turn overshadows the double-counting of coronavirus tests, which in turn hides the complete failure of the testing regime, which in turn obscures the awful and disgraceful reality that the UK is second only to the US in its total number of Covid-19 deaths.



Soon will come a point when the memes peter out and the media scrum disperses. What will be left is a historic economic depression and a public realisation that far more people have died in this pandemic than in the blitz, thanks to an administration that could barely bring itself to care for anyone beyond its own senior members.

Stay at Home? That was just for us; for them it meant Stay Where You Like.

Protect the NHS? Protect Yourselves.

Save Lives? Save Dom.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Nïckslïkk2112 on May 27, 2020, 23:01:09 pm
Quote from: Bisto on May 27, 2020, 22:26:01 pmSave Lives? Save Dom.
Feck him, he lives in Ireland!!!

Pity COVID19 doesn't preferentially dispose of spineless leftie Grauniad hacks instead of BAME and males.

Mrs S, who doesn't have too much going on between her tabs thinks people should let DomCum be now, in her opinion he's made a misjudgement of the "Rules". Something which lots of people have. Chwis Packham on Springwatch yesterday kept banging on about having his allowed "One Hour's exercise" when that has never been in the rules. No time limits were specified and now you can have unlimited time anyway.

I'm a cyclist, a member of probably the most hated minority group in the country and the amount of stick we've been getting for breaking of the COVID19 "rules" when none have been broken has been quite disgusting.

And do you know what? Boris does want to protect the NHS. For Why? Because if it gets run down too much he knows he won't be able to get a good price for it when he flogs it off!
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: döm on May 28, 2020, 10:44:02 am
It was a mistake by Johnson to hold onto Cummings but this is far more damning...

https://amp.ft.com/content/6b4c784e-c259-4ca4-9a82-648ffde71bf0
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on May 28, 2020, 10:54:43 am
Quote from: döm on May 28, 2020, 10:44:02 amIt was a mistake by Johnson to hold onto Cummings but this is far more damning...

https://amp.ft.com/content/6b4c784e-c259-4ca4-9a82-648ffde71bf0
Yes it looks pretty grim.

A UK government spokesperson said it was "wrong and premature to be drawing conclusions at this stage" and that excess deaths should be adjusted for age. ;D ....... >:(
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on May 28, 2020, 13:36:28 pm
I like this:

https://www.facebook.com/EvolvePolitics/videos/2623189397952837/UzpfSTEwMDAyMzQ1MTI0NjYzMDo2OTI3NDYzMDE1MTcwNzI/
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Matt2112 on May 28, 2020, 13:55:17 pm
Quote from: DavidL on May 28, 2020, 13:36:28 pmI like this:

https://www.facebook.com/EvolvePolitics/videos/2623189397952837/UzpfSTEwMDAyMzQ1MTI0NjYzMDo2OTI3NDYzMDE1MTcwNzI/
:)

That's the most troubling aspect of the story; it just doesn't seem to sit right.  Shame we'll probably never know.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: captainkurtz on May 28, 2020, 15:16:00 pm
What was that?  It's gone now...
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on May 28, 2020, 15:17:04 pm
Quote from: captainkurtz on May 28, 2020, 15:16:00 pmWhat was that?  It's gone now...
Still there if you click on the link
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: captainkurtz on May 28, 2020, 15:18:45 pm
I'm getting the page you requested cannot he found...
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on May 28, 2020, 18:53:08 pm
Quote from: captainkurtz on May 28, 2020, 15:18:45 pmI'm getting the page you requested cannot he found...
Perhaps you have to be on Facebook. Try this:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/videoshowbiz/video-2179896/Video-way-Barnard-Castle-McGuinness-recreates-hit-song.html
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: captainkurtz on May 28, 2020, 20:35:29 pm
The Paddy McGuiness clip?
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Matt2112 on May 28, 2020, 20:36:26 pm
Quote from: captainkurtz on May 28, 2020, 20:35:29 pmThe Paddy McGuiness clip?
That's it. 👍🏻
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on May 29, 2020, 00:07:54 am
Track and Trace. Another balls-up to add to the list.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Bisto on May 29, 2020, 10:55:52 am

The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/)
Lifestyle (https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle)

The politics sketch (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/series/the-politics-sketch)
Boris Johnson sacrifices top scientific advisers on altar of Classic Dom


PM turns Great Dictator as he silences Chris Whitty and Patrick Vallance at daily briefing
@JohnJCrace (https://twitter.com/JohnJCrace)
Thu 28 May 2020 20.03


Yesterday I wrote that the best way to understand the state the country is in was to consider it a banana republic. I'd meant it as a joke, but at the Downing Street press conference , Boris Johnson went out of his way to prove me right. The UK's very own dictator might not have much of a reputation left to protect, but Chris Whitty and Patrick Vallance most certainly did.
Yet to save what now passes for his career, Boris went out of his way to trash the reputations of both the chief medical officer and the chief scientific adviser. Just as unbelievably, a plainly terrified Whitty and Vallance just stood there and took it. If either had a smidgeon of self worth, both would have walked out once the questions began.

It seems that many people have been making simple category errors with Boris. They have assumed that Dominic Cummings's understudy has an intelligence and morality to compromise. That's why more than 70% of the country had said that Johnson should do the right thing and sack his special adviser for breaking the guidelines and undermining the government's public health message.
Yet the evidence all points to something more disturbing. That beyond an ability to recite the odd Latin phrase, Boris is actually quite dim. Worse still he is totally amoral. So the very idea of him doing the right thing is a complete non-starter.
Right from the start of the briefing, Boris set out to gaslight the entire nation. Things were great. Improving rapidly. So he was now in a position to re-announce some easing of the lockdown measures (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/28/groups-up-to-six-people-allowed-meet-england-monday-coronavirus-lockdown-easing) that he had already announced during the previous week.

Sure it might be a bit of a risk, as the track and trace programme wouldn't be properly up and running properly till the end of June. But hey! The weather was nice and everyone deserved a break. And he really appreciated the sacrifices that everyone had been making so that Dom and his family could take a well-earned day out to Barnard Castle (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/may/28/dominic-cummings-potentially-broke-lockdown-rules-say-durham-police).
Even Whitty and Vallance appeared slightly taken aback by Johnson's bullish optimism. Matt Hancock might have found it hysterically funny that the UK now had the worst death rate in the world during an interview with Kay Burley on Sky, but they both thought the situation was basically a bit shit and that we were a long way behind most other European countries.

It was when the questions started coming in that Boris went full psycho failed state. Given this was the first time that the CMO and CSA for England had been allowed out in public since Cummings' moonlight flit to Durham had come to public notice, most journalists were keen to know if Whitty and Vallance endorsed Classic Dom's course of action during the end of March and the first two weeks of April. But before either had a chance to speak, Boris effectively silenced them. They wouldn't be commenting on this, he said, before preventing Laura Kuenssberg from asking a follow-up question by muting her.
Almost every other journalist had similar questions. And each time Boris either ignored them or just repeated that Whitty and Vallance couldn't get involved in political issues. It's possible that both men had only agreed to stand alongside the Great Dictator on the proviso they were allowed to say nothing. If so that was a huge mistake on their part, because reputations that had taken decades to build were shredded in a matter of minutes.

The whole point was that the scientific and the political have become entwined, not least because Laughing Boy had chosen to make it so. And the questions the scientists were being asked were matters of scientific judgement. Would they recommend doing what Classic Dom had done? Was that the public health message they wanted to put out to the country? Yet under a lot of pressure from Boris - you can add bullying to his character defects - they both played dumb. Better to have refused to prop up Boris than to have been used as mugs.
Whitty and Vallance weren't even allowed to answer a basic question of whether they would recommend a 50-mile round trip with your child in the back of the car as a good way of checking if your eyesight was fit to drive. That was about as straightforward a scientific yes or no question as you could get. But still they didn't dare say a word.
Other pressers have been tetchy and opaque, but this one had been a new low. Boris hadn't demeaned himself because there's nothing left to demean. But he had demeaned his CMO and CSA and he had demeaned the UK by treating its citizens with total contempt. In saving Dom, he has ruined what was left of his credibility. And all across the country, Tory MPs and Tory voters were beginning to ask themselves one simple question. Ever get the feeling you've been had?!
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Slim on May 29, 2020, 11:13:02 am
So it turns out that Durham Police are saying that Dominic "might have been guilty of a minor breach" of the lockdown. This was reported earlier by some of the usual Twitter suspects as "Durham Police confirm Dominic Cummings broke the law", and naturally the lie had travelled halfway round the world before the truth had managed to get its boots on.

So: Dominic Cummings might, or might not have been guilty of a minor breach of the lockdown. And given that the police are implicitly telling us that he might not (yep - that is exactly what it means) and that even on the day that they investigated the matter they decided there weren't sufficient grounds to take it further, it seems to me that the PM is wholly entitled to come to his own view, based on Dominic's personal account.

And as for the hysterical crap that DC's actions might be costing lives because it's OK for a chief government advisor to break the rules - sorry, no. The media is telling you that story. Dominic Cummings has told you, explicitly - the exact opposite. Of course the likes of C4 News and the correctly self-styled Airhead from Newsnight will never take that responsibility for their own actions and their own ratings and whatever attention they can get for themselves.

Try and look at the wider picture. If you can. Dominic Cummings has been a hate figure for the left for years, and certainly since he helped get Brexit over the line, then helped propel Boris Johnson to power with a large majority. If you honestly think that this nonsense is about anything else, well -

Words fail. And as much as I admire the man, I'm sick of hearing about him now.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Slim on May 29, 2020, 11:16:56 am
Quote from: DavidL on Yesterday at 00:07:54Track and Trace. Another balls-up to add to the list.

It's very easy to criticise but huge and complex undertakings like this almost never "just work" straight out of the blocks. I've been involved in dozens of large-scale IT projects that were delivered late, over budget and/or didn't work properly initially.

I remain incredibly impressed by the logistical and operational effort that the government has put into this. Enjoy yourself, though. You've got the easy job, slagging it all off.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on May 29, 2020, 14:02:24 pm
Quote from: Slim on Yesterday at 11:16:56It's very easy to criticise but huge and complex undertakings like this almost never "just work" straight out of the blocks. I've been involved in dozens of large-scale IT projects that were delivered late, over budget and/or didn't work properly initially.

I remain incredibly impressed by the logistical and operational effort that the government has put into this. Enjoy yourself, though. You've got the easy job, slagging it all off.
I don't find it gratifying in the least to find that, again, government incompetence has been so visible. Once again promises were made about what would be implemented and by when. 'World class' we were assured by the PM. This week we were told it would be in place.
Now, we are told by the woman who is behind the track and trace system that it will not be working properly before the end of next month. Why do the government feel that it is necessary to design a 'new' system when we have one in place already? Why is it necessary for them to centralise the system to such an extent when experts are already in place locally? Why involve Serco? I truly do not understand why we are not implementing systems that have been shown to work well in other countries. If there was ever a time for 'best practice', I'd have thought it was now.
What is happening with the trial of the phone app? My guess is that is not going well on the IOW and criticisms of the system that were voiced when it was proposed are being exposed in a real situation. 
Surely you must admit that criticism is warranted? There must be a limit to your unwavering support.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Bisto on May 29, 2020, 14:30:39 pm
Quote from: Slim on Yesterday at 11:13:02Words fail. And as much as I admire the man, I'm sick of hearing about him now.
Words fail you? That would be a first!

If you're sick of hearing about him now that's too bad, stick your fingers in your ears, stop reading/listening to/watching the news if you don't like it.....but don't blame journalists for making hay while the sun shines....even Tory newspapers are criticising Cummings and Bojo, his glove puppet, and the shambles he is making of the Pandemic and plunging the Economy into a full blown Depression.....god knows you never miss an opportunity to crucify anyone you perceive to be a political enemy whenever they do anything wrong. So suck it up Tory boy!
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Bisto on May 29, 2020, 14:43:46 pm
Quote from: Slim on Yesterday at 11:13:02So it turns out that Durham Police are saying that Dominic "might have been guilty of a minor breach" of the lockdown. This was reported earlier by some of the usual Twitter suspects as "Durham Police confirm Dominic Cummings broke the law", and naturally the lie had travelled halfway round the world before the truth had managed to get its boots on.
So it looks like the Police have been leant on as well then, can't say I'm surprised when Bojo has been acting like a Dictator in press briefings....not so much Churchillian as Trumplike.

A Lie travelling half way round the world eh?.....Did it travel more quickly than Cummings lie about his 520 mile round journey to Durham and his 60 mile round trip to Barnard Castle to test if his eyesight was strong enough to make the 260 mile journey home? Wasn't as quick as his wife's lie that Cummings was bedridden for 10 days was it?!
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Bisto on May 29, 2020, 14:52:43 pm
Quote from: Slim on Yesterday at 11:13:02So: Dominic Cummings might, or might not have been guilty of a minor breach of the lockdown. And given that the police are implicitly telling us that he might not (yep - that is exactly what it means) and that even on the day that they investigated the matter they decided there weren't sufficient grounds to take it further, it seems to me that the PM is wholly entitled to come to his own view, based on Dominic's personal account.
Yeah, the Police obviously took the 3 line whip...probably told by a Senior Tory that if they prosecuted then it would force Bojo to sack Cummings and leave Bojo floundering.....and then he would have to lie to the Queen again, or have another affair, or take extended paternity leave....or go and stay on his Russian Mafia mates mountain resort...or hide in a fridge.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Bisto on May 29, 2020, 15:05:00 pm
Quote from: Slim on Yesterday at 11:13:02And as for the hysterical crap that DC's actions might be costing lives because it's OK for a chief government advisor to break the rules - sorry, no. The media is telling you that story. Dominic Cummings has told you, explicitly - the exact opposite. Of course the likes of C4 News and the correctly self-styled Airhead from Newsnight will never take that responsibility for their own actions and their own ratings and whatever attention they can get for themselves.
Sorry no! We don't need the media to see what is going on in front of our eyes...Cummings own press briefing contradicted his wifes story....either he was bedridden with Covid29 or he wasn't...he clearly wasn't...so she lied....now, that is established FACT! So, are we to believe that the master strategist didn't put his wife up to that lie?

He obviously lied about his eyesight ..what an absolute bullshit excuse!....he was seen in Barnard Castle with his wife on her birthday....how very convenient.

So, supposedly he made a four hour car journey and hothoused his 4 year old son and himself in the car with his INFECTED WIFE...and yet that was for his sons safety?! feck Off! 

Someone with his connections and money couldn't find local childcare?! 

feck Off!


His wife told blatant Lies in her interview...he told bare faced lies in front of the TV CAMERAS...with NO APOLOGY..so there's no need for the Media to persuade the public of anything, we saw it all for ourselves.....and YES, if people have come out of the lockdown too early because of Cummings and the other public figures then there could be an early second spike and if so Cummings and the others will be partly responsible for it


You are losing your shit over this, I'd suggest you take a break from this story because it's not going away until Cummings does and you really are making yourself look like a mug at the moment!
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Bisto on May 29, 2020, 15:12:42 pm
Quote from: Slim on Yesterday at 11:13:02Try and look at the wider picture. If you can. Dominic Cummings has been a hate figure for the left for years, and certainly since he helped get Brexit over the line, then helped propel Boris Johnson to power with a large majority. If you honestly think that this nonsense is about anything else, well -

Words fail. 
Stick your misplaced condescension where the sun don't shine.

I can believe that youre that out of touch with the public mood, but not that you're that unobservant or unaware...
.....70% of people polled want Cummings sacked....The Tories got 43.6% of the vote in the general election...I'm sure you can do the maths
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Nïckslïkk2112 on May 29, 2020, 15:27:49 pm
Quote from: Bisto on Yesterday at 14:43:46So it looks like the Police have been leant on as well then, 
Tinfoil hat much?

The Polis would have loved to come over all big and out one over on the man.
Former Durham chief of Polis was all for it, he was adamant Cummings had broken the law.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Bisto on May 29, 2020, 15:39:13 pm
Quote from: Nïckslïkk2112 on Yesterday at 15:27:49Tinfoil hat much?

The Polis would have loved to come over all big and out one over on the man.
Former Durham chief of Polis was all for it, he was adamant Cummings had broken the law.
Bigger picture!

If Cummings is sacked and Boris doesn't get a grip (highly probable given his performances WITH Cummings) his leadership could collapse....who knows where that might lead?...Id say im on just the right side of fruitloop but there are plenty of genuine tinfoil hat wearers, anarchists and rentamobs out there waiting for their moment and there are a LOT of VERY angry, frustrated and unhappy, ordinary people too...
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Bisto on May 29, 2020, 16:42:58 pm
Stolen from elsewhere.....

The week in Tory (Cummings special):

1. Dominic Cummings, one of the few men to have ever been found in contempt of Parliament, moved onto contempt for everything

2. When the story broke, and he was accused of doing things that look bad, he said he didn't care how things looked

3. Then ministers said press outrage meant nothing, only the opinion of the people mattered

4. Then polls showed 52% of people wanted Cummings to resign

5. So Cummings decided to show the public some respect, by turning up 30 minutes late to make his explanation

6. He began by saying he wasn't speaking for the govt, which must be why he was in the Rose Garden of 10 Downing Street

7. Then the self-styled "enemy of the Islington media elite" said his wife, who works in the media, had been ill in their house in Islington

8. But she was only a bit ill, so he popped home, got himself nice and infected, then went back to Downing Street for meetings with lots of vitally important people in the middle of a national crisis

9. But then he got ill too, so then it was suddenly important

10. Sadly he couldn't get childcare in London, even though 3 immediate relatives live within 3 miles of his London home

11. So because he was carrying a virus that can cross a 2 metre distance and kill, he immediately locked
himself in a car with his wife and child for 5 hours

12. He then drove 264 miles without stopping in a Land Rover that gets maybe 25 MPG

13. Then the scourge of the metropolitan elites made himself extra-relatable by describing his family's sprawling country estate, multiple houses and idyllic woodlands

14. He explained that he'd warned about a coronavirus years ago in his blog

15. Then it was revealed he actually secretly amended old blogs after he'd returned from Durham

16. And anyway, if he'd warned years ago, why was he so massively unprepared and slow to react?

17. Then he said he was too ill to move for a week

18. But in the middle of that week, presumably with "wonky eyes", he drove his child to hospital

19. Then he said that to test his "wonky eyes" he put his wife and child in a car and drove 30 miles on public roads

20. Then it was revealed his wife drives, so there was no reason for the "eye test", cos she could have driven them back to London

21. Then it was revealed the "eye test" trip to a local tourist spot took place on his wife's birthday

22. Then cameras filmed as he threw a cup onto the table, smirked and left

23. And then it emerged his wife had written an article during the time in Dunham, describing their experience of being in lockdown in London, which you'd definitely do if you weren't hiding anything

24. A govt scientific advisor said "more people will die" as a result of what Cummings had done.

25. Boris Johnson said he "wouldn't mark Cummings " down for what he'd done.

26. The Attorney General said it was ok to break the law if you were acting on instinct

27. The Health Minister said it was OK to endanger public health if you meant well

28. Johnson said Cummings' "story rings true" because his own eyesight was fine before coronavirus, but now he needs glasses

29. But in an interview with The Telegraph 5 years ago, Johnson said he needed glasses cos he was "blind as a bat"

30. Michael Gove went on TV and said it was "wise" to drive 30 miles on public roads with your family in the car to test your eyesight

31. The DVLA tweeted that you should never, ever do this

32. Then ministers started claiming Cummings had to go to Durham because he feared crowds attacking his home. The streets were empty because we were observing the lockdown.

33. And then a minister finally resigned

34. Steve Baker, Richard Littlejohn, Isabel Oakeshott, Tim Montgomerie, Jan Moir, Ian Dale, Julia Hartley Brewer, 30 Tory MPs, half a dozen bishops and the actual Daily Mail said Cummings should go

35. The govt suggested we can ignore them, because they're all left-wingers

36. Then a vicar asked Matt Hancock if other people who had been fined for doing exactly what Cummings did would get their fine dropped. Matt Hancock said he'd suggest it to the govt

37. The govt said no within an hour. Cummings' statement had lasted longer than that

38. And if the guidelines were so clear, why were people being stopped and fined for driving to find childcare in the first place?

39. Then a new poll found people who wanted Cummings sacked had risen from 52% to 57%

40. Cummings is considered the smartest man in the govt

41. And in the middle of all this, in case we take our eye off it: we reached 60,000 deaths. One of the highest per capita death rates worldwide.

42. We still face Brexit under this lot.

43. It's 4 years until an election
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Matt2112 on May 29, 2020, 18:54:05 pm
Dishy Rishi is a nice guy though, isn't he?
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on May 29, 2020, 19:33:48 pm
Quote from: Matt2112 on Yesterday at 18:54:05Dishy Rishi is a nice guy though, isn't he?
Future PM?
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Nïckslïkk2112 on May 29, 2020, 22:28:08 pm
Quote from: DavidL on Yesterday at 19:33:48Future PM?
I hope not!

It would be truly awful if the Nasty Party gave us the first female PM and the first BAME PM.
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: DavidL on May 29, 2020, 22:32:22 pm
Quote from: Nïckslïkk2112 on Yesterday at 22:28:08I hope not!

It would be truly awful if the Nasty Party gave us the first female PM and the first BAME PM.
;D 
Truly galling for Labour in particular, of course!
Title: Re: This is Coronavirus- Do not panic!
Post by: Nïckslïkk2112 on May 29, 2020, 22:41:25 pm
Quote from: DavidL on Yesterday at 22:32:22;D
Truly galling for Labour in particular, of course!
There would be much frothing at the mouth and things being said that a Tory would be hung, drawn and quartered for if they said it.