The National Midday Sun

Signals => General Chat - English => Topic started by: Matt2112 on July 27, 2019, 04:07:58 am

Title: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: Matt2112 on July 27, 2019, 04:07:58 am
Following on from the thread about BoJo's ultimately successful campaign to become PM.

Tell you what, I've just happened upon BBC News coverage where me mate Hilary Benn stands up and shows the Labour front bench how you calmly ask a question of a senior Tory that has him scrabbling around for an answer he can't give.

To think, Corbyn gave this class act the Spanish Archer from the shadow cabinet.  :-\
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: Richard_2112 on July 30, 2019, 17:58:19 pm
Already touting the idea of direct rule of Northern Ireland and the pound has hit a two year low. We're in for a very rough ride with Boris at the helm...
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: Slim on July 30, 2019, 21:16:33 pm
Hillary Benn is a very clever and capable politician, but I think he's been intent on defying a referendum result since before he became chairman of the select committee for Brexit. You might think he's a class act; I certainly don't.

I'll take a politician like Boris, who will defend the people's interest and fight our country's corner, thanks. Rather than sell it out in the service of foreign powers like Benn.
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: Nïckslïkk2112 on July 30, 2019, 23:14:36 pm
Quote from: Richard_2112 on July 30, 2019, 17:58:19 pmAlready touting the idea of direct rule of Northern Ireland 
Good.

Then do the same for Scotland and Wales.

One United Kingdom. One Parliament. Simples.
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: Matt2112 on July 31, 2019, 09:15:50 am
Hilary Benn May be a remainer but as far as I can tell he accepts the result and I've only ever seen a pragmatic and dignified stance on his part.  If in any way he intends to undermine the result then I think he is profoundly wrong to hold that position.  But he doesn't strike me as having a Swinson-esque zeal to sabotage the vote come what may.

Look at Hilary Benn in the round though and he's a genuinely progressive and liberal politician who serves his constituency extremely well.  He's wasted in a party led by Corbyn.
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: rufus the dawg on July 31, 2019, 23:09:49 pm
let's talk about a racist and a liar....Boris Johnson.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXyO_MC9g3k&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXyO_MC9g3k&feature=youtu.be)
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: Nïckslïkk2112 on July 31, 2019, 23:17:28 pm
Liar? Yes, he's a politician.
Racist? Probably not, he's Turkish.
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: The Letter R on August 01, 2019, 09:17:46 am
I'm no grand supporter of Boris but will give him a couple of months and see what he does with the mess we're in.
If he can get a better deal out of the EU I will be very surprised - best I can think is a fudge on the TM deal over the backstop. Personally I can see us still being in the EU at Christmas......
The main problem I have with him is that although he can at times talk a good game I never know if I can believe him or if indeed he believes himself at times......
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: zoony on August 01, 2019, 15:34:28 pm
Quote from: The Letter R on August 01, 2019, 09:17:46 amI'm no grand supporter of Boris but will give him a couple of months and see what he does with the mess we're in.
If he can get a better deal out of the EU I will be very surprised - best I can think is a fudge on the TM deal over the backstop. Personally I can see us still being in the EU at Christmas......
The main problem I have with him is that although he can at times talk a good game I never know if I can believe him or if indeed he believes himself at times......
The 'backstop' will not be a problem to a PM who is committed to taking us out of the EU, unlike the last one. It is nothing more than a voodoo spell to bewitch and befuddle the feeble minded, and was invented by Theresa May as a sneaky customs union that would continue to bind us to Brussels rules.
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: döm on August 01, 2019, 15:56:39 pm
Unfortunately the backstop will be a problem.  The Good Friday agreement which has maintained relative peace in Northern Ireland for the last couple of decades and which all parties have agreed will be maintained is dependent on no border between Northern Ireland and the Republic.

Leaving without a deal and on WTO terms necessitates a border between the 2 countries.  Boris Johnson will need to be a genius to square that circle.  If he manages it kudos to him!
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: zoony on August 01, 2019, 16:00:26 pm
Quote from: döm on August 01, 2019, 15:56:39 pmUnfortunately the backstop will be a problem.  The Good Friday agreement which has maintained relative peace in Northern Ireland for the last couple of decades and which all parties have agreed will be maintained is dependent on no border between Northern Ireland and the Republic.

Leaving without a deal and on WTO terms necessitates a border between the 2 countries.  Boris Johnson will need to be a genius to square that circle.  If he manages it kudos to him!
We'll see mate. Remainers will just cling to everything to try and see democracy fail.
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: Nick on August 01, 2019, 16:19:37 pm
Problem is Zoony you have to overcome this logic..https://twitter.com/mwalker50/status/1156712418258694149 see the Jonathon Powell interview from Newsnight, great explanation of the issue.
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: Slim on August 01, 2019, 16:46:48 pm
Quote from: Matt2112 on July 31, 2019, 09:15:50 amHilary Benn May be a remainer but as far as I can tell he accepts the result and I've only ever seen a pragmatic and dignified stance on his part.  If in any way he intends to undermine the result then I think he is profoundly wrong to hold that position.  But he doesn't strike me as having a Swinson-esque zeal to sabotage the vote come what may.

Look at Hilary Benn in the round though and he's a genuinely progressive and liberal politician who serves his constituency extremely well.  He's wasted in a party led by Corbyn.

There's nothing liberal about him, he's just less honest than Swinson.

Quite encouraged to read the most recent YouGov voting intention poll:

(http://truth.justdied.com/images/yougovaug2019.png)


That's 45% in total for the democratic centre parties, and the Conservative figure reflects an impressive first week for the new Prime Minister, as does the left's obvious fear. Even I didn't expect him to be quite so assured and sure-footed so early on.

There's no doubt that Boris' conciliatory, constructive determination to fight the UK's corner and offer commendable clarity on Brexit for a change has been popular.

The important thing now is that the democratic mainstream parties work constructively together for the same goal against our enemies abroad and the Little Europeans at home.

I'll be interested to see how long the EU's intransigence lasts in the current circumstances. What a shame we couldn't have taken the same approach three years ago.
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: BasspedalMan on August 01, 2019, 17:06:20 pm
Boris is a self-serving Twat, although I should really have found out what the Latin for 'Twat' was... If he has any nuts whatsoever he will revoke article 50 and start again. I am not scared of Brexit per-se but the horlicks made of it up to now means that any outcome is completely untenable.

I have to admit to enjoying his first foray to the Dispatch Box though!
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: Slim on August 01, 2019, 17:46:47 pm
Well - revoking Article 50 would still be something of a betrayal of the referendum result, even if the intention is to resubmit it and start afresh. Because it's been over three years now and we need certainty, and closure.
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: DavidL on August 01, 2019, 19:19:04 pm
Quote from: BasspedalMan on August 01, 2019, 17:06:20 pmBoris is a self-serving Twat, although I should really have found out what the Latin for 'Twat' was... If he has any nuts whatsoever he will revoke article 50 and start again. I am not scared of Brexit per-se but the horlicks made of it up to now means that any outcome is completely untenable.

I have to admit to enjoying his first foray to the Dispatch Box though!
You say you're not scared of Brexit.....but you're clearly against it. If leaving the EU is achieved, the outcome is tenable and has a democratic mandate.
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: Nick on August 01, 2019, 20:49:21 pm
Quote from: zoony on August 01, 2019, 15:34:28 pmThe 'backstop' will not be a problem to a PM who is committed to taking us out of the EU, unlike the last one. It is nothing more than a voodoo spell to bewitch and befuddle the feeble minded, and was invented by Theresa May as a sneaky customs union that would continue to bind us to Brussels rules.
The backstop was devised by Brits and conceded by the EU. You can't make this stuff up.
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: Slim on August 02, 2019, 09:37:05 am
Quote from: Nick on August 01, 2019, 20:49:21 pmThe backstop was devised by Brits and conceded by the EU. You can't make this stuff up.
I'm not sure that's true, but it's unimportant. It was agreed provisionally by May and the EU. It was partly responsible for a wave of resignations of senior ministers. It's not acceptable to the current government or parliament. And it's dead now.

So here's a sorry little tale, but a timely lesson for the Conservative Party:

(http://truth.justdied.com/images/brecon.png)
That's 49.5% of the vote for the democratic centre, but of course - it's split, and came to nothing. Despite a strongly pro-democratic, pro-Leave Conservative Party the Brexit Party did extremely well, with three times the share of the vote that UKIP managed in 2017. The voters will not trust the Tories until they get the referendum result over the line, and that's why there can't be a General Election until it's done.

Unless Boris and Nigel can cook up some sort of electoral pact of course, which I'd love to see.

The official opposition nearly lost their deposit during a mid-term by-election. That's a seat where they got 18% of the vote in 2017. It all makes for a very unpredictable and dangerous environment, with the British People walking a razor's edge between betrayal and salvation.
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: DavidL on August 02, 2019, 10:11:44 am
Labour: 5.3% ;D

"Uh-oh, Jeremy Corbyn"

;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: Matt2112 on August 02, 2019, 10:40:03 am
Played a blinder there have the LDs; beat Labour to the punch months ago with a clear and firm alternative to Brexit, negotiated pacts with the Greens and PC to increase their vote share, elected a dynamic young leader over a stuffy, anonymous older one and it has all worked an absolute treat (though, to be clear, I take no pleasure from it).

James Cleverly's sour grapes this morning where he described the LD's "dirty back-room deals" may come back to haunt him when the backlash comes and the Tories make a pact with Farage.  Ah, so that will be alright, then, Mr Cleverly.

Politics is broken at the moment.
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: Nïckslïkk2112 on August 02, 2019, 11:02:52 am
Quote from: Matt2112 on August 02, 2019, 10:40:03 amPolitics is broken at the moment.
Not so sure it's ever worked right.
However, the disconnect between the elected and the electorate has never been so great, at least not under universal suffrage.

We need a lowlife reality TV watching party.
A bleeding heart Liberal snowflake party.
And a heads down, get on with it, life's a bitch and then you die party.

I'd vote for the latter.
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: zoony on August 02, 2019, 23:59:03 pm
Quote from: Matt2112 on August 02, 2019, 10:40:03 amPlayed a blinder there have the LDs; beat Labour to the punch months ago with a clear and firm alternative to Brexit, negotiated pacts with the Greens and PC to increase their vote share, elected a dynamic young leader over a stuffy, anonymous older one and it has all worked an absolute treat (though, to be clear, I take no pleasure from it).

James Cleverly's sour grapes this morning where he described the LD's "dirty back-room deals" may come back to haunt him when the backlash comes and the Tories make a pact with Farage.  Ah, so that will be alright, then, Mr Cleverly.

Politics is broken at the moment.
Dynamic young leader? You mean another crackpot who refuses to accept democracy mate!
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: Matt2112 on August 04, 2019, 02:28:32 am
Quote from: zoony on August 02, 2019, 23:59:03 pmDynamic young leader? You mean another crackpot who refuses to accept democracy mate!
I don't think they're mutually exclusive, Rob.  She's attracting votes.

I voted remain on balance, but the prevailing vote was for leave. So as far as I'm concerned, we leave, and that is that.

Swinson is an extreme remainer only because she knows it gets votes from a deeply resentful 48%; otherwise, the LDs would be toast.

And I take no pleasure from any of it pal.
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: DavidL on August 04, 2019, 09:58:09 am
Quote from: Matt2112 on August 04, 2019, 02:28:32 amI don't think they're mutually exclusive, Rob.  She's attracting votes.

I voted remain on balance, but the prevailing vote was for leave. So as far as I'm concerned, we leave, and that is that.

Swinson is an extreme remainer only because she knows it gets votes from a deeply resentful 48%; otherwise, the LDs would be toast.

And I take no pleasure from any of it pal.
Exactly. Respect to you, sir.
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: zoony on August 04, 2019, 20:01:33 pm
Quote from: Matt2112 on August 04, 2019, 02:28:32 amI don't think they're mutually exclusive, Rob.  She's attracting votes.

I voted remain on balance, but the prevailing vote was for leave. So as far as I'm concerned, we leave, and that is that.

Swinson is an extreme remainer only because she knows it gets votes from a deeply resentful 48%; otherwise, the LDs would be toast.

And I take no pleasure from any of it pal.
Fair comment mate.
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: rufus the dawg on September 18, 2019, 13:24:56 pm
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-hospital-nhs-brexit-parent-whipps-cross-university-london-a9110161.html (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-hospital-nhs-brexit-parent-whipps-cross-university-london-a9110161.html)
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: The Letter R on September 20, 2019, 09:30:05 am
Quote from: rufus the dawg on September 18, 2019, 13:24:56 pmhttps://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-hospital-nhs-brexit-parent-whipps-cross-university-london-a9110161.html (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-hospital-nhs-brexit-parent-whipps-cross-university-london-a9110161.html)
I'm no big fan of Boris but it is now known this man is a Labour activist - he has even posted as much online.
Seems like they were both looking for a press opportunity........
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: döm on September 24, 2019, 12:17:02 pm
Faith restored in the UK's unwritten constitution.

Boris Johnson's status as a lying charlatan confirmed by the highest court in  the land.

What will the pm do now. Surely not the decent and correct thing and resign?
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: The Letter R on September 24, 2019, 14:43:21 pm
Quote from: döm on September 24, 2019, 12:17:02 pmFaith restored in the UK's unwritten constitution.

Boris Johnson's status as a lying charlatan confirmed by the highest court in  the land.

What will the pm do now. Surely not the decent and correct thing and resign?
Well ( and I'm not supporting him here ) but he has tried to get an election called but the errr "opposition" not actually sure who this is now though refused - maybe JC will grow some balls at his conference .........
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: döm on September 24, 2019, 15:43:50 pm
Quote from: The Letter R on September 24, 2019, 14:43:21 pmWell ( and I'm not supporting him here ) but he has tried to get an election called but the errr "opposition" not actually sure who this is now though refused - maybe JC will grow some balls at his conference .........
Just like prorogation his call for an election was simply a device to get a no deal brexit through the back door. Parliament saw through this and acted accordingly.

An General Election will happen but only when Brexit has been sorted or paused to allow it to take place.
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: rufus the dawg on September 24, 2019, 20:00:01 pm
Quote from: The Letter R on September 24, 2019, 14:43:21 pmWell ( and I'm not supporting him here ) but he has tried to get an election called but the errr "opposition" not actually sure who this is now though refused - maybe JC will grow some balls at his conference .........
half true!

There is no mandate for WTO brexit, which is what parliament were stopping.
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: Nïckslïkk2112 on September 24, 2019, 20:23:16 pm
Quote from: döm on September 24, 2019, 15:43:50 pmJust like prorogation his call for an election was simply a device to get a no deal brexit through the back door. 
In your opinion. Who knows the inner machinations of the mind of Europhile Boris.


QuoteParliament saw through this and acted accordingly.

Just as it is my opinion that Parliament is trying to stop Brexit, an act that goes against the biggest FACT in this whole saga - the people voted to leave.
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: döm on September 24, 2019, 20:57:38 pm
Quote from: Nïckslïkk2112 on September 24, 2019, 20:23:16 pmIn your opinion. Who knows the inner machinations of the mind of Europhile Boris.


Just as it is my opinion that Parliament is trying to stop Brexit, an act that goes against the biggest FACT in this whole saga - the people voted to leave.
How many voted to leave without a deal?

We'll never know but its safe to assume it would be a log less than 17 million
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: Nick on September 24, 2019, 21:25:36 pm
Quote from: Nïckslïkk2112 on September 24, 2019, 20:23:16 pmIn your opinion. Who knows the inner machinations of the mind of Europhile Boris.


Just as it is my opinion that Parliament is trying to stop Brexit, an act that goes against the biggest FACT in this whole saga - the people voted to leave.
11-0 you lost get over it.
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: zoony on September 24, 2019, 21:43:01 pm
Quote from: döm on September 24, 2019, 12:17:02 pmWhat will the pm do now. Surely not the decent and correct thing and resign?
Corbyn has done things a lot worse than what Boris has, but he won't resign.
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: zoony on September 24, 2019, 21:46:44 pm
Quote from: döm on September 24, 2019, 20:57:38 pmHow many voted to leave without a deal?


How many times do you want telling that there were no options to vote for a deal or not! It was LEAVE or REMAIN!
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: rufus the dawg on September 25, 2019, 00:39:14 am
Quote from: zoony on September 24, 2019, 21:46:44 pmHow many times do you want telling that there were no options to vote for a deal or not! It was LEAVE or REMAIN!
...and "WTO" was not on the table.

Norway, switzerland, stay in single market were the options and they were going to be the easiest deals in the world. That is what we were told, rewriting history does not make it true.

No deal is a joke any way, because you leave on wto terms then negotiate a deal in an even weaker position.
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: rufus the dawg on September 25, 2019, 00:44:42 am
Quote from: Nïckslïkk2112 on September 24, 2019, 20:23:16 pmJust as it is my opinion that Parliament is trying to stop Brexit, an act that goes against the biggest FACT in this whole saga - the people voted to leave.
Did they, what deal did they vote for? Do you know the minds 17.4 million people?

Get a deal and put it to the people. The deal that will be put forward was not the deal during the referendum, you want democracy, that would be the most democratic option.
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: rufus the dawg on September 25, 2019, 00:45:55 am
Quote from: zoony on September 24, 2019, 21:43:01 pmCorbyn has done things a lot worse than what Boris has, but he won't resign.
Gawd what a dreadful man.
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: DavidL on September 25, 2019, 00:48:19 am
Boris is fulfilling all my expectations of his suitability to be PM. I've said I'll reserve final judgement until 1st November but it's looking less and less like it will be a surprise to me.
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: DavidL on September 25, 2019, 00:53:04 am
Quote from: rufus the dawg on September 25, 2019, 00:44:42 amGet a deal and put it to the people. The deal that will be put forward was not the deal during the referendum, you want democracy, that would be the most democratic option.
I see nothing wrong with that, rufus. Two options on the paper:
Deal or No Deal. That respects the result of the referendum.
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: rufus the dawg on September 25, 2019, 00:56:11 am
He said "I don't agree with the judgement"

No you don't like the judgement, you have to agree with it and open parliament.
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: rufus the dawg on September 25, 2019, 00:57:21 am
Quote from: DavidL on September 25, 2019, 00:53:04 amI see nothing wrong with that, rufus. Two options on the paper:
Deal or No Deal. That respects the result of the referendum.
No deal was not an option during the referendum dear boy catch up
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: DavidL on September 25, 2019, 01:02:56 am
Quote from: rufus the dawg on September 25, 2019, 00:57:21 amNo deal was not an option during the referendum dear boy catch up
Leave the EU was and Leave the EU won...no mention of deals. Whilst you think we are stupid, I'm sure you don't think the EU is. Why would they agree a deal for the UK that was an attractive option if they knew Remain was an option?
That's a rigged vote....and you know it.
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: rufus the dawg on September 25, 2019, 01:14:53 am
You said you were stupid I possible could not comment?! hehehehe

There were plenty of mentions of deals, Norway, Switzerland, stay in single market stay in customs union, etc

You agree no deal and leaving the EU is bad. Worse than remaining you see. If you want to stay out of the EU for 40 years leavers need to bring remain voters on to leaves side, taking remain off the table will just antagonise remain voters and we will rejoin the EU in 10 years.

Lets take this over to the brexit page david? otherwise we are going to be in trouble and we will get voted against by 11 supreme administrators!
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: döm on September 25, 2019, 01:24:48 am
Quote from: zoony on September 24, 2019, 21:46:44 pmHow many times do you want telling that there were no options to vote for a deal or not! It was LEAVE or REMAIN!
And that's why the country is in such a catastrophic mess today.

Such a blunt instrument for such a complex procedure
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: DavidL on September 25, 2019, 08:00:11 am
Quote from: döm on September 25, 2019, 01:24:48 amAnd that's why the country is in such a catastrophic mess today.

Such a blunt instrument for such a complex procedure
Not a procedure...a choice. Do you grapple with the complexities of how a party will enact their manifesto at a GE?
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: Bisto on September 25, 2019, 10:06:49 am
Quote from: DavidL on September 25, 2019, 08:00:11 amNot a procedure...a choice. Do you grapple with the complexities of how a party will enact their manifesto at a GE?

Don't be so naive/duplicitous, the 'vote' was only the initial part of the massively complex process of Leaving
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: DavidL on September 25, 2019, 10:45:21 am
Quote from: Bisto on September 25, 2019, 10:06:49 amDon't be so naive/duplicitous, the 'vote' was only the initial part of the massively complex process of Leaving
As opposed to the simple process of running a country?
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: rufus the dawg on September 25, 2019, 11:06:58 am
Quote from: Bisto on September 25, 2019, 10:06:49 amDon't be so naive/duplicitous, the 'vote' was only the initial part of the massively complex process of Leaving
I agree. There was no plan during the referendum, any ideas Leave had were either lies or unable to be enacted. They therefore won the referendum with false pretences.

.'. The only way out of this is to get a deal (maybe TMs deal) and put it to the people; and if that deal wins the government will then negotiate a final deal and that need to go back to the people also against remain.

Leave keep going on about bringing democracy home, lets do it.

Democracy can not be based on lies.
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: DavidL on September 25, 2019, 11:32:05 am
Quote from: rufus the dawg on September 25, 2019, 11:06:58 amI agree. There was no plan during the referendum, any ideas Leave had were either lies or unable to be enacted. They therefore won the referendum with false pretences.



Democracy can not be based on lies.
Remain lost the referendum with false pretences
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: rufus the dawg on September 25, 2019, 11:39:50 am
Quote from: DavidL on September 25, 2019, 11:32:05 amRemain lost the referendum with false pretences
What is the bigger Lie. We had a referendum apparently about bringing democracy home and both sides lied! This shows the UK is broken.

The Lie about the referendum is that imo most people were not upset with the EU but were upset with the UK government. The Uk government have blamed the EU for UKs own failing......ie austerity

David you can not/ have not come up with a law you do not like the EU have have made. Remember we have only voted against 2% of all UK laws since 1999.

Better take this to brexit page.
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: Bisto on September 25, 2019, 11:58:36 am
Quote from: DavidL on September 25, 2019, 11:32:05 amRemain lost the referendum with false pretences
fecksake! Really?!

'He hit me first!'..../...."you are False News"

This is what pisses me off about so many Brexiters....get  the bigger fecking picture already!
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: DavidL on September 25, 2019, 12:56:25 pm
Quote from: Bisto on September 25, 2019, 11:58:36 amfecksake! Really?!

'He hit me first!'..../...."you are False News"

This is what pisses me off about so many Brexiters....get  the bigger fecking picture already!
I hear a cage a rattlin'   ;D ;D
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: döm on September 29, 2019, 11:56:40 am
From preparing "to die in a ditch" rather than stay in the EU after Oct 31st this morning he has said that he's not even prepared to resign

A major climb down incoming?
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: Bisto on September 29, 2019, 19:48:48 pm
Calls for inquiry into claims Johnson backers benefit from no-deal Brexit
Cabinet secretary urged to look into conflict of interest fears raised by Philip Hammond and Rachel Johnson
Michael Savage (https://www.theguardian.com/profile/michael-savage) Policy editor The Guardian
Sat 28 Sep 2019 12.06 EDT

The UK's most senior civil servant is under pressure to investigate Boris Johnson's financial backers following cross-party claims that unnamed individuals stand to benefit from the prime minister's willingness to pursue a no-deal Brexit.
John McDonnell, the shadow chancellor, has written to the cabinet secretary, Sir Mark Sedwill, asking if there may be a conflict of interest in Johnson's acceptance of support from hedge funds that could gain from an economic shock.
Earlier on Saturday, Philip Hammond, the former chancellor, suggested Johnson (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/28/philip-hammond-radical-tory-advisers-want-no-deal-brexit) was pursuing the interests of financial backers set to gain from a no-deal Brexit, in a major escalation of tensions in the prime minister's own party.

Hammond said he was repeating a comment made last week by Rachel Johnson, the prime minister's sister.
The former chancellor was accused by senior Tories of attempting a "smear" without evidence. However, Hammond was supported on Saturday by a series of MPs from across the Commons.
"Johnson is backed by speculators who have bet billions on a hard Brexit - and there is only one option that works for them: a crash-out no-deal that sends the currency tumbling and inflation soaring," Hammond wrote in the Times.
Downing Street has refused to comment on the claim.

Guto Bebb, a former Tory minister who was thrown out of the party for opposing a no-deal Brexit, said: "The dubious financiers who supported the 'leave' campaign and the prime minister's leadership campaign are betting against Britain. The PM should put the interests of the country first rather than facilitating a financial bonanza for a few."
Anna Soubry, the leader of Change UK, said: "This week's events are damning evidence that Boris Johnson has no moral compass. It gives me no pleasure to believe that Johnson is in hock to all manner of people and in particular those who don't give a toss about the livelihoods of our constituents but simply get even more rich gambling on our children's future."
However, the business minister Nadhim Zahawi said Hammond was peddling a conspiracy. "Philip you let yourself down by claiming speculators on 'no deal' are interfering in us leaving the EU," he tweeted. "This is an ugly smear that is completely untrue. If you know anything about finance or the City then you will know that."

Hammond and his team have not named any individual donors. However, hedge fund managers have backed Johnson. One of those is Crispin Odey, a fund manager who has also previously backed Vote Leave and Ukip. Over the summer, it was reported that his fund had made a £300m bet against British businesses and stood to profit from an economic slump in the UK. However, the fund also backed other British companies. Odey did not respond to a request for comment.
McDonnell said: "Given widespread concerns raised by the former chancellor Philip Hammond's comment today about Johnson's speculator sponsors profiteering from a no-deal Brexit, I am writing to Mark Sedwill, the cabinet secretary, to seek a Cabinet Office investigation into this potential conflict of interest."
The conflict of interest code for members of the House of Commons states: "Given that service in parliament is a public trust ... members are expected ... to fulfil their public duties with honesty and uphold the highest standards so as to avoid real or apparent conflicts of interests, and maintain and enhance public confidence and trust in the integrity of each member and in the House of Commons."
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: Slim on November 11, 2019, 01:03:25 am
Quote from: Matt2112 on August 02, 2019, 10:40:03 amJames Cleverly's sour grapes this morning where he described the LD's "dirty back-room deals" may come back to haunt him when the backlash comes and the Tories make a pact with Farage.  Ah, so that will be alright, then, Mr Cleverly.

This hasn't aged well.
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: Slim on November 11, 2019, 01:04:28 am
Quote from: Bisto on September 25, 2019, 10:06:49 amDon't be so naive/duplicitous, the 'vote' was only the initial part of the massively complex process of Leaving
Yes. But it was unambiguous.
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: Slim on November 11, 2019, 01:04:54 am
Quote from: Bisto on September 29, 2019, 19:48:48 pmCalls for inquiry into claims Johnson backers benefit from no-deal Brexit
Cabinet secretary urged to look into conflict of interest fears raised by Philip Hammond and Rachel Johnson
Michael Savage (https://www.theguardian.com/profile/michael-savage) Policy editor The Guardian
Sat 28 Sep 2019 12.06 EDT

The UK's most senior civil servant is under pressure to investigate Boris Johnson's financial backers following cross-party claims that unnamed individuals stand to benefit from the prime minister's willingness to pursue a no-deal Brexit.
John McDonnell, the shadow chancellor, has written to the cabinet secretary, Sir Mark Sedwill, asking if there may be a conflict of interest in Johnson's acceptance of support from hedge funds that could gain from an economic shock.
Earlier on Saturday, Philip Hammond, the former chancellor, suggested Johnson (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/28/philip-hammond-radical-tory-advisers-want-no-deal-brexit) was pursuing the interests of financial backers set to gain from a no-deal Brexit, in a major escalation of tensions in the prime minister's own party.

Hammond said he was repeating a comment made last week by Rachel Johnson, the prime minister's sister.
The former chancellor was accused by senior Tories of attempting a "smear" without evidence. However, Hammond was supported on Saturday by a series of MPs from across the Commons.
"Johnson is backed by speculators who have bet billions on a hard Brexit - and there is only one option that works for them: a crash-out no-deal that sends the currency tumbling and inflation soaring," Hammond wrote in the Times.
Downing Street has refused to comment on the claim.

Guto Bebb, a former Tory minister who was thrown out of the party for opposing a no-deal Brexit, said: "The dubious financiers who supported the 'leave' campaign and the prime minister's leadership campaign are betting against Britain. The PM should put the interests of the country first rather than facilitating a financial bonanza for a few."
Anna Soubry, the leader of Change UK, said: "This week's events are damning evidence that Boris Johnson has no moral compass. It gives me no pleasure to believe that Johnson is in hock to all manner of people and in particular those who don't give a toss about the livelihoods of our constituents but simply get even more rich gambling on our children's future."
However, the business minister Nadhim Zahawi said Hammond was peddling a conspiracy. "Philip you let yourself down by claiming speculators on 'no deal' are interfering in us leaving the EU," he tweeted. "This is an ugly smear that is completely untrue. If you know anything about finance or the City then you will know that."

Hammond and his team have not named any individual donors. However, hedge fund managers have backed Johnson. One of those is Crispin Odey, a fund manager who has also previously backed Vote Leave and Ukip. Over the summer, it was reported that his fund had made a £300m bet against British businesses and stood to profit from an economic slump in the UK. However, the fund also backed other British companies. Odey did not respond to a request for comment.
McDonnell said: "Given widespread concerns raised by the former chancellor Philip Hammond's comment today about Johnson's speculator sponsors profiteering from a no-deal Brexit, I am writing to Mark Sedwill, the cabinet secretary, to seek a Cabinet Office investigation into this potential conflict of interest."
The conflict of interest code for members of the House of Commons states: "Given that service in parliament is a public trust ... members are expected ... to fulfil their public duties with honesty and uphold the highest standards so as to avoid real or apparent conflicts of interests, and maintain and enhance public confidence and trust in the integrity of each member and in the House of Commons."

Oh dear! This one aged rather badly, as well.
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: Matt2112 on November 11, 2019, 01:22:32 am
Quote from: Slim on November 11, 2019, 01:03:25 amThis hasn't aged well.
Three months is a long time in politics.
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: rufus the dawg on November 11, 2019, 12:56:22 pm
Quote from: Slim on November 11, 2019, 01:04:54 amOh dear! This one aged rather badly, as well.
I think you will find it slowly builds a picture of a man that is corrupt, lies all the time, does know his own facts and useless at his job.
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: Slim on November 11, 2019, 21:09:10 pm
Quote from: Matt2112 on November 11, 2019, 01:22:32 amThree months is a long time in politics.
It is. But truth has a timeless quality :)
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: Matt2112 on November 12, 2019, 19:50:11 pm
Quote from: Slim on November 11, 2019, 21:09:10 pmIt is. But truth has a timeless quality :)
Yep!  Like hindsight. :)
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: Slim on November 15, 2019, 12:32:39 pm
Well - an observation about foresight might be more apt to this discussion. And if you'd asked me three months ago, I would have told you you were wrong.
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: rufus the dawg on November 15, 2019, 17:18:43 pm
Quote from: Slim on November 11, 2019, 21:09:10 pmIt is. But truth has a timeless quality :)
Boris and truth don't go in the same sentence.

Maybe Liar and boris works better. But you're from Faridge/ERG hq and there is no point in arguing with you. You would argue black is white to support him.
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: Matt2112 on November 16, 2019, 13:13:50 pm
Quote from: Slim on November 15, 2019, 12:32:39 pmWell - an observation about foresight might be more apt to this discussion. And if you'd asked me three months ago, I would have told you you were wrong.
But not why? Right, so with a little shifting of the  goal posts, you're crediting yourself with astute foresight...post hoc. Hmmm.

And what to make of the Telegraph report yesterday that - I stress, reportedly - the very thing I foresaw was being put into motion?  Sure, it may be just paper talk - what we know though is that your mate Nige has unilaterally enacted what amounts to a pact.

So, not so cut and dried I'd suggest; I reckon I was detecting the scent of something not radically dissimilar to what's being played out.
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: döm on November 19, 2019, 00:25:28 am
If anyone is interested in keeping tabs on how often Boris Johnson lies (clue, very) this is an excellent website.  The sickening thing is how often he goes unchallenged.

https://boris-johnson-lies.com/
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: Slim on November 19, 2019, 00:56:48 am
Quote from: rufus the dawg on November 15, 2019, 17:18:43 pmBoris and truth don't go in the same sentence.

Maybe Liar and boris works better. But you're from Faridge/ERG hq and there is no point in arguing with you. You would argue black is white to support him.
You aren't capable of forming a sensible, considered opinion, Rufus. That's all you're telling us here, apart from the fact that you can't spell.
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: Slim on November 19, 2019, 01:08:14 am
Quote from: döm on November 19, 2019, 00:25:28 amIf anyone is interested in keeping tabs on how often Boris Johnson lies (clue, very) this is an excellent website.  The sickening thing is how often he goes unchallenged.

https://boris-johnson-lies.com/

Some of these are self-evidently true, others are legitimate opinions that the editor of this site may unwisely disagree with, but are certainly not "lies".

If you take this site seriously, you've been lied to. And clearly, it's worked.

This one is the most laughable distortion, I think:

"Parliament refused finally to give approval for us to come out on October 31 which was a great disappointment"

Facts

Parliament did not refuse to give final approval to the UK leaving the EU on 31 October. It voted to approve (https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2019-10-22/debates/277C5A20-456D-469B-A415-D04AFFD83248/EuropeanUnion(WithdrawalAgreement)Bill) the second reading of the Withdrawal Agreement Bill. It rejected (https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/2019-10-22/debates/277C5A20-456D-469B-A415-D04AFFD83248/EuropeanUnion(WithdrawalAgreement)Bill#contribution-9FF7D3B1-6491-4922-A12F-2352FB53153B) the government's programme motion on the grounds that parliament would only have three days to debate the bill. It was the prime minister who took the decision (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/oct/28/boris-johnson-abandons-brexit-bill-in-new-push-for-december-election) to pause and then abandon the bill. Parliament had no opportunity to give final approval to the bill.

Verdict

The prime minister's statement was a lie.


That's absolute bollocks as you must surely know. Parliament knew full well that it was obstructing the UK from leaving the EU on 31st October. It had pretended to be afraid of a no deal Brexit, and it demonstrated that it was afraid of a deal as well.

All you're doing is demonstrating the depths of dishonestly that the Prime Minister's laughing stock detractors have to stoop to to try to call his integrity into question, a gutter tactic.

I read a few more. The one about Corbyn and the Novichok attack is hilarious; no sane person would believe the spin they put on that. Desperate stuff.

But I'm pleased and proud to be reminded that people like this are frightened of a Conservative government and an effective Conservative leader.
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: rufus the dawg on November 20, 2019, 16:46:59 pm
Quote from: Slim on November 19, 2019, 01:08:14 amThat's absolute bollocks as you must surely know. Parliament knew full well that it was obstructing the UK from leaving the EU on 31st October. It had pretended to be afraid of a no deal Brexit, and it demonstrated that it was afraid of a deal as well.
Of course you will give evidence of this?


Parliament voted to scrutinise BJ's deal - fact. BJ did not want parliament to scrutinise the deal because it was a bad deal, worse than TM's with a border down the Irish sea. I thought Brexit was about the UK parliament taking back control. Or what you are really meaning is that Parliament should do what Slims thinks it should do.

So the web site is correct and you are wrong again.
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: Slim on November 28, 2019, 14:57:46 pm
Quote from: rufus the dawg on November 20, 2019, 16:46:59 pmOf course you will give evidence of this?


Parliament voted to scrutinise BJ's deal - fact. BJ did not want parliament to scrutinise the deal because it was a bad deal, worse than TM's with a border down the Irish sea. I thought Brexit was about the UK parliament taking back control. Or what you are really meaning is that Parliament should do what Slims thinks it should do.

So the web site is correct and you are wrong again.

Needless to say, it is you who are wrong. But at least you're consistent.

The evidence is in the news, and in Parliament's actions. Parliament voted to delay the Prime Minister's deal. This was clearly a deliberate tactic to frustrate Brexit yet again - hitherto the excuse had been that Parliament was afraid of a "no deal" Brexit.

Hilarious that you think that opposition parties that had already stated unequivocally that they would reject the deal wanted to "scrutinise" it. Incredibly funny that you think that parties who by that time had sworn to frustrate any sort of Brexit, at any cost, wanted to "scrutinise" a bill to leave the EU. What they would actually have done was to amend the bill until it was no longer acceptable to the government, and no longer a viable vehicle to leave the EU.

You're easy game for them, Rufus. Too easy.
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: rufus the dawg on December 02, 2019, 10:46:24 am
You want BJs deal more than TMs deal. BJs deal is worse than TMs. BJs deal breaks up the UK. weird.

and you do not want parliament to scrutinise the deal put forward. I see, you do not want parliament then you want a dictatorship. 

So what if parliament frustrates bjs deal. You want UK parliament to rule the UK and that is what they are doing. They hold government to account. The problem with Thatcher Blair governments they were able to whip policy without any proper scrutiny and so making very bad policy.
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: Bisto on December 02, 2019, 12:55:38 pm
The Guardian

Boris Johnson still not agreeing to Andrew Neil interview
PM said he was 'perfectly happy' to be questioned but has not set date for appearance


Jim Waterston Media Editor
Sun 1 Dec 2019 15.29 GMTLast modified on Sun 1 Dec 2019 15.32 GMT

There is no sign that BORIS JOHNSON will agree to an interview with Andrew Neil before the end of the election campaign, with both the BBC and the Conservatives simply saying that negotiations are ongoing.
With little over a week until polling day, the prime minister has still not set a date for his one-on-one interview on primetime television, despite every other party leader agreeing to take part.
On Friday the BBC insisted it would not allow Johnson to appear on its flagship politics programmes until
 he had agreed a time to sit down with Neil, only to relent following the London Bridge terror attack (https://www.theguardian.com/media/2019/nov/30/bbc-allows-boris-johnson-interview-on-andrew-marr-show) on the basis that the country should hear from its prime minister during a time of crisis.

Johnson duly appeared on Sunday's edition of  (https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/dec/01/boris-johnson-blames-labour-for-release-of-london-bridge-killer-usman-khan)The Andrew Marr Show (https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/dec/01/boris-johnson-blames-labour-for-release-of-london-bridge-killer-usman-khan), where he insisted he was "perfectly happy to be interviewed by any interviewer called Andrew from the BBC" but there is still no confirmed date for the programme, with only a handful of potential slots available before polls open next Thursday.
Neil, who used to be Johnson's boss (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/media/the-interview-andrew-neil-i-dont-think-the-spectator-has-had-a-boss-for-the-last-two-years-5544522.html) at the Spectator, is perceived as one of the BBC's toughest political interviewers. His head-to-head with Jeremy Corbyn (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/nov/26/corbyn-resists-calls-to-apologies-to-british-jews-after-rabbis-claims) created days of negative headlines for Labour over antisemitism and funding for Labour's spending plans.

Corbyn's team are furious that Johnson appears to be trying to avoid being put under similar scrutiny, insisting they were assured the prime minister had signed up for a similar interview before agreeing to put up their candidate. BBC (https://www.theguardian.com/media/bbc) sources strongly insist they never told Labour the prime minister was definitely confirmed before Corbyn's appearance.

News websites such as MailOnline, which had taken the prime minister's comments as confirmation that he would definitely be interviewed by Neil, were contacted by the Conservatives and have now toned down their headlines (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7743319/Boris-Johnson-finally-commits-election-interview-Andrew-Neil.html). Both the Conservatives and the BBC have played down any chance of the interview being confirmed imminently.
A BBC spokesperson reiterated its stance that it urged "Boris Johnson to take part in the prime-time Andrew Neil (https://www.theguardian.com/media/andrew-neil) interview as other leaders have done".
Although the prime minister's appearances on Marr will have reached millions of people, a primetime weeknight interview with Neil would attract a substantially higher audience. But with the Lib Dem leader, Jo Swinson, scheduled to be interviewed by Neil on Wednesday night, and the Brexit party's Nigel Farage on Thursday, there are just three slots available for the prime minister to appear next week.
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: Bisto on December 02, 2019, 13:02:54 pm
Boris Johnsonb blames Labour for release of London Bridge killer
PM says it is 'ridiculous' that terrorist Usman Khan - freed from jail in 2018 - got out early

Peter Walker Political Correspondent
 @peterwalker99 (https://twitter.com/peterwalker99)
Sun 1 Dec 2019 12.28 GMTLast modified on Sun 1 Dec 2019 23.34 GMT

Boris Johnson has sought to blame Labour for the release of Usman Khan, the convicted terrorist who murdered two people on London Bridge on Friday, as the aftermath of the attack became an increasingly politicised election issue.
In an interview on BBC One's The Andrew Marr Show
 the prime minister said it was "ridiculous" that someone such as Khan should have been freed midway through an earlier sentence, and pledged to change the law.

He said: "The reason this killer was out on the streets was because of automatic early release which was brought in by a leftie government."
But challenged on the role of cuts to police, probation services and the judicial system under 10 years of Conservative rule, Johnson repeatedly sought to separate himself from this, and present his government as entirely separate.
"I've only been in office for 120 days," he said. Asked by Marr about decisions on public spending taken since 2010, Johnson replied: "I'm a new prime minister. We take a different approach."
In the interview Johnson repeatedly sought to make political capital over the attack by Khan, who was freed under licence a year ago after being jailed for his part in an al-Qaida-inspired bombing plot. Khan stabbed two people to death before being shot dead by police.
"I think it is ridiculous, I think it is repulsive, that individuals as dangerous as this man should be allowed out after serving only eight years and that's why we are going to change the law," Johnson told Marr.
He blamed the previous Labour government for the decision: "His release was necessary under the law because of the automatic early release scheme under which he was sentenced, that was the reality, and that was brought in by Labour with the support of Jeremy Corbyn and the rest of the Labour party."
The reality of the case is more complex (https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/dec/01/khan-attack-will-put-sentencing-and-release-of-terrorists-under-scrutiny). Khan was jailed in 2012 under an an indeterminate public protection sentence (IPP), a system scrapped under the coalition the same year. But an appeal in 2013 saw the sentence replaced by one of 16 years, and he was freed after serving just under half.
Since the attack, Johnson has pledged to end early release for people convicted of terrorism.
The father of the first of Khan's victims to be named, Jack Merritt, who worked to help rehabilitate prisoners, has said that his son (https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/dec/01/london-bridge-attack-victim-jack-merritt-tributes) "would not wish his death to be used as the pretext for more draconian sentences or for detaining people unnecessarily".
Johnson told Marr there were "probably about 74" convicted terrorists who had now been freed, saying these would be "properly invigilated to make sure there is no threat".
Speaking earlier on Sky News, Jeremy Corbyn argued that a better approach (https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/dec/01/jeremy-corbyn-calls-for-focus-on-rehabilitation-of-terrorists-in-prison) would be to focus more on prison services, and the parole and rehabilitation help prisoners receive when they leave.
Asked by Marr whether he should apologise for cuts to probation services, Johnson said: "Obviously, I think we should be investing more in the criminal justice system."
Asked why the Conservatives had not done this during their time in office, Johnson said his government was "new in our approach, and it's new in the way we will tackle issues of public services".

Questioned about the closure of nearly 300 magistrates and crown courts since 2010, he replied: "We of course understand, now is the time to make investments not just in the NHS, not just in policing, not just in education, but in our criminal justice system."
During an often combative interview, which saw Marr repeatedly interrupt the prime minister to ask him to address the question asked, Johnson gave ground on several issues, accepting that 40 promised new hospitals (https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/sep/29/from-40-hospitals-to-six-tories-nhs-numbers-dont-add-up) were not as yet fully funded.
"Of course not, but you don't commit seed money unless you have a convincing case and a rationale for building that hospital, and you're determined to go on and do it," he said.
Johnson also conceded that though he had entered No 10 promising to tackle the social care crisis, the Conservative manifesto contained few details of how this would be done. "I accept that the full plan needs to be developed," he said.
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: zoony on December 02, 2019, 17:12:50 pm
Quote from: rufus the dawg on December 02, 2019, 10:46:24 amBJs deal breaks up the UK. weird.


Nothing wrong with that.
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: Bisto on December 02, 2019, 23:26:50 pm
Quote from: zoony on December 02, 2019, 17:12:50 pmNothing wrong with that.
Slippery slope.....England is already fragmented politically, economically, culturally, socially and by religion...where do you draw the line? If the entire Union where to break up the pressure for a United Ireland would be overwhelming..which would inevitably lead to a resumption of full scale hostilities...the North/South divide in England would become even more stark...the rural economies and infrastructures would be decimated leading to inevitable mass urban and National migration from what are now the home nations to England and all that it would lead to.
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: Bisto on December 04, 2019, 21:35:36 pm
Boris Johnson claimed children of working mothers 'more likely to mug you'
Exclusive: PM made comments about low-income families in 2006 collection of essays


Heather Stewart Political editor
Wed 4 Dec 2019 08.57 EST

Boris Johnson made claims that children of working mothers in low-income families were "unloved and undisciplined" and more likely to "mug you on the street corner", it has emerged.

In a 2006 collection of journalism, entitled Have I Got Views for You, Johnson bemoaned the increasing tendency of women to work, saying they had been "socially gestapoed into the workplace".
"In the last 30 years an ever-growing proportion of British women have been 'incentivised' or socially gestapoed into the workplace, on what seems to me to be the dubious assumption that the harder a woman works the happier she will be, when I am not sure that is true of women or anyone else," he wrote.

In the book, published before he became mayor of London, Johnson said an increasing number of female graduates tended to pair up with male graduates - a process known by economists as "assortative mating" - and that they then pool their advantages.

"The result is that in families on lower incomes the women have absolutely no choice but to work, often with adverse consequences for family life and society as a whole - in that unloved and undisciplined children are more likely to become hoodies, Neets [not in education, employment or training] and mug you on the street corner."



Labour seized on the remarks. The shadow education secretary, Angela Rayner, herself a working mother, said: "It is obvious that Boris Johnson has nothing but contempt for women and working-class people.

"For him to speak about us in such a disgusting manner shows just how out of touch he is. It is clear he only ever stands up for the privileged few."



The remarks were the latest that have come to light during the election campaign, as the prime minister's attitudes, including to migrants and low-income households, as well as women, have come under scrutiny.

The book's title is a play on Have I Got News For You, the satirical BBC quiz show that Johnson appeared on several times, helping to build his public profile outside Westminster.



In his introduction to the collection, which is laced with anecdotes about his time as Brussels correspondent for the Telegraph, he says of his journalism: "You may sometimes think that's not how it is. But never mind, buster: this is how I see it."



He has repeatedly been challenged during the campaign about his past remarks - including on a special edition of the BBC's Question Time, which saw audience members press him about whether some of his writings had fuelled racism.



In past columns for the Daily Telegraph, which paid him £275,000 a year for his work until he became prime minister, Johnson said Muslim women wearing the burqa looked like "letterboxes". He has also been criticised in the past for using the phrases, "piccaninnies," and "watermelon smiles" (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/aug/07/boris-johnson-history-of-apologies-controversy-burqa-comments).

"Racist rhetoric is completely rife in this country, will you admit that you have personally contributed to this, and say the words: 'I'm sorry'," the questioner asked.

Johnson replied that he had, "genuinely never intended to cause hurt or pain to anybody and that is my intention." But he went on to defend his right to "speak out".

"If you go through all my articles with a fine-tooth comb and take out individual phrases there is no doubt that you can find things that can be made to seem offensive and of course I understand that," he said.




Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: Bisto on December 04, 2019, 21:40:14 pm
Johnson accused of racial stereotyping with view on Nigerians
Exclusive: prime minister made comment on people's 'interest in money' in a Spectator column


Josh Halliday (https://www.theguardian.com/profile/josh-halliday) and Joe Goodman
Thu 28 Nov 2019 08.29 GMTFirst published on Thu 28 Nov 2019 06.00 GMT

Boris Johnson (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/boris-johnson) has been accused of pushing racial stereotypes over a newly-unearthed column written during his time as editor of the Spectator in which he said young people had "an almost Nigerian interest in money".
The prime minister has been under pressure in recent months over a series of comments he made during his career as a columnist, writer and editor, including referring to black people as "piccaninnies (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/aug/07/boris-johnson-history-of-apologies-controversy-burqa-comments)" with  (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/aug/07/boris-johnson-history-of-apologies-controversy-burqa-comments)"watermelon smiles" (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/aug/07/boris-johnson-history-of-apologies-controversy-burqa-comments) and arguing Islam has caused the Muslim world to be "literally centuries behind" the west (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jul/15/boris-johnson-islam-muslim-world-centuries-behind-2007-essay).

In another column which has come to light, Johnson blamed single mothers for "producing a generation of ill-raised, ignorant, aggressive and illegitimate children", saying that social housing was an enticement for them to become pregnant.
The new columns emerged after the chancellor, Sajid Javid, refused seven times (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/nov/26/javid-refuses-to-condemn-pms-slurs-against-muslim-women) to say whether he would use the terms "bank robber" or "letterbox" to describe Muslim women who wear a burqa, as Johnson did last year.
The Conservative party leader wrote in a diary piece for the Independent on Sunday in October 1999 that Tony Blair had made people feel good about getting rich.
He added: "All the young people I know - ie those under 30 - are just as avaricious as we flinty Thatcherite yuppies of the 1980s in fact, they have an almost Nigerian interest in money and gadgets of all kinds."
Weyman Bennett, the co-convenor of Stand Up to Racism, described Johnson's words as "deeply racist and offensive". He told the Guardian: "This can be added to the 'piccaninnies' and 'watermelon smiles' (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/aug/07/boris-johnson-history-of-apologies-controversy-burqa-comments), the abject refusal to properly apologise and change his behaviour around racism.

"Boris Johnson is unfit to be a prime minister that represents the entire United Kingdom. He had demonstrated this by lying and falsely representing black, Asian and different communities inside this country.
"This is deeply offensive and unforgivable and should not be ignored and he should be held to account."
In the column on single mothers, published in the Spectator in 1995, Johnson wrote that "uppity and irresponsible women" had a "natural desire to have babies" and that ways must be found to ensure they married.


Arguing that social housing available to single mothers was "an enticement", Johnson said "no government - and certainly no Labour government - will have the courage to make the cuts in the safety net of the viciousness required to provide anything like such a deterrent".


Labour said the comments followed a pattern of sexist and misogynistic words and behaviour by Johnson. Shami Chakrabarti, the shadow attorney general, said: "These unearthed comments further reveal Boris Johnson's contempt for women and families, as he hypocritically attacks what he appallingly describes as 'illegitimate' children."


In the past 24 hours both major parties have been criticised for their handling of race issues. The Muslim Council of Britain accused the Conservative party of "denial, dismissal and deceit" over the issue of Islamophobia on Tuesday, saying the party had a "blind spot for this type of racism". On Wednesday Johnson apologised for Islamophobia (https://www.theguardian.com/news/2019/nov/27/boris-johnson-says-sorry-for-hurt-caused-by-islamophobia-within-conservative-party) within the Conservative party.
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: Bisto on December 06, 2019, 00:57:46 am
Daily Mirror

Boris Johnson skewered as Phillip Schofield reveals US firms already target NHS

"You're already doing it" - The Tory leader squirmed as the This Morning host reeled off a list of NHS services where US firms are already involved

BY MIKEY SMITH


Boris Johnson was forced to squirm as This Morning host Phillip Schofield reeled off a list of NHS services where US firms have already bought in. The Tory leader repeated his claim that the Health Service would not be on the table in any trade talks with the United States after Brexit But he looked to his feet, shifting his weight on the This Morning sofa, as the broadcaster listed a string of US interests in the NHS - declaring: "You're already doing it."

He asked for Mr Johnson's "absolute, rock solid guarantee" that "no part of the NHS will be sold off."Mr Johnson said it would not. Mr Schofield went on: "American companies providing about 13% of in-patient beds in England, Manchester. One in four beds provided by an American-owned company in Bristol, North Somerset, Gloucestershire."

He went on: "Three fifths of mental healthcare beds are owned by American companies. Cygnet runs eight mental health settings judged inadequate by the Care Quality Commission watchdog.

"£13.8 billion was spent on the NHS on mental healthcare. £1.8 billion of this went to private sectors, including American firms.
"You're already doing it."
Mr Johnson replied: "The biggest privatisation of the NHS went under Labour when they put in the PFI scheme. That was in my view - and I go round hospitals which are saddled with debt
"They have to pay back to banks at excruciating rates because of Labour's PFI deals."

While it's true that the Blair Labour government vastly expanded PFI use in the NHS, the claim Labour "put in" the scheme is false. PFI was introduced under John Major's Conservative administration.

But Schofield wasn't done He shot back: "Just this week we heard the story of a schizophrenic man who killed his father days after being mistakenly released from a Cygnet private hospital."
Mr Johnson failed to address the question, saying: "Well, obviously we have challenges with mental health care.

"And the NHS as a whole is doing an amazing job. That's why we want to make sure that we invest massively in mental healthcare as well as physical wellbeing."

This week the Mirror revealed US healthcare firms had been 'planting seeds' in the NHS since 2016.
US President Donald Trump made a visit to London to insist he did not want to prey on our treasured health service
But just six months earlier he boasted that "everything is on the table", including healthcare, during post-Brexit trade talks.
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: Nïckslïkk2112 on December 06, 2019, 10:19:03 am
Well, as part of the EU if an American healthcare firm has a subsidiary in the EU it is perfectly able to tender for and obtain health contracts. And the NHS does such a perfect job doesn't it?

And I'm sure that if people trawl back through all our social utterances they'll find things to "skewer" us with. I'm sure all the x-phobia and x-ism lobbies would find plenty to be offended by from what I've said. Sorry peeps, I just find it hard to like anyone who isn't me.

The trouble today is people go out pf their way to seek offence finding it where it may not have been intended. And having to go back to 1999 to find potentially offensive sayings...

I'm not here to defend BoJo - he's a politician - I'm just pissed off at a world where people twist inoffensive words to suit their own agenda. Wasn't Eamonn Holmes done for saying "Uppity" recently?  I despair.

People have to take more responsibility for themselves and not expect the state to provide everything for them. And people need to "Man Up" more too.

I could rant on and on, but there's no point. It's only me against the world, and nowt to do with yer man Johnson anyway.

We're off to hell in a handcart, the only thing is how quickly.
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: döm on December 06, 2019, 12:36:34 pm
To summarise Nick - everything is shit but don't blame Johnson
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: Bisto on December 06, 2019, 14:58:26 pm
Quote from: Nïckslïkk2112 on December 06, 2019, 10:19:03 amWell, as part of the EU if an American healthcare firm has a subsidiary in the EU it is perfectly able to tender for and obtain health contracts. And the NHS does such a perfect job doesn't it?

And I'm sure that if people trawl back through all our social utterances they'll find things to "skewer" us with. I'm sure all the x-phobia and x-ism lobbies would find plenty to be offended by from what I've said. Sorry peeps, I just find it hard to like anyone who isn't me.

The trouble today is people go out pf their way to seek offence finding it where it may not have been intended. And having to go back to 1999 to find potentially offensive sayings...

I'm not here to defend BoJo - he's a politician - I'm just pissed off at a world where people twist inoffensive words to suit their own agenda. Wasn't Eamonn Holmes done for saying "Uppity" recently?  I despair.

People have to take more responsibility for themselves and not expect the state to provide everything for them. And people need to "Man Up" more too.

I could rant on and on, but there's no point. It's only me against the world, and nowt to do with yer man Johnson anyway.

We're off to hell in a handcart, the only thing is how quickly.
The point is that Johnson is a two faced, lieing, cheating c*** who would do and say anything to get his grubby mitts on power (and money); he's a c*** today, he always has been a c*** and always will be a c***. Jacob Rees Mogg is an even bigger hypocritical, religious c***. This country, and the world in general, would be a far better place if they, and all their greedy, selfish, parasitical, power hungry, warmongering, psychopathic Tory/Republican c*** friends were all dead.

Hope I've made myself clear...any offence this may cause is purely intentional...sorry, not sorry.
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: Slim on December 06, 2019, 16:33:17 pm
Quote from: Bisto on December 06, 2019, 14:58:26 pmThe point is that Johnson is a two faced, lieing, cheating c*** who would do and say anything to get his grubby mitts on power (and money); he's a c*** today, he always has been a c*** and always will be a c***. Jacob Rees Mogg is an even bigger hypocritical, religious c***. This country, and the world in general, would be a far better place if they, and all their greedy, selfish, parasitical, power hungry, warmongering, psychopathic Tory/Republican c*** friends were all dead.

Hope I've made myself clear...any offence this may cause is purely intentional...sorry, not sorry.

Well I think you're taking a very jaundiced view there, and you've taken some opposition propaganda rather more seriously than is probably wise.

But you know what? Even if these claims were true, I'd still rather have Boris in Number 10 than an anti-semitic, dishonest IRA sympathiser with a blinkered, fanatical ideological obsession with the politics of proven failure and a hard on for any fanatical anti-western radical or terrorist group he's ever heard of.

The sort of man whose judgement leads him to appoint Diane Abbott as shadow home secretary, Provo McDonnell as shadow treasurer, and a woman who can barely manage a coherent sentence and left school at 16 with no qualifications as shadow education secretary.

And our world really will be a cleaner place once that piece of shit and his friends are dead.
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: Matt2112 on December 06, 2019, 19:18:33 pm
Any kind of cabinet that kicks out (me mate) Hilary for being too centrist is one I will in all probability not vote for.
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: Bisto on December 06, 2019, 19:21:53 pm
Quote from: Matt2112 on December 06, 2019, 19:18:33 pmAny kind of cabinet that kicks out (me mate) Hilary for being too centrist is one I will in all probability not vote for.
Who are you responding to Matt?
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: Matt2112 on December 06, 2019, 19:34:32 pm
Quote from: Bisto on December 06, 2019, 19:21:53 pmWho are you responding to Matt?
No-one in particular, just following up on James's point about the Shadow Cabinet.
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: Nïckslïkk2112 on December 06, 2019, 20:28:54 pm
Quote from: Bisto on December 06, 2019, 14:58:26 pmThe point is that Johnson is a two faced, lieing, cheating c*** who would do and say anything to get his grubby mitts on power (and money); he's a c*** today, he always has been a c*** and always will be a c***. Jacob Rees Mogg is an even bigger hypocritical, religious c***. This country, and the world in general, would be a far better place if they, and all their greedy, selfish, parasitical, power hungry, warmongering, psychopathic Tory/Republican c*** friends were all dead.

Hope I've made myself clear...any offence this may cause is purely intentional...sorry, not sorry.
In other words he's a politician :)

At least there's an occasional bit of humour - whether intentional or not - about BoJo. If Corbyn and especially his mare McDonnel get in then laughter will be outlawed - and I don't want to be sent to the Gulag.
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: rufus the dawg on December 08, 2019, 09:41:56 am
Quote from: Nïckslïkk2112 on December 06, 2019, 20:28:54 pmIn other words he's a politician :)

At least there's an occasional bit of humour - whether intentional or not - about BoJo. If Corbyn and especially his mare McDonnel get in then laughter will be outlawed - and I don't want to be sent to the Gulag.
Let me vote for Boris because he is a 3rd rate comedian, that gets my vote  clear thinking.
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: Nïckslïkk2112 on December 08, 2019, 10:11:29 am
Quote from: rufus the dawg on December 08, 2019, 09:41:56 amLet me vote for Boris because he is a 3rd rate comedian, that gets my vote  clear thinking.
Better third rate comedian than Marxist. You have to get down to Michael McIntyre level before considering Marxism.
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: rufus the dawg on December 08, 2019, 22:48:00 pm
Quote from: Nïckslïkk2112 on December 08, 2019, 10:11:29 amBetter third rate comedian than Marxist. You have to get down to Michael McIntyre level before considering Marxism.
Marxist is that bad? Or do you mean socialist?
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: Nïckslïkk2112 on December 08, 2019, 22:54:24 pm
Quote from: rufus the dawg on December 08, 2019, 22:48:00 pmMarxist is that bad? Or do you mean socialist?
Unless Groucho, Harpo, Chico, Zeppo or Gummo Marxist is very bad.

Korbyn [sickbag please] according to the Grauniad is a Marxist. Therefore he's very bad. He also drinks apple juice on Christmas day. This makes him the spawn of Satan. Although not as evil as his sidekick Warden Hodges, he's more evil than BLiar.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/nov/19/marxist-corbyn-revolution-ken-livingstone-labour (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/nov/19/marxist-corbyn-revolution-ken-livingstone-labour)
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: rufus the dawg on December 08, 2019, 22:59:41 pm
Quote from: Nïckslïkk2112 on December 08, 2019, 22:54:24 pmUnless Groucho, Harpo, Chico, Zeppo or Gummo Marxist is very bad.

Korbyn [sickbag please] according to the Grauniad is a Marxist. Therefore he's very bad. He also drinks apple juice on Christmas day. This makes him the spawn of Satan. Although not as evil as his sidekick Warden Hodges, he's more evil than BLiar.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/nov/19/marxist-corbyn-revolution-ken-livingstone-labour (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/nov/19/marxist-corbyn-revolution-ken-livingstone-labour)
but is marxism bad?
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: Bez on December 09, 2019, 08:22:41 am
I've just liked Bisto's post about Boris & Slim's post about Corbyn....

Shows what a mess we're in...
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: captainkurtz on December 09, 2019, 09:09:50 am
I've just liked your post, Bez...lol.

What times...
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: Bez on December 09, 2019, 09:37:43 am
Quote from: captainkurtz on December 09, 2019, 09:09:50 amI've just liked your post, Bez...lol.

What times...
....and I've just liked your post about liking my post...at least social media is still functioning....
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: Nïckslïkk2112 on December 09, 2019, 10:03:36 am
Quote from: Bez on December 09, 2019, 09:37:43 amat least social media is still functioning....
More's the pity.

A major cause of the shallowness and infantilism affecting today's world.
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: döm on December 09, 2019, 14:12:35 pm
Johnson reallly going for the populist lowest common denominator vote.

EU migrants have been able to treat the country "as if it was their own" for far too long.

Add xenophobe to his long list of faults making him totally incapable of being a leader of the country.
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: Nïckslïkk2112 on December 09, 2019, 14:32:00 pm
Is he buggery a Xenophobe. He's a bloody Turkish immigrant! To moan about immigrants would make him a hypocrite. Oh, wait, he's a politician...

Yes, he's a politician. He's saying to the people what he thinks they want to hear. That's what they do.

The only solution - no Jezza, not the final one - is to write on your voting paper: NONE OF THE BELOW.
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: Matt2112 on December 09, 2019, 14:35:02 pm
Quote from: döm on December 09, 2019, 14:12:35 pmJohnson reallly going for the populist lowest common denominator vote.

EU migrants have been able to treat the country "as if it was their own" for far too long.

Add xenophobe to his long list of faults making him totally incapable of being a leader of the country.
And this is why we're faced with voting for the least of all evils; Johnson's comments are at best badly-phrased.  But consider that the party against whom he's in a two-horse race have an ongoing serious problem with institutional Anti-Semitism* - it doesn't compare.


* Whether intended or not is not the issue - its the outcome that is.  And as Labour has been saddled with it throughout Corbyn's leadership, accordingly the party and indeed the electorate need to take an honest view on this.
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: döm on December 09, 2019, 14:44:22 pm
Quote from: Nïckslïkk2112 on December 09, 2019, 14:32:00 pmIs he buggery a Xenophobe. He's a bloody Turkish immigrant! To moan about immigrants would make him a hypocrite. Oh, wait, he's a politician...

Yes, he's a politician. He's saying to the people what he thinks they want to hear. That's what they do.

The only solution - no Jezza, not the final one - is to write on your voting paper: NONE OF THE BELOW.
Exactly he's a populist, pandering to the masses.  Saying what he thinks they want to hear
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: captainkurtz on December 09, 2019, 14:44:47 pm
Quote from: Matt2112 on December 09, 2019, 14:35:02 pmAnd this is why we're faced with voting for the least of all evils; Johnson's comments are at best badly-phrased.  But consider that the party against whom he's in a two-horse race have an ongoing serious problem with institutional Anti-Semitism* - it doesn't compare.


* Whether intended or not is not the issue - its the outcome that is.  And as Labour has been saddled with it throughout Corbyn's leadership, accordingly the party and indeed the electorate need to take an honest view on this.
the Uk is divided..as the heart and mind collided, as the people left unguided....LOL

Neither BJ and JC are worthy of a vote....
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: döm on December 09, 2019, 14:47:32 pm
Quote from: Matt2112 on December 09, 2019, 14:35:02 pmAnd this is why we're faced with voting for the least of all evils; Johnson's comments are at best badly-phrased.  But consider that the party against whom he's in a two-horse race have an ongoing serious problem with institutional Anti-Semitism* - it doesn't compare.


* Whether intended or not is not the issue - its the outcome that is.  And as Labour has been saddled with it throughout Corbyn's leadership, accordingly the party and indeed the electorate need to take an honest view on this.
I think the Tory party has just a big a problem with this as the Labour party.  I get the impression that the Jewish community make more of an issue with it when it comes from the Labour party is down to their anti-Israel stance
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: rufus the dawg on December 10, 2019, 03:41:37 am
Quote from: Matt2112 on December 09, 2019, 14:35:02 pmAnd this is why we're faced with voting for the least of all evils; Johnson's comments are at best badly-phrased.  But consider that the party against whom he's in a two-horse race have an ongoing serious problem with institutional Anti-Semitism* - it doesn't compare.


* Whether intended or not is not the issue - its the outcome that is.  And as Labour has been saddled with it throughout Corbyn's leadership, accordingly the party and indeed the electorate need to take an honest view on this.
The CONservatives have the same amount Anti semitism has the labour party, and the CONservatives have a very serious Islamophobic problem.

Will you be taking an honest view on the Islamophobic Boris Johnson and the conservatives then?
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: Bisto on December 10, 2019, 11:05:27 am
Quote from: rufus the dawg on December 10, 2019, 03:41:37 amThe CONservatives have the same amount Anti semitism has the labour party, and the CONservatives have a very serious Islamophobic problem.

Will you be taking an honest view on the Islamophobic Boris Johnson and the conservatives then?
Quote from: döm on December 09, 2019, 14:47:32 pmI think the Tory party has just a big a problem with this as the Labour party.  I get the impression that the Jewish community make more of an issue with it when it comes from the Labour party is down to their anti-Israel stance


It's clear that there is a politically motivated campaign by The Tories and Conservative and Zionist Jews to discredit Corbyn and paint the Labour party as institutionally anti-Semitic.

Corbyn has publicly stated that he recognises the
rights of both Palestine and Israel states to exist, he's been clear on that, what he opposes is unchecked Zionist expansion and the persecution of the Palestinian people.

According to a survey by the Institute for Jewish Policy Research in 2010 on the political leanings of British Jews,.... Jewish men, religious Jews (of both genders), married Jews, self employed Jews and West London and Hertfordshire Jews all tend to be predominantly Tory voters; whereas female Jews, single Jews, employed Jews, East End London Jews and those living in the north of England as well as secular Jews tend to favour Labour.

It would be interesting and, I suspect, very revealing, to discover where most of the complaints of Anti-Semitism come from in light of those demographics.

I'm not saying that Anti Semitism doesn't exist at all within the Labour party, and Corbyn has always said that it has no place within it; but my guess is that there is actually a lot more Anti Zionism (which, imho, is a perfectly legitimate political position to take and not of itself Racist) than actual anti Semitism.
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: Bez on December 11, 2019, 09:06:13 am
Quote from: Nïckslïkk2112 on December 09, 2019, 10:03:36 amMore's the pity.

A major cause of the shallowness and infantilism affecting today's world.
I'm not disagreeing with that...
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: Matt2112 on December 11, 2019, 15:40:06 pm
Quote from: rufus the dawg on December 10, 2019, 03:41:37 amThe CONservatives have the same amount Anti semitism has the labour party, and the CONservatives have a very serious Islamophobic problem.

Will you be taking an honest view on the Islamophobic Boris Johnson and the conservatives then?
Your first point begs the question why the Tories are not being subject to an independent enquiry into institutional anti-semitism, yet the Labour Party is.

Secondly, anti-semitism and "Islamophobia" are not two sides of the same coin; the former refers to people, the latter to a set of ideas.  Ideas are fair game for a "phobia", a group of people are not.  This is why (as Sajid Javid and reformists like Maajid Nawaz rightly point out) what is correctly called out as anti-Muslim prejudice should not be conflated and confused with accusations of  "Islamophobia".

Bojo infamously referred to niqab-wearing Muslim women as looking like "letterboxes" in the same article in which he endorsed their right to wear such religiously conservative clothing. That position strikes me as actually to the left of Muslim feminists like Yasmin Alibhai-Brown who are far more scathing of her counterparts who dress more "modestly".

But, of course, something like that will go unsaid on the far left lest they get into one of their intersectional identity-politics tizzies.
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: Slim on December 11, 2019, 16:54:14 pm
It's silly to pretend that minor incidents of Islamophobia (which I do take to mean prejudice against Muslim people since that's the accepted definition in common usage, whether logically correct or not) in the Tory party can be compared to the endemic, institutionalised anti-semitism that infests the Labour Party from the bottom right to the top.

Indeed it's exactly the limp-wristed whataboutery response that I hope I debunked in the piece I wrote earlier in the week.

That said, Islamophobia needs to be properly handled and punished wherever it arises, certainly in the Tory Party.

And our Prime Minister's Muslim great-grandfather from Turkey would spin in his grave if it wasn't.
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: rufus the dawg on December 11, 2019, 16:56:04 pm
I agree with most of your post, but clearly there is an Islamophobic problem in the Tory party.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/dec/11/tories-open-second-investigation-sally-ann-hart-hastings-candidate (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/dec/11/tories-open-second-investigation-sally-ann-hart-hastings-candidate)

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/dec/08/james-cleverly-apologises-over-tory-islamophobia-and-racism-allegations (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/dec/08/james-cleverly-apologises-over-tory-islamophobia-and-racism-allegations)

and I could/can point you lots of these articles about the Tory party. This is not just a labour party problem like the conservatives and parts of the media are making out. BJ did not have to make offensive remarks to make his point, but he does all the time about all sorts of minority groups. Which is part of the whistle blower racism that he is part of and that has been on the rise since the referendum. He has played along with it to muster more support and created and stoked the fire for his own gain. You need to look at the poll I posted up which shows that there is more antisemitism supporters of the conservative party then the labour party. Then you also have wonder why the conservatives are not doing anything for the Palestinian people, which are having their land systematically removed by the Israeli state. Would you allow France to invade parts of Kent? read this https://mondoweiss.net/2019/08/islamophobia-hierarchies-discrimination/ (https://mondoweiss.net/2019/08/islamophobia-hierarchies-discrimination/)

Both are vile and not done in my name, the local conservative, Eton schooled MP was reported to the police the other day for hate crime https://www.shropshirestar.com/news/crime/2019/11/29/police-investigating-alleged-hate-crime-over-philip-dunne-turban-remark-to-opponent-kuldip-sahota/ (https://www.shropshirestar.com/news/crime/2019/11/29/police-investigating-alleged-hate-crime-over-philip-dunne-turban-remark-to-opponent-kuldip-sahota/) 

Let us not forget that the Conservatives have been part of a much larger problem that we have all forgotten

Windrush, the social clearing of black people out of this country. The conservatives created the hostile environment against so called illegal immigrants back to the Caribbean. The Irony is that one of the arguments for brexit was to have less immigration from the EU and more from the rest of the world.

So can I support either Labour or Conservative - NO,  that is why I want a reset button and I would sack them all and have a completely new system.

sorry this is very rushed tons of spelling mistakes and literary errors, dyslexia.
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: döm on December 11, 2019, 17:30:50 pm
Something has to be wrong with democracy when the choice is between Boris Johnson & Jeremy Corbyn.

I despair at the thought that enough people are out there that are willing to give their vote to a party led by Johnson.  I begin to think that the country must be completely different to the one I left 15 years ago. Then I realise that the choice is him or Corbyn and that does make it more understandable/Palatable

So I want a hung parliament leading to a 2nd Brexit referendum. Tactical voting ftw!!

If Labour had a more moderate man in charge there is no way that Johnson would have a chance of remaining prime minister.  If he does become leader with a majority that enables him to do what he wants I really want "Get Brexit Done" to be as big a millstone to him as "Strong and Stable" was to May.
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: Chris Quartly on December 11, 2019, 19:23:04 pm
I agree with Dom on this one. The biggest damnation that can be thrown at Labour is that any competent party should be absolutely wiping the floor given the shower of shit they are up against.
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: Richard_2112 on December 12, 2019, 01:40:00 am
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-hides-fridge-general-election-piers-morgan-good-morning-britain-live-tv-a9241631.html (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-hides-fridge-general-election-piers-morgan-good-morning-britain-live-tv-a9241631.html)

What an utter coward! And people really think he'll be able to stand up to world leaders who will pick apart the scraps of the UK if we ever do leave the EU!?
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: zoony on December 12, 2019, 13:17:53 pm
Quote from: Chris Quartly on December 11, 2019, 19:23:04 pmI agree with Dom on this one. The biggest damnation that can be thrown at Labour is that any competent party should be absolutely wiping the floor given the shower of shit they are up against.
And Corbyn is the biggest turd amongst all of them.
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: Nïckslïkk2112 on December 12, 2019, 13:42:29 pm
Quote from: Matt2112 on December 11, 2019, 15:40:06 pmBojo infamously referred to niqab-wearing Muslim women as looking like "letterboxes" in the same article in which he endorsed their right to wear such religiously conservative clothing. That position strikes me as actually to the left of Muslim feminists like Yasmin Alibhai-Brown who are far more scathing of her counterparts who dress more "modestly".

But, of course, something like that will go unsaid on the far left lest they get into one of their intersectional identity-politics tizzies.
People today only seem to be able to deal with "soundbites" and make no effort to take into account the details and context of what someone has said. It started back with Mrs Thatched and her taken out of context "No such thing as society". People hear these things and then just parrot them as if they understand. They know nothing.

In anoter post Richard2112 referenced the closure of 780 libraries. The Mail on Sunday - yes the MoS -  was lamenting that last week, with someone saying that libraries are where people can go to broaden their horizons. There you have the reason why libraries will shut, the vast majority of people today don't want to broaden their horizons. It's all about social media likes, the next tattoo and what shade they are going to be spray-tanned.

The whole world needs resetting.
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: Bisto on December 12, 2019, 21:37:07 pm
Quote from: Nïckslïkk2112 on December 12, 2019, 13:42:29 pmPeople today only seem to be able to deal with "soundbites" and make no effort to take into account the details and context of what someone has said. It started back with Mrs Thatched and her taken out of context "No such thing as society". People hear these things and then just parrot them as if they understand. They know nothing.

In anoter post Richard2112 referenced the closure of 780 libraries. The Mail on Sunday - yes the MoS -  was lamenting that last week, with someone saying that libraries are where people can go to broaden their horizons. There you have the reason why libraries will shut, the vast majority of people today don't want to broaden their horizons. It's all about social media likes, the next tattoo and what shade they are going to be spray-tanned.

The whole world needs resetting.
Hell is other people.
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: döm on December 12, 2019, 21:44:05 pm
Lots of rumours coming out of Uxbridge that his Uxbridge seat may be in danger. Fingers crossed !
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: Nïckslïkk2112 on December 12, 2019, 22:44:43 pm
Quote from: Bisto on December 12, 2019, 21:37:07 pmHell is other people.
Not 'Arf!

Especially when you have Aspergers, Misophonia and Misokinesia.
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: Slim on December 13, 2019, 02:31:37 am
I can't wait for the c*** in Islington.
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: Slim on December 13, 2019, 02:31:54 am
Sorry, meant to type "count" of course.
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: Bisto on December 31, 2019, 13:18:41 pm
Below is a list of the devastating measures already undertaken by dictator Johnson.

Borrowed!
.
In his first four days as Prime Monster of the United Kingdom Boris Johnson has:

Cut the disability benefits of 650,000 vulnerable people.

Rolled back on plans to address the climate change emergency.

Banned any boycott of Israel and supported their renewed offensive against the unarmed civilians of Gaza.

Removed child refugee legal protections.

Rolled back his pledge to increase nurses for the NHS.

Told us that the NHS is no longer protected from a trade deal with the US.

Told us that future deals will be conducted in secret.

Blocked anyone without photo ID from voting in future elections.

Drafted new constituency boundaries to keep the Tories in power indefinitely.

Dismissed renewed calls for a second Scottish independence referendum causing further disharmony.

Stated that workers rights and Trade Unions are under threat.

Rolled back pledge to increase the national living wage. 

Announced an increase in MP's wages to £82k a year

Scrapped EU directives on holiday pay, sick leave and working hours.

Stated that Brexit is happening by the the 31st of January with the worst no-deal scenario yet.

For anyone looking for sources (thanks Katie Round):

1 disability
https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/650000-disability-benefit-claimants-money-3654699

2 Climate change https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-climate-change-flights-carbon-emissions-net-zero-queens-speech-a9253516.html

3 israel
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-israel-boycott-ban-bds-queens-speech-a9253651.html

4 child refugee
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/boris-johnson-withdrawal-bill-brexit-child-refugees-dubs-amendment-a9253841.html

5 nurses
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/election-2019-50834894/matt-hancock-and-dan-walker-clash-over-tory-50000-nurses-pledge

6 secret future deals
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-brexit-bill-trade-deal-us-withdrawal-agreement-latest-a9253811.html

7 voting and id
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/voter-id-policy-boris-johnson-election-polling-stations-queens-speech-a9254641.html

8 new constituencies
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1219004/boris-johnson-news-boundary-changes-uk-constituencies-labour-party

9 scottish independence
https://learningenglish.voanews.com/a/johnson-refuses-call-for-scottish-independence-vote-/5212688.html

10 workers rights
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-queens-speech-brexit-news-workers-rights-withdrawal-agreement-a9253141.html

11 national living wage
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-living-wage-queens-speech-sajid-javid-manifesto-tory-a9253376.html

12 mps wages
https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1218895/MPs-pay-rise-house-of-commons-tories-labour-brexit-election-expenses-scandal

13 eu holiday pay
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnson-judges-scrap-eu-21121617

14 no deal
https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/brexit/brexit-deal-latest-boris-johnson-no-deal-exit-eu-talks-1342720

Thanks to Occupy News Network
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: Nïckslïkk2112 on December 31, 2019, 14:45:18 pm
And if you actually read the articles - admittedly I've only looked at a couple- there's a lot of "could" about these things.

e.g. on 13 judges will be allowed to overturn things. Being allowed to doesn''t mean they will do.

e.g. on 11 the living wage the pledge included "so long as economic conditions allow" nothing that the increases will NOT be implemented. Personally the living wage wants scrapping, it means that the differential between the economically inept and the merely low paid - such as my dear wife - is being eroded.

People: Do not believe ANYTHING you read. Don't take links at face value.
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: Slim on December 31, 2019, 15:03:48 pm
Quote from: Bisto on December 31, 2019, 13:18:41 pmdictator Johnson.


(http://truth.justdied.com/images/laffs.gif)
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: döm on December 31, 2019, 17:30:40 pm
Quote from: Nïckslïkk2112 on December 31, 2019, 14:45:18 pmAnd if you actually read the articles - admittedly I've only looked at a couple- there's a lot of "could" about these things.

e.g. on 13 judges will be allowed to overturn things. Being allowed to doesn''t mean they will do.

e.g. on 11 the living wage the pledge included "so long as economic conditions allow" nothing that the increases will NOT be implemented. Personally the living wage wants scrapping, it means that the differential between the economically inept and the merely low paid - such as my dear wife - is being eroded.

People: Do not believe ANYTHING you read. Don't take links at face value.
Haven't looked into these as yet but one thing is for sure. Believe anything Johnson or any of his cronies say at your peril. 100% not to be trusted as the DUP have already found out.
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: Nïckslïkk2112 on December 31, 2019, 19:01:13 pm
Quote from: döm on December 31, 2019, 17:30:40 pmHaven't looked into these as yet but one thing is for sure. Believe anything Johnson or any of his cronies say at your peril. 100% not to be trusted as the DUP have already found out.
Hey, Politicians 100% not to be trusted, people think Boris is Far Right. He isn't, he's probably slightly to the right of BLiar.
And at least he won' drag us into a Marxist state. For small mercies be grateful. As for the DUP - suck it you filthy prods!
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: döm on December 31, 2019, 20:03:00 pm
Quote from: Nïckslïkk2112 on December 31, 2019, 19:01:13 pmHey, Politicians 100% not to be trusted, people think Boris is Far Right. He isn't, he's probably slightly to the right of BLiar.
And at least he won' drag us into a Marxist state. For small mercies be grateful. As for the DUP - suck it you filthy prods!
Proof will be in the pudding in terms of how far right he is.

As to the DUP I'm happy to see their demise and how they've been screwed. It really shows though how Johnson is only loyal to one thing... himself.
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: Nïckslïkk2112 on January 01, 2020, 02:29:54 am
Quote from: döm on December 31, 2019, 20:03:00 pmProof will be in the pudding in terms of how far right he is.

As to the DUP I'm happy to see their demise and how they've been screwed. It really shows though how Johnson is only loyal to one thing... himself.
Once again, he's a politician. Untustworthy bunch of gobshites the lot of them. But, at least he's not propelled by brain-dead student Marxism.
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: zoony on January 01, 2020, 12:03:37 pm
Quote from: Bisto on December 31, 2019, 13:18:41 pmBelow is a list of the devastating measures already undertaken by dictator Johnson.

Borrowed!
.
In his first four days as Prime Monster of the United Kingdom Boris Johnson has:

Cut the disability benefits of 650,000 vulnerable people.

Rolled back on plans to address the climate change emergency.

Banned any boycott of Israel and supported their renewed offensive against the unarmed civilians of Gaza.

Removed child refugee legal protections.

Rolled back his pledge to increase nurses for the NHS.

Told us that the NHS is no longer protected from a trade deal with the US.

Told us that future deals will be conducted in secret.

Blocked anyone without photo ID from voting in future elections.

Drafted new constituency boundaries to keep the Tories in power indefinitely.

Dismissed renewed calls for a second Scottish independence referendum causing further disharmony.

Stated that workers rights and Trade Unions are under threat.

Rolled back pledge to increase the national living wage. 

Announced an increase in MP's wages to £82k a year

Scrapped EU directives on holiday pay, sick leave and working hours.

Stated that Brexit is happening by the the 31st of January with the worst no-deal scenario yet.

For anyone looking for sources (thanks Katie Round):

1 disability
https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/650000-disability-benefit-claimants-money-3654699

2 Climate change https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-climate-change-flights-carbon-emissions-net-zero-queens-speech-a9253516.html

3 israel
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-israel-boycott-ban-bds-queens-speech-a9253651.html

4 child refugee
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/boris-johnson-withdrawal-bill-brexit-child-refugees-dubs-amendment-a9253841.html

5 nurses
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/election-2019-50834894/matt-hancock-and-dan-walker-clash-over-tory-50000-nurses-pledge

6 secret future deals
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-brexit-bill-trade-deal-us-withdrawal-agreement-latest-a9253811.html

7 voting and id
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/voter-id-policy-boris-johnson-election-polling-stations-queens-speech-a9254641.html

8 new constituencies
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1219004/boris-johnson-news-boundary-changes-uk-constituencies-labour-party

9 scottish independence
https://learningenglish.voanews.com/a/johnson-refuses-call-for-scottish-independence-vote-/5212688.html

10 workers rights
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-queens-speech-brexit-news-workers-rights-withdrawal-agreement-a9253141.html

11 national living wage
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-living-wage-queens-speech-sajid-javid-manifesto-tory-a9253376.html

12 mps wages
https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1218895/MPs-pay-rise-house-of-commons-tories-labour-brexit-election-expenses-scandal

13 eu holiday pay
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnson-judges-scrap-eu-21121617

14 no deal
https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/brexit/brexit-deal-latest-boris-johnson-no-deal-exit-eu-talks-1342720

Thanks to Occupy News Network
Well the only definite things that I've seen announced so far is that we're leaving the EU on January 31st, and the minimum wage is going up by 4x the rate of inflation. At the end of the day, even if it turns out that Johnson is the worlds biggest liar, there was never any real doubt about the result of the general election, as I don't think there was any other alternative. Time will tell, and we'll just have to wait and see.
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: rufus the dawg on January 04, 2020, 15:39:05 pm
Quote from: zoony on January 01, 2020, 12:03:37 pmWell the only definite things that I've seen announced so far is that we're leaving the EU on January 31st, and the minimum wage is going up by 4x the rate of inflation. At the end of the day, even if it turns out that Johnson is the worlds biggest liar, there was never any real doubt about the result of the general election, as I don't think there was any other alternative. Time will tell, and we'll just have to wait and see.
It is interesting and good that the conservatives have put up the LW because way back in 1998 when labour introduced it the Tories opposed it.
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: Slim on January 04, 2020, 16:31:37 pm
It is interesting, and it does show that the People's Government is instinctively centrist.

The minimum wage was one of two big policy mistakes that incoming New Labour government made; the other being devolution - which it argued would, in Scotland's case, take the wind out of the sails of Scottish nationalism. What actually happened of course was that the Scottish Parliament became a sort of grievance engine for Little Scotlanders; a platform for them to indulge their loathing of the English.

In both cases the Conservative Party decided that the genie wouldn't go back in the bottle, and didn't offer to reverse either of these errors in subsequent manifestos.
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: rufus the dawg on January 04, 2020, 22:37:39 pm
Quote from: Slim on January 04, 2020, 16:31:37 pmIt is interesting, and it does show that the People's Government is instinctively centrist.

The minimum wage was one of two big policy mistakes that incoming New Labour government made; the other being devolution - which it argued would, in Scotland's case, take the wind out of the sails of Scottish nationalism. What actually happened of course was that the Scottish Parliament became a sort of grievance engine for Little Scotlanders; a platform for them to indulge their loathing of the English.

In both cases the Conservative Party decided that the genie wouldn't go back in the bottle, and didn't offer to reverse either of these errors in subsequent manifestos.
Nope Alex Salmond happened, a populist just like Farridge and Johnston, All three are lying toads.
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: captainkurtz on January 04, 2020, 23:46:03 pm
Is Johnson still on holiday?
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: döm on January 05, 2020, 10:10:08 am
Quote from: captainkurtz on January 04, 2020, 23:46:03 pmIs Johnson still on holiday?
You can't blame him really. Criticize Trump and risk a trade deal the UK is really desperate for or support him and be forced into supporting a senseless war. 

Tough one but that's the sort of thing that happens when you decide to leave the relative sanity of the EU.
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: Slim on January 05, 2020, 10:24:23 am
Quote from: rufus the dawg on January 04, 2020, 22:37:39 pmNope Alex Salmond happened, a populist just like Farridge and Johnston, All three are lying toads.
Alex Salmond had already happened before devolution.
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: Slim on January 05, 2020, 10:26:10 am
Quote from: captainkurtz on January 04, 2020, 23:46:03 pmIs Johnson still on holiday?

Returning today, I hear this morning. Pleased that he's had one after what must have been a stressful and gruelling election campaign. It's in no-one's interests to have an exhausted PM.
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: rufus the dawg on January 05, 2020, 12:17:53 pm
yes you are right rather have BJ fully recovered from all his lying than WW3.
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: Nick on January 05, 2020, 12:26:12 pm
Quote from: Slim on January 05, 2020, 10:26:10 amReturning today, I hear this morning. Pleased that he's had one after what must have been a stressful and gruelling election campaign. It's in no-one's interests to have an exhausted PM.
Hardly Churchillian or Thatcherlike.
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: rufus the dawg on January 05, 2020, 22:34:45 pm
Quote from: Slim on January 05, 2020, 10:24:23 amAlex Salmond had already happened before devolution.
Yes you are right. I remember though that after devolution Alex Salmond resigned in 2000 and Nationalism and the SNPs popularity took a nose dive. That is why they got Salmond back in 2004 and slowly had to rebuild.
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: Slim on January 06, 2020, 18:29:55 pm
Can't help thinking this is a bit strong from Boris.


(http://truth.justdied.com/images/boris_reply.jpg)

I've censored the rude words.
Title: Re: We need to talk about Boris
Post by: zoony on January 07, 2020, 13:46:24 pm
Quote from: Slim on January 06, 2020, 18:29:55 pmCan't help thinking this is a bit strong from Boris.


(http://truth.justdied.com/images/boris_reply.jpg)

I've censored the rude words.
Lol, nice one Boris.