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Vapour Trails => Rush Tour => Topic started by: mickpaz2112 on June 02, 2015, 05:33:15 am

Title: Are Rush Lazy tourers?
Post by: mickpaz2112 on June 02, 2015, 05:33:15 am
When I think of it I consider Rush to be a naïve touring band, always playing it safe ie North America/ Canada and a few European dates when they can be bothered. When you compare Rush to there Peer's who do World tours incorporating most continents, I think its bad management and has probably lost them millions of potential sales having played only 15 countries or so and a third of these only once, pretty poor in a 41 year touring career.
Discuss
Title: Re: Are Rush Lazy tourers?
Post by: DavidL on June 02, 2015, 08:20:02 am
On the contrary, I think they have been the masters of their own destiny. I, like yourself, have often wondered why their world tours never took in places like Japan, Australia, S.America etc. I would think this may have been dictated largely by record sales and/or the perception that the band was not that popular in those markets (from a management point of view). You could ask why they have not launched campaigns to address this but I think they (the band) would be more than satisfied with the success they've achieved in the main markets in which they operate. For them, it's never been about sales, fame etc. and with their well-documented aversion to long tours, it's no surprise that they've made these decisions.
I'm sure Ray Daniels would have them going further afield if it was financially worthwhile but I could see the band resisting it. You've got to admire their principled stance, if this is the case.
Title: Re: Are Rush Lazy tourers?
Post by: captainkurtz on June 02, 2015, 08:33:14 am
Van Halen are worse.
Title: Re: Are Rush Lazy tourers?
Post by: The Letter R on June 02, 2015, 09:13:28 am
Quote from: captainkurtz on June 02, 2015, 08:33:14 am
Van Halen are worse.

Boston are even worse............
Title: Re: Are Rush Lazy tourers?
Post by: Fishy on June 02, 2015, 09:40:02 am
..."why move around the world when eden was so near"
Title: Re: Are Rush Lazy tourers?
Post by: döm on June 02, 2015, 10:19:54 am
I wonder whether Neil put a stop to more extensive touring?
Title: Re: Are Rush Lazy tourers?
Post by: Jonners on June 02, 2015, 11:07:16 am
chicken and the egg these days, especially for Mature bands

Do you tour to promote yourself and record sales as they would have done in the early days, or do you only tour to the areas of the world where there are significant CD sales etc to reward the loyal fans

Personally I would have loved more European exposure in the 80's and 90's when to me they were at their peak, and my interest levels were too. That's the only time I feel "lazy" could be applied
Title: Re: Are Rush Lazy tourers?
Post by: Reg on June 02, 2015, 12:09:38 pm
I imagine Neal would love a jaunt around Japan on his motorcycle.
Title: Re: Are Rush Lazy tourers?
Post by: Fishy on June 02, 2015, 12:33:58 pm
Quote from: Jonners on June 02, 2015, 11:07:16 am
chicken and the egg these days, especially for Mature bands

Do you tour to promote yourself and record sales as they would have done in the early days, or do you only tour to the areas of the world where there are significant CD sales etc to reward the loyal fans

Personally I would have loved more European exposure in the 80's and 90's when to me they were at their peak, and my interest levels were too. That's the only time I feel "lazy" could be applied


agree about the 80s/90s.. Europe never got a bloody look in.... lazy bastards...
Title: Re: Are Rush Lazy tourers?
Post by: L3rxst on June 02, 2015, 16:02:56 pm
Let's be honest, they don't need the money or the notoriety these days.
And the last time I saw them at Manchester they just didn't seem too be enjoying it to be honest. Seemed very lack luster.
Yep, we all have bad days at the office, but we don't all gross 250 grande +/- a day.........
Title: Re: Are Rush Lazy tourers?
Post by: Summerland on June 03, 2015, 00:11:37 am
It was a long and disappointing 5 years from 1983-8, by the time they turned up again the best music and times were behind them.

I only saw them twice pre-1988, wish it had been more.
Title: Re: Are Rush Lazy tourers?
Post by: Norwegian on June 03, 2015, 09:09:32 am
Let´s face it - most of these older bands are still/have picked up touring because the CD-sales has been marginalized by illegal DL/streaming

But I agree with Mick here, "World Tour" when you visit 10 countries or less..... :P
Title: Re: Are Rush Lazy tourers?
Post by: L3rxst on June 03, 2015, 11:04:12 am
Agree with Summerland totally. We were not included in the best stuff, but we do get to taste a bit of that during a 3 hour set when they do come.
I had no idea that these guys have some quite debilitating health issues, so fair dooos........
Title: Re: Are Rush Lazy tourers?
Post by: NeilP on June 03, 2015, 12:01:09 pm
I think the best tours ere were pre 83 tbh, but then I'm an oldie
Title: Re: Are Rush Lazy tourers?
Post by: mickpaz2112 on June 03, 2015, 13:02:37 pm
Quote from: L3rxst on June 03, 2015, 11:04:12 am
Agree with Summerland totally. We were not included in the best stuff, but we do get to taste a bit of that during a 3 hour set when they do come.
I had no idea that these guys have some quite debilitating health issues, so fair dooos........
My point in the late 70's , 80's they should have played to a far bigger global audience than they did, they played it too safe.
Title: Re: Are Rush Lazy tourers?
Post by: DavidL on June 03, 2015, 15:00:48 pm
Quote from: mickpaz2112 on June 03, 2015, 13:02:37 pm
My point in the late 70's , 80's they should have played to a far bigger global audience than they did, they played it too safe.
IMO that 'global audience just didn't exist. They were never U2. Their record sales were not large enough, their popularity not large enough and their desire to change those things not strong enough. To become truly global requires a certain level of commerciality and sustained radio airplay. Rush are a cult band - mainly because their music is just too damn weird for the majority.
I think they've made the most of what popularity they had without much in the way of compromising their artistic integrity. No doubt they could have secured a larger global fanbase but would probably have felt a little uncomfortable playing TSoR to them!
Title: Re: Are Rush Lazy tourers?
Post by: mickpaz2112 on June 03, 2015, 15:38:41 pm
Quote from: DavidL on June 03, 2015, 15:00:48 pm
IMO that 'global audience just didn't exist. They were never U2. Their record sales were not large enough, their popularity not large enough and their desire to change those things not strong enough. To become truly global requires a certain level of commerciality and sustained radio airplay. Rush are a cult band - mainly because their music is just too damn weird for the majority.
I think they've made the most of what popularity they had without much in the way of compromising their artistic integrity. No doubt they could have secured a larger global fanbase but would probably have felt a little uncomfortable playing TSoR to them!
So they played it safe, we call Rush a cult band but they have Global sales of over 35m and that was 1992. Rush did big sell out tours in the UK and US but never tried to expand these areas enough, they sold well in Japan, South America and were released Worldwide. They never played Spain or Italy (until recently), missed out France. I traded for years with people in countries who never got a chance of seeing Rush, but were visited regularly by Purple, Yes, Kiss even Uriah Heep, I just feel they missed a big opportunity.
"Uriah Heep's audience declined by the 1980s, to the point where they became essentially a cult band in the United Kingdom and United States. The band maintains a significant following and performs at arena-sized venues in the Balkans, Germany, Japan, the Netherlands, Russia and Scandinavia. They have sold over 40 million albums worldwide with over 4 million sales in the U.S"
Title: Re: Are Rush Lazy tourers?
Post by: DavidL on June 03, 2015, 18:07:41 pm
Quote from: mickpaz2112 on June 03, 2015, 15:38:41 pm
So they played it safe, we call Rush a cult band but they have Global sales of over 35m and that was 1992. Rush did big sell out tours in the UK and US but never tried to expand these areas enough, they sold well in Japan, South America and were released Worldwide. They never played Spain or Italy (until recently), missed out France. I traded for years with people in countries who never got a chance of seeing Rush, but were visited regularly by Purple, Yes, Kiss even Uriah Heep, I just feel they missed a big opportunity.
"Uriah Heep's audience declined by the 1980s, to the point where they became essentially a cult band in the United Kingdom and United States. The band maintains a significant following and performs at arena-sized venues in the Balkans, Germany, Japan, the Netherlands, Russia and Scandinavia. They have sold over 40 million albums worldwide with over 4 million sales in the U.S"
You cannot compare Rush to Purple, Kiss or even Yes. Those three bands have always had far more appeal due to the 'accessible' nature of the music they play (or huge success from the 70s that has endured). Uriah Heep had 'hits' in the 70s but by the 80s had lost their popularity here (possibly due to poor product/outdated style etc). The fact that they can sell out arenas in the Balkans, Russia and Scandanavia is no great shakes because those markets will lap up any western rock act that sees fit to go there. I've absolutely no doubt that Rush could've exploited those markets if they'd wanted but the market they really wanted to crack was the UK because that's where their heroes were from. I guess the fact that they were not prepared to flog themselves in order to rack up a few more million in sales could be termed lazy but it really is 'low hanging fruit' in my book.
Too much can be made of the album sales that Rush have amassed because this is mostly through a rabid (albeit far-reaching) fan base that buys pretty much everything and not through any real 'global' appeal. This is certainly true when considering the much-heralded fact that they are in the top 4 (?) acts in terms of consecutive gold album sales. Sure, Uriah Heep are hard-working and can play to large rock-starved Eastern European audiences but they'd struggle to fill a town hall in the UK.
I prefer the Rush model.
Title: Re: Are Rush Lazy tourers?
Post by: Summerland on June 03, 2015, 22:16:19 pm
Quote from: NeilP on June 03, 2015, 12:01:09 pm
I think the best tours ere were pre 83 tbh, but then I'm an oldie


I'm sure you know that I didn't mean that PoW and GuP were the best of times; just that by '88, those 'best' times were in the past. My first gig was ESL in Autumn '81 at Bingley Hall, that's just a quirk of time, but as you note, you're an oldie! :-) Good on yer
Title: Re: Are Rush Lazy tourers?
Post by: Valen on June 04, 2015, 09:45:25 am
Alternatively, by playing it safe perhaps that helped them maintain their longevity?

I dropped off the Rush map after the Signals tour - I know a lot of people enjoyed that show, but for lots of reasons, including a terrible venue, that show didn't do it for me.

As a result I think I missed the HYF and RTB tours (were they the only UK tours between Signals and R30?). Personally I'm glad I rekindled the interest from R30 onwards, when the shows became longer and more varied. I'm happy it's worked out this way for me, rather than seeing shorter sets and more frequent tours earlier in their career and the band burning out.

I'm in the middle of Peart's Far and Away books and I think I can understand his reluctance to tour, and the lengths he (and the others) have to go to stay on top of their game each tour. Yes, it would be great to get a UK R40 tour, but if the guys are truly suffering physically at this stage in their lives, then perhaps the kindest thing is just to "wish them well".
Title: Re: Are Rush Lazy tourers?
Post by: L3rxst on June 04, 2015, 15:16:25 pm
I started my journey with te Exit Stage Left Tour. So wished I could have seen the Hemispheres and Permanent Waves tours, but hey ho.

And the P/G stuff must have been great live, but we all like different parts of this truly progressive band.
Title: Re: Are Rush Lazy tourers?
Post by: Jonners on June 04, 2015, 16:47:11 pm
as a relative youngster in Rush terms, my first experience was HYF tour in 88, then RTB whenever that was (1992?)  (I cant recall anything about this gig other than the surround sound and inflatable rabbits), then the loooooooong wait for R30.

Then, the only tour I wish I had missed, Snakes and Arrows, which I thought was an awful show, on so many different levels. Managed to convince myself to see them live again on Time Machine, which I am sort of glad I did, then passed on CA which looking back was a mistake due to the large amount of PW, even though I genuinely loath the CA stuff.

I do feel incredibly envious of you fellers who saw ESL etc and even earlier tours for some.

Title: Re: Are Rush Lazy tourers?
Post by: captainkurtz on June 04, 2015, 17:01:04 pm
Quote from: Jonners on June 04, 2015, 16:47:11 pm
I do feel incredibly envious of you fellers who saw ESL etc and even earlier tours for some.

so do I, but then I remind myself that at least I still have my youth.  Sort of.  ;D
Title: Re: Are Rush Lazy tourers?
Post by: Matt2112 on June 04, 2015, 18:28:57 pm
Like Jonners, 1988 was my first time.  Nothing has surpassed it since, and given all the songs, synths, lighting, lasers and mullets of the HYF tour, I'm confident nothing that came before it did either.  8)
Title: Re: Are Rush Lazy tourers?
Post by: DavidL on June 04, 2015, 19:07:05 pm
Quote from: Valen on June 04, 2015, 09:45:25 am
Alternatively, by playing it safe perhaps that helped them maintain their longevity?

I'm sure that's the case.
Title: Re: Are Rush Lazy tourers?
Post by: Nick on June 04, 2015, 19:35:24 pm
Are their fans lazy tourists?
Title: Re: Are Rush Lazy tourers?
Post by: Nïckslïkk2112 on June 04, 2015, 22:44:49 pm
Quote from: Nick on June 04, 2015, 19:35:24 pm
Are their fans lazy tourists?

Wish I had been on the S&A tour...
Title: Re: Are Rush Lazy tourers?
Post by: Jonners on June 05, 2015, 10:39:15 am
Quote from: Nïckslïkk2112 on June 04, 2015, 22:44:49 pm
Wish I had been on the S&A tour...

Me too, and I only travelled 10 miles to the NEC!

Title: Re: Are Rush Lazy tourers?
Post by: Richard_2112 on June 05, 2015, 21:25:06 pm
Interesting topic. Look back at the Rio dvd and you get an idea that they really didn't understand where their biggest audiences were until it was (arguably) too late. IMHO I think they would have gone down a storm in Japan, and might even have ventured out there to see them.

My first experience of Rush was road crewing with 2112 in 2003 who played pretty much all of my favourite period of the band, and their shows were pretty much better than the real thing. Been on multiple shows on every tour since R30 though (trying to make up for the fact I was only 4 years old when they toured with Roll The Bones) But looking back on all the live albums I really wished I'd seen them on the Hold Your Fire tour, but alas I was only a couple of months old when that happened...
Title: Re: Are Rush Lazy tourers?
Post by: Nïckslïkk2112 on June 05, 2015, 22:47:18 pm
Quote from: Richard_2112 on June 05, 2015, 21:25:06 pm
But looking back on all the live albums I really wished I'd seen them on the Hold Your Fire tour, but alas I was only a couple of months old when that happened...

Gosh, that was such wishy-washy tour. Alas I was 25 years old when it happened. I'd been touched by cynicism and incipient curmudgeonliness by then. Thank heavens I'd seen them in the 70s...

I don't think Rush are that lazy tourers, it's just that Raymond Danniel$ likes to maximise his returns with respect to effort. Back in the 80s and into the 90s the best touring infrastructure was in North America and Yurp.
Title: Re: Are Rush Lazy tourers?
Post by: Matt2112 on June 05, 2015, 23:24:53 pm
Quote from: Richard_2112 on June 05, 2015, 21:25:06 pmBut looking back on all the live albums I really wished I'd seen them on the Hold Your Fire tour, but alas I was only a couple of months old when that happened...


I was 15.  Best. Tour. Evah!!!  8)
Title: Re: Are Rush Lazy tourers?
Post by: Nïckslïkk2112 on June 06, 2015, 00:49:39 am
Quote from: Matt2112 on June 05, 2015, 23:24:53 pm
I was 15.  Best. Tour. Evah!!!  8)

Being as you were 15 you are in no position to decide on that my boy.

Title: Re: Are Rush Lazy tourers?
Post by: NeilP on June 06, 2015, 10:06:44 am
^
+1

also, he'd missed the passionate, talented years in small intimate venues
Title: Re: Are Rush Lazy tourers?
Post by: Nïckslïkk2112 on June 06, 2015, 12:56:16 pm
Quote from: NeilP on June 06, 2015, 10:06:44 am
^
+1

also, he'd missed the passionate, talented years in small intimate venues

Unfortunately, so did I.

Which is why although I can say with confidence that tours pre HYF were better than the HYF tour, I cannot say which is the Best. Tour. Evah.
Title: Re: Are Rush Lazy tourers?
Post by: Ian Harris on June 06, 2015, 13:58:04 pm
My first was HYF, at age 19, and I saw better! RTB at Paris Le Zenith and Vapor Trails (I caved and splurged) were better gigs, CA had better setlists. They've improved at bringing in the deep cuts - for several tours, you were lucky to get Red Barchetta in among endless retreads of In The Mood and Closer to the Heart.
Title: Re: Are Rush Lazy tourers?
Post by: Ian Harris on June 06, 2015, 14:08:05 pm
And I don't think they're lazy. It's clear their attitudes differ from one another, and that health issues are taking their toll. If anyone has a good idea as to why the UK missed so many tours in the 80s and 90s, it would be good to know - perhaps it became harder to make money here, perhaps they wanted the time for other things. I think they were surprised by, rather than indifferent to, the enthusiasm in South America. I would love a UK tour now, although it won't happen, and would have gone to the US this time had I a bit more money in the bank. I'm delighted they're still going in their early 60s. If I'm as lazy as that in my 60s, I'll be pleased. 
Title: Re: Are Rush Lazy tourers?
Post by: Matt2112 on June 06, 2015, 15:57:50 pm
Quote from: Nïckslïkk2112 on June 06, 2015, 00:49:39 am
Being as you were 15 you are in no position to decide on that my boy.


That's moot when "that" is a FACT!! :P

Old Rush good, New Rush best.  8)
Title: Re: Are Rush Lazy tourers?
Post by: Nïckslïkk2112 on June 06, 2015, 16:33:01 pm
Quote from: Matt2112 on June 06, 2015, 15:57:50 pm
That's moot when "that" is a FACT!! :P

"That" is a determiner or pronoun. Now that is a FACT!

Quote]Old Rush good, New Rush best.  8)

far be it from me to comment on someone's mental health, but get some therapy boy!
Title: Re: Are Rush Lazy tourers?
Post by: Thailand Express on June 06, 2015, 17:29:50 pm
Just watched some clips of the Molson Ampitheatre gig from 1997, sheeeet as much as T4E was a dog of an album they were playing well on that tour. Happy memories of seeing that show a couple of times  8)

Quote from: Ian Harris on June 06, 2015, 14:08:05 pm
If anyone has a good idea as to why the UK missed so many tours in the 80s and 90s, it would be good to know - perhaps it became harder to make money here, perhaps they wanted the time for other things.


From what I've read certainly in the 80s once their show started to expand in size they were frustrated by the relatively poor quality of arena facilities compared with North America.  And on the RtB tour they were bummed by the lack of support they got from their record company (Atlantic?). IIRC the UK office didn't even know they were on the company books.
Title: Re: Are Rush Lazy tourers?
Post by: NeilP on June 06, 2015, 19:51:28 pm
1980 wasn't a bad setlist imho

2112 (minus Oracle)
Freewill
By-Tor and the Snow Dog (abbreviated)->
Xanadu
The Spirit of Radio
Natural Science
A Passage to Bangkok
The Trees
Cygnus X-1 (minus Part 2)
Hemispheres (minus Dionysus)
Closer To The Heart
Beneath, Between and Behind (abbreviated)
Jacob's Ladder
Working Man (reggae intro)
Finding My Way
Anthem
Bastille Day
In The Mood
Drum Solo
Encore: La Villa Strangiato (electric guitar intro)
Title: Re: Are Rush Lazy tourers?
Post by: NeilP on June 06, 2015, 19:54:48 pm
nor the year after ::)

2112: Overture/The Temples of Syrinx
Freewill
Limelight
Hemispheres: Prelude
Beneath, Between and Behind
Subdivisions (early version)
The Camera Eye
YYZ
Drum Solo
YYZ
Broon's Bane
The Trees
Xanadu
The Spirit of Radio
Red Barchetta
Closer To The Heart
Tom Sawyer
Vital Signs
Working Man
Hemispheres: Armageddon
By-Tor and the Snow Dog (abbreviated)->
In the End
In The Mood
2112: Grand Finale
Encore: La Villa Strangiato (classical guitar intro)
Title: Re: Are Rush Lazy tourers?
Post by: Red Star on June 06, 2015, 20:41:36 pm
Quote from: NeilP on June 06, 2015, 19:51:28 pm
1980 wasn't a bad setlist imho

2112 (minus Oracle)
Freewill
By-Tor and the Snow Dog (abbreviated)->
Xanadu
The Spirit of Radio
Natural Science
A Passage to Bangkok
The Trees
Cygnus X-1 (minus Part 2)
Hemispheres (minus Dionysus)
Closer To The Heart
Beneath, Between and Behind (abbreviated)
Jacob's Ladder
Working Man (reggae intro)
Finding My Way
Anthem
Bastille Day
In The Mood
Drum Solo
Encore: La Villa Strangiato (electric guitar intro)


This was my first ever Rush show - Permanent Waves Tour B'ham Odeon Friday June 30th 1980  8) fecking awesome!
Title: Re: Are Rush Lazy tourers?
Post by: DavidL on June 06, 2015, 21:42:35 pm
Quote from: Red Star on June 06, 2015, 20:41:36 pm
This was my first ever Rush show - Permanent Waves Tour B'ham Odeon Friday June 30th 1980  8) fecking awesome!
1st tour for me too - Hammy Odeon (5 nighter). Great set list ......apart from InThe Mood (of course).
Title: Re: Are Rush Lazy tourers?
Post by: Analog RH on June 06, 2015, 21:51:32 pm
My first Rush gig was Wembley on HYF and it remains my least favourite of the 30-ish times I've seen them. I recall Alex looking bored to tears for most of it.

First Toronto on t4e probably the best I've seen them.

Pains me not to have seen them in the 70s, but I take comfort from the fact I am only 43 now.  ;) ;D
Title: Re: Are Rush Lazy tourers?
Post by: pdw1 on June 06, 2015, 23:02:41 pm
Quote from: Ian Harris on June 06, 2015, 13:58:04 pm
My first was HYF, at age 19, and I saw better! RTB at Paris Le Zenith and Vapor Trails (I caved and splurged) were better gigs, CA had better setlists. They've improved at bringing in the deep cuts - for several tours, you were lucky to get Red Barchetta in among endless retreads of In The Mood and Closer to the Heart.

ditto here except I didnt cross the pond for the Vapor trail tour.
Wasn't Paris a brilliant gig.
Title: Re: Are Rush Lazy tourers?
Post by: Battlescar on June 06, 2015, 23:09:54 pm
Quote from: NeilP on June 06, 2015, 19:54:48 pm
nor the year after ::)

2112: Overture/The Temples of Syrinx
Freewill
Limelight
Hemispheres: Prelude
Beneath, Between and Behind
Subdivisions (early version)
The Camera Eye
YYZ
Drum Solo
YYZ
Broon's Bane
The Trees
Xanadu
The Spirit of Radio
Red Barchetta
Closer To The Heart
Tom Sawyer
Vital Signs
Working Man
Hemispheres: Armageddon
By-Tor and the Snow Dog (abbreviated)->
In the End
In The Mood
2112: Grand Finale
Encore: La Villa Strangiato (classical guitar intro)


My first at Bingley Hall.  Last time I stood at a Rush gig