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Turn The Page => Literature => Topic started by: Rebecca on June 20, 2008, 19:24:34 pm

Title: The experience of a book
Post by: Rebecca on June 20, 2008, 19:24:34 pm
I love books, I know I have too many because they are now getting packed into boxes until I buy more storage space. I have lots of paperbacks but I also have an awful lot of hardbacks but I never buy them new I get them secondhand from amazon or Abe books, or Oxfam or the lovely book shops in Otley.

Anyway, I love old books and the reason why is that the experience of the book, the cover, the binding, the paper quality, the way it smells, the font it's set in. They are all important parts to the experience of reading for me. Don't get me wrong though, I like a paperback but a serious book for me needs to be hardbacked and 'feel' right.

So yes I am a nut job, anyone else as crazy about books? Or even comics or anything else of reading material?
Title: Re: The experience of a book
Post by: rufus the dawg on July 25, 2008, 14:27:08 pm
have you seen this?

http://www.waterstones.com/waterstonesweb/navigate.do?pPageID=1576

could be the death of books, i would not buy it though
Title: Re: The experience of a book
Post by: Slim on August 05, 2008, 00:12:08 am
PDAs, laptops, desktop computers - all these are going to be the death of books, just as digital music downloaded then transferred and stored wherever you like will be the death of CDs and the like.

And quite rightly. Paper-based reading materials only ever came about because they were the effective method of making text available in their day. That's no longer true. The medium is not the message.
Title: Re: The experience of a book
Post by: Nïckslïkk2112 on August 05, 2008, 00:21:28 am
QuotePDAs, laptops, desktop computers - all these are going to be the death of books, just as digital music downloaded then transferred and stored wherever you like will be the death of CDs and the like.

And quite rightly. Paper-based reading materials only ever came about because they were the effective method of making text available in their day. That's no longer true. The medium is not the message.

What happens if you drop these things in the bath? A book will dry out, even if the pages do get a bit crinkly.

I'll stick to paper based books, vinyl records and Real Ales.

Where's the fun in a collection of downloads? It may take up more space but I love to rummage through the books in my "library" to choose one to read.
Title: Re: The experience of a book
Post by: andyhaines on August 05, 2008, 00:29:13 am
Totally agree with Bec and Nick. Especially the bit about real ales. ;)


I have some books well over a hundred years old...like houses, they gain character. :)
Title: Re: The experience of a book
Post by: dwtty on August 05, 2008, 10:38:46 am
i love books. Had to be ruthless with the latest house move, no. 13 in 22 years, I think. I literally gave carrier bags of paperbacks away.

The first job I ever had was as a librarian's assistant at the School of African and Oriental Studies in Thornhaugh Street. I loved it, 4 storey's of books. I worked in the archive department sometimes and would sit at the desk read Livingstones' handwritten diaries of his explorations in Africa or first hand accounts of the aftermath of Hiroshima and original 18th century Japanese art folio's.

My bruv has something like 6,000 books on his pc. But to me nothing beats the 'romance' of reading a book in print. It's the memories associated with, as Bec says the experience, like everytime i think of The Hobbit or re-read it I remember the first time i read it, under my desk at the back of my Welsh class.

That's the sort of thing no pc can replace.
Title: Re: The experience of a book
Post by: Topper on August 05, 2008, 10:59:58 am
While I appreciate the technology that allows you to have almost an infinite number of books at the palm of your hand I still love the actual "hardcopy" so to speak. One of my fave things was/is to go to a old bookstore and just pull random books out and read. Why not. :)
Title: Re: The experience of a book
Post by: Dixkot on August 05, 2008, 23:26:07 pm
Quote

The first job I ever had was as The Hobbit


::) ::) ;)


Title: Re: The experience of a book
Post by: Fishy on August 06, 2008, 09:28:43 am
always liked the idea in Fahrenheit 451 where books were banned that despite that they could be committed to memory and retold over and over...
Title: Re: The experience of a book
Post by: dwtty on August 06, 2008, 09:53:52 am
Quote

::) ::) ;)




is there any need for that..honestly....bloody coppers...... ::) ;)
Title: Re: The experience of a book
Post by: rufus the dawg on August 06, 2008, 13:44:40 pm
yes i can see the point of this palm top, there are so many rubbish books out there eg so called holiday books, this would be great for that. my wife often reads a book and then gives it to a charity shop, because it was rubbish
but if i were wanting to read a book say about battleships, that as lots of pictures and tecnical drawings in of the ships, with lots of fold out pages it would be no good.
Title: Re: The experience of a book
Post by: döm on August 06, 2008, 22:45:43 pm
Quoteyes i can see the point of this palm top, there are so many rubbish books out there eg so called holiday books, this would be great for that. my wife often reads a book and then gives it to a charity shop, because it was rubbish
.


But then how would Charity shops survive ?
Title: Re: The experience of a book
Post by: Captain Ron on August 08, 2008, 05:45:16 am
When I was but a nipper I ordered a really old book from my library called "The World of Spiders" by one W. H. Bristowe. Why is not important but suffice to say after a two year wait and signing a special duty of care document I was loaned the book from the London Central Library. I'll never forget getting my hands on it. Massive thing. Hand pencil drawn pictures and watercolours. Heavy leather bound. Yellowed pages from age. Probably worth a clanking fortune. Producing letters from David Attenborough and David Bellamy probably swung the loan for me. The library probably realised at that point I was wierd enough to not settle for the latest Hardy Boys. :)
Title: Re: The experience of a book
Post by: rufus the dawg on August 08, 2008, 10:57:35 am
Quote

But then how would Charity shops survive?


they could sell the second hand book on a disc? ;D
Title: Re: The experience of a book
Post by: Graham Hyde on September 02, 2008, 14:16:10 pm
QuotePDAs, laptops, desktop computers - all these are going to be the death of books, just as digital music downloaded then transferred and stored wherever you like will be the death of CDs and the like.

Bands can go out and perform live to make a living, what are authors going to do when 'book swapping' websites setup, if they haven't already ?

Title: Re: The experience of a book
Post by: Bassassin on September 04, 2008, 10:58:18 am
I don't think electronic books will ever dominate the market or replace print media entirely - for the same reason I don't think this will happen with music, movies, games or other media.

Apart from there being far too much money tied up in the manufacture & retail of "hard" product - the bottom line is that people like things - tangible solid objects they can hold & touch & look at. That's part of the essence of materialism.

Jon.
Title: Re: The experience of a book
Post by: Slim on September 12, 2008, 09:26:17 am
It's true that people enjoy owning a physical object. But it hasn't stopped downloads from replacing CD singles, and albums in many cases, has it? And it won't stop them replacing the paper book, ultimately.

Currently it's much less ergonomic to read a PDA or Internet tablet on the train than a paperback, but that will surely change eventually. There are so many obvious benefits to the latter approach: being able to back up your books and find them instantly, iPod style; being able to read them in exactly the typeface you want, having your entire 'bookcase' with you on holiday, and so on.

The copyright theft issue is certainly going to be a problem, but I don't think it will prevent digital books from dominating ultimately. Again, it hasn't stopped digital music.
Title: Re: The experience of a book
Post by: 34Poolboy on September 12, 2008, 10:54:01 am
I`m not entirely sure about this and I`m also not convinced by the "digital music has taken over so ultimately digital books will also" arguement.

The way we listen hasn`t really changed. Sound waves are sound waves wether reproduced by a Gramophone needle or the latest digital sampling technology. They hit the eardrum in the same way.
It has however always been a problem reading for extended periods of time from a computer screen no matter what dimming and font changing possibilitys there are. It is still easier to read from the printed page. For this reason many websites are very concise relying more on images than on text.

Digital books may well ultimately take over but the Digital books/digital music comparison relates purely to convenience.
Title: Re: The experience of a book
Post by: Slim on September 12, 2008, 13:39:37 pm
QuoteI`m not entirely sure about this and I`m also not convinced by the "digital music has taken over so ultimately digital books will also" argument.

The way we listen hasn`t really changed. Sound waves are sound waves whether reproduced by a Gramophone needle or the latest digital sampling technology. They hit the eardrum in the same way.
It has however always been a problem reading for extended periods of time from a computer screen no matter what dimming and font changing possibilities there are. It is still easier to read from the printed page. For this reason many websites are very concise relying more on images than on text.


Yes, that's true now, but it almost certainly won't be in the future - which is why I confined my remarks to the future tense.

Title: Re: The experience of a book
Post by: Thenop on September 12, 2008, 19:48:43 pm
I think Slim is right wrt the digital books. However, I think it'll be more mainstream publications (what we now buy as paperbacks) that will be popular in the end. As the technology develops or better: is being presented on the market (cause I am sure there's enough developed and not released yet that would make us all 'want one of those') the digital publications will grow in popularity.
Even though I like a morning paper, I can live without that as well. I just as easy pop onto the Internet and check the latest headlines. I'm a news junie anyway, so for me it's ideal.

The hardcase books will not cease to exist. There's simply a market for it. I do think that with the rise of the digital books the price will drop for the downloads and will rise for the prints.
Until then though, I keep on stocking the cupboards at home just as the attic and the ever growing bin of books to sell / give away...

Title: Re: The experience of a book
Post by: 34Poolboy on September 12, 2008, 20:30:59 pm
The technology is surely present now, and has been for years. At least as long as digital music. Where digital music has all but taken over from other forms, the digital book still seems to struggle.
When I look at the Frankfurt Book show, the amount of publishers and books on offer rises year after year. Digital media are also represented, yet the book still represents by far the favourite way of reading. What is on the increase is books on CD, whereas in the past it used to take a while for a book to be narrated onto CD, the release of book and CD is now almost simultaneous.
Although I still also believe the digital book will increase in popularity I predict it to be a much slower rise and to nowhere near the extent of digital music. the main reason for this is simple.

We can listen to music whilst doing almost anything, try riding a bike whilst reading a book!
Title: Re: The experience of a book
Post by: Slim on September 12, 2008, 23:33:06 pm
QuoteThe technology is surely present now, and has been for years. At least as long as digital music. Where digital music has all but taken over from other forms, the digital book still seems to struggle.


The technology for eBooks is present now, but it suffers from the limitation that material presented in a portable form isn't that easy to read, and from the fact that most people don't have a suitable portable 'viewer'. Both of those things will change.

QuoteWhen I look at the Frankfurt Book show, the amount of publishers and books on offer rises year after year. Digital media are also represented, yet the book still represents by far the favourite way of reading. What is on the increase is books on CD, whereas in the past it used to take a while for a book to be narrated onto CD, the release of book and CD is now almost simultaneous.

Although I still also believe the digital book will increase in popularity I predict it to be a much slower rise and to nowhere near the extent of digital music. the main reason for this is simple.

We can listen to music whilst doing almost anything, try riding a bike whilst reading a book!


To be frank I don't think this is a strong argument. I can't ride a bike while reading a paperback, either.

Digital music hasn't really enabled people to listen music while riding a bike; you could do that 25 years ago with a Walkman. Of course you can carry a lot more stuff round with you with an iPod, but the same is true with digital literature too.

Quite honestly the advantages in terms of immediacy and availability of distribution, portability and flexibility will prove irresistible, I'm sure.
Title: Re: The experience of a book
Post by: 34Poolboy on September 13, 2008, 00:36:34 am
Quote

The technology for eBooks is present now, but it suffers from the limitation that material presented in a portable form isn't that easy to read, and from the fact that most people don't have a suitable portable 'viewer'. Both of those things will change.


I just thought we`d be there by now Slim, or at least very close to getting there.

I know the technology is present, I`ve honestly NEVER seen anyone using it in a portable form.

You may well prove me wrong and it`s success will far exceed my imagination. I still love having books around me and can`t imagine living without them.
Title: Re: The experience of a book
Post by: Graham Hyde on September 24, 2008, 13:57:53 pm
Amazon.com are selling the KINDLE, this looks like a much more useful device and probably the way things will go here.
Title: Re: The experience of a book
Post by: Slim on September 24, 2008, 14:11:02 pm
Brilliant idea - an electronic book reader that you can use to buy your books. It looks clunky, but this sort of thing is in its infancy.
Title: Re: The experience of a book
Post by: Slim on September 24, 2008, 14:14:58 pm
A review of it here:

http://technology.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/tech_and_web/personal_tech/article3492060.ece

Title: Re: The experience of a book
Post by: Reg on September 28, 2008, 20:49:50 pm
Needless to say, Sony have an option, the e-Reader.  
Title: Re: The experience of a book
Post by: rufus the dawg on October 28, 2008, 19:21:27 pm
and what about those books that famous people read to us. surely in the future we will not need to read everything will be spoken to us.

NOT
Title: Re: The experience of a book
Post by: Dixkot on November 02, 2008, 00:14:17 am


The readers look fantastic.  A bit pricey though.
Title: Re: The experience of a book
Post by: Slim on June 14, 2009, 21:08:31 pm
I worked out last week that a 4GB SD card costing a few quid will hold about 4,000 paperbacks, or about 20,000 (losslessly) compressed. One good reason why the writing's on the wall (and not on the paper) for books.
Title: Re: The experience of a book
Post by: Redbecg on June 23, 2009, 20:42:30 pm
I use Project Gutenberg to download PDFs of most books, then use the Stanza app on the iphone to read. You can control the font size, orientation and spacing, so makes for a fairly decent read.

However, I still firmly sit in the physical form of a book, camp. It will take something extraordinary for me to abandon the book. And yes, I'm biased. ;)
Title: Re: The experience of a book
Post by: Reg on June 24, 2009, 18:17:33 pm
Quote from: Redbecg on June 23, 2009, 20:42:30 pm
I use Project Gutenberg to download PDFs of most books

I did that with a load of Edgar Rice Burroughs books.
Title: Re: The experience of a book
Post by: Slim on July 29, 2010, 21:12:58 pm
Quote from: Bassassin on September 04, 2008, 10:58:18 am
I don't think electronic books will ever dominate the market or replace print media entirely - for the same reason I don't think this will happen with music, movies, games or other media.

Apart from there being far too much money tied up in the manufacture & retail of "hard" product - the bottom line is that people like things - tangible solid objects they can hold & touch & look at. That's part of the essence of materialism.

Jon.


Well, I was reminded of our discussion here, in which I predicted the death of the paper book, on reading this BBC news item tonight:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-10786882

"In the last 30 days, Amazon has sold 180 Kindle books for every 100 hardcover books."

The old-fashioned book isn't dead yet, but it's coming.
Title: Re: The experience of a book
Post by: Nïckslïkk2112 on July 29, 2010, 21:54:21 pm
Quote from: Slim on July 29, 2010, 21:12:58 pm
Well, I was reminded of our discussion here, in which I predicted the death of the paper book, on reading this BBC news item tonight:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-10786882

"In the last 30 days, Amazon has sold 180 Kindle books for every 100 hardcover books."

The old-fashioned book isn't dead yet, but it's coming.

Not while I'm still living it's not! Old Books Good, New Technology Bad!
Anyhoo, that statistic quotes hardcover books, what about when you include soft cover books?
Title: Re: The experience of a book
Post by: Slim on July 30, 2010, 10:19:19 am
Yes, hard cover isn't the same as hard copy. All the same it's a telling statistic. The end of the hardware book is nigh.
Title: Re: The experience of a book
Post by: Avalon on August 30, 2010, 22:56:07 pm
Imagine if books came after games:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpet4TJi41A
Title: Re: The experience of a book
Post by: Nance on November 03, 2010, 21:56:54 pm
I have inherited a love of books from my mother and it is to do with the smell and feel and memories that certain books bring.  I love rubbing pages between my fingers to feel the quality of the paper. I have acquired books from all over, charity shops, car boots and even real book shops!
We have been in our current house about 13 years and I have still have boxes of books waiting to be unpacked.
I also keep my books by author or genre!!  Anyone else do that.

Real books will continue but perhaps as a unexpected find in a shop. Just like when we find a 'record shop' still sells vinyl !! yipee
Title: Re: The experience of a book
Post by: Captain Ron on November 15, 2010, 23:17:29 pm
What is needed for the ebook to dominate is an ereader with a similar ergonomic feel to an actual book. Reproducing the FEEL of a book is vital. Not a screen or a tablet. It would have a nice soft touch worn leatherback cover and say four to five pages which you physically turn like a real book. These are flexable, soft to the touch like paper, ideally the device is fully waterproof to cope with accidental submersion during bathtime reading or to allow cleaning with a soft damp cloth. The pages will bend but not tear and are actively updateable but with no power required to maintain the image, only to refresh it. Like ePaper(TM).

In my proposed ebook reader which I shall call the Hillsoft Infinibook(TM) the action of turning to page three from two causes a silent whisper mechanism to take page one off the spine and feed it through the back binding to the back of the book and then reconnect it to the spine. Going backwards to page two reverses the process. During this process the page that goes to the back or front is refreshed with the appropriate page data. In this way, you can instinctively read it like a real book ergonomically with no gadget knowledge required which in my opinion is the absolute key feature in the design.

In the inner spine between the pages i'd have a line of vertical touch sensitive buttons to control bringing up a menu on the current pages for browsing the current book chapter list and also for looking at the library of current books held in the onboard memory. Exact choice of these core buttons I am not sure on but probably "MENU", "NEXT" "PREV" and "OK" would be my choices with the on page highlight indicating clearly what "OK" will select. You could even do away with the elaborate page swap mechanism I describe above and just put more pages in the book with the "NEXT" button on the spine simply refreshing all the pages with the next set of pages in the book if all pages are flipped over to the left. You then just flip the pages back to the front and carry on reading. Personally as a gadget freak I like the idea of the infinitely turning book but maybe more epaper pages is a more cost effective solution. R&D dept will have to thrash that one out. :)

Bottom back edge of the leather spine would look worn and frayed from age but lifting it up would reveal waterproof springloaded covers for a USB2.0 connector and a power connector for synching with a desktop or laptop and downloading books just like an ipod does for digital music and for charging the onboard battery housed in the spine.

Get this puppy to market and even your granny will want one. :)
Title: Re: The experience of a book
Post by: Captain Ron on November 15, 2010, 23:21:47 pm
Magnification buttons in the spine would also be a boon to readers with less than perfect vision. I'd leave font control and the like in the menu display.
Title: Re: The experience of a book
Post by: Captain Ron on November 15, 2010, 23:23:34 pm
Actually, come to think of it, "Book 2" would be a truly great name for it. :)
Title: Re: The experience of a book
Post by: Slim on November 16, 2010, 11:52:54 am
Quote from: Captain Ron on November 15, 2010, 23:17:29 pmWhat is needed for the ebook to dominate is an ereader with a similar ergonomic feel to an actual book. Reproducing the FEEL of a book is vital. Not a screen or a tablet.


I don't agree at all there. I think that's a bit like saying that what the motor car needed to dominate was for it to feel like a horse and cart.

While you presently associate the feel of paper with the experience of reading a book, these things are not critical to the actual purpose of a book, which is all about the plot, the narrative, the talent of the writer and the rest of it.

Think how popular the online editions of the daily newspapers are, or the BBC News website. None of them allow the viewer to experience the rustle of paper on visiting a new page, or to get smudgy ink marks on his or her fingers.
Title: Re: The experience of a book
Post by: Reg on January 19, 2011, 14:52:47 pm
My primary desire for an electronic book reader would be for technical books for work.  Programming reference manuals and the like.  And whilst .pdfs etc., are handy on a laptop for reference, they are just not as easy to 'browse' through, or scan, looking for a particular reference item.  They would save a lot space though.

And of course, electronic publishing, like digital music publishing before it, gives the freedom for people to either publish themselves, and sell through word of mouth, with little outlay, or for a major publisher to release a book they wouldn't normally deal with - I'm particularly thinking of niche technical manuals, but this could apply to anything.