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Signals => General Chat - English => Topic started by: 34Poolboy on May 22, 2008, 17:37:47 pm

Title: Can someone please explain...
Post by: 34Poolboy on May 22, 2008, 17:37:47 pm
...what is happening to Britain?

This from the Blackpool Gazette website;

Title: Re: Can someone please explain...
Post by: Jonners on May 22, 2008, 17:43:06 pm
is it happening more, or is it just more widely reported and readily available to the public?

Title: Re: Can someone please explain...
Post by: Chris Quartly on May 22, 2008, 17:43:39 pm
Quote...what is happening to Britain?


I didn't realise this happened in every corner of Britain! Blackpool seems to be one of the worst offending areas these days, I certainly wouldn't want to live there, however, I think it's a bit unfair to tarnish the whole place.

In any country in the world there are things like this happening far too often, it's not just here.

Also, what Jonners said...
Title: Re: Can someone please explain...
Post by: Nïckslïkk2112 on May 22, 2008, 17:46:44 pm
QuoteDoes anyone still feel proud of being British?

Yes.

And if you were man enough to live here I'd feckin' well smash you in the face for being so dismissive of Britain
Title: Re: Can someone please explain...
Post by: Ron_Hill on May 22, 2008, 17:57:57 pm
Well. Over here in Norn Iron the street violence levels have plummetted. There's still some inadvisable places to be at certain times late at the weekend but by and large i'd say violent crime is dramatically down here. Having said that, street mellee's would probably seem fairly trivial to me after The Troubles.
Title: Re: Can someone please explain...
Post by: 34Poolboy on May 22, 2008, 18:09:49 pm
everythings hunky dory then. Must be me getting the wrong end of the stick as usual.

And silly me thought maybe people were just turning a blind (and blackened) eye to it.
Title: Re: Can someone please explain...
Post by: roadcrew on May 22, 2008, 18:54:54 pm
Isn't Blackpool one of the stag night main centres of Britain ?

No excuse but maybe the reason why places like Amsterdam have banned British stag nights ?
Title: Re: Can someone please explain...
Post by: cygnusxdave on May 22, 2008, 19:07:39 pm
This has been going on for years.

I went to Blackpool with a football team I was involved with in 1988. On the Friday night, we came out of a club to be confronted by about 30-40 local morons (there was about a dozen of us). We ended up getting lumps. One mate had a beer bottle broken over his head and had to have stitches, while another was kicked unconcious in a doorway and had to spend the entire weekend in hospital.

The taxi driver taking us back to the hotel told us it was a regular occurance. A guy from Manchester had been stabbed to death the previous weekend, but it was kept out of the national press because it would've damaged the tourism industry.
Title: Re: Can someone please explain...
Post by: sjsbrfc on May 22, 2008, 20:31:53 pm

Blackpool is a shithole.

It might be Lancashire's top seaside resort, but it just ain't my cup to tea
Title: Re: Can someone please explain...
Post by: BasspedalMan on May 22, 2008, 21:03:34 pm
You can walk down the street in ANY town in the UK and see mindless knobs acting like twats....... I'm embarrassed by the crass, violent yob culture that has erupted in recent years..... In my opinion we need to give the Police back their nuts and hand out meaningful penalties to those that are intent on injuring or maiming others...........
Title: Re: Can someone please explain...
Post by: zoony on May 22, 2008, 21:18:29 pm
QuoteYou can walk down the street in ANY town in the UK and see mindless knobs acting like twats....... I'm embarrassed by the crass, violent yob culture that has erupted in recent years..... In my opinion we need to give the Police back their nuts and hand out meaningful penalties to those that are intent on injuring or maiming others...........


The best post i've read on here so far today John.
Title: Re: Can someone please explain...
Post by: Fuzzface on May 22, 2008, 21:20:51 pm
QuoteYou can walk down the street in ANY town in the UK and see mindless knobs acting like twats....... I'm embarrassed by the crass, violent yob culture that has erupted in recent years..... In my opinion we need to give the Police back their nuts and hand out meaningful penalties to those that are intent on injuring or maiming others...........


Agree 100%

We have the same problems here, and it's a fecking annoyance! :P
Title: Re: Can someone please explain...
Post by: Slim on May 22, 2008, 22:40:25 pm
Sick of NuLabour yet, anyone?
Title: Re: Can someone please explain...
Post by: BasspedalMan on May 22, 2008, 22:59:13 pm
Don't get me started on that shower of c***s!!! Spend millions on nice cosy new prisons and upholding the HUMAN RIGHTS of those who seek to abuse our society....... Our Government stopped representing me in around July 1997............! How about sticking up for us lot? We pay your wages you tits!!!!

Gordon Brown has the fiscal knowledge and skills of the average Gamblers Anonymous member and has driven a huge steamy cock of utter stupidity up the jacksy of this country..... invented about 800,000 non-jobs in Central, Regional and Local Government to massage the jobless figures and get people 'off benefits' whilst actually making it nigh on impossible for anyone ON benefits to get a proper job because they simply cannot afford their bills without the state handouts!!!

If Gordon Brown had to stand up as Chairman of UK Plc at an annual meeting and deliver the Annual Report he would get lynched..... he's the biggest numpty ever to sit in No. 10. At least BLIAR had a personality of sorts and at least appeared somewhat inteligent!!!!

Don't even mention his selling TONS AND TONS of our GOLD at Lidl prices when it's now trading in Fortnum & Mason... Dour, slack-jawed, washed out, underqualified TWAT!!!

....................... sorry..... RANT OVER!!!
Title: Re: Can someone please explain...
Post by: 34Poolboy on May 22, 2008, 23:13:24 pm
QuoteSick of NuLabour yet, anyone?


Why did I know that was coming.

I`m sorry but don`t you realise how lame it is to blame the government when it suits for the actions of these individuals?
Title: Re: Can someone please explain...
Post by: Tom Garrett on May 22, 2008, 23:26:24 pm
Bloody Hell, i thought things were bad in parts over here,but that is shocking.
Title: Re: Can someone please explain...
Post by: cygnusxdave on May 22, 2008, 23:33:34 pm
QuoteSick of NuLabour yet, anyone?



FFS. Change the record!

Look at the date when I had my run-in with the knuckle-draggers. It was 1988. Your beloved Tories were still in power.
Title: Re: Can someone please explain...
Post by: BaldiePete on May 22, 2008, 23:44:25 pm
We are suffering the inevitable consequences of Labour's insistence on continuing the policies introduced over the previous 18 years by the Tories. The death of any sort of civic society and responsibility can be traced right back to the Thatcher era.
Title: Re: Can someone please explain...
Post by: andyhaines on May 22, 2008, 23:53:12 pm
QuoteWe are suffering the inevitable consequences of Labour's insistence on continuing the policies introduced over the previous 18 years by the Tories. The death of any sort of civic society and responsibility can be traced right back to the Thatcher era.

Stop reading and reporting on my mind, big man. ;)
Title: Re: Can someone please explain...
Post by: BaldiePete on May 23, 2008, 00:01:30 am
Quote
Stop reading and reporting on my mind, big man. ;)


Bloody hell, it's a fecking cesspit in there.  ;)

Title: Re: Can someone please explain...
Post by: Breesey on May 23, 2008, 13:54:53 pm
QuoteWe are suffering the inevitable consequences of Labour's insistence on continuing the policies introduced over the previous 18 years by the Tories. The death of any sort of civic society and responsibility can be traced right back to the Thatcher era.


Could you expand on that a little?
Title: Re: Can someone please explain...
Post by: pdw1 on May 23, 2008, 16:49:45 pm
QuoteWe are suffering the inevitable consequences of Labour's insistence on continuing the policies introduced over the previous 18 years by the Tories. The death of any sort of civic society and responsibility can be traced right back to the Thatcher era.


The Brits have been going out, drink far to much and getting into fights for 100 of years.  It is just  reported far more widely now.  Personnally I blame the Romans.

Patrick
Title: Re: Can someone please explain...
Post by: Nïckslïkk2112 on May 23, 2008, 17:19:20 pm
Quote

The Brits have been going out, drink far to much and getting into fights for 100 of years.
Title: Re: Can someone please explain...
Post by: 34Poolboy on May 23, 2008, 22:54:38 pm
We seem to have this need of putting all our problems, society`s problems in the governments hands, as if they can do anything about it. And when things get worse we blame the government.
Is this social conditioning?
What happened to basic human concern or love and respect for our fellow beings. Or am I just a stupid old hippy?

Don`t answer that ;-)
Title: Re: Can someone please explain...
Post by: JonL on May 23, 2008, 22:57:55 pm
Here we go again! ::)
Title: Re: Can someone please explain...
Post by: Breesey on May 24, 2008, 12:04:46 pm
QuoteWe seem to have this need of putting all our problems, society`s problems in the governments hands, as if they can do anything about it. And when things get worse we blame the government.
Is this social conditioning?
What happened to basic human concern or love and respect for our fellow beings. Or am I just a stupid old hippy?

Don`t answer that ;-)


I agree with you (yes, I am as shocked as you!!
Title: Re: Can someone please explain...
Post by: vladman on May 24, 2008, 20:13:38 pm
It is indeed a British problem.
Whenever I go abroad to anywhere in Europe I don't seem to see groups of whiny voiced toerags hanging about outside of shops harrasing innocent folk trying to go about their own business.
The problems for me involve bad parenting and bloody awful policing.
Or at least the lack of interest the police have in dealing with problems, partly knowing that the little bastards can laugh in their faces knowing the law can do nothing to really stop them.
As they grow out of teenage years so many are just hardened to doing wrong and generally trying to prove how "hard" they are they end up doing the stuff mentioned on this thread.
I would say that other countries don't seem to be as bad as ours when it comes to anti-social behaviour, and I am sure their kids are playing the same computer games/watching same movies/listening to similar music as here yet they don't seem to have as BIG a problem.
Too many parents have abdicated responsiblity and so has government.
Title: Re: Can someone please explain...
Post by: Tom Garrett on May 24, 2008, 20:31:31 pm
I think Vladman put it very well.
Title: Re: Can someone please explain...
Post by: zoony on May 24, 2008, 21:58:26 pm
There was hardly a hint of trouble over at the CL final between Chelsea and Man United fans, and i'm sure the main reason is that they'd have known what they would have got from the police had they stepped out of line. Until the police are given the same powers in this country, i can't see things improving.
Title: Re: Can someone please explain...
Post by: Matt2112 on May 24, 2008, 22:17:09 pm
QuoteI think Vladman put it very well.


I second that.
Title: Re: Can someone please explain...
Post by: Prince By-Tor on May 24, 2008, 22:20:27 pm
Quote

I second that.


I third it!! :)
Title: Re: Can someone please explain...
Post by: Prince By-Tor on May 24, 2008, 22:25:08 pm
QuoteNo I want an answer as to how Slim's tory party farce of a manifesto called the 'conversatives' would fix the social problems within the UK?

Because according to good old maggie, 'Society doesn't exist' and I don't care if it was taken out of context. It was meant to be a dig at the working classes.

No I don't think we should rely on the government to hold our hands or correct us in social etiquette. I do however, believe that booze should be a very expensive luxury and if you smack someone about a bit you should be thrown into a prison.*

*When I say prison by the way, I mean the types they have in Thailand where there are no human rights, because if you commit a crime in my opinion you lose all rights to belong to a civil society.


Not so much having a go at Slim here, as he's not the only conservative follower in the world, but I too would love to know how they are going to turn it around. :D

Bec, you're a girl after my own heart. What you say is exactly what I think. We are way to easy on criminals in this country. I can't pretend to know what to do to change it exactly, but I certainly think we should be a lot tougher like other countries.
Title: Re: Can someone please explain...
Post by: Prince By-Tor on May 24, 2008, 22:29:07 pm
QuoteThere was hardly a hint of trouble over at the CL final between Chelsea and Man United fans, and i'm sure the main reason is that they'd have known what they would have got from the police had they stepped out of line. Until the police are given the same powers in this country, i can't see things improving.


Rob, you are so right. If anyone from either teams fans had started anything, the Russian police/army would have finished it. No way would they have stood for any violence etc. ::) ;D

I think its fair to say that we need to be a bit like that - but not just with football hooligans! ;D
Title: Re: Can someone please explain...
Post by: Breesey on May 25, 2008, 09:23:34 am
QuoteIt is indeed a British problem.
Whenever I go abroad to anywhere in Europe I don't seem to see groups of whiny voiced toerags hanging about outside of shops harrasing innocent folk trying to go about their own business.
The problems for me involve bad parenting and bloody awful policing.
Or at least the lack of interest the police have in dealing with problems, partly knowing that the little bastards can laugh in their faces knowing the law can do nothing to really stop them.
As they grow out of teenage years so many are just hardened to doing wrong and generally trying to prove how "hard" they are they end up doing the stuff mentioned on this thread.
I would say that other countries don't seem to be as bad as ours when it comes to anti-social behaviour, and I am sure their kids are playing the same computer games/watching same movies/listening to similar music as here yet they don't seem to have as BIG a problem.
Too many parents have abdicated responsiblity and so has government.


Of course the grass is always greener...
The continent is certainly not the land of milk and honey you make it out to be. Germany has only this month had a serious riot problem in Hamburg. That country's street violence increased at a serious rate in the 90's.
As has been said, with more coverage and easier access to the coverage here now it is possible to hear about a lot more of this kind of thing. By the same token, when visiting another country you are there for a brief time and probably don't spend too much time on the news so don't hear about it.
As far as seeing 'groups of toerags outside shops' goes. I very rarely do and the one time that I have felt hassled in this sort of way was in Luxembourg.
Title: Re: Can someone please explain...
Post by: Slim on May 26, 2008, 22:17:54 pm
Quote

Why did I know that was coming.

I`m sorry but don`t you realise how lame it is to blame the government when it suits for the actions of these individuals?


So sorry, but do you really not have the first clue how feeble it is to pretend that the government is not responsible for the maintenance of law and order?

Does the sound bite "tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime" really leave you scratching your head in helpless confusion?
Title: Re: Can someone please explain...
Post by: Slim on May 26, 2008, 22:30:36 pm
Quote

Not so much having a go at Slim here, as he's not the only conservative follower in the world, but I too would love to know how they are going to turn it around. :D


Well, you're at least asking the right question. It is going to take an awful lot of turning around, after the last 11 years or so. I'm not actually certain that it can be fixed, at this stage.

What I can say without fear of credible contradiction though, is that the party least qualified to address this problem is the party that has presided over this disaster for the last decade. I wouldn't vote for NuLabour to attempt to maintain law & order in this country any more than I would invite Ian Brady to run a nursery.
Title: Re: Can someone please explain...
Post by: DaveC on May 26, 2008, 22:30:33 pm
Quote

So sorry, but do you really not have the first clue how feeble it is to pretend that the government is not responsible for the maintenance of law and order?



That is entirely different to holding any govt. responsible for the actions of individuals though.
Title: Re: Can someone please explain...
Post by: TerrBerr on May 26, 2008, 22:31:20 pm
Quote

So sorry, but do you really not have the first clue how feeble it is to pretend that the government is not responsible for the maintenance of law and order?

Does the sound bite "tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime" really leave you scratching your head in helpless confusion?



*yawn* Sorry, do you know how feeble it is to ignore someone else's valid point just so that you can harp on your own tired, worn-out diatribes against the current government? Let me refresh your memory:


Quote
FFS. Change the record!

Look at the date when I had my run-in with the knuckle-draggers. It was 1988. Your beloved Tories were still in power.


Address that adequately and you might gain some credibility here.

Title: Re: Can someone please explain...
Post by: sjsbrfc on May 26, 2008, 22:35:13 pm
So there was no street crime at all between 1979 and 1997?
Title: Re: Can someone please explain...
Post by: Slim on May 26, 2008, 22:41:34 pm
QuoteSo there was no street crime at all between 1979 and 1997?


So provided that the present government hasn't actually invented serious crime, everything must be alright!

My contention is that a degree of social corrosion has taken place which has exacerbated the causes of crime, and that the government has not done enough to address this as a symptom either.
Title: Re: Can someone please explain...
Post by: Dixkot on May 26, 2008, 22:41:34 pm
Quoteand bloody awful policing........................Or at least the lack of interest the police have in dealing with problems


Tommy, you obviously don't realise it, but you couldn't be further from the truth.




Title: Re: Can someone please explain...
Post by: döm on May 26, 2008, 22:42:16 pm
Quote

*When I say prison by the way, I mean the types they have in Thailand where there are no human rights, because if you commit a crime in my opinion you lose all rights to belong to a civil society.


I think prisons like that are a crime and have no place in a tolerant, decent society.

Surely society has a role in showing standards of behaviour and that includes even treating those seemingly  less deserving with some decency.

Otherwise society stoops to the level of the criminal and even makes their behaviour acceptable
Title: Re: Can someone please explain...
Post by: Dixkot on May 26, 2008, 22:50:12 pm


And I'm with Slim on this one politically.

Labour have always made the right noises in relation to Law & Order, but have never delivered.  Their treatment of the police service in particular recently has been a disgrace, leading to the federated ranks voting in favour of industrial action.  The right to strike vote was just narrowly beaten.  This is something that NO-ONE wants.  The cause.  The Labour Government.

Bring back Margaret Thatcher & William Whitelaw.

Title: Re: Can someone please explain...
Post by: 34Poolboy on May 26, 2008, 22:55:32 pm
Quote

So sorry, but do you really not have the first clue how feeble it is to pretend that the government is not responsible for the maintenance of law and order?

Does the sound bite "tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime" really leave you scratching your head in helpless confusion?


Of course I know they are responsible but I also know they are not solely responsible. It is also down to the individual to exercise restraint, can YOU understand that?

No it doesn`t leave me scratching my head, allow me a modicum of intelligence, I haven`t questioned yours!
Title: Re: Can someone please explain...
Post by: Slim on May 27, 2008, 12:43:55 pm
Quote
Of course I know they are responsible but I also know they are not solely responsible. It is also down to the individual to exercise restraint, can YOU understand that?


Of course it is, I agree.

So my position is that, while the individual is ultimately responsible for the crimes they commit, government is also responsible to a degree. I see a level of social corrosion in this country that is unprecedented which has contributed greatly to an overall lack of respect which expresses itself in violent crime at worst. While its origins lay in the foundation of the welfare state following the most recent World War in my view, the current government has exacerbated this.

The present government clearly accepted responsibility for more than the mere maintenance of law and order when it came to power promising to be "tough on the causes of crime". The current situation suggests that it was an unwise choice in this respect then, and I think that a different standard of political leadership than we have at present is required.

QuoteNo it doesn`t leave me scratching my head, allow me a modicum of intelligence, I haven`t questioned yours!


I apologise for that; I don't like my opinion to be described as 'lame' and tend to react badly to it.
Title: Re: Can someone please explain...
Post by: 34Poolboy on May 27, 2008, 14:59:26 pm
Quote
So my position is that, while the individual is ultimately responsible for the crimes they commit, government is also responsible to a degree. I see a level of social corrosion in this country that is unprecedented which has contributed greatly to an overall lack of respect which expresses itself in violent crime at worst. While its origins lay in the foundation of the welfare state following the most recent World War in my view, the current government has exacerbated this.


On that we certainly agree.

Quote
I apologise for that; I don't like my opinion to be described as 'lame' and tend to react badly to it.


I really didn`t consider you so sensitive for that to cause offence Slim, if  that is the case then I too apologise although it seems incongruous after some of the ridiculing and scorning you yourself are guilty of.
Title: Re: Can someone please explain...
Post by: döm on May 27, 2008, 15:12:50 pm
Quote

Bring back Margaret Thatcher & William Whitelaw.



Fancy a bit more O/T on the picket lines ?
Title: Re: Can someone please explain...
Post by: BaldiePete on May 27, 2008, 18:43:00 pm
Quote

I see a level of social corrosion in this country that is unprecedented which has contributed greatly to an overall lack of respect which expresses itself in violent crime at worst. While its origins lay in the foundation of the welfare state following the most recent World War.


That is a genuinely interesting take on it, to lay the blame for social corrosion on the post-war welfare state. Of course I don't see it that way, if anything the welfare state was a force to stop social corrosion by providing a means for better health, housing and education for all UK citizens.

What about the situation in the USA ? They have similar problems to us in terms of violence and social breakdown but have a much less welfare provision than we and other European countries have ?



Title: Re: Can someone please explain...
Post by: Ron_Hill on May 27, 2008, 19:05:33 pm
It's nothing that can't be fixed by a blanket press ban on government organised "disappearances". Sorting out who to disappear is tricky though but i'd start with anyone hooked on hard drugs funding their habit through crime.

I also think that burglars who invade anothers property should waive all rights and if you wish to mulch and bury them to grow your vegetables then you should be able to get free veg seeds from the government for civic services rendered. Ditto violent offenders.

Havn't made my mind up yet about people who walk on the cracks in the pavement deliberately but my policy committee is working on it. :)
Title: Re: Can someone please explain...
Post by: BaldiePete on May 27, 2008, 19:15:33 pm
Quote
I also think that burglars who invade anothers property should waive all rights and if you wish to mulch and bury them to grow your vegetables then you should be able to get free veg seeds from the government for civic services rendered. Ditto violent offenders.



But what if it is someone who has got lost and has come to knock on your door to ask for directions ? It does happen, some British guy got blown away in Texas when he did just that. IIRC the guy who killed him wasn't charged.
Title: Re: Can someone please explain...
Post by: The Old Dog on May 27, 2008, 19:25:32 pm
Quote

And I'm with Slim on this one politically.
shocker  as a serving police officer aren't you supposed to have no political view at all or has that gone by the board now .

Quote
Bring back Margaret Thatcher & William Whitelaw
And hang them  ;)
Title: Re: Can someone please explain...
Post by: Ron_Hill on May 27, 2008, 19:30:36 pm
That's very unfortunate but nothing is ever completely safe and it has to be an on balance thing. Once you start to worry about the minority incident possibilities then you strangle any progress towards common sense. If a fecker is in my house with intention to cause harm I want to know that the law is behind me when I push him down the stairs and breaks a leg and not worry if he is going to sue me for daring to put a stairway to the valuables. As it stands now i'd be far more likely to have a word with friends in such a scenario than call the police and personally that saddens me.
Title: Re: Can someone please explain...
Post by: Ron_Hill on May 27, 2008, 19:43:25 pm
A woman reversed into me in busy traffic once. I reported it to police. They did sod all of any effectiveness. The situation has since been resolved though. Found her car parked with an expired tax disc. :)
Title: Re: Can someone please explain...
Post by: pdw1 on May 28, 2008, 01:02:16 am
QuoteA woman reversed into me in busy traffic once. I reported it to police. They did sod all of any effectiveness. The situation has since been resolved though. Found her car parked with an expired tax disc. :)

I thought you were one of life's nice guys  :-?
Title: Re: Can someone please explain...
Post by: Ron_Hill on May 28, 2008, 13:55:08 pm
Quote
I thought you were one of life's nice guys  :-?


I am quite an easy going individual but when I feel agrieved or crossed and I am unable to get satisfaction or resolution through legitimate channels or reasonable dialogue then all bets are off. No-one on here has ever made me feel the need to let loose Mr. Evil Ron I have to say. Jump up and down like the guy in the Pink Panther cartoons yes but nothing requiring meticulous planning. :)
Title: Re: Can someone please explain...
Post by: pdw1 on May 29, 2008, 00:44:28 am
Quote

I am quite an easy going individual but when I feel agrieved or crossed and I am unable to get satisfaction or resolution through legitimate channels or reasonable dialogue then all bets are off. No-one on here has ever made me feel the need to let loose Mr. Evil Ron I have to say. Jump up and down like the guy in the Pink Panther cartoons yes but nothing requiring meticulous planning. :)


I'm scared now.  I think I'll run off to France for the weekend.

Title: Re: Can someone please explain...
Post by: 34Poolboy on July 04, 2008, 11:35:28 am
sorry to resurrect this old chesnut but;

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/london/7489039.stm

Cue political rhetoric.
Title: Re: Can someone please explain...
Post by: Andrew_Haldane on July 04, 2008, 20:23:37 pm
Quotesorry to resurrect this old chesnut but;

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/london/7489039.stm

Cue political rhetoric.


Its too easy to blame one or two overarching causes for the proliferation of these crimes. Fundamentally though the perpetrators do not respect human life, the Police, the judicial or penal systems. They seemingly have little or no fear either of being caught or indeed any prospective punishment that ensues following conviction. When that is the case its pretty evident that society (or at least part of it) is breaking down. Fundamentally (I think) its about power, fear and social status, if not in society then certainly amongst peer groups. As I said it is too reductive to pin it down to one or two main causes but a lot of these murders are either racially, tribal or gang related. People who aren't valued or who don't feel valued, or feel they have no stake or  future prospects within society are far more likely to find their sense of identity in sub groups. tragically it seems as if murdering your fellow man is seen as a rite of passage amongst a growing minority of these individuals and groups. There needs to be a massive rethink about sentencing. Life should mean life with absolutely no prospect of parole. Anyone found carrying a knife in public should be put away for 7 years, a gun 15 years. Zero tolerance might be a more effective way of dealing with weapons but it wont stop the violence itself.

Thats all for now