Author Topic: Brexit watch  (Read 24009 times)

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NeilP

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Re: Brexit watch
« Reply #1380 on: October 17, 2017, 23:24:52 PM »

NeilP

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DavidL

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Re: Brexit watch
« Reply #1382 on: October 17, 2017, 23:44:35 PM »
ha... I wonder?

https://www.facebook.com/pestonitv/posts/1932135997111136
Have to say, regardless of the content, it's far more comfortable to read Peston's words than have to watch his excruciatingly inept live transmissions on TV. He splutters and stalls like a car with contaminated fuel.

NeilP

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Re: Brexit watch
« Reply #1383 on: October 18, 2017, 12:59:43 PM »
Spanish train manufacturer Talgo has confirmed it is developing plans to open a factory in the UK with a "fully localised supply chain". The company says it will create "hundreds of highly-skilled jobs".


let's hope they win the contract then as it's still out for tender

DavidL

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Re: Brexit watch
« Reply #1384 on: October 18, 2017, 14:48:55 PM »

let's hope they win the contract then as it's still out for tender
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Nick

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Re: Brexit watch
« Reply #1385 on: October 18, 2017, 20:41:43 PM »
The “Passenger” summed it all up more eloquently than I.

This is the end for brexit. The whole project is fatally wounded. It is all over bar the shouting and while there will be a lot of that it will not change anything.

May has shown she cannot negotiate any of the important details of brexit through Brussels. Now she has shown she cannot negotiate any of the important details of brexit through Westminster either. That's it, game over.

The reason is the most recent expression of the democratic will of the British people, the GE of June this year, which supersedes the referendum of 2016 and renders it obsolete. Nothing strange about that. Democracy is an endless process and democratic decisions are democratically reversed all the time.

May went to the country to get a mandate to negotiate brexit on a firm and authoritative foundation. We, the people of Britain, refused to give her one. That is why she cannot make any progress in either Westminster or in Brussels; because of a democratic expression of our will, which is both more recent than the referendum of 2016 and more authoritative, Britain being a country ruled not by plebiscite but by parliament.

Consider; if May had achieved the mandate she wanted and the expected 100+ majority, she could say to Labour "Shut up, you are destroyed". She could say to the various Tory tribes and factions "shut up, because none of you can muster enough votes to overturn my government". She could say to Brussels "now you have to negotiate with me because I have a firm mandate to negotiate with you".

But as it is, she is unable to say any of those things, because we, the British people, refused to give her the mandate to say any of them. That being so, it is quite literally impossible for her to negotiate brexit. It is not that May and her team are especially inept, though they are that as well. It is that they are attempting the impossible. So isn't it time for her to respect the democratic will of the British people and stop trying to do something which is quite patently impossible?

Most ordinary sensible people would go along with it. They are sick to death of this mess. They don't have to love the EU; just prefer it to a complex, damaging and unpredictable process that has no clear outcome. If they were told A50 was being withdrawn and brexit was being put back in the box, they'd most likely breathe a sigh of relief and turn to the sports page.

EU bureaucrats would breathe a sigh of relief too. They'd find some way of making the revocation of A50 work under EU law. Sure, the UK has been an irritant in the EU but we could be a much bigger irritant sitting off the EU's western seaboard with a failed economy. Besides, no bureaucrat likes change. Status quo ante would be their preference. Time to recognise reality, stop trying to do the impossible and put brexit back in the box.
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Nïckslïkk2112

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Re: Brexit watch
« Reply #1386 on: October 18, 2017, 21:49:14 PM »
Aye he sounds like a complete passenger. Nobody gives a tuppence 'apenny about the passenger. It's the Driver what's important. Bring on Boris in his Bus :)
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DavidL

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Re: Brexit watch
« Reply #1387 on: October 19, 2017, 07:04:46 AM »
Bruce Dickinson was interviewed on Newsnight last night - he's a Leaver. Good man. :)


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NeilP

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Re: Brexit watch
« Reply #1388 on: October 20, 2017, 09:35:37 AM »

DavidL

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Re: Brexit watch
« Reply #1389 on: October 20, 2017, 11:46:49 AM »
Sober reading from HM Treasury


https://twitter.com/jolyonmaugham/status/921068161692205057
Let's remember how accurate HM Treasury forecasts have been in the past

Project Fear II - the sequel
« Last Edit: October 20, 2017, 13:43:57 PM by DavidL »

Slim

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Re: Brexit watch
« Reply #1390 on: October 20, 2017, 12:09:16 PM »
The “Passenger” summed it all up more eloquently than I.

This is the end for brexit. The whole project is fatally wounded. It is all over bar the shouting and while there will be a lot of that it will not change anything.

May has shown she cannot negotiate any of the important details of brexit through Brussels. Now she has shown she cannot negotiate any of the important details of brexit through Westminster either. That's it, game over.

The reason is the most recent expression of the democratic will of the British people, the GE of June this year, which supersedes the referendum of 2016 and renders it obsolete. Nothing strange about that. Democracy is an endless process and democratic decisions are democratically reversed all the time.

May went to the country to get a mandate to negotiate brexit on a firm and authoritative foundation. We, the people of Britain, refused to give her one. That is why she cannot make any progress in either Westminster or in Brussels; because of a democratic expression of our will, which is both more recent than the referendum of 2016 and more authoritative, Britain being a country ruled not by plebiscite but by parliament.

Consider; if May had achieved the mandate she wanted and the expected 100+ majority, she could say to Labour "Shut up, you are destroyed". She could say to the various Tory tribes and factions "shut up, because none of you can muster enough votes to overturn my government". She could say to Brussels "now you have to negotiate with me because I have a firm mandate to negotiate with you".

But as it is, she is unable to say any of those things, because we, the British people, refused to give her the mandate to say any of them. That being so, it is quite literally impossible for her to negotiate brexit. It is not that May and her team are especially inept, though they are that as well. It is that they are attempting the impossible. So isn't it time for her to respect the democratic will of the British people and stop trying to do something which is quite patently impossible?

Most ordinary sensible people would go along with it. They are sick to death of this mess. They don't have to love the EU; just prefer it to a complex, damaging and unpredictable process that has no clear outcome. If they were told A50 was being withdrawn and brexit was being put back in the box, they'd most likely breathe a sigh of relief and turn to the sports page.

EU bureaucrats would breathe a sigh of relief too. They'd find some way of making the revocation of A50 work under EU law. Sure, the UK has been an irritant in the EU but we could be a much bigger irritant sitting off the EU's western seaboard with a failed economy. Besides, no bureaucrat likes change. Status quo ante would be their preference. Time to recognise reality, stop trying to do the impossible and put brexit back in the box.



Slim

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Re: Brexit watch
« Reply #1391 on: October 20, 2017, 12:17:01 PM »

The only reason that the negotiations are going badly is that the EU filth are being deliberately painful and obstructive, expecting similar benefits (to them) that they might reasonably expect if we were staying in the EU - the ECJ having a say over British matters, their dirty little hands in our taxpayers' pockets and so on.

This is why it's so critically important that we are prepared to walk away with no deal. Because if we take the position that we can't do that, we'll get the worst of all deals, with no substantial benefits to us and their dirty little fingers unprised from our wallets, and continuing to meddle in our affairs.

If you don't agree, next time you're involved in a negotiation - buying a house, say - tell the seller that you'll definitely accept whatever deal ends up on the table after your negotiations have concluded, and see how you get on. You'll probably end up paying 150% of the asking price.

döm

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Re: Brexit watch
« Reply #1392 on: October 21, 2017, 09:58:47 AM »
It shows what a weak hand the UK has, where the EU has to go a little easy on May in public for fear of her losing power at home.


I do feel a bit of sympathy for May, having to deal with incredibly tough negotiations and having to deal with the likes of Johnson, Redwood and Rees Mog in her own party.
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DavidL

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Re: Brexit watch
« Reply #1393 on: October 21, 2017, 10:51:27 AM »
It shows what a weak hand the UK has, where the EU has to go a little easy on May in public for fear of her losing power at home.


If that were true it would indeed be a strange situation. May increased the Tories' share of the vote, whereas Merkel did the opposite. Funny old game.

döm

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Re: Brexit watch
« Reply #1394 on: October 21, 2017, 13:35:46 PM »
Fat lot of good the increased share did, having to be propped up by the DUP.

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