Author Topic: Grenfell Tower Fire....  (Read 2722 times)

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NeilP

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Re: Grenfell Tower Fire....
« Reply #15 on: June 16, 2017, 09:32:48 AM »
Sajid Javid has just told Jon Humphrys on R4 that in the Coroner at the Inquest into the Lakanal House fire deaths in 2009  didn't recommend a review of building regulations just guidance .... this is not the case. The coroner did recommend a review of the building regulations.... though little has changed in the interim.

Why say things like this in this modern age of digital media?

If interested, read it here


https://www.lambeth.gov.uk/sites/default/files/ec-letter-to-DCLG-pursuant-to-rule43-28March2013.pdf
« Last Edit: June 16, 2017, 13:41:05 PM by NeilP »

Bez

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Re: Grenfell Tower Fire....
« Reply #16 on: June 16, 2017, 10:01:52 AM »
Sajid Javid has just told Jon Humphys on R4 that in the Coroner at the Inquest into the Lakanal House fire deaths in 2009  didn't recommend a review of building regulations just guidance .... this is not the case. The coroner did recommend a review of the building regulations.... though little has changed in the interim.

Why say things like this in this modern age of digital media?

If interested, read it here


https://www.lambeth.gov.uk/sites/default/files/ec-letter-to-DCLG-pursuant-to-rule43-28March2013.pdf

Humphrys nearly went for Javid....it was a highly charged interview...
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DavidL

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Re: Grenfell Tower Fire....
« Reply #17 on: June 16, 2017, 10:57:03 AM »
Lily Allen is an angry young lady atm, justifiably so perhaps?

https://www.channel4.com/news/lily-allen-the-government-is-trying-to-micromanage-grief
Wondered how long it would take for her to start mouthing off about this tragedy.

Slim

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Re: Grenfell Tower Fire....
« Reply #18 on: June 16, 2017, 12:48:18 PM »
I didn't bother watching but there's a first time for everything, I admit. I doubt this was it though.

I find people trying to wage class warfare off the back of a tragedy like this quite distasteful.

After absorbing the horror and tragedy of what happened here, something that struck me was the fact that the huge majority of occupants in this tower block were immigrants and their families. Please note that the following point has nothing to do with the fact of a fire starting in a building or its consequences; it's an observation that holds true whatever the circumstances.

People complain about the number of homeless people in London and a lack of available housing, and laid bare on our TV screens these last two days is part of the problem - 24 storeys of social housing, overwhelmed by immigration.

NeilP

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Re: Grenfell Tower Fire....
« Reply #19 on: June 16, 2017, 13:43:31 PM »
whilst many other privately owned large properties lie empty  as 'overseas investments.... something isn't right methinks?

Slim

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Re: Grenfell Tower Fire....
« Reply #20 on: June 16, 2017, 14:13:04 PM »
Yes and it would seem to be the level of immigration in the last couple of decades - not merely placing pressure on social housing, but on public services like the NHS. Unfortunately merely broaching the subject invites accusations of xenophobia or racism, but it's a problem that merits a more serious discussion than that.

döm

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Re: Grenfell Tower Fire....
« Reply #21 on: June 16, 2017, 14:42:47 PM »
Yes and it would seem to be the level of immigration in the last couple of decades - not merely placing pressure on social housing, but on public services like the NHS. Unfortunately merely broaching the subject invites accusations of xenophobia or racism, but it's a problem that merits a more serious discussion than that.


But where would the NHS be without the migrants. And London come to that. It's thanks to immigration that London is such a vibrant and diverse World City.


And blaming immigration for homelessness is to absolve successive Governments of failing to build more housing.
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Slim

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Re: Grenfell Tower Fire....
« Reply #22 on: June 16, 2017, 16:48:55 PM »
But where would the NHS be without the migrants. And London come to that. It's thanks to immigration that London is such a vibrant and diverse World City.

Yes but clearly whlle some immigration is positive there is a level at which it is harmful, and I suggest that having huge quantities of social housing consumed by immigration is not a positive outcome. I'd be interested to know the degree to which the occupants of a typical block like this are contributing to our economy and society, compared to the pressure they place upon it.

Quote
And blaming immigration for homelessness is to absolve successive Governments of failing to build more housing.

But they might not need to, if not for excessive immigration.

Bisto

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Re: Grenfell Tower Fire....
« Reply #23 on: June 16, 2017, 20:06:12 PM »
The Chickens have been coming home to roost since the late 1940's after more than 400 years of Imperialist "British  Foreign Policy" resulted in the "Commonwealth"....what fantasticly innocuous and benign terms they are eh? At least the Vikings were totally up front about their intentions....Say what you like about them but you knew where you stood with a Viking!
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pdw1

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Re: Grenfell Tower Fire....
« Reply #24 on: June 16, 2017, 20:32:44 PM »
I find people trying to wage class warfare off the back of a tragedy like this quite distasteful.
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Nïckslïkk2112

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Re: Grenfell Tower Fire....
« Reply #25 on: June 16, 2017, 22:10:42 PM »
At least the Vikings were totally up front about their intentions....Say what you like about them but you knew where you stood with a Viking!
The Vikings also weren't that culturally distinct or linguistically from the communities of the realm of the Anglo-Saxons.

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Not sure what this has got to do with anything.
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NeilP

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Re: Grenfell Tower Fire....
« Reply #26 on: June 16, 2017, 23:09:23 PM »
Both the manufacturers of the cladding and the firm that applied it are saying that the regulations were satisfied. It'll take a long time before a conclusion is arrived at, and then who knows how accurate or realistic that will be.


I wouldn't expect them to say anything else... however, the onus for carrying out fire risk assessments these days lie with the landlord/owner of the property... i have a great deal of experience of this, one of the main considerations to be considered is the prevention/mitigation of fire spread - the cladding material certainly seems to have been a vector/conduit for the rapid acceleration of fire propagation from the footage I've seen... without jumping to any conclusions until the investigation is complete , I'd be surprised if the landlord wasn't liable here... they may have recieved poor H&S advice from a third party/consultancy in which case I hope they've got good P.I. insurance cover

DavidL

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Re: Grenfell Tower Fire....
« Reply #27 on: June 17, 2017, 00:54:26 AM »

I wouldn't expect them to say anything else... however, the onus for carrying out fire risk assessments these days lie with the landlord/owner of the property... i have a great deal of experience of this, one of the main considerations to be considered is the prevention/mitigation of fire spread - the cladding material certainly seems to have been a vector/conduit for the rapid acceleration of fire propagation from the footage I've seen... without jumping to any conclusions until the investigation is complete , I'd be surprised if the landlord wasn't liable here... they may have recieved poor H&S advice from a third party/consultancy in which case I hope they've got good P.I. insurance cover
I don't understand how the landlord/owner can be held responsible (re:cladding) if the material has been approved for such use and installed according to manufacturer's instructions. I wouldn't expect the owner/landlord to have a greater insight into the risk  of using this material than the manufacturer and/or the BBA.

NeilP

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Re: Grenfell Tower Fire....
« Reply #28 on: June 17, 2017, 08:14:11 AM »
I imagine the building regs here are open to interpretation David and that might be  their strategy for a legal defence. The Coroner at the Lakanal fire incident recommended an overview of the Regs (Part B) and that sprinkler systems be used, fitted retrospectively... nothing happened. This type of cladding is not allowed in the USA, classed as flammable/combustible in Germany. You've probably heard that the alternative  fire resisitant cladding is available at a further £2 per square metre - so the designers/project managers and client will have decided collectively which material to use here.  I've no doubt this material used at Grenfell Tower is suitable for other cladding uses but not for such high buildings... very sad tale.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2017, 09:29:21 AM by NeilP »

DavidL

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Re: Grenfell Tower Fire....
« Reply #29 on: June 17, 2017, 08:39:19 AM »
I imagine the building regs here are open to interpretation David and that might be  their strategy for a legal defence. The Coroner at the Lakanal fire incident recommended an overview of the Regs (Part B) and that sprinkler systems be used, fitted retrospectively... nothing happened. This type of cladding is not allowed in the USA, classed as flammable/combustible in Germany. You've probably heard that the alternative  fire resisitant cladding is available at a further £2 per square metre - so the designers/project managers and client will have decided collectively which material to use here.  I've no doubt this mater used at Grenfell Tower is suitable for other cladding uses but not for such high buildings... very sad tale.
In my view, building regs are not open to interpretation. If it is not suitable for high rise buildings the local authority should not have approved its use here an/or not signed the job off. Again, not the fault of the landlord/owner. It is the local authority planning department's responsibility to ensure planned building work complies with current building regulations, surely?
The real scandal here is that government did not ensure building regs were amended and did not enforce retro-fitting of sprinklers.