Author Topic: Election!  (Read 11979 times)

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Richard_2112

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Re: Election!
« Reply #600 on: July 03, 2017, 23:37:33 PM »
The public sector get paid better than the private sector. Better pensions provision too. Carry on Squeezing!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40480766
Or how's about bringing the private sector into line....? This isn't a race to the bottom
« Last Edit: July 04, 2017, 00:44:07 AM by Richard_2112 »
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Nïckslïkk2112

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Re: Election!
« Reply #601 on: July 04, 2017, 08:56:06 AM »
Or how's about bringing the private sector into line....? This isn't a race to the bottom
The private sector operates in the real world.
Not every company out there is a Sports Direct you know.

Before any pay rises beyond the current 1% pay cap are brought in it's time we had a proper period of austerity, because no matter how much the dungaree wearing, dreadlocked, unwashed, vegan, snuggle-tither, misspelt placrd waving loony left hordes moan about "austerity" as sure as eggs are eggs there hasn't been any.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2017, 09:09:13 AM by Nïckslïkk2112 »
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Slim

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Re: Election!
« Reply #602 on: July 05, 2017, 15:34:10 PM »
Some would argue that at least its moving forwards....

Labour have hardly covered themselves in glory since the election with a worrying trend towards the more militant wing of the party's views coming out. They're deluded if they believe that they could form a minority government, but at least they haven't done a deal with a billion pounds (so far) worth of taxpayers money with a bunch of loony regressives whio just happen to be religious nutters as well....

I don't mind the deal so much on the religious nutter front, because we haven't offered concessions on gay rights, abortion or even Sunday trading hours as far as I can tell.

The £1 BN found down the back of the sofa is unedifying, I must admit. However I do believe it's in the best national interest to compensate for the electorate's failure to accept the strength and stability that was offered to it. And I'm afraid that's the price.

In the end though, politicians represent their constituents. The entire Labour manifesto was an offer to form a government by buying favours with other people's cash. It's not that controversial.

Bisto

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Re: Election!
« Reply #603 on: July 05, 2017, 19:29:01 PM »
The difference being that it was public knowledge and voters could make their own minds up whether to vote for that or not. No member of the electorate voted for their own taxes to be used to bribe the DUP to bail out the Tory Government!
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Slim

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Re: Election!
« Reply #604 on: July 06, 2017, 11:00:12 AM »
Well to be fair I think the DUP voters did vote for that; their manifesto states that they would use any deal to improve public services and get the "best deal" for Northern Ireland. As it happens the parliamentary arithmetic means that they have a lot of influence this time around. Normally they don't have much influence. Their party has no chance of winning a Westminster election and their only way of exercising real power comes in a hung parliament, which as you know has only happened twice since the '70s.

And of course many or most of those who supported Labour at the election were voting predominantly for other people's taxes to be funneled in their direction, not their own. Including the taxes of future generations.

Bisto

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Re: Election!
« Reply #605 on: July 06, 2017, 13:31:27 PM »
Whataboutery.....every Government depends on the use of tax payers money to enact their policies.
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Slim

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Re: Election!
« Reply #606 on: July 07, 2017, 12:53:45 PM »
QED then.

Bisto

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Re: Election!
« Reply #607 on: July 07, 2017, 15:51:46 PM »
No, as I said before; the electorate did not have the opportunity to vote on £1bn of tax payers money being used to prop up the tory Government. Had they known that this was likely to happen I think its safe to suggest that it may have been enough to affect the outcome of the vote.
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Slim

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Re: Election!
« Reply #608 on: July 10, 2017, 15:20:58 PM »
I'm certain that the overwhelming majority of those who voted Conservative did so in the hope that that party would form a government. Their choice is better served by taxpayer's money being spent sustaining a Conservative minority government than the other possible outcome - which after all also involves power having been bought with cash provided by the taxpayers, so I have to reject your second point.

On your first point - I'm afraid you can't know what's likely to happen in a hung parliament. You can't know which party will be in the driving seat, which party they will be prepared to work with and vice versa and what they will be able to negotiate. Whatever the eventual set of polices that gets the nod will be, it's safe to say you won't have had an opportunity to vote for it, at least directly.The actual outcome is at least a predictable consequence of the parliamentary arithmetic.

Bisto

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Re: Election!
« Reply #609 on: July 10, 2017, 21:58:16 PM »
Not that they ever would have done but; had the Tories given the public the opportunity to go to the polls a second time (with the knowledge that they (the Tories) would spend £1bn of tax payers money bribing the, unashamedly blackmailing, DUP to prop them up in the event of a hung Parliament) I believe the outcome would have been different. Now THAT would have been giving real Democracy back to the Electorate; its not just a question of the money, its about their choice of Political bedfellows. Your 'certainty' is as moot as my point and will never be tested, however; I'm talking about the principle of doing a deal with Taxpayers money with a very unsavoury bunch of Regressive, Homophobic Faith heads that don't represent the electorate of England, Scotland or Wales...all of whom massively outweigh the electorate of the DUPs constituencies. To me that ISN'T Democracy in action, regardless of what the Law rules on the matter.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2017, 22:52:29 PM by Bisto »
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Slim

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Re: Election!
« Reply #610 on: July 18, 2017, 12:02:41 PM »
Again, I can't agree. Leaving aside what you (or indeed I) might think of the DUP, they do have a decisive proportion of votes and seats, and they've taken advantage of it just as the Lib Dems did in 2010, just as the SNP would, just as the Greens would, and so on. In each case it amounts to the exactly the same form of blackmail and in each case the junior partner or partners would seek to maximise the interests of their own electors.

I agree that the effect we see in a hung parliament gives undue and counter-democratic weight to the influence of minority parties, as it did in 2010. But this is not new, and no fault of the present government. Usually voters in Northern Ireland have little influence over the choice of government that presides over affairs in Westminster, so many there will see the DUP's new-found influence as a redressing of a balance.

Moving Target

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Re: Election!
« Reply #611 on: July 29, 2017, 08:49:46 AM »
Not that they ever would have done but; had the Tories given the public the opportunity to go to the polls a second time (with the knowledge that they (the Tories) would spend £1bn of tax payers money bribing the, unashamedly blackmailing, DUP to prop them up in the event of a hung Parliament) I believe the outcome would have been different. Now THAT would have been giving real Democracy back to the Electorate; its not just a question of the money, its about their choice of Political bedfellows. Your 'certainty' is as moot as my point and will never be tested, however; I'm talking about the principle of doing a deal with Taxpayers money with a very unsavoury bunch of Regressive, Homophobic Faith heads that don't represent the electorate of England, Scotland or Wales...all of whom massively outweigh the electorate of the DUPs constituencies. To me that ISN'T Democracy in action, regardless of what the Law rules on the matter.


But it does represent a fair chunk of the electorate of NI. Now the DUP have secured an extra £1.2B for all the people of NI, I think they have done themselves some good at the next election,